Interesting ESPN article re: rush 3, drop 8 defense

BozoneCat · Post by **BozoneCat** » Thu Oct 20, 2005 12:14 pm

http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/page2/st ... ock/051020

You also should've left the game convinced that it's foolish to drop eight defenders into coverage and never pressure Peyton Manning. The Rams, like many teams this season, decided to try to slow Indy's offense with a passive defensive scheme that took away the long ball.

The strategy opened up monster running lanes for Edgerrin James and freed Indy receivers for underneath routes. It also made the Rams' defenders embarrassingly soft. They couldn't tackle. The first defender almost never tackled James. Watching the Rams play defense was painful.

A defense has to occasionally blitz Manning and knock him to the turf.

Very interesting. Sounds alarming like the defense we have been playing thus far... especially the "painful to watch" part.

HelenaCat · Post by **HelenaCat** » Thu Oct 20, 2005 12:34 pm

CARDIAC_CATS · Post by **CARDIAC_CATS** » Thu Oct 20, 2005 12:35 pm

I watched the game and I was thinking the same thing. Give any good QB time to pass (even against 8 DB's) and he will get an opening to complete it to the receiver. There is just way too much field/angles a WR can use in order to get open in a seam. Was painfully very obvious to me that is what the Cats have been doing too. I'd rather go down with all my guns a blazing/attacking than just handing the offense 6-10 yard chunks in bunches hoping that they will make a mistake/turnover. The good teams will be all over us on that.

BobcatLionFan · Post by **BobcatLionFan** » Thu Oct 20, 2005 12:36 pm

Don't understand. We are not dropping 8 and rushing only three and we have not played a team that is that good passing.

I know PSU got 200, but that was the opposite of the articule where we were trying to stop the run and let a poor passer pass successfully. They also ran, which isn't great because we were focusing on stopping that.

Per Kramer last night, we are going to have the Safetys more involved in the Run defense.

How did the article relate to what the Cats are doing?? I first thought you were talking about the other team agaisnt Lulay and running lanes opening up (for Lulay to run).

HelenaCat · Post by **HelenaCat** » Thu Oct 20, 2005 12:47 pm

I have seen many plays where we are only rushing 3 this year! And the three rushing are all defensive tackle types (ie, big and slow). It is painful to watch! Other times we add one LB as a rusher, but as someone else pointed out, that is still not a blitz. At least then, we have one guy rushing with some speed.

It may not have been appropiate against a running team like PSU, but why are we not using some one like Macciola more in passing situations? I have only seen him on the field once this year (I believe against SFA) and they had him inside at nose. Even there, he was quck enough a few times to get close to the QB. Why not put him in (or others that we may have) at end in pass situiations for more speed at getting pressure on the QB?

CARDIAC_CATS · Post by **CARDIAC_CATS** » Thu Oct 20, 2005 12:50 pm

BobcatLionFan wrote:Don't understand. We are not dropping 8 and rushing only three and we have not played a team that is that good passing.

I know PSU got 200, but that was the opposite of the articule where we were trying to stop the run and let a poor passer pass successfully. They also ran, which isn't great because we were focusing on stopping that.

Per Kramer last night, we are going to have the Safetys more involved in the Run defense.

How did the article relate to what the Cats are doing?? I first thought you were talking about the other team agaisnt Lulay and running lanes opening up (for Lulay to run).

There were at least 4-5 times in the PSU game on 3rd down where we rushed only 3 DL and dropped the rest back into coverage. All were completions across the middle pretty much to Bodiford. The last crossing route to set up the field was the same thing .. rush 3 ... drop back 8 ... watch the receiver catch the ball in front of you after 5-6 seconds.

Helcat72 · Post by **Helcat72** » Thu Oct 20, 2005 12:54 pm

We were taking out at least two linebackers and replacing them with DB's that, IMO, were not that good at tackling. My observation was that most of the time when PSU would put in three receivers they ran...and when they put in less they passed unless it was long yardage... then they usually threw dump off passes to the fullback who ran all over our defense who tried in vain to tackle him.

If you look at the tape of the game you will see one maybe two DB's trying to make a tackle and the rest sort of tailing the play at half speed. We need to get back to 4 or five defenders getting to the ball.

I hate to bring back bad times, but at least Earle Solomonson had a technique where there had to be at least 9 players in the frame at the end of each defensive play. It was kind of funny actually to watch, and maybe players got worn out, but you would see tackles running down field trying to get into the final "frame" on pass plays.

Ponycat · Post by **Ponycat** » Thu Oct 20, 2005 1:42 pm

Was that Solomonson's idea or his D-coordinator who is now at Auburn? And pretty successful.

gtapp · Post by **gtapp** » Thu Oct 20, 2005 4:28 pm

The two best defenses I can remember (Pro) were the 85 Bears and the Eagles defense the last couple of years that Reggie White was there. The Bears sent extra people on every play (run or pass protection), you just never knew who was coming. The Eagles accomplished there pass rush with just the four down linemen but those four were very good.

When Kramer had a good rush he had very quick down linemen. Ross, Taylor, Cordeiro, Montoya, Clark, Sebestyen were all so quick off the ball that they could shoot gaps and get into the backfield. We never needed a blitz package with those guys.

catatac · Post by **catatac** » Thu Oct 20, 2005 4:46 pm

What I don't understand is why we aren't rotating more players on the D-line overall. Late in the 4th Q of an exhausting game it's still Papich, Rogers, and Siatago - occastionally subbed out by Saucedo. Was I missing more subbing going on? I know we're thin there but when those guys are exhausted like they obviously were - put in a fresh guy that can maybe make something happen. An average young D lineman is better than our best D Lineman who's exhausted from having been on the field all day IMO. For a play or 2 at least...

Bleedinbluengold · Post by **Bleedinbluengold** » Thu Oct 20, 2005 8:18 pm

We don't have guys to rotate...basically.

BozoneCat · Post by **BozoneCat** » Thu Oct 20, 2005 10:47 pm

Bleedinbluengold wrote:We don't have guys to rotate...basically.

What about Macciola and Rothenberger? I don't know much about either of these guys and how good they are, but who could tell from the lack of playing time so far? I think Macciola definitely deserves a chance - he had about 20 sacks last year at his JC. I don't care where you are playing, that is impressive at any level. At the very least, these guys could spell our guys so they aren't having to play every single down. Could they do much worse at putting pressure on opposing QB's?

CARDIAC_CATS · Post by **CARDIAC_CATS** » Fri Oct 21, 2005 9:09 am

BozoneCat wrote:
Bleedinbluengold wrote:We don't have guys to rotate...basically.
What about Macciola and Rothenberger? I don't know much about either of these guys and how good they are, but who could tell from the lack of playing time so far? I think Macciola definitely deserves a chance - he had about 20 sacks last year at his JC. I don't care where you are playing, that is impressive at any level. At the very least, these guys could spell our guys so they aren't having to play every single down. Could they do much worse at putting pressure on opposing QB's?

I was wondering about Macciola as well. I agree, 20 sacks at any level is impressive. I think he is suffering as a result of the switch to the 3-4. However, why not put him in there and switch sometimes to the 4-3 and let him edge rush with Lowe etc. That would be a LOT more effective thatn rushing 3 tired DL on 3rd down and dropping 8 guys. Let some of our 'fresh' guys pin their ears back and make a play! I'm not saying play the whole game like this, but give the oppossing team some different looks they aren't used to. This helps get QB/teams out of their rythm. Every QB we have played this year has been in a pretty good rythm against us (except SFA game). Why? because we play passive bend but don't break. If I'm an oppossing QB that has a good medium range arm and is accurate (That is music to my ears). Its a lot easier to throw an accurate ball when you can sit back there and step into the throw (lots of time) than running for you life from some defensive lineman/linebacker .. .that is for sure.

grizzh8r · Post by **grizzh8r** » Fri Oct 21, 2005 10:03 am