friz vs. Maine

BozoneCat · Post by **BozoneCat** » Tue Sep 07, 2004 10:44 am

Did any of you watch this game? What are your thoughts after seeing them play for the first time?

I stuck around in Missoula this weekend, and myself and WBTFG took in the circus. I think we both just about puked with all the maroon, and it was certainly too bad to see all that eye-candy wearing griz crap. If only they knew how much better they would look in blue and gold! We had to go sit with the Maine crowd, it was just too much to ask us to sit with the griz fans.

Overall, it was a pretty good game. Maine killed themselves with stupid penalties, although a couple were pretty questionable, not to mention the griz got away with a large handful of holding penalties. However, this didn't lose the game for Maine, they were outplayed.

I was impressed with the play of Segars, Heidelberger, Carpenter, and their defense. Maine seemed to run-block very well, but couldn't pass-block worth a darn. Carpenter made a very nice debut, much better than I expected. I am sure he will have a rough game or two this year, but he looked very solid - nothing like the reports of his play in fall camp. I still wouldn't want to have him kicking with the game on the line, though. As much as I can't stand Segars, he had a better game this week than all of last year combined. He made at least 3 really tough catches, and did a lot of the little things well. His only mistakes came as a punt returner, believe it or not.

I wasn't too impressed with Ochs, despite the numbers he put up. I stick by my impression that he is a very good pocket passer if he has time to set his feet and throw, but if you get just a little pressure on him, he folds like cheap origami. He also is very on/off with anything over 20 yards. If you want to beat the griz, you need to get constant pressure on Ochs. Maine did a good job taking away the run with Green - he is a good back, but if you can wrap him up before he gets a head of steam built up, he doesn't make much happen on his own. Hilliard was suspended for the beating his girlfriend incident, but I still think he is a much better back.

I still doubt that the griz D is as strong as it appeared. You have to figure how difficult it is for a team to travel across the country and play in an environment like that. Not too many teams are going to get a W. Overall, the griz certainly deserved to win this game, but I didn't see anything I was too worried about either.

jagur1 · Post by **jagur1** » Tue Sep 07, 2004 10:54 am

I agree to a point. I still think Griz WRs, RBs and DBs way better than the cats. Also, the DBs are younger and have years to play. No transfers, hip hip hooray!

CARDIAC_CATS · Post by **CARDIAC_CATS** » Tue Sep 07, 2004 11:08 am

jagur1 wrote:I agree to a point. I still think Griz WRs, RBs and DBs way better than the cats. Also, the DBs are younger and have years to play. No transfers, hip hip hooray!

I wasn't impressed at all with the Griz. Maine was totally 1 dimensional and had NO TEAM SPEED at all. I think the Grizzlies are going to find out this year how good Mcfarland and Spencer really were. Their line is a far cry from last years bunch. How Maine was ranked #11 is beyond me. Yeah, they play physical .. but you could tell they really wore themselves down at the end of the game. They reminded me of Portland State team 2-3 years back. Really big/physical DL/LB but were sucking wind in mid 3rd quarter and folded. I think the Griz have improved their team speed this year, but I still wouldn't trade any Bobcats player for player with the Grizzlies. Everyone was saying how CUT Justin Green was. Is it just me or did he look FAT and really slow (except late in the game when Maine defenders couldn't run because they had side aches). Just wait, you put a fast team that can get after the QB (for 4 quarters) and you are right .. Oches thinks run first and gets his feet all messed up and can't make accurate throws. I am pretty sure that is the scouting report on him. Hit him/move him around.

Also, I thought the Griz play calling was exactly like last year. Pretty much 3 plays. 1) Quick passes to outside 2) cute little shuffle pass draws up middle 3) run it down the gut. I don't know, but I was guessing almost every play they called that game ... I hope its that easy when Cats play them. Their plays seemed very predictable to me.

Thats just my 2 cents. The Griz got a win, yeah and should help the Big Sky RPI ... but not way did I think Maine deserved the #11 ranking at ALL.

CARDIAC_CATS · Post by **CARDIAC_CATS** » Tue Sep 07, 2004 11:17 am

jagur1 wrote:I agree to a point. I still think Griz WRs, RBs and DBs way better than the cats. Also, the DBs are younger and have years to play. No transfers, hip hip hooray!

Yeah, I'm glad they have years to play as they looked very bad tackling/covering

CARDIAC_CATS · Post by **CARDIAC_CATS** » Tue Sep 07, 2004 11:20 am

The Griz kicking game did surprise me though (so yes, I will give them some kudos). Very impressive first game for Carpenter.

BozoneCat · Post by **BozoneCat** » Tue Sep 07, 2004 11:55 am

How you can say that the friz DBs are way better than the Cats' is beyond me. Harris and Edwards would be playing on the scout team at MSU. I can see an argument made both ways about the WRs and RBs. The griz and Cats both have substantial depth at those positions, although the griz players have more proven experience... doesn't mean the Cats at those positions won't be good, though. We'll see.

Another thought: Man, those new griz uniforms are UGLY! The large "Montana" across the chest reeks of high school unis, the numbers are a horrible design (at least you can decipher the numbers this year, though), no personalized names on the back (whether they like to admit it or not, UM is not Notre Dame), and what bugged me most of all was the lack of the "Big Sky Conference" patch anywhere on the uniform. They also shouldn't have lost the griz paw on the sleeves, I always thought that was pretty cool and unique.

jagur1 · Post by **jagur1** » Tue Sep 07, 2004 12:02 pm

Agree on the unis. (I like no names,it's classy)

Griz WR, RB and CB all have shown they can play. Juco transfers and dropdowns still have to earn it. In a month or so everybody will know if you have anybody to carry the ball or catch it. No way cat's new DBs come close to last years back field.

CARDIAC_CATS · Post by **CARDIAC_CATS** » Tue Sep 07, 2004 1:06 pm

BozoneCat wrote:How you can say that the friz DBs are way better than the Cats' is beyond me. Harris and Edwards would be playing on the scout team at MSU. I can see an argument made both ways about the WRs and RBs. The griz and Cats both have substantial depth at those positions, although the griz players have more proven experience... doesn't mean the Cats at those positions won't be good, though. We'll see.

Another thought: Man, those new griz uniforms are UGLY! The large "Montana" across the chest reeks of high school unis, the numbers are a horrible design (at least you can decipher the numbers this year, though), no personalized names on the back (whether they like to admit it or not, UM is not Notre Dame), and what bugged me most of all was the lack of the "Big Sky Conference" patch anywhere on the uniform. They also shouldn't have lost the griz paw on the sleeves, I always thought that was pretty cool and unique.

I thought it was just me

I HATE THOSE NEW UNIFORMS .. but then again I thought I was biaed. I do like that no name TEAM type uniforms as well though. And yes, where was the Big Sky patch on their jersey? If they are suppossed to be the CLASS of the BIG SKY, then they better wear the patch so our conference can get recognition. Maybe they won't wear it anymore as they know that MSU is the Big Sky champion the past two years and think its like a Cub Scout wearing a merit badge they didn't earn

Bigtime75 · Post by **Bigtime75** » Wed Sep 08, 2004 1:30 am

To say that you wouldn't take a single Griz player over any of our guys is the most ridiculous thing I have heard from a Cat or Griz fan! To make a blanket statement like that makes us, as Cat fans, look like idiots. For instance, I would take our LB's over theirs any day of the week, but you can't for one second legitmately say you wouldn't take Willie Walden over any of our TE's, which isn't a knock on our guys at all, but that guy is a beast! Also, I'd be lying if i didn't say I wish we had a guy like Segars.

I was at the game as well guys, and before we get too excited about the griz lookin so sloppy this year, remember this was the first game of the year and the Griz did beat a ranked team. I think the rest of you must of been watching a different game than me because Ochs looked like a surgeon out there, the stats don't lie. Time after time, whether in the pocket or being flushed out, Ochs consistently made big throws and made very few mistakes all while having a sprained thumb. A friend of mine who is a scout for the Ravens seems to think Ochs is a legitimate pro-prospect and with a good/great season will get drafted.

The big question mark on this team is their O-line, which looks very vulnerable, hence the Passing O the last 3 qtrs.

CARDIAC_CATS · Post by **CARDIAC_CATS** » Wed Sep 08, 2004 8:17 am

Bigtime75 wrote:To say that you wouldn't take a single Griz player over any of our guys is the most ridiculous thing I have heard from a Cat or Griz fan! To make a blanket statement like that makes us, as Cat fans, look like idiots. For instance, I would take our LB's over theirs any day of the week, but you can't for one second legitmately say you wouldn't take Willie Walden over any of our TE's, which isn't a knock on our guys at all, but that guy is a beast! Also, I'd be lying if i didn't say I wish we had a guy like Segars.

I was at the game as well guys, and before we get too excited about the griz lookin so sloppy this year, remember this was the first game of the year and the Griz did beat a ranked team. I think the rest of you must of been watching a different game than me because Ochs looked like a surgeon out there, the stats don't lie. Time after time, whether in the pocket or being flushed out, Ochs consistently made big throws and made very few mistakes all while having a sprained thumb. A friend of mine who is a scout for the Ravens seems to think Ochs is a legitimate pro-prospect and with a good/great season will get drafted.

The big question mark on this team is their O-line, which looks very vulnerable, hence the Passing O the last 3 qtrs.

Walden is the only Griz I would currently take from Griz. Not Oches, Not Green (looked fat to me), not their OL, not their DL, not their secondary. One thing to keep in mind about the Griz game is that Maine did exactly what they had to do to beat the Griz. Put pressure on Oches and make him run. They did that all first half but wore down the 2nd half due to their DL/LB's were not in the best of shape. Physical, but could barely run into late 3rd quarter. So Oches carving them up in 2nd half was caused by 1) No Pressure DL tired 2) Green finally finding holes as DL was tired.

That is the game I saw on Saturday, I don't know about anyone else. All I know is the Bobcat front 7 this year will be relentless for all 4 quarters with their depth/speed. I look forward to the challenge.

I like our chances!

BozoneCat · Post by **BozoneCat** » Wed Sep 08, 2004 9:45 am

I differ from a lot of people in that I wouldn't take Walden. He is huge, gotta give him that, but he is soft. He'll catch a few passes simply because of his size and athleticism, but he won't throw a good block to save his life. I'll take Wolf and Daws any day of the week, they are big and tough and leaders in the locker room.

The players from the friz I would like are Saenz & Varona at DT (they don't have the speed our guys have, but they have a lot more size to plug up the middle - not saying I would trade our guys for them, but I would like them), and Skinner and Proctor at OL. I don't care if Segars returned every kick for a TD this year, I would never put a punk like that on our team.

CARDIAC_CATS · Post by **CARDIAC_CATS** » Wed Sep 08, 2004 9:55 am

BozoneCat wrote:I differ from a lot of people in that I wouldn't take Walden. He is huge, gotta give him that, but he is soft. He'll catch a few passes simply because of his size and athleticism, but he won't throw a good block to save his life. I'll take Wolf and Daws any day of the week, they are big and tough and leaders in the locker room.

The players from the friz I would like are Saenz & Varona at DT (they don't have the speed our guys have, but they have a lot more size to plug up the middle - not saying I would trade our guys for them, but I would like them), and Skinner and Proctor at OL. I don't care if Segars returned every kick for a TD this year, I would never put a punk like that on our team.

Good point on Wolf and leadership, after thinking about it some more ... I totally agree with you. Walden did look pretty soft/non chalon out there I thought. Wolf is a very tough worker/leader on the field.

So I'll go back to my original statement. I wouldn't trade any Bobcat for a Grizzly

JahGriz · Post by **JahGriz** » Wed Sep 08, 2004 10:53 am

Then we are in agreement cardiac, we wouldn't give you any players. We certainly wouldn't give you a KR guy who if kicked to will make teams look foolish. One in the same will be burning DB's all year.
And certainly we wouldn't give up the best PR guy in the Big Sky, who also will be making spectacular catches all year.
No sence giving up Talmage, Hancock, Rodamer, or Bagely either.
No need to give up the best 3 back combo in the Big Sky, of of which being arguably the best athlete on the entire team, Lex Hilliard.
While we are at it we'll keep Lance Spencer, our fros LB who all have as much or more speed than Cooper, and in a year or two will have his size.
We'll keep Van Cooper who has the strength of a an ox, and the speed of a gazel.
We'll keep all of our frosh DB's as well, even if we will only have them for 4 years.
Yep, the Griz and their talentless team will be luck to win 7 games this year. Maine wasn't any good, even though their coach said they had the most team speed he's ever seen on their team and 9 of 11 O starters back.
We'll just have to work with what we are given, and hope we can keep getting luck against teams that have far superior talent, like the cats.

CARDIAC_CATS · Post by **CARDIAC_CATS** » Wed Sep 08, 2004 11:11 am

JahGriz wrote:Then we are in agreement cardiac, we wouldn't give you any players. We certainly wouldn't give you a KR guy who if kicked to will make teams look foolish. One in the same will be burning DB's all year.
And certainly we wouldn't give up the best PR guy in the Big Sky, who also will be making spectacular catches all year.
No sence giving up Talmage, Hancock, Rodamer, or Bagely either.
No need to give up the best 3 back combo in the Big Sky, of of which being arguably the best athlete on the entire team, Lex Hilliard.
While we are at it we'll keep Lance Spencer, our fros LB who all have as much or more speed than Cooper, and in a year or two will have his size.
We'll keep Van Cooper who has the strength of a an ox, and the speed of a gazel.
We'll keep all of our frosh DB's as well, even if we will only have them for 4 years.
Yep, the Griz and their talentless team will be luck to win 7 games this year. Maine wasn't any good, even though their coach said they had the most team speed he's ever seen on their team and 9 of 11 O starters back.
We'll just have to work with what we are given, and hope we can keep getting luck against teams that have far superior talent, like the cats.

I guess we'll find out here when conference starts. If Maine had the most team speed he's had, then I feel bad for his other teams. You'll see team speed this year for the Bobcats I can guarantee that. And I wouldn't even mention your freshman LB's in the same sentence as Cooper .. not even close

We certainly wouldn't give you a KR guy who if kicked to will make teams look foolish ..... for some reason this statement hits home from last year to me? anyone?

CARDIAC_CATS · Post by **CARDIAC_CATS** » Wed Sep 08, 2004 11:20 am

JahGriz wrote:Then we are in agreement cardiac, we wouldn't give you any players. We certainly wouldn't give you a KR guy who if kicked to will make teams look foolish. One in the same will be burning DB's all year.
And certainly we wouldn't give up the best PR guy in the Big Sky, who also will be making spectacular catches all year.
No sence giving up Talmage, Hancock, Rodamer, or Bagely either.
No need to give up the best 3 back combo in the Big Sky, of of which being arguably the best athlete on the entire team, Lex Hilliard.
While we are at it we'll keep Lance Spencer, our fros LB who all have as much or more speed than Cooper, and in a year or two will have his size.
We'll keep Van Cooper who has the strength of a an ox, and the speed of a gazel.
We'll keep all of our frosh DB's as well, even if we will only have them for 4 years.
Yep, the Griz and their talentless team will be luck to win 7 games this year. Maine wasn't any good, even though their coach said they had the most team speed he's ever seen on their team and 9 of 11 O starters back.
We'll just have to work with what we are given, and hope we can keep getting luck against teams that have far superior talent, like the cats.

JahGriz .. not saying Griz are BAD .. they will have a good competitive team this year. I'm just saying I like the MSU players they currently have for their system. I think this team could be very good this year if our secondary stays healthy and comes around. I just wasn't impressed with Maine I guess. Maybe it was the GRIZ DOMINANCE over them .. who knows .. I guess we will see when we get into conference. I think Maine's #11 ranking was only put up there because they are an East Coast team. That running back is good/physical .. but was NOT a threat against fast teams like Griz/Cats to take it all the way on a 50 yard run .. didn't have the speed I thought.

JahGriz · Post by **JahGriz** » Wed Sep 08, 2004 11:35 am

I'm pretty impressed with the cat team, at least on paper. And I may take a corner and cooper from ya, but I certainly wouldn't trade any of our frosh lb's or corners for them. They all have bright futures. The Griz D will be back to their old menacing selves in the years to come, if not by the end of this season.
And opinions may very on Maine. I thought they were tough, had two very good WR, great RB, good QB, good O-line. I really am surprised the Griz D played so well.
Maine's D has two good safetys, and their corners are pretty good. They did have some stupid penalties which hurt them, no doubt. But the Griz had their share of mistakes as well.
Maine's schedule may be what kills them in their conference, but who knows. I'm looking for them to beat Northern Colorado. Both teams coming off tough losses, could be interesting.

Cat Pride · Post by **Cat Pride** » Wed Sep 08, 2004 11:41 am

Starter for starter, I wouldnt trade a single Bobcat for a Griz - with exception for Hilliard and Heidelberger.

Its their depth is what I would love to have.

jagur1 · Post by **jagur1** » Wed Sep 08, 2004 11:59 am

JahGriz: N Col didn't lose. They should have but NDSU missed a FG at the End of the game. Saw it laying in my motel room after the game just enjoying the heck out of a great football saturday.

CARDIAC_CATS · Post by **CARDIAC_CATS** » Wed Sep 08, 2004 12:15 pm

jagur1 wrote:JahGriz: N Col didn't lose. They should have but NDSU missed a FG at the End of the game. Saw it laying in my motel room after the game just enjoying the heck out of a great football saturday.

Yeah, that NDSU/N COL game was a good game as well as Colorado/CSU (although CSU should have put it into OT ... bonehead play). CSU is gonna be pretty good this year I think. That new QB has an arm that is for sure (way better arm than Van Pelt had, but not as slippery as Van Pelt). The MSU secondary better be in full swing by then or that game could be ugly.

JahGriz · Post by **JahGriz** » Wed Sep 08, 2004 12:21 pm

So when the cats loose to the Griz this year it will be because we have better coaches? And if we loose it will be because we don't have as much talent?

Just kidding. I'm sure if I were a cat fan I'd see the players differently for both teams, just by vurtue of paying more attention to the team I'm a fan of.