Brandon Hoffenbacker

Brick · Post by **Brick** » Tue Jun 28, 2005 5:04 pm

Brandon Hoffenbacker ACT score good enough for him to play this year? I think we could use him this year.

Bleedinbluengold · Post by **Bleedinbluengold** » Tue Jun 28, 2005 5:14 pm

I don't think they could offer him a scholarship unless it was.

mslacat · Post by **mslacat** » Wed Jun 29, 2005 7:42 am

Bleedinbluengold wrote:I don't think they could offer him a scholarship unless it was.

Typically the Letter of Intent inclueds language that says this offer is contigent upon graduating, and achieving a passable act/sat score.

BobcatLionFan · Post by **BobcatLionFan** » Wed Jun 29, 2005 8:27 am

What can happen if the grades/score is not there yet is he can be Grey Shirted (which allows him to go to school and lift with the team, but he could not practice I believe). Then he would have a red-shirt year still available if needed.

Even if his ACT is good enough, I still think they will look at red shirting him. Hard for a High School kid to play a power position on a very good team. The talk was the same about Beniger last year starting on the OL. But if he is the best, why not.

Bleedinbluengold · Post by **Bleedinbluengold** » Wed Jun 29, 2005 8:42 am

mslacat wrote:
Bleedinbluengold wrote:I don't think they could offer him a scholarship unless it was.
Typically the Letter of Intent inclueds language that says this offer is contigent upon graduating, and achieving a passable act/sat score.

If memory serves, the student has already taken the ACT by the time the LOI is signed?

I suppose it is not out of the question that the passing ACT/SAT score was not achieved at first, and the student could then take it again later, perhaps after the LOI is signed.

BobcatLionFan · Post by **BobcatLionFan** » Wed Jun 29, 2005 5:10 pm

SAT and ACT are both given roughly 4 to 6 times a year. Either is taken by MSU for qualification. To some takers ACT is easier than SAT.
More schools accept the SAT only than ACT.

You can take it multiple times trying to improve your score. They say after the 3rd time, increases are not typical. Most kids start taking the tests in their Junior year, with the final one taken just before applications are sent into universities (around November/Dec) because the score is used to determine acceptance. To get into a very competitive school (Stanford, Ivy League, etc) the kids all take it 3 or 4 times, along with taking special classes that teach them how to take the test. These students are going for 1400 to 1600 on the on SAT tests and every couple of extra points makes a difference in acceptance.

In the case of a scholarship kid, he can take it after application submission deadlines time trying to improve the score enough to qualify, since their aceptance to a university is handled in a special way (not part of the normal process at most all schools, excluding some of the top schools)

Actually the university does not validate the SAT and/or ACT for eligibility for playing, they only validate it for admissions to their school. There is an organization called "NCAA Clearinghouse" which reviews all college athelites for eligibility. The SAT and ACT send their scores to the clearinghouse as if it were another school (student designates the schools to send their scores to, one of which would be MSU and another would be the Clearinghouse, amoung others). The High School also sends the transript directly to the Clearinghouse. A combination of Grades plus test scores plus basic classes have to be taken, determines if they are eligible to play.

With this, they can still be admitted to the university (MSU can admit most anyone under special conditions), but not eligible to play for a year (thus the Grey Shirt).

Brick · Post by **Brick** » Wed Jun 29, 2005 9:34 pm

the reason I asked is because he is good enough and I think we will need him. I

BleedsBlue&Gold · Post by **BleedsBlue&Gold** » Thu Jun 30, 2005 8:47 am

The last I talked with Kramer, (after spring ball at the Msla booster meeting) he was talking about grey-shirting Hoff. I don't think anything has changed since then.

mquast53000 · Post by **mquast53000** » Thu Jun 30, 2005 9:02 am

Brick wrote:the reason I asked is because he is good enough and I think we will need him. I

With that new NCAA rule (you have to have a certain % of players graduate or you will lose scholarships) I would imagine that coaches are not going to gamble on the high-risk student athletes as much as they did in the past.

Cat Pride · Post by **Cat Pride** » Thu Jun 30, 2005 9:04 am

BleedsBlue&Gold wrote:The last I talked with Kramer, (after spring ball at the Msla booster meeting) he was talking about grey-shirting Hoff. I don't think anything has changed since then.

I've heard Mike say this too. He thinks Hoff could contribute right away, but in the long run, thinks getting Brandon established in school needs to happen first. The whole high school/college transition would be much easier if football wasnt also compounded upon him. Everyone knows Brandon has grade issues, so getting the kid all the help he can get is the right thing to do.

What good does it do Hoff to struggle with school while trying to play football. And what good does it do the football team to have a kid ineligible b/c these new adjustments were too much to handle.

Grey shirt is a great idea and the right thing to do in this situation.

BobcatLionFan · Post by **BobcatLionFan** » Thu Jun 30, 2005 11:38 am

mquast53000 wrote: With that new NCAA rule (you have to have a certain % of players graduate or you will lose scholarships) I would imagine that coaches are not going to gamble on the high-risk student athletes as much as they did in the past.

If you look at it in respect to Kramer, that would be 5 years out for Hoff to affect the rate and if Hoff is a real stud, then the probably is to play him if they can play him (quailifies via the NCAA). This year is an important year to the coaches I believe and they want to win.

On gambling on high-risk student athletes, the coaches may be more careful, but they will gamble in some cases or just accept that this one might fall in that area and make up for it in others. Hoff is probably worth the gamble since he appears to be a stud and he is from MONTANA. They want to have some Montana Stars for recruiting in-state and for political reasons

The 1st year players have to attend study hall. They can focus on Hoff and help him a lot, so he can be and will be taken care of. MSU needs to make sure he succeeds for multiple reasons.

I think it's down to if he qualifies with the NCAA. A grey shirt cannot be used for a normal student that does qualify, only for the ones that don't I believe.

gtapp · Post by **gtapp** » Thu Jun 30, 2005 6:17 pm

I think that if we have to rely on Hoffenbacker this year we have bigger problems. Other than Lulay can you think of any true freshman who made a significant contribution his first year? Goodman played his true freshman year but I would argue that he made only a minor contribution. Any other names come to mind?

Ponycat · Post by **Ponycat** » Thu Jun 30, 2005 6:32 pm

Cordero, who everyone also said would have problems in the class room.

gtapp · Post by **gtapp** » Thu Jun 30, 2005 10:48 pm

Ponycat wrote:Cordero, who everyone also said would have problems in the class room.

Cordero red-shirted his first year. That year (0-11) when Kramer started so many freshmen (16 at one point) I believe only one was a true freshman (Ione). Ione is a name I forgot for some reason. He made a significant contribution his first year.

mquast53000 · Post by **mquast53000** » Fri Jul 01, 2005 8:30 am

Willie Kofe played as a true freshman in 2001- he played significant time for a true freshman. He left after that year to go on his mission (he was Mormon). He was suppose to come back in 2 years, but never did. He was heavily recruited out west by other colleges, but they all passed on him when they heard he was going on his mission at the end of his freshman year. Kramer stuck with him hoping that he would come back after two years, but Willie was never heard from again.

HelenaCat · Post by **HelenaCat** » Fri Jul 01, 2005 8:37 am

Kofe signed with either Arizona State ot U of Arizona last spring after playing at a JC.

BobcatLionFan · Post by **BobcatLionFan** » Fri Jul 01, 2005 9:53 am

gtapp wrote:I think that if we have to rely on Hoffenbacker this year we have bigger problems. Other than Lulay can you think of any true freshman who made a significant contribution his first year? Goodman played his true freshman year but I would argue that he made only a minor contribution. Any other names come to mind?

I think there is/was a kid named Jeff Bolton who entered the starting line-up at the same time as Lulay as a true Freshman. Kind of tied together success wise. Probably one of the reasons Lulay has had some time to pass?

Cat Pride · Post by **Cat Pride** » Fri Jul 01, 2005 10:07 am

Joe Hirst had one helluva freshman year. The OL really missed that hog last year. It will be good to have him back!

gtapp · Post by **gtapp** » Fri Jul 01, 2005 10:32 am

Cat Pride wrote:Joe Hirst had one helluva freshman year. The OL really missed that hog last year. It will be good to have him back!

Hurst also had a red-shirt year. He like Jensen was very light when he showed up his first year. If you remember it was his spring ball performance that gave him the opportunity to start.

HelenaCat95 · Post by **HelenaCat95** » Fri Jul 01, 2005 10:45 am

Did Joey Thomas contribute as a true frosh?? or did he have a red-shirt year?