Pathetic

[crazycat]

This is not smack, this is fact.

I don't think that State has to worry about losing Kramer to Idaho now. With the record of a coach dealing drugs, an alleged murder by a former player, and now more drug dealings by current and former players no other program in the nation would want anything to do with the coach who recruited and hired the quality, or lack thereof, of players and coaches that have entered the State program since Kramer has been at the helm.

I, for one, will be on the phone tomorrow to the Board of Regents, to demand that they look at this on going embarssment to the State of Montana. This has to end now.

Do you really think your phone call is going to make a difference? Not smack it is a legetimate question.[/b]

Well if it isn't smack, then why are you referring to MSU with Bobby Hauck's signature line "State"? Nice try at disguising your post. Hauck once pissed on someone's head because that person was associated with MSU. There's some quality. Just make sure your own house is clean before coming over here.

[PapaG]

This is not smack, this is fact.

I don't think that State has to worry about losing Kramer to Idaho now. With the record of a coach dealing drugs, an alleged murder by a former player, and now more drug dealings by current and former players no other program in the nation would want anything to do with the coach who recruited and hired the quality, or lack thereof, of players and coaches that have entered the State program since Kramer has been at the helm.

I, for one, will be on the phone tomorrow to the Board of Regents, to demand that they look at this on going embarssment to the State of Montana. This has to end now.

This type of garbage has no business on this board.

Just saying, mods, that this poster's reputation precedes him.

He offers nothing to this site.

[Air_Griz]

Kramer is a good person and should not be held responsible for the poor choices of selfish and irresponsible kids who fail to consider the impact and consequences of their actions.

I honestly hope that these developments do not hinder Kramer's professional goals and aspirations. That would be unfair.

[catmom]

Yeah, I don't want to really say too much before we know the facts for sure. I hate speculation. And I think the majority of the guys on the team are pretty good. And we are definately not the only school to have dumbasses, this happens in lots of places. But it doesn't make it right. Leblanc is a great example. He gets suspended, supposedly for steroids, everybody is disappointed. Then he comes back and so many people welcome him back with open arms (I wasn't one of them). Then he shows his true self and punches that guy in the Appalachian game and generally acts like an idiot and disrepects his university. I love Montana State, and Bozeman, but I hate seeing students with scholarships (which they don't deserve and could probably care less about in the first place) run around this town like they own it and deface the institution. I would rather see a 0-11 team with great guys than what we have now. And I know there will always be bad apples, but isn't this getting excessive? Sorry for the rant folks.

I am sincerely saddened by the recent arrests. I know and really like 2 of the kids.

Regarding the LaBlanc incident in Ap St. I can tell you if I had a guy called me the "N" word on a constant basis I would definately take someones head off too. I don't think that kind of "trash talk" should ever be ok. I am amazed that people can get away with that kind of crap this day and age. I also know that is goes on all the time. Still doesn't make it right.

I can understand your frustration regarding "some bad apples". It has been my experience in meeting many athletes that have come here to play sports that most are very happy to be here and take full advantage of their opportunity. It is very true that there are some that think the world revolves and sets around them. I have found that to be the exception rather than the rule. It angers me too when some throws away an excellent opportunity to better themselves. I wish there was an easy answer to prevent this sort of thing from happening. I don't know what that answer is.

[DriftCat]

The only thing that I can say right now is this is extremely disappointing. How many times can this seriously happen. Hey Fuller, I have an idea! You are (or should I say were) getting a top notch education while getting to play a game that you love. HOW ABOUT TAKING ADVANTAGE OF IT!!!!!!!

[The Butcher]

Do you really think your phone call is going to make a difference? Not smack it is a legetimate question.

I take it you don't vote either, because one vote doesn't make a difference.

We should all keep our feelings too ourselves no matter how disgusted we are so there will be no actions taken.

[Cannonball]

Let's let the Board of Regents decide that.

How low can a program go before action is taken. Do any of the other University systems have problems like State? Just looking at Northern, Western, Tech, U of M, Eastern BB program, no one rivals the State record.

Problems are there and they will be addressed. This is just not a student that made a wrong decisions issue, this is now to the point of who made the wrong deciision to bring the students to the State campus.

[badasscat]

Do you really think your phone call is going to make a difference? Not smack it is a legetimate question.

I take it you don't vote either, because one vote doesn't make a difference.

We should all keep our feelings too ourselves no matter how disgusted we are so there will be no actions taken.

I don't like your reply so I am letting you know here in this public fourm. Now did that make a difference? No. I just don't see the point in someone saying I am going call the Board of Regents on this board to try to sound like a big shot.

[couloir41]

this kind of thing will increase over the years...it's a function of a growing demand for winning football and colliding cultures...so my advice is get used to it...

that does not mean condone it...there is no single answer and i'm sure the commission appointed earlier will have recommendations...(they may have already finished it)...but this issue will persist and continue to challenge the administration and fans...

kids do stupid things...ask me...and look in the mirror...you will find alot of answers by asking questions about yourself...

[Platinumcat]

The shocking thin is that Fuller comes from a good family. His mom is very involved in his life. Davis' dad is an assistant high school coach.

I'm not trying to turn this into a philosophical question, but is it a reflection of something bigger in American society? Everyone I know said these guys were great guys. Hardworking. Caring. WTF!?

If they sold it, all proceeds should go to MSU athletics.

First off, let me preface what I'm about to say by stating that I am totally pissed by what has surfaced. But,
1) Let's be careful when talking about the people who have been recruited to come here to play sports while we are emotionally charged. By this, I mean to state what was it that the coaches were supposed to see in people like Fuller and Davis when we are recruiting these individuals. A huge factor for a coach in assessing an athlete has to be what kind of home life they come from. Now, I'm not saying that only athletes from good families ever be taken. But, this has to go a long way in assessing them. So, if we are going to now criticize the coaching staff for how they recruit these kids, how could it be done better? Obviously I am speaking directly to the situation with Fuller and Davis. I know we could get into a huge discussion on drop downs who have had issues at their schools, such as Henderson and LeBlanc. But, do any of you REALLY believe that Kramer and his staff turn a blind eye to EVERYTHING if they think the kid can play? I don't! That would suggest a lack of morals and ethics; which I think Kramer has plenty of.

2) Someone stated that perhaps Kramer should spend more time with these kids to have a higher degree of knowledge of what is going on. Interesting point. I disagree. First off, you have the team mates who would/should not allow this type of thing to knowingly go on. Also, there are the assistant coaches and athletic personnel who spend much time in the locker room with these athletes; they would know. While it is altruistic to think that Kramer and his staff should know everything about what goes on with his players. That simply isn't possible, AND WE ALL KNOW IT! I think some of this sentiment is coming out from sheer frustration. And, like I said, I share this frustration.

3) Another comment was made regarding the sociological possibilities that create these situations where kids from solid backgrounds find themselves suddenly in with the wrong crowd. These kids look for familiarity. For a black/yellow/white/brown individual, would they not seek out others of the same ethnicity? A positive proof of this is in the Samoans on the team; they are tight knit. Familiarity breeds comfort. So, I submit that some players come here with solid back grounds only to become involved with individuals/groups that ultimately lead them down a path that is wrong.

I don't want to come off as being sympathetic toward this action or these individuals, if they are indeed guilty of their accused crimes. I am simply striving to figure out why this is happening. I have spent the last 6 hours ( I was tipped off of the pending news release earlier this PM) racking my brain over this. I went from anger toward the players/coaches (such as I'm seeing in this thread) to trying to understand it. I am confused, angry, disappointed on several levels at this point.

I apologize for the long post. I tend to ramble when emotional.

[Hell's Bells]

The shocking thin is that Fuller comes from a good family. His mom is very involved in his life. Davis' dad is an assistant high school coach.

I'm not trying to turn this into a philosophical question, but is it a reflection of something bigger in American society? Everyone I know said these guys were great guys. Hardworking. Caring. WTF!?

If they sold it, all proceeds should go to MSU athletics.

First off, let me preface what I'm about to say by stating that I am totally pissed by what has surfaced. But,
1) Let's be careful when talking about the people who have been recruited to come here to play sports while we are emotionally charged. By this, I mean to state what was it that the coaches were supposed to see in people like Fuller and Davis when we are recruiting these individuals. A huge factor for a coach in assessing an athlete has to be what kind of home life they come from. Now, I'm not saying that only athletes from good families ever be taken. But, this has to go a long way in assessing them. So, if we are going to now criticize the coaching staff for how they recruit these kids, how could it be done better? Obviously I am speaking directly to the situation with Fuller and Davis. I know we could get into a huge discussion on drop downs who have had issues at their schools, such as Henderson and LeBlanc. But, do any of you REALLY believe that Kramer and his staff turn a blind eye to EVERYTHING if they think the kid can play? I don't! That would suggest a lack of morals and ethics; which I think Kramer has plenty of.

2) Someone stated that perhaps Kramer should spend more time with these kids to have a higher degree of knowledge of what is going on. Interesting point. I disagree. First off, you have the team mates who would/should not allow this type of thing to knowingly go on. Also, there are the assistant coaches and athletic personnel who spend much time in the locker room with these athletes; they would know. While it is altruistic to think that Kramer and his staff should know everything about what goes on with his players. That simply isn't possible, AND WE ALL KNOW IT! I think some of this sentiment is coming out from sheer frustration. And, like I said, I share this frustration.

3) Another comment was made regarding the sociological possibilities that create these situations where kids from solid backgrounds find themselves suddenly in with the wrong crowd. These kids look for familiarity. For a black/yellow/white/brown individual, would they not seek out others of the same ethnicity? A positive proof of this is in the Samoans on the team; they are tight knit. Familiarity breeds comfort. So, I submit that some players come here with solid back grounds only to become involved with individuals/groups that ultimately lead them down a path that is wrong.

I don't want to come off as being sympathetic toward this action or these individuals, if they are indeed guilty of their accused crimes. I am simply striving to figure out why this is happening. I have spent the last 6 hours ( I was tipped off of the pending news release earlier this PM) racking my brain over this. I went from anger toward the players/coaches (such as I'm seeing in this thread) to trying to understand it. I am confused, angry, disappointed on several levels at this point.

I apologize for the long post. I tend to ramble when emotional.

you know what i agree with you but here is another angle to consider, not that i agree with what i am about to type:

perhaps, by agreeing to play sports of any kind, any level, if the given athlete messes up during the game, or off the field, they should expect to be lit into like we are doing right now. nobody is immune of criticism, even if we stop it on bn it is bound to occur everywhere

[badasscat]

Here we go the news is on.

[nevadacat]

"Kids do stupid things." I think I've read that a dozen times lately, and not just on this board or in this thread. Six teens were arrested in Vegas recently for throwing Molotov cocktails at a parochial school. Four of them arrested on the eve of their state football semi-final game. Have heard it about them, too. I'm getting very tired of hearing of kids, particularly athletes, "doing stupid things."

Pouring soap in the fountain is stupid. Toilet papering the trees around the campus is stupid. Pulling the fire alarm at 2:00 am in the dorm is stupid. Driving a jeep across the soccer fields is stupid.

Rape is criminal. Selling drugs is criminal. Conspiring to murder is criminal. Firebombing is criminal.

There's no way felonious behavior should be minimized by calling it "stupid things." Do young people, even those now in adulthood make poor choices? Absolutely. But, to paraphrase a previous post, I'd rather have student-athletes of character and go 0-11 than have thugs winning a national championship.

[Platinumcat]

Here we go the news is on.

Was that more info? Can you say baiting with a carrot?

Seriously, I didn't hear any new information in that two minute clip from 5:00.

[badasscat]

Here we go the news is on.

Was that more info? Can you say baiting with a carrot?

Seriously, I didn't hear any new information in that two minute clip from 5:00.

I think thet got their info for the story from BN.

[Platinumcat]

The shocking thin is that Fuller comes from a good family. His mom is very involved in his life. Davis' dad is an assistant high school coach.

I'm not trying to turn this into a philosophical question, but is it a reflection of something bigger in American society? Everyone I know said these guys were great guys. Hardworking. Caring. WTF!?

If they sold it, all proceeds should go to MSU athletics.

First off, let me preface what I'm about to say by stating that I am totally pissed by what has surfaced. But,
1) Let's be careful when talking about the people who have been recruited to come here to play sports while we are emotionally charged. By this, I mean to state what was it that the coaches were supposed to see in people like Fuller and Davis when we are recruiting these individuals. A huge factor for a coach in assessing an athlete has to be what kind of home life they come from. Now, I'm not saying that only athletes from good families ever be taken. But, this has to go a long way in assessing them. So, if we are going to now criticize the coaching staff for how they recruit these kids, how could it be done better? Obviously I am speaking directly to the situation with Fuller and Davis. I know we could get into a huge discussion on drop downs who have had issues at their schools, such as Henderson and LeBlanc. But, do any of you REALLY believe that Kramer and his staff turn a blind eye to EVERYTHING if they think the kid can play? I don't! That would suggest a lack of morals and ethics; which I think Kramer has plenty of.

2) Someone stated that perhaps Kramer should spend more time with these kids to have a higher degree of knowledge of what is going on. Interesting point. I disagree. First off, you have the team mates who would/should not allow this type of thing to knowingly go on. Also, there are the assistant coaches and athletic personnel who spend much time in the locker room with these athletes; they would know. While it is altruistic to think that Kramer and his staff should know everything about what goes on with his players. That simply isn't possible, AND WE ALL KNOW IT! I think some of this sentiment is coming out from sheer frustration. And, like I said, I share this frustration.

3) Another comment was made regarding the sociological possibilities that create these situations where kids from solid backgrounds find themselves suddenly in with the wrong crowd. These kids look for familiarity. For a black/yellow/white/brown individual, would they not seek out others of the same ethnicity? A positive proof of this is in the Samoans on the team; they are tight knit. Familiarity breeds comfort. So, I submit that some players come here with solid back grounds only to become involved with individuals/groups that ultimately lead them down a path that is wrong.

I don't want to come off as being sympathetic toward this action or these individuals, if they are indeed guilty of their accused crimes. I am simply striving to figure out why this is happening. I have spent the last 6 hours ( I was tipped off of the pending news release earlier this PM) racking my brain over this. I went from anger toward the players/coaches (such as I'm seeing in this thread) to trying to understand it. I am confused, angry, disappointed on several levels at this point.

I apologize for the long post. I tend to ramble when emotional.

you know what i agree with you but here is another angle to consider, not that i agree with what i am about to type:

perhaps, by agreeing to play sports of any kind, any level, if the given athlete messes up during the game, or off the field, they should expect to be lit into like we are doing right now. nobody is immune of criticism, even if we stop it on bn it is bound to occur everywhere

Yep, I agree as to the athletes and to the coaches. I just not sold on the coaches purposely bringing in felonious individuals and turning them loose with no supervision.

[Platinumcat]

"Kids do stupid things." I think I've read that a dozen times lately, and not just on this board or in this thread. Six teens were arrested in Vegas recently for throwing Molotov cocktails at a parochial school. Four of them arrested on the eve of their state football semi-final game. Have heard it about them, too. I'm getting very tired of hearing of kids, particularly athletes, "doing stupid things."

Pouring soap in the fountain is stupid. Toilet papering the trees around the campus is stupid. Pulling the fire alarm at 2:00 am in the dorm is stupid. Driving a jeep across the soccer fields is stupid.

Rape is criminal. Selling drugs is criminal. Conspiring to murder is criminal. Firebombing is criminal.

There's no way felonious behavior should be minimized by calling it "stupid things." Do young people, even those now in adulthood make poor choices? Absolutely. But, to paraphrase a previous post, I'd rather have student-athletes of character and go 0-11 than have thugs winning a national championship.

Ummmmm, nevadacat, all three of your other samples are criminal as well (sorry just had to rib ya a little )

That being said, I do understand where you are coming from. One characteristic that seems to always be missing from younger individuals is the ability to evaluate effect before taking action. I know as I've matured and grown older, my consideration for things has improved from when I was younger (OK, the Thundestix is not a good example ) I would be willing to bet that all of us have something in our history that we thank God we weren't caught doing.
I'm definitely not sticking up for the individuals whom we are discussing; they had a serious lapse in judgment of right and wrong that led them to this point. If proven guilty, they deserve the full punishment of the law.

[1BadBobcat]

"Kids do stupid things." I think I've read that a dozen times lately, and not just on this board or in this thread. Six teens were arrested in Vegas recently for throwing Molotov cocktails at a parochial school. Four of them arrested on the eve of their state football semi-final game. Have heard it about them, too. I'm getting very tired of hearing of kids, particularly athletes, "doing stupid things."

Pouring soap in the fountain is stupid. Toilet papering the trees around the campus is stupid. Pulling the fire alarm at 2:00 am in the dorm is stupid. Driving a jeep across the soccer fields is stupid.

Rape is criminal. Selling drugs is criminal. Conspiring to murder is criminal. Firebombing is criminal.

There's no way felonious behavior should be minimized by calling it "stupid things." Do young people, even those now in adulthood make poor choices? Absolutely. But, to paraphrase a previous post, I'd rather have student-athletes of character and go 0-11 than have thugs winning a national championship.

[SaltyCat]

Not sure if this has been posted, but here is a little more info from espn...

http://sports.espn.go.com/ncf/news/story?id=2695830

[SaltyCat]

and for those too lazy to follow the link....

BOZEMAN, Mont. -- Montana State cornerback Andre Fuller is charged with selling cocaine and has been suspended from the team pending the investigation, school officials said.

Fuller, 22, a junior from Pompano Beach, Fla., was arrested Monday, as were former players Edward "Eddy" Sullivan, 23, of Carlsbad, Calif., and Derrick Lamont Davis Jr., 21, of Santa Monica, Calif.

All three are accused of selling drugs in June to an informant working for the Missouri River Drug Task Force.

The drug arrests are the latest in a string of criminal incidents involving current and former MSU athletes that has the school evaluating its recruiting practices.

During the investigation, Fuller allegedly sold 4.6 grams of cocaine to an informant for $180, court records said.

"It's a horrific disappointment for me and the university," Bobcats coach Mike Kramer said. "For the amount of energy we spent trying to grow and mold and teach, and the amount of expense we used to try and have these guys mature into making the right decisions, [it] can all be tipped over very quickly by the impression of one guy doing something that he shouldn't have."

Athletic director Peter Fields described the incident as "a very big shock" that creates a "deep concern."

Fuller had two interceptions, 15 pass breakups and 65 tackles this season in earning honorable mention all-Big Sky Conference honors.

Sullivan, a former star receiver who played in 2003 and 2004 and still attends MSU, is accused of selling an informant an ounce of marijuana on two separate occasions. Each ounce cost $320.

Davis, who played in seven games last season, allegedly sold cocaine to an informant on two separate occasions.

Fuller and Sullivan posted bail and were released. Davis remains in jail, charged with two counts of distributing cocaine, court records said.

Other recent arrests involving MSU athletes include former basketball player Branden Miller and former football player John Lebrum, who were charged with murder and kidnapping in the June slaying of Jason Wright. Miller and Lebrum pleaded not guilty and their cases are expected to go to trial next year.

Copyright 2006 by The Associated Press