Ochs did get to play

BobcatLionFan · Post by **BobcatLionFan** » Mon Aug 22, 2005 9:44 am

For those interested. Ochs got into the Charger game this weekend. Last quarter (5 minutes left in a one sided game), Lemon (3rd string QB) was driving the team, Ochs was put in, handed the ball off twice, then two incomplete passes (not really close). Next series Lemon was put back in and Ochs didn't get on the field again.

It appeared the coachs just wanted him to see the field and say he played to his grand kids.

Don't see him staying with the Chargers unless on the practice squad (as Lemon did last year with Brees, Rivers, and Flutie ahead of him).

FYI

El_Gato · Post by **El_Gato** » Mon Aug 22, 2005 10:09 am

On egriz, they said he only threw 1 pass, incomplete.

And then, of course, some egrizzers blast the SD coaching staff for not "giving him a fair chance" and that Marty doesn't want their high draft picks to be embarassed by an undrafted, small-college guy.

Some of them will never "get it", I suppose...

Nick · Post by **Nick** » Mon Aug 22, 2005 3:03 pm

El_Gato wrote:On egriz, they said he only threw 1 pass, incomplete.

And then, of course, some egrizzers blast the SD coaching staff for not "giving him a fair chance" and that Marty doesn't want their high draft picks to be embarassed by an undrafted, small-college guy.

Some of them will never "get it", I suppose...

Get what......? Are you an NFL coach?

CelticCat · Post by **CelticCat** » Mon Aug 22, 2005 3:11 pm

Everyone on egriz thinks they are.

Hell's Bells · Post by **Hell's Bells** » Mon Aug 22, 2005 3:26 pm

hey if they cant put together that oachs was a nfl rookie free agent copeting against people who either were on the roster last year or were drafted in the first round all we can do is sit back and laugh

btw i think sd kept 4 qbs last year

El_Gato · Post by **El_Gato** » Mon Aug 22, 2005 3:45 pm

No, Nick, I'm not an NFL coach. But the point is it doesn't TAKE an NFL coach to see that guys like DD & Ochs simply aren't capable of playing QB in the NFL.

Personally, I'm AMAZED by the # of you griz fans who are completely unable to honestly analyze anything; you're so blinded by the success of the Griz that you think every star on your team should be in the NFL and when they're not, you have to start blaming people and making up excuses.

Go check out the thread here on Roger Cooper's attempt to make it in the NFL. There's another thread where Travis Lulay's NFL potential is discussed, with most people agreeing he'll be a long-shot at best. The point is, I feel Bobcat fans tend to be a little more level-headed in analyzing these things while too many griz fans think every former Griz is a future NFL Hall of Famer.

Just another reason why so many folks look at you griz fans as arrogant, spoiled, and blind to reality...

grizbeer · Post by **grizbeer** » Mon Aug 22, 2005 3:46 pm

BobcatLionFan wrote:For those interested. Ochs got into the Charger game this weekend. Last quarter (5 minutes left in a one sided game), Lemon (3rd string QB) was driving the team, Ochs was put in, handed the ball off twice, then two incomplete passes (not really close). Next series Lemon was put back in and Ochs didn't get on the field again.

It appeared the coachs just wanted him to see the field and say he played to his grand kids.

Don't see him staying with the Chargers unless on the practice squad (as Lemon did last year with Brees, Rivers, and Flutie ahead of him).

FYI

It was just 1 incomplete pass, he threw it a little behind the receiver, but it was in the receivers hands and he dropped it. I/m not sure how that was "not really close", but whatever. I agree he won't make this years roster, maybe the practice team or NFL Europe.

coachouert · Post by **coachouert** » Mon Aug 22, 2005 3:57 pm

grizbeer wrote:
BobcatLionFan wrote:For those interested. Ochs got into the Charger game this weekend. Last quarter (5 minutes left in a one sided game), Lemon (3rd string QB) was driving the team, Ochs was put in, handed the ball off twice, then two incomplete passes (not really close). Next series Lemon was put back in and Ochs didn't get on the field again.

It appeared the coachs just wanted him to see the field and say he played to his grand kids.

Don't see him staying with the Chargers unless on the practice squad (as Lemon did last year with Brees, Rivers, and Flutie ahead of him).

FYI
It was just 1 incomplete pass, he threw it a little behind the receiver, but it was in the receivers hands and he dropped it. I/m not sure how that was "not really close", but whatever. I agree he won't make this years roster, maybe the practice team or NFL Europe.

Can someone explain real quick how NFL Europe works, I'll be honest and say I only know it as basically a "Junior Varsity" type league for players to go and sharpen their skills before trying to move on to the NFL, but I don't know how players actually end up there to start. For example, if Ochs were to get a shot in that league, are they invited, do they try out at a camp, move from a practice squad, all of the above? Just curious.

Nick · Post by **Nick** » Mon Aug 22, 2005 4:50 pm

El_Gato wrote:No, Nick, I'm not an NFL coach. But the point is it doesn't TAKE an NFL coach to see that guys like DD & Ochs simply aren't capable of playing QB in the NFL.

Personally, I'm AMAZED by the # of you griz fans who are completely unable to honestly analyze anything; you're so blinded by the success of the Griz that you think every star on your team should be in the NFL and when they're not, you have to start blaming people and making up excuses.

Go check out the thread here on Roger Cooper's attempt to make it in the NFL. There's another thread where Travis Lulay's NFL potential is discussed, with most people agreeing he'll be a long-shot at best. The point is, I feel Bobcat fans tend to be a little more level-headed in analyzing these things while too many griz fans think every former Griz is a future NFL Hall of Famer.

Just another reason why so many folks look at you griz fans as arrogant, spoiled, and blind to reality...

Wow EG did you ever think that the Griz fans are rooting for Craig to get more of an attempt to prove himself than just one pass??!

I wouldn't call that blind faith but hope. We cheer for all I-AAers in the league, including Joey, and personally HOLD THE OPINION that Craig has the athletic and mental ability to succeed in the NFL.

Do we think it will happen? Probably not, but it would be great to see. Craig is obviously up against the best of competitors. Find one post where a Griz fan thinks he's a next NFL Hall of Famer......In that case you could give us $hit........but in believing in Craig and wishing him the best....

Voice your opinion on why Craig won't make it. Don't try smacking Griz fans in thinking he can.

El_Gato · Post by **El_Gato** » Mon Aug 22, 2005 5:05 pm

Nick wrote:Wow EG did you ever think that the Griz fans are rooting for Craig to get more of an attempt to prove himself than just one pass??!...

Wow, Nick, did you ever think if there was even a REMOTE chance that he was good enough to make an NFL roster, he'd GET TO THROW MORE THAN ONE PASS?

FYI, I've met Craig & his folks; had an extensive conversation with his Dad following the Bobcats win in Bozeman 2 seasons ago and talked with Craig for a good half hour at my store in Kalispell earlier this year. Both are top-notch people; intelligent, sincere, and easy to talk to. I'm sure you won't believe me, but I'd love it if Craig made the League. But, since I'm not a blind Griz fan, I can ANALYZE the situation WITHOUT all the emotional baggage a bunch of you griz fans are incapable of and come to the conclusion that he's a long shot at best. That's NOT because of some conspiracy against him or against Griz players; it's because his combination of size, speed, skills, durability, and intelligence simply isn't enough of a "complete package" for a coach to believe he could help his NFL team win games.

I really don't want to take the time to hunt down all the posts, but I'm pretty sure you've seen ALL the same one's that I have where griz fans are blaming someone else for DD or Ochs not getting a "fair shot". As to your "belief" that Craig possesses the "mental & athletic ability to succeed in the NFL", you're simply basing that on your blind love of the Griz because he's clearly not anywhere near NFL ready at this time. If you truly believe that, you don't watch a whole lot of NFL football.

As to the NFL Hall of Famer comment, Nick: It's called EXAGGERATION. Look it up. Fact is there are a TON of griz fans who routinely convince themselves that certain former Griz players are NFL-caliber when they simply aren't. And I know you've seen the many posts I'm referring to.

Eastcoastgriz · Post by **Eastcoastgriz** » Tue Aug 23, 2005 6:21 am

El_Gato wrote: The point is, I feel Bobcat fans tend to be a little more level-headed in analyzing these things while too many griz fans think every former Griz is a future NFL Hall of Famer.

Just another reason why so many folks look at you griz fans as arrogant, spoiled, and blind to reality...

You've gotta be joking. This just more garbage being thrown out by another cat fan. bobcat fans are NOT more level-headed than fans from any other team. All you’re doing is pushing your misconception of GRIZ FANS. Same can be said about out coach, BAC starts a tread looking for dirt Hauck has spoken about the cats and not one negative comment of his was posted.

The only truth is your whole post is GRIZ FANS have been spoiled with a decade of great football. Hopefully we will be spoiled for another decade.

grizbeer · Post by **grizbeer** » Tue Aug 23, 2005 7:52 am

El Gato I don't know if Ochs is NFL material or not, but I do think that if he had stayed at Colorado, or had transfered to Washington instead of Montana (even as a backup) he would have been given more opportunities than 1 pass in 1 series.

grizbeer · Post by **grizbeer** » Tue Aug 23, 2005 7:57 am

coachouert wrote: Can someone explain real quick how NFL Europe works, I'll be honest and say I only know it as basically a "Junior Varsity" type league for players to go and sharpen their skills before trying to move on to the NFL, but I don't know how players actually end up there to start. For example, if Ochs were to get a shot in that league, are they invited, do they try out at a camp, move from a practice squad, all of the above? Just curious.

http://www.nfleurope.com/faq

No tryouts, players are assigned by NFL teams after training camp.

El_Gato · Post by **El_Gato** » Tue Aug 23, 2005 8:59 am

So, eastcoast,

Have you read the numerous posts over on egriz claiming that DD and Ochs didn't get or aren't getting a "fair chance" at making it in the NFL? Are you denying that those posts exist?

And, in viewing our (Bobcat fan) opinions regarding Joey Thomas, Roger Cooper, John Taylor, or Travis Lulay's possible NFL careers, have you seen ANY Bobcat poster make similar claims that the coaches are screwing them or that there's some PLOT against them making it in the NFL? When JT was let go by the Lions (after drafting him in the 4th round), did you see anyone here start crying about some conspiracy against him, the Cats, or IAA players in general? I haven't and that combined with the griz fan posts I refer to above is why I claim we appear to be more level-headed when it comes to evaluating our kids pro potential. I'm not denying Craig Ochs had a terrific final year in Missoula; he almost singlehandedly led the Griz to the NC. BUT, and this is where too many griz fans get carried away, that DOESN'T mean he possesses enough attributes to be an NFL QB, plain & simple.

Note: I didn't specifically state you were one of these types nor who were the worst "maroon colored glass" griz fans, but you can't deny they exist; all you have to do is look on egriz and there's a bunch of them. It is their terribly skewed view (and their willingness to share those views) that I don't care for. It's one thing to be a fan and HOPE for a player to do well, but when people start saying things like they KNOW that so-and-so (Griz player) is good enough to play in the NFL and is not getting a "fair chance" at making it, it's just more sour grapes and unwillingness on that fans part to admit the truth: 99.9% of all Bobcat and Griz players are not good enough to play in the NFL.

Eastcoastgriz · Post by **Eastcoastgriz** » Tue Aug 23, 2005 10:47 am

El_Gato wrote:So, eastcoast,

Have you read the numerous posts over on egriz claiming that DD and Ochs didn't get or aren't getting a "fair chance" at making it in the NFL? Are you denying that those posts exist?

And, in viewing our (Bobcat fan) opinions regarding Joey Thomas, Roger Cooper, John Taylor, or Travis Lulay's possible NFL careers, have you seen ANY Bobcat poster make similar claims that the coaches are screwing them or that there's some PLOT against them making it in the NFL? When JT was let go by the Lions (after drafting him in the 4th round), did you see anyone here start crying about some conspiracy against him, the Cats, or IAA players in general? I haven't and that combined with the griz fan posts I refer to above is why I claim we appear to be more level-headed when it comes to evaluating our kids pro potential.
1st, List the GRIZ fans that are claiming a conspiracy that Craig isn’t playing as much as he should be. Or that he is being screwed.

2nd, I think I remember post on this site stating JT wasn't getting enough playing time. About how great he is and that he was going to make a great player in the NFL.

I'm not denying Craig Ochs had a terrific final year in Missoula; he almost single-handedly led the Griz to the NC. BUT, and this is where too many Griz fans get carried away, that DOESN'T mean he possesses enough attributes to be an NFL QB, plain & simple.
But he might and this is what most GRIZ fans are stating.

Note: I didn't specifically state you were one of these types nor who were the worst "maroon colored glass" Griz fans, but you can't deny they exist; all you have to do is look on egriz and there's a bunch of them.
My point is there is one over the top cat fan for every over the top GRIZ fan.

It's one thing to be a fan and HOPE for a player to do well, but when people start saying things like they KNOW that so-and-so (Griz player) is good enough to play in the NFL and is not getting a "fair chance" at making it, it's just more sour grapes and unwillingness on that fans part to admit the truth: 99.9% of all Bobcat and Griz players are not good enough to play in the NFL.
Again, list all these post that state they "KNOW" that so and so is good enough to play in the NFL. I went back and re-read several of the post and didn’t find all these post.

It is their terribly skewed view (and their willingness to share those views) that I don't care for.

Isn’t a fan web site set up to post your views and feeling about your team? Go back to last year and the three games you lost in a row and see what your fans were saying about your team.

El_Gato · Post by **El_Gato** » Tue Aug 23, 2005 11:34 am

Ask and ye shall receive, ecg.

NativeGriz, grizfnz, Silvertip, grizphan, ronbo, and Hammer all have stated variations of DD getting screwed or worrying that Ochs might.

Grizbeer, GrizMoose, and Nick all stated that Ochs is good enough to be an NFL QB. They state it as fact; not as opinion.

I found these in about 5 minutes; imagine if I REALLY went looking.

Now, find me that many folks talking about JT or ANY Bobcat in the same vein. Actually, don't bother because you can't.

The prosecution rests, your honor.

grizbeer · Post by **grizbeer** » Tue Aug 23, 2005 11:50 am

El_Gato wrote:Ask and ye shall receive, ecg.

Grizbeer, GrizMoose, and Nick all stated that Ochs is good enough to be an NFL QB. They state it as fact; not as opinion.

I found these in about 5 minutes; imagine if I REALLY went looking.

Now, find me that many folks talking about JT or ANY Bobcat in the same vein. Actually, don't bother because you can't.

The prosecution rests, your honor.

Here is my post on e-griz on the subject:

I watched the game on the NFL network - Craig handed of on 1st and 2nd down, on 3rd and 7 threw a pass that was a little behind the receiver, but in his hands (the receiver dropped it). SD went for it on 4th down, a pitch play I believe, but only got about 5 yards.

There was about 1:30 left when SL took over on downs, Fitzpatrick (rookie from Harvard) threw a beautiful 78 yard touchdown pass. SL tried on onside kick which SD recovered. Lemon returned to the game and immediately threw an incomplete pass. The NFL network then broke away from the game to go the the SF press conference, so I don't know how it ended.

I have now seen Lemon play in 2 games, and it seems like most of his passes are thrown in a way so that the only way the receiver could catch it was out of bounds. I really think if Craig had thrown the same passes he would already have 3 TD passes. Unfortunately I have a feeling Craig has seen his last minutes on the field for SD. Hope he gets a chance with another team.

http://www.egriz.com/GrizBoard/viewtopic.php?t=9533

Is this the post you are referring to El Gato? If so where id I say as fact that he was NFL material? I said I thinkif he has the same 3rd string pass opportunities Lemon had he would have 3 TD passes - but even that would not have guaranteed him an NFL spot, just saying IMO Craig is more accurate in his passes than Lemon. If this is the thread I think you are reading too much into what we are saying, if it was another (I did a search but couldn't find where I said as a statement of fact that Ochs was an NFL QB?

El_Gato · Post by **El_Gato** » Tue Aug 23, 2005 11:58 am

Sorry, grizbeer, but I think your claim that he'd have 3 TD passes in the same situation as Lemon does fall into the realm of the point I'm trying to make; that point being that too many griz fans simply can't take off your maroon colored glasses. Your comment DEFINITELY fits that even if you didn't state specifically Ochs was an NFL QB; I apologize for lumping you in that category.

My other major point is that I don't feel we do that much, if at all, here in Catland. Case in point, find me some Bobcat posts where we claim Joey would have 3 interceptions or JT would have 3 sacks, or Parcells shafted Coop etc. etc. etc....

All I'm stating is that I get tired of that mentality by a significant # griz fans, and you've shown me nothing to mitigate that.

Eastcoastgriz · Post by **Eastcoastgriz** » Tue Aug 23, 2005 12:22 pm

El_Gato wrote:Ask and ye shall receive, ecg.

NativeGriz, grizfnz, Silvertip, grizphan, ronbo, and Hammer all have stated variations of DD getting screwed or worrying that Ochs might.

Grizbeer, GrizMoose, and Nick all stated that Ochs is good enough to be an NFL QB. They state it as fact; not as opinion.

I found these in about 5 minutes; imagine if I REALLY went looking.

Now, find me that many folks talking about JT or ANY Bobcat in the same vein. Actually, don't bother because you can't.

The prosecution rests, your honor.

Why don’t you post the quotes from the above individuals that support what you're stating?

Tell me, what of the following statements are facts and which ones are my opinions:

"Craig is good enough to play in the NFL",
“The Griz will beat the cats this fall"
"Portland has a poor defense"
"The Griz have the best game day experience in the NW"

Just because someone makes a statement doesn’t mean they it's a "fact"!

Tonight maybe I can find some time to dig up some of the "facts" from some cat fans"

grizbeer · Post by **grizbeer** » Tue Aug 23, 2005 12:47 pm

El_Gato wrote:Sorry, grizbeer, but I think your claim that he'd have 3 TD passes in the same situation as Lemon does fall into the realm of the point I'm trying to make; that point being that too many griz fans simply can't take off your maroon colored glasses. Your comment DEFINITELY fits that even if you didn't state specifically Ochs was an NFL QB; I apologize for lumping you in that category.

My other major point is that I don't feel we do that much, if at all, here in Catland. Case in point, find me some Bobcat posts where we claim Joey would have 3 interceptions or JT would have 3 sacks, or Parcells shafted Coop etc. etc. etc....

All I'm stating is that I get tired of that mentality by a significant # griz fans, and you've shown me nothing to mitigate that.

Fair enough El Gato, I'll admit there is some maroon tint to my vision. I'll also admit that I think my kids are smarter, better behaved and better looking than the neighbor kids

Ochs did get to play

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