Why the Cats should pursue Mike Van Diest

bcats · Post by **bcats** » Mon Sep 25, 2006 12:40 pm

I would like to throw out a possible coaching canidate to replace Kramer at the end of the season. Mike Van Diest (Carroll College Saints) has won 4 straight NAIA National Championships. He recruits well and gets the most out of his players. His credentials speak for themself. He has previously coached in the Big Sky (that other school in Montana) winning the Big Sky title in 1982. In his 7 year-tenure his record is 78-16.

Kramer is on the hot seat wether you support him or not. I am ready for someone to take this program to the next level. If you think Van Diest isn't right for the job give me some reasons. All I can see is nothing but good. I don't know what his contract looks like but I have to believe that he would be interested if the numbers were right. Bozeman is less than 2 hours away from Helena and D-1AA is bigger than NAIA. I am lighting the flame lets start the fire.

CARDIAC_CATS · Post by **CARDIAC_CATS** » Mon Sep 25, 2006 12:45 pm

bcats wrote:I would like to throw out a possible coaching canidate to replace Kramer at the end of the season. Mike Van Diest (Carroll College Saints) has won 4 straight NAIA National Championships. He recruits well and gets the most out of his players. His credentials speak for themself. He has previously coached in the Big Sky (that other school in Montana) winning the Big Sky title in 1982. In his 7 year-tenure his record is 78-16.

Kramer is on the hot seat wether you support him or not. I am ready for someone to take this program to the next level. If you think Van Diest isn't right for the job give me some reasons. All I can see is nothing but good. I don't know what his contract looks like but I have to believe that he would be interested if the numbers were right. Bozeman is less than 2 hours away from Helena and D-1AA is bigger than NAIA. I am lighting the flame lets start the fire.

No Comment

info197176 · Post by **info197176** » Mon Sep 25, 2006 12:49 pm

Mike will not leave Helena for MSU...

bcats · Post by **bcats** » Mon Sep 25, 2006 12:58 pm

info197176 wrote:Mike will not leave Helena for MSU...

Why not? I am interested in your reasoning.

info197176 · Post by **info197176** » Mon Sep 25, 2006 1:04 pm

Several reasons that I don't feel comfortable mentioning on a message board...and he is a friend of Kramer...

bcats · Post by **bcats** » Mon Sep 25, 2006 2:27 pm

I still believe the question needs to be asked and an offer should be made. I really have no idea what personal reasons Van Diest might have against taking the job. He just seems like the perfect coach to turn a program around and win. From my point of view it seems like a perfect situation for him as well.

CARDIAC_CATS · Post by **CARDIAC_CATS** » Mon Sep 25, 2006 2:32 pm

Why would any coach want to coach at MSU if our fan base is going to jump off the ship during a hard dry spell (while we are breaking in a new inexperienced QB etc.) You think reading all these NEW COACH posts is enticing for a new coach to come in after what Kramer has done for our program the last 4-5 years? 3 BSC titles the last 4 years. I think not.

I bet our current players busting their buns out there to right the ship are just loving the posts/theme of some of our fans in this forum this week. I bet they are glad to get out of town and play away this week. I would be.
Which is very sad.

Platinumcat · Post by **Platinumcat** » Mon Sep 25, 2006 2:34 pm

At this time of the year....this is an unwarranted silly post.

info197176 · Post by **info197176** » Mon Sep 25, 2006 2:38 pm

amen...

Helcat72 · Post by **Helcat72** » Mon Sep 25, 2006 2:42 pm

CARDIAC_CATS wrote:Why would any coach want to coach at MSU if our fan base is going to jump off the ship during a hard dry spell (while we are breaking in a new inexperienced QB etc.) You think reading all these NEW COACH posts is enticing for a new coach to come in after what Kramer has done for our program the last 4-5 years? 3 BSC titles the last 4 years. I think not.

I bet our current players busting their buns out there to right the ship are just loving the posts/theme of some of our fans in this forum this week. I bet they are glad to get out of town and play away this week. I would be.
Which is very sad.

You are correct. I don't think Mike VanDiest would apply for a job where the previous coach was fired. He would like to inherit a job where the previous coach moved on because he moved up the ladder not because he got fired. Mike is good enough to pick and choose what kind of job he wants. Right now he is enjoying his job and coaching his son. When he is ready to move, I'm sure there will be places out there anxious to hire him. If Kramer gets the job done and moves on to a better job when Mike is ready to move...then he will probably consider MSU.

info197176 · Post by **info197176** » Mon Sep 25, 2006 2:49 pm

Helcat is right on..Mike wants to be very careful about any move..it has to be the right one for hm and his family.

bcats · Post by **bcats** » Mon Sep 25, 2006 2:50 pm

If you guys are happy with 7-5 records than I think that is sorry. We haven't won an outright Big Sky title because we lose games that we have no business losing. Everyone talks like this was supposed to be a rebuilding year. How many starters did we return? Yes we lost one of the greatest QB's in history but everyone was pretty up beat about this season and apparently other coaches and media thought so too. We are not going to win every game from here on out. I would love to see it and will eat crow if we do but it doesn't look good. Job security in coaching is based on winning. Kramer is not winning and hasn't won enough for this program to take the next step. MSU has all the tools to be a great program so why aren't we showing it?

bcats · Post by **bcats** » Mon Sep 25, 2006 2:56 pm

Helcat72 wrote:
CARDIAC_CATS wrote:Why would any coach want to coach at MSU if our fan base is going to jump off the ship during a hard dry spell (while we are breaking in a new inexperienced QB etc.) You think reading all these NEW COACH posts is enticing for a new coach to come in after what Kramer has done for our program the last 4-5 years? 3 BSC titles the last 4 years. I think not.

I bet our current players busting their buns out there to right the ship are just loving the posts/theme of some of our fans in this forum this week. I bet they are glad to get out of town and play away this week. I would be.
Which is very sad.
You are correct. I don't think Mike VanDiest would apply for a job where the previous coach was fired. He would like to inherit a job where the previous coach moved on because he moved up the ladder not because he got fired. Mike is good enough to pick and choose what kind of job he wants. Right now he is enjoying his job and coaching his son. When he is ready to move, I'm sure there will be places out there anxious to hire him. If Kramer gets the job done and moves on to a better job when Mike is ready to move...then he will probably consider MSU.

Have there been any rumors of any schools interested in Kramer. He isn't moving on any time soon. You have to win more games than you lose before you are considered for bigger and better jobs.

mtgrizrule · Post by **mtgrizrule** » Mon Sep 25, 2006 3:35 pm

WOW this board seems to be pretty split on a new coach. Myself, if Kramer is let go, Van Diest would be a great choice and worth pursuing. He has established himself in recruiting in MT, maybe that would get a few MT kids to go to MSU over MT. Kramer has not been able to do that and looks like he will not be the one to take it to a higher level on and off the field. Alot of MT's success is getting the in state kids and finding them playing time as fr or sophs, even at sacrificing more scoring. 1 fan posted that Van Diest would be more likely to take a job where a coach moved on, well that makes sense. Think about this logically Cat fans, if Bobby Hauck continues succeeding and this years team meets expectations, it is a matter of time before Bobby moves on for another opportunity. If that were to happen, I would think Van Diest certainly would be a strong candidate to takeover and would fit the better circumstance than replacing a fired coach. My thinking here, is get him while he is available verses losing him to another rival. As for Kramer, for his sake I hope he turns it around there. But things do not look good for him right now. Either way, Good luck cats on rest of the season.

BozoneCat · Post by **BozoneCat** » Mon Sep 25, 2006 4:00 pm

Sheesh, just because a coach wins at the NAIA level means he is the savior?! Give me a break. Van Diest is obviously a good coach, he would not have done what he has if he wasn't... that said, I can see very little correlation (if any) into how he would do at the I-AA level. Do you realize the difference between the two levels? Van Diest might do marginally better recruiting Montana (that is, if you are of the mindset that Kramer does not do a good job - personally, I disagree with that), but regardless of what many jizz fans like to think, you cannot build your program solely with Montana kids. There just aren't enough of them, and that is a fact. UM does a good job getting solid Montana kids, but most of them are just roster-fillers who make their fans happy because they can look down the roster and see how many MT kids there are (hint: MSU only has a few less Montana kids than does UM). The jizz marketing machine has done a great job indoctrinating the uneducated about how they are "Montana's team, built with Montana kids," but it simply isn't true. Most of their studs come from out of state, just like ours. They also get some studs from in-state, just like we do.

OK, before I really go off into a tangent, I'll get back to my point: Van Diest currently recruits about 90% Montana, and the other 10% is spread out to neighboring states. He would have to change that philosophy completely, and I don't know that he would have the coaching contacts to do that. Not saying he couldn't, but it is far from a sure thing. Managing the resources at a I-AA school is night-and-day different for a head coach, also. Again, he could possibly do it very well, but he certainly does not have the experience that would show he can for sure.

Just to reiterate: Van Diest is an excellent coach at Carroll College... which means absolutely nothing when considering how he would do by making the jump up several levels in play. Carroll also is fortunate to have many of the same advantages at the NAIA level that UM does at the I-AA level, which means he is going to get great athletes without even having to try very hard (not saying he doesn't work his butt off). Let's get off Kramer's back, at least for the rest of the season, and get back to this discussion if and when it becomes relevent.

bcats · Post by **bcats** » Mon Sep 25, 2006 4:05 pm

mtgrizrule wrote:WOW this board seems to be pretty split on a new coach. Myself, if Kramer is let go, Van Diest would be a great choice and worth pursuing. He has established himself in recruiting in MT, maybe that would get a few MT kids to go to MSU over MT. Kramer has not been able to do that and looks like he will not be the one to take it to a higher level on and off the field. Alot of MT's success is getting the in state kids and finding them playing time as fr or sophs, even at sacrificing more scoring. 1 fan posted that Van Diest would be more likely to take a job where a coach moved on, well that makes sense. Think about this logically Cat fans, if Bobby Hauck continues succeeding and this years team meets expectations, it is a matter of time before Bobby moves on for another opportunity. If that were to happen, I would think Van Diest certainly would be a strong candidate to takeover and would fit the better circumstance than replacing a fired coach. My thinking here, is get him while he is available verses losing him to another rival. As for Kramer, for his sake I hope he turns it around there. But things do not look good for him right now. Either way, Good luck cats on rest of the season.

You seem to be grasping what my intentions of this post hoped to acheive. I am not suggesting Kramer be fired in the middle of the season. I wish I was more optimistic about the Bobcats chances of winning even half of the up coming games. You have to start questioning if the program is where you want it and where it should be. My assessment of the program shows a downward spiral that we are all too familiar with. If this is the case changes must be made and people held accountable. It isn't the Head of the Math Dept. responsibility to put a winning football team on the field. I believe that there is an incredible replacement canidate that we should consider in the future if things don't change. A proven winner who can recruit and maximize his talent. Someone with an identitiy.

BozoneCat · Post by **BozoneCat** » Mon Sep 25, 2006 4:12 pm

bcats wrote:You seem to be grasping what my intentions of this post hoped to acheive. I am not suggesting Kramer be fired in the middle of the season. I wish I was more optimistic about the Bobcats chances of winning even half of the up coming games. You have to start questioning if the program is where you want it and where it should be. My assessment of the program shows a downward spiral that we are all too familiar with. If this is the case changes must be made and people held accountable. It isn't the Head of the Math Dept. responsibility to put a winning football team on the field. I believe that there is an incredible replacement canidate that we should consider in the future if things don't change. A proven winner who can recruit and maximize his talent. Someone with an identitiy.

One thing Mike Kramer does not lack is identity!

I still would like to see a rational explanation for how and why Mike Van Diest would be successful at MSU.

bcats · Post by **bcats** » Mon Sep 25, 2006 4:16 pm

BozoneCat wrote:Sheesh, just because a coach wins at the NAIA level means he is the savior?! Give me a break. Van Diest is obviously a good coach, he would not have done what he has if he wasn't... that said, I can see very little correlation (if any) into how he would do at the I-AA level. Do you realize the difference between the two levels? Van Diest might do marginally better recruiting Montana (that is, if you are of the mindset that Kramer does not do a good job - personally, I disagree with that), but regardless of what many jizz fans like to think, you cannot build your program solely with Montana kids. There just aren't enough of them, and that is a fact. UM does a good job getting solid Montana kids, but most of them are just roster-fillers who make their fans happy because they can look down the roster and see how many MT kids there are (hint: MSU only has a few less Montana kids than does UM). The jizz marketing machine has done a great job indoctrinating the uneducated about how they are "Montana's team, built with Montana kids," but it simply isn't true. Most of their studs come from out of state, just like ours. They also get some studs from in-state, just like we do.

OK, before I really go off into a tangent, I'll get back to my point: Van Diest currently recruits about 90% Montana, and the other 10% is spread out to neighboring states. He would have to change that philosophy completely, and I don't know that he would have the coaching contacts to do that. Not saying he couldn't, but it is far from a sure thing. Managing the resources at a I-AA school is night-and-day different for a head coach, also. Again, he could possibly do it very well, but he certainly does not have the experience that would show he can for sure.

Just to reiterate: Van Diest is an excellent coach at Carroll College... which means absolutely nothing when considering how he would do by making the jump up several levels in play. Carroll also is fortunate to have many of the same advantages at the NAIA level that UM does at the I-AA level, which means he is going to get great athletes without even having to try very hard (not saying he doesn't work his butt off). Let's get off Kramer's back, at least for the rest of the season, and get back to this discussion if and when it becomes relevent.

You want more than NAIA experience? How about Montana-1982 Big Sky Champs; Wyoming-2 WAC titles and 1 Pacific Division Championship: UMass-1986 Yankee Conference Champs. Another scenerio all to familiar to Cat fans should be from Kramer's first year. Montana Tech beats Humbolt State. Humbolt State beats MSU in our season opener. Maybe not as big of a leap as you think. He would have to recruit out of state kids by all means but he can recognize in state talent that has been missed by both MSU and UM, Casey Fittsimmons Detriot Lions.

1BadBobcat · Post by **1BadBobcat** » Mon Sep 25, 2006 4:20 pm

BozoneCat wrote:Sheesh, just because a coach wins at the NAIA level means he is the savior?! Give me a break. Van Diest is obviously a good coach, he would not have done what he has if he wasn't... that said, I can see very little correlation (if any) into how he would do at the I-AA level. Do you realize the difference between the two levels? Van Diest might do marginally better recruiting Montana (that is, if you are of the mindset that Kramer does not do a good job - personally, I disagree with that), but regardless of what many jizz fans like to think, you cannot build your program solely with Montana kids. There just aren't enough of them, and that is a fact. UM does a good job getting solid Montana kids, but most of them are just roster-fillers who make their fans happy because they can look down the roster and see how many MT kids there are (hint: MSU only has a few less Montana kids than does UM). The jizz marketing machine has done a great job indoctrinating the uneducated about how they are "Montana's team, built with Montana kids," but it simply isn't true. Most of their studs come from out of state, just like ours. They also get some studs from in-state, just like we do.

OK, before I really go off into a tangent, I'll get back to my point: Van Diest currently recruits about 90% Montana, and the other 10% is spread out to neighboring states. He would have to change that philosophy completely, and I don't know that he would have the coaching contacts to do that. Not saying he couldn't, but it is far from a sure thing. Managing the resources at a I-AA school is night-and-day different for a head coach, also. Again, he could possibly do it very well, but he certainly does not have the experience that would show he can for sure.

Just to reiterate: Van Diest is an excellent coach at Carroll College... which means absolutely nothing when considering how he would do by making the jump up several levels in play. Carroll also is fortunate to have many of the same advantages at the NAIA level that UM does at the I-AA level, which means he is going to get great athletes without even having to try very hard (not saying he doesn't work his butt off). Let's get off Kramer's back, at least for the rest of the season, and get back to this discussion if and when it becomes relevent.

Not trying to slam you, but please be informed before you try to post facts. 47 of the approximately 110 kids on the Carroll roster (including practice squads and redshirts) are from out-of-state. That equates to approximately 40%. And those kids come from alot more places than just neighboring states. Kids listed on the current roster are from Wyoming, Kansas, Idaho, Michigan, Oregon, California, Nevada, Washington, Alaska, and Arizona. My point is that Van Diest knows how to recruit. Granted, some of those kids came to Carroll because of their reputation, but you gotta build one first! I'm not petitioning for or against Van Diest, but he' a great recruiter and would be a qualified candidate if our coaching sitution changed at MSU.

bcats · Post by **bcats** » Mon Sep 25, 2006 4:22 pm

BozoneCat wrote:
bcats wrote:You seem to be grasping what my intentions of this post hoped to acheive. I am not suggesting Kramer be fired in the middle of the season. I wish I was more optimistic about the Bobcats chances of winning even half of the up coming games. You have to start questioning if the program is where you want it and where it should be. My assessment of the program shows a downward spiral that we are all too familiar with. If this is the case changes must be made and people held accountable. It isn't the Head of the Math Dept. responsibility to put a winning football team on the field. I believe that there is an incredible replacement canidate that we should consider in the future if things don't change. A proven winner who can recruit and maximize his talent. Someone with an identitiy.
One thing Mike Kramer does not lack is identity!

I still would like to see a rational explanation for how and why Mike Van Diest would be successful at MSU.

Kramer's identity is very noticable on TV and Radio. He is a great promoter. I don't know what his teams identity is based on? Are we a running team or passing team? 4-3 defense or a 3-4. Ball control or throw it down field? Who are we? What is his football philosophy? How does he plan on winning games or recruiting players with no football identity. Every coach has one what is his?

Why the Cats should pursue Mike Van Diest

Why the Cats should pursue Mike Van Diest

Re: Why the Cats should pursue Mike Van Diest