Griz vs. Carroll

grizband · Post by **grizband** » Tue Nov 15, 2005 5:35 pm

No kidding, there is rumor that this game might be in the works for next season. Most Griz fans seem to think its a bad idea. What do Cat fans say? Would you support a Bobcat-Saints matchup in football?

El_Gato · Post by **El_Gato** » Tue Nov 15, 2005 5:39 pm

Great idea/opportunity for Carroll (although if they truly are pushing to play 1 of us, they should have done so while Emmert was there);

TERRIBLE idea for Cats or Griz.

Cat Pride · Post by **Cat Pride** » Tue Nov 15, 2005 5:42 pm

Bad idea for MSU or UM, funny how this rumor is popping up now that Emmert and crew will be gone next year. Getting MSU or UM to play Carroll either in '04 or '05 would have been impossible.

Didnt ISU back out of a deal with Carroll last year?

Carroll is good, but not that good to play with the likes of MSU/UM. Still, they might be able to put a scare into us for a bit. No win situation for Cats or Griz.

suckitgriz · Post by **suckitgriz** » Tue Nov 15, 2005 5:43 pm

Agreed, nothing good can come of this for the Cats or the Griz...except make all those annoying Saint fans shut their pieholes.

NeMTcat · Post by **NeMTcat** » Tue Nov 15, 2005 5:43 pm

Montana State should watch out to get its name in on that opportunity. They don't want to make a habit of getting into bad situations with Carroll...the women's basketball game could be just the start of bad things.

grizband · Post by **grizband** » Tue Nov 15, 2005 5:44 pm

The rumor originally came from the Helena IR. My thoughts are this is a no win for Cats/Griz, and no lose for the Saints. Saints will probably make money on the game, and there is a slim chance of pulling off an upset (I won't rule anything out after NDSU in 2003). The game could hurt playoff chances for the I-AA team, as the game woudn't count towards 7 total wins.

BelgradeBobcat · Post by **BelgradeBobcat** » Tue Nov 15, 2005 5:55 pm

Any time you play a down game it's a no win situation, but playing Carroll or Tech or Western makes a lot of financial sense.

Would a game with Carroll sell out Bobcat stadium? I'm sure it would. Would Western New Mexico or New Mexico Highlands or Fort Lewis? Maybe not.

Is Carroll better than those above "D-2" schools? Undoubtedly.

Would Carroll need much of a guarantee to play us? Probably not-I bet we could get them in here for 20K or less, while a low D-2 would probably need 50K (that's what NDSU paid Arkansas-Montecello for example).

I think it would be fun, might be an olive branch to another Montana City, and a Bobcat win-I won't even entertain the possibility that any Frontier school would beat us-yeah, yeah spare me the Humboldt State and Central Washington smack.

suckitgriz · Post by **suckitgriz** » Tue Nov 15, 2005 5:58 pm

well, it does nothing for the Cats/ or the jizz, but I am getting truely pissed off at the Helena people saying they could beat either. with 245lbs. lineman, i would like to see them try. It boils down to size, speed and depth- year-in/year-out, they do not match up. Sure they have some players who could play at that level, but overall- they are a glorified high school team.

Cat Pride · Post by **Cat Pride** » Tue Nov 15, 2005 6:17 pm

suckitgriz wrote:well, it does nothing for the Cats/ or the jizz, but I am getting truely pissed off at the Helena people saying they could beat either. with 245lbs. lineman, i would like to see them try. It boils down to size, speed and depth- year-in/year-out, they do not match up. Sure they have some players who could play at that level, but overall- they are a glorified high school team.

They are a helluva lot better than a glorified high school team, but no way close to I-AA level either. MSU is much closer to Okie State than Carroll is to MSU.

Brick · Post by **Brick** » Tue Nov 15, 2005 6:17 pm

NO real football person would believe the Saints could even come close to The Cats or Griz! That's just an ignorant statement! Speed,depth, Size and oh ya SPEED!! My hats of to the Saints what a great run and I hope they do it again this year but plain and simple two different levels of play here. Ya I'm sure a few Saint kids could play Big Sky but there is a reason they get all the Cat/Griz drop downs.... Sorry Saints don't' beg for a game you and I both know wouldn't do anyone of us any good.

SeeHarg · Post by **SeeHarg** » Tue Nov 15, 2005 6:30 pm

What a joke. Even if it was this year with Emmert there, both the Cats and the Griz would win by 40 or 50.

The Saints' linebackers and secondary couldn't bring down Lulay (if they could catch him). The defensive line for the Saints would struggle to tackle Lex Hilliard, and he'd injure the secondary.

I'd love to see their O-line try to stop Saucedo or Saenz.

Saints are great in NAIA, and kudos. But c'mon.

El_Gato · Post by **El_Gato** » Tue Nov 15, 2005 6:31 pm

Having followed AA Montana football closely for 10+ years now & witnessing the various athletes that end up playing for Carroll, MSU, and UM, count me as one who KNOWS that the Cats & Griz would annihilate the Saints. Flathead has had a bunch of kids play Frontier football that couldn't carry the water at MSU or UM.

Look at it this way: How many AA basketball teams play A teams? Quite often these days, right? And how often does the A team win? More often than most would expect.

HOWEVER, when was the last time you saw an A FOOTBALL team step up and take on a AA team? Since I've moved to Kalispell, I've not seen a single instance of that.

IMO, the Cats or Griz vs the Saints would be like a AA team playing a B team.

SteelheadBum · Post by **SteelheadBum** » Tue Nov 15, 2005 7:26 pm

First off, Hats off to Carroll College for doing something the CATS & griz have never done or will probably ever do PERIOD. The Saints are a Kick Arse Take No Prisoners Team. Those guys rock!!! Also, Emmert will end up in the NFL. Count on it.

The above being said, the Saints are very good but not D1AA good. Next year is a return to reality for them. The Seniors on Carroll's team are a once in every 20-25 years group. They are special. Kind of like Jr. Adams, Adam Cordero, Kane Ione, et. al. The 1984 NC team is in the same catagory. Anyway, the Saints could probably hang with the CATS & griz for one half today, but the third & fourth quarters would be the difference especially if MSU/um got their running games going. The big beef & overall team speed would take its toll on Carroll.

Good luck to Carroll and Tech in their playoff games. Good to see the Frontier Conference kicking some arse in NAIA football. GO SAINTS & DIGGERS!!!!!!!!!!!!! Oh yeah, GO CATS!!!!

BelgradeBobcat · Post by **BelgradeBobcat** » Tue Nov 15, 2005 8:26 pm

Well we saw Sac State blow out Asuza Pacific a couple of weeks ago. AP isn't quite as good as Carroll, but they are an NAIA power that usually goes deep into the playoffs. I think AP plays Tech in the playoffs this year.

We saw Idaho State beat up Western early in the season and the Bengals have blown out the Bulldogs quite a few times over the years. Also, Weber has played Montana Tech and Western in years past and won easily.

So yeah, a Cat or griz game against Carroll would probably be a blow out-so what? It would be a good game to play a lot of the younger guys and get them some valuable experience.

It's funny to me that neither um or MSU have any problems playing Frontier schools in men's basketball. In fact MSU plays Carroll on December 6. Sometimes these games have been uncomfortably close and it's probably only a matter of time before either the Cats or griz get knocked off by a Frontier school-as our rebuilding women's team just did. I agree the it is far less likely that a football upset would happen-so why not play them and keep the guarantee money in the state.

I think it would be a fun novelty-probably not something we would want to do very often, but what the heck-why not?

GFGriz · Post by **GFGriz** » Tue Nov 15, 2005 10:28 pm

While I agree a match-up between Carroll and the Griz (which is the rumor) would be pretty much pre-ordained, I suspect it would be closer than anyone thinks, and the Saints would come out looking good. A game with State, albeit without Lulay, would be even closer. The last common pre-Lulay opponent between Carroll and State said the Saints played them much closer than State. The Saints are the best-coached and best-disciplined team around Montana. I doubt Mike Van Diest would allow his team on the field without making sure they would make a good showing of it. Bottom line: Both Montana and State should avoid the Helena team.

BozoneCat · Post by **BozoneCat** » Tue Nov 15, 2005 10:35 pm

I say bring 'em on, and run up the score. I like Carroll, and I think they have a great thing going over in Helena, but it is beyond absurd to think they could even compete against Montana State or the friz. Beat them 70-3, and maybe then all the Saints fans will shut up about how they would give us a game. We get better competition in our scrimmages.

MaZooLaGriz · Post by **MaZooLaGriz** » Tue Nov 15, 2005 10:38 pm

Cat Pride wrote:No win situation for Cats or Griz.

Add "or Saints", and you've got my full agreement.

AZCAT21 · Post by **AZCAT21** » Tue Nov 15, 2005 10:51 pm

Please Emmert will not be going to the NFL, he is about 6'0" 170lbs....Not saying he is a bad player but look at Lulay on TV and then compare him to Emmert. This size difference is really noticeable. Arm strength is another huge huge difference, Emmert doesn't throw many deep passes. Carroll's team is so much better than every other team that all he has to do is dump off a 5 yard pass and watch every player miss on the tackle. And please if anyone thinks that Carroll would keep the game close is straight up smoking some wacky tobacky!! I think the reference to a "Glorified High School" team is meant by the fact that the lineman for Carroll are all 5'10" and weigh 265. All one has to do is go to a Cat/Griz game and then go to a Carroll team and notice the size difference, then ask yourselves if they would stand a chance.

This post is by no means trying to down play Emmert or Carroll because he is spectacular at his position and anyone would love to have his stats for a career, but lets not get foolish on this board.

GFGriz · Post by **GFGriz** » Tue Nov 15, 2005 10:52 pm

MaZooLaGriz wrote:
Cat Pride wrote:No win situation for Cats or Griz.
Add "or Saints", and you've got my full agreement.

No lose situation for the Saints. Even if they don't win, they can say winning was not expected. They get great team experience, respect in NAIA for running with the big dogs, and a nice check. And not intending this to be smack (really), State without Lulay just isn't that much of a threat for humiliating Carroll. Again, remember that before Lulay, Central Washington said the Saints played them better than State did. Carroll brings the kind of discipline to the game that State only dreams of, and only makes up with speed and size. Any way you cut it, the Saints come out the good guys. And any way the Griz or State might come out of it, they look like schmucks.

MaZooLaGriz · Post by **MaZooLaGriz** » Tue Nov 15, 2005 10:58 pm

GFGriz wrote:No lose situation for the Saints.

Saints do too well and their incredible achievements now seem just obvious.

Saints do poorly and all they've done appears Little League-ish.