How do Cats stack up against Griz

[BobcatBuiltTexan]

My two biggest concerns are how Lamson handles the griz pressure and getting a punt/kick blocked.

I could see him taking some bad sacks if he continues to hold on to the ball too long or waits too long to run with it and if he gets sacked a few times early how does that affect him the rest of the game. We've been good lately on our punts/kicks but you know Bobbi will have ST dialed up to try and turn the game there.

If we can handle those two threats well I don't think we'll have too much to worry about. This is a tough team with a lot of MT and/or experienced players on the team who understand what they'll be walking into.

I actually think that the fact that we have quite a few key players that aren't from MT is what will be key for us. They know it's a big game but they are less likely to get caught up in the emotion of it all....whether they wanted to go to the griz or always hated the griz. They obviously want to beat the griz as it's a culture thing but the emotion that many of the MT players will have surrounding this game won't be there for them, it will allow them to approach the game like any other big game. It's like being from cali and playing for ut in the red river shootout. yeah you know it's a rivalry game but it doesn't hit the same so you just play the game. you didn't grow up hating or loving one team, you don't have to go home and worry about hearing jeers from either side because you won or lost...that mental part of the game doesn't exist for quite a few of our best players. I think they would have been more up or emotional about Oregon than the griz. Now I do think the griz is going to throw everything at us so the whole team will need to ready for the tricks and the bs that I feel will present itself.

I feel one of two things will happen....1. we come out like we did against UNC and defensively we are on their necks. Offense will be a bit sluggish to start but the defense will energize them quickly and we put our foot on their throats. then i feel the griz will resort to some bs to rattle our cage so our guys need to not get caught up in that and get ejected or get any penalties to give them a shot in the arm. fans will be on the teams butt the whole game so they just got to block it out. or 2. we're in a hard hitting dog fight. both defenses will lead the way with big hits, stout play and the offenses will need to have one or two key drives to pull ahead. the special teams game will be the tipping point in this scenario. we HAVE to be solid every single time, zero glitches. if we are in scenario 2 the game will be won or lost by our STs play(big kor, pr..blocked kick..missed fg or xpt...something like that). I don't think the griz feels they are better than us on offense or defense so they will offset that with ST play to keep them in the game, we have to match that energy.

oh yeah i see the griz making it ugly, they are going to try to out physical us, hard physical runs, defensively hit the qb everytime they get a chance(even getting some roughing the passer calls to get in our heads). I don't see them lining up and just being better than us, but I do see them trying to out play us...again we have to match that level of intensity for the whole game. They remind me of Katy HS here in Texas. They aren't fancy but good lord are they physical ALL GAME. We have to be willing to hit and hit HARD all game regardless of the score.

Your first paragraph is an interesting perspective that I don't know if we've seen here before. The general consensus on BN, and the fandom at large, is that out of state guys are the weakness going into Cat-griz because they don't get it and have trouble rising to the moment. I suppose that could be backwards for some of the guys from TX because of the high school environment. There's always the possibility that the MT guys are overhyped for the game but that is kind of the point. It's not just another big game and both sides treat it like the super bowl. "It just means more" and you need the entire team on board with that to win.

I don’t think that out of state kids are a weakness by any means. I’ve seen plenty kids from out of state that have had massive games in the Brawl.

Rather, I would just say that having lots of in state kids is an advantage. The history of this rivalry is littered with examples of MT players elevating their play to new heights.

So for someone to say it’s an advantage to have more out of state players is just revealing that they don’t know much about this game. And I say that as someone who was not born in Montana.

What I don't think you get is that I'm from Texas....the Cat-Griz game is no bigger than the UT/A$M or UT/OU game. I full well understand the history of the game and understand the hatred vitriol and passion that comes with these types of games. TBH our high school rivalry games are gawd awfully passionate. I do feel it is an advantage to have guys at key positions that aren't from MT because they don't have that emotion that will have them to make mistakes by being overly hyped up. Their approach is little different but still can/has produced great play. Just a different perspective.

I get what you're saying BBB, but in my personal opinion this line of thinking is always my biggest concern going into the brawl. How "big" a rivalry game is all subjective. Obviously on a national scale games like Alabama/Auburn, Michigan/Ohio State or Texas/Oklahoma are "bigger". But I couldn't care less about those teams. The biggest rivalry in the country is Cat/Griz because it is OUR rivalry. It's bigger than football. It goes way beyond the number of fans in attendance or how loud it is. The fact that some of these kids have played in front of 20k fans in high school means absolutely nothing.

To be clear, once you're a Bobcat you're always a Bobcat in my eyes. And you're a Montanan. I don't care where you're from one you wear that blue and gold. We wouldn't be where we are this season or even as a program without out-of-state kids; and I'm thankful for all of them. But as a fan of the Cats for over 40 years, seeing both really good football and really bad football, I can tell you we have gotten in trouble in the past with players underestimating this game. We've had players who have felt like they have played in bigger stadiums or came from a huge school or had a ton of amazing athletes or whatever else you want to put here. They acted as though this was just another game. Just a "rivalry" game at an FCS school when they came from SEC country so they downplay it. And it has never went well.

I'm not suggesting this is how these guys are viewing this game. I'm saying without a doubt this is how others before them have viewed this game. I don't care where any of our players are from. Montana or the moon. Doesn't matter. But when they take the field I want them KNOWING this is the biggest rivalry in the country. Because if you're playing in it that's just what it is.

I'm tired of going over there with what I consider a better team and getting crushed. Not just beat but crushed. It just can't happen anymore. Vigen needs to show he can win this game in Missoula. We literally control our own destiny and we need every single player giving this game the respect it deserves.

Totally understand where you're coming from. I think everyone here kind of is proving my point. The amount of emotion that this game brings out isn't foreign to players or to me. But the fact that the Fandom is so passionate which includes MT players it CAN cause problems. I get that you may not give a darn about rivalries anywhere else, but to act like this rivalry is foreign to certain players because they aren't from there just isn't true. Now some players may take a more lax approach,I don't agree with that. You have to know that these games are all bets are off, and I'm saying many of these players do in fact get that. They know how to enter this game knowing what its going to be like but they can separate the emotion of hating the griz from just getting up to play the griz because it IS a big game in the culture up there. THAT is my only point....I may be wrong.... don't think I am as I've been around rivalries and a part of them and seen how things go. But I believe we'll win and I believe all players will take the field KNOWING this is THE game of the regular season.

[BobcatBuiltTexan]

Unfortunately, having an FCS player who’s seen the ‘big deal’ that Texas football is, doesn’t relate to wins in this game. Statistically, the team with the better Montana kids wins it. Oddly, the out of state kids sometimes are the ones pressing. Bobcat fans will remember , as we climbed the big stage, having team with incredible skill players and being outplayed on the lines one or two games a year was confusing. We do t have that anymore because of a mix of players from anywhere that will don the blue and gold. Luckily, it doesn’t come up to us. Calm heads prevail, usually because they are the skilled and talented. Where they are from doesn’t matter. Passion doesn’t have to mean going insane and being the aggressor. But you better understand the Griz are going to employ that this year. Explosiveness, big plays, disruption…..yes. It’s their best chance of winning.

Totally agree... never said it equates to wins... said it could be an advantage. That's all. Like you said everyone needs to know this is THE game of the regular season and prepare and enter accordingly.

[OldGriz]

What I don't think you get is that I'm from Texas....the Cat-Griz game is no bigger than the UT/A$M or UT/OU game. I full well understand the history of the game and understand the hatred vitriol and passion that comes with these types of games. TBH our high school rivalry games are gawd awfully passionate. I do feel it is an advantage to have guys at key positions that aren't from MT because they don't have that emotion that will have them to make mistakes by being overly hyped up. Their approach is little different but still can/has produced great play. Just a different perspective.

No, you don't understand. Because you haven't followed it very long and you haven't experienced it. That's evidenced by your argument that out-of-state players, rather than MT players, are the real key to victory. If you had been following the game for a long time, you would know that isn't true-- this game has a history of defining games by Montana-born players. This is, in large part, because it's smaller and more personal than other, bigger places.

I am not close to the UT/AM rivalry and so I wouldn't presume to tell people in College Station or Austin how it works.

Everyone gets it. You're a McMillan connection/fan. That's great. He's a baller and Bobcat fans love that he's in Bozeman. We hope he never leaves until he's out of eligibility. But your perspective isn't informed by actually knowing anything about the Brawl; it's informed by the fact that you are a McMillan fan first and so you're always going to take the stance that favors him.

First off I never said that the key to victory is out of state players. I said that it could be an actual advantage because they won't get caught up in the emotion of the game. If it came off as me saying that having more OOS players is the key, please scaly my apologies as that's not what I'm saying. I simply said having some players at key positions that won't get caught up in the emotion is an advantage. Again never saying they ARE THE KEY to victory.


Oh and I can understand the rivalry. I don't have to be there to understand the passion that goes into this game. The sense of state pride in winning this game. I totally get it and I totally get how important it is for MT players play week in this game and in large part are the key players IN this game. This rivalry again is no bigger than UT/A$M...auburnVSbama.....etc. I totally get it and I still that it CAN be advantage because those few players are less likely to get caught up in the overall emotion of this game because they are removed from the deep rooted history. You don't have to agree that's fine. But again I never said they are the key to victory, I said it could actually be an advantage. That's it

Clifton McDowell from Texas was the butt of a lot of jokes in Bobcatnation for calling the Cat-Griz game “the battle of the brawl or whatever they call it.” The Griz QB said that in 2023 after the Griz beat Portland State and were looking ahead to the Cat-Griz game the following week. Everyone in Bobcatnation was laughing at McDowell and saying he was going to get crushed because a Texas kid could never understand the significance of the Montana rivalry game. How did it turn out? McDowell played great. The Griz beat the Cats. Tommy Turnover threw at least one interception. The Griz went to the chipper. And McDowell made a lot of money on “battle of the brawl” T-shirts.

https://www.montanarightnow.com/missoul ... c041b.html

[hokeyfine]

What I don't think you get is that I'm from Texas....the Cat-Griz game is no bigger than the UT/A$M or UT/OU game. I full well understand the history of the game and understand the hatred vitriol and passion that comes with these types of games. TBH our high school rivalry games are gawd awfully passionate. I do feel it is an advantage to have guys at key positions that aren't from MT because they don't have that emotion that will have them to make mistakes by being overly hyped up. Their approach is little different but still can/has produced great play. Just a different perspective.

No, you don't understand. Because you haven't followed it very long and you haven't experienced it. That's evidenced by your argument that out-of-state players, rather than MT players, are the real key to victory. If you had been following the game for a long time, you would know that isn't true-- this game has a history of defining games by Montana-born players. This is, in large part, because it's smaller and more personal than other, bigger places.

I am not close to the UT/AM rivalry and so I wouldn't presume to tell people in College Station or Austin how it works.

Everyone gets it. You're a McMillan connection/fan. That's great. He's a baller and Bobcat fans love that he's in Bozeman. We hope he never leaves until he's out of eligibility. But your perspective isn't informed by actually knowing anything about the Brawl; it's informed by the fact that you are a McMillan fan first and so you're always going to take the stance that favors him.

His take is the same as mine and I've lived here all my life. I started watching Cat-Griz games in 1973 and went to my first one in 1982. The game is typically won by the better team regardless of where it's played.

1982 was the year of the 3 way tie for conference champion, MSU,um,Idaho.... I think. I remember um snuck in by beating Idaho on "nygrens ride".

[OldGriz]

What I don't think you get is that I'm from Texas....the Cat-Griz game is no bigger than the UT/A$M or UT/OU game. I full well understand the history of the game and understand the hatred vitriol and passion that comes with these types of games. TBH our high school rivalry games are gawd awfully passionate. I do feel it is an advantage to have guys at key positions that aren't from MT because they don't have that emotion that will have them to make mistakes by being overly hyped up. Their approach is little different but still can/has produced great play. Just a different perspective.

No, you don't understand. Because you haven't followed it very long and you haven't experienced it. That's evidenced by your argument that out-of-state players, rather than MT players, are the real key to victory. If you had been following the game for a long time, you would know that isn't true-- this game has a history of defining games by Montana-born players. This is, in large part, because it's smaller and more personal than other, bigger places.

I am not close to the UT/AM rivalry and so I wouldn't presume to tell people in College Station or Austin how it works.

Everyone gets it. You're a McMillan connection/fan. That's great. He's a baller and Bobcat fans love that he's in Bozeman. We hope he never leaves until he's out of eligibility. But your perspective isn't informed by actually knowing anything about the Brawl; it's informed by the fact that you are a McMillan fan first and so you're always going to take the stance that favors him.

His take is the same as mine and I've lived here all my life. I started watching Cat-Griz games in 1973 and went to my first one in 1982. The game is typically won by the better team regardless of where it's played.

1982 was the year of the 3 way tie for conference champion, MSU,um,Idaho.... I think. I remember um snuck in by beating Idaho on "nygrens ride".

The tie-breaker was the fact that Montana beat the Cats and the Vandals in the regular season.

[PortlandCat90]

This thread is getting me pumped up! Good thing we don't have to suit up this weekend if there is a game.....hahaha.....

I've been in Austin 10 years now and always thought there was enormous untapped potential in Texas for MSU, even with all of the universities in Texas. We all know that HS football is King here. The amount of speed in HS here is mind-blowing and I know there are more McMillan/Williams/Johnson athletes for us to take to MSU.

The UT-OU rivalry is huge, as is UT-A&M. There is a lot of emotion there, but I don't see the deep-seeded hatred that Cat-Griz carries. Even decades after playing and attending it remains. It used to be simply due to drawing a line across the state (blurred since the late 80's) but one really grows up being a Cat or a Griz.

I think this year's two biggest advantages over post-Choate Cats teams are (1) Lamson's fiery leadership and (2) the speed and physicality of our DBs.

BBT's take is interesting and I get it. If you want two positions with their heads on correctly, it's the QB and the CB out there on an island. My premonition of the outcome hit me Oz-like when BBT typed "these guys are not worried about Wortham's speed and are actually faster than he is".

The visits from former players are mind-boggling during that week. I can still remember some closed door discussions like it was yesterday.

Here is my Christmas list:
(1) Punt Cover Team plays flawlessly
(2) Minimize turnovers
(3) RTDB
(4) Robin Hauck is limited to single-digit tackles

[MrGoodKat]

What I don't think you get is that I'm from Texas....the Cat-Griz game is no bigger than the UT/A$M or UT/OU game. I full well understand the history of the game and understand the hatred vitriol and passion that comes with these types of games. TBH our high school rivalry games are gawd awfully passionate. I do feel it is an advantage to have guys at key positions that aren't from MT because they don't have that emotion that will have them to make mistakes by being overly hyped up. Their approach is little different but still can/has produced great play. Just a different perspective.

No, you don't understand. Because you haven't followed it very long and you haven't experienced it. That's evidenced by your argument that out-of-state players, rather than MT players, are the real key to victory. If you had been following the game for a long time, you would know that isn't true-- this game has a history of defining games by Montana-born players. This is, in large part, because it's smaller and more personal than other, bigger places.

I am not close to the UT/AM rivalry and so I wouldn't presume to tell people in College Station or Austin how it works.

Everyone gets it. You're a McMillan connection/fan. That's great. He's a baller and Bobcat fans love that he's in Bozeman. We hope he never leaves until he's out of eligibility. But your perspective isn't informed by actually knowing anything about the Brawl; it's informed by the fact that you are a McMillan fan first and so you're always going to take the stance that favors him.

His take is the same as mine and I've lived here all my life. I started watching Cat-Griz games in 1973 and went to my first one in 1982. The game is typically won by the better team regardless of where it's played.

No, The griz were not the better team in '21 (Cats went to the natty and that was their only FCS loss) and the Cats had losing records and were not better in '16 or '17. Those are 3 off the top of my head in just the last decade and I'm sure I could find plenty more. The best team not winning is far from an anomaly.

It's so easy to come up with examples like the ones that you listed that I am rather shocked that Tom even said that.

[MrGoodKat]

First off I never said that the key to victory is out of state players. I said that it could be an actual advantage because they won't get caught up in the emotion of the game. If it came off as me saying that having more OOS players is the key, please accept my apologies as that's not what I'm saying. I simply said having some players at key positions that won't get caught up in the emotion is an advantage. Again never saying they ARE THE KEY to victory.

Oh and I can understand the rivalry. I don't have to be there to understand the passion that goes into this game. The sense of state pride in winning this game. I totally get it and I totally get how important it is for MT players play well in this game and in large part are the key players IN this game. This rivalry again is no bigger than UT/A$M...auburnVSbama.....etc. I totally get it and I still feel that it CAN be an advantage because those few players are less likely to get caught up in the overall emotion of this game because they are removed from the deep rooted history. My perspective has nothing to do with mcmillan, boyd, ross ezekiel williams brock the steeles or any other player that isn't from montana, it comes from being a competitor that has played, coached, or spectated these types of games pretty much my whole life. You don't have to agree that's fine. But again I never said they are the key to victory, I said it could actually be an advantage. That's it

I do think that a close familiarity with the rivalry gives insight on what factors weigh most heavily; not all football rivalries work exactly the same way.

But I appreciate what you're saying. Thanks for clarifying.

[91catAlum]

What I don't think you get is that I'm from Texas....the Cat-Griz game is no bigger than the UT/A$M or UT/OU game. I full well understand the history of the game and understand the hatred vitriol and passion that comes with these types of games. TBH our high school rivalry games are gawd awfully passionate. I do feel it is an advantage to have guys at key positions that aren't from MT because they don't have that emotion that will have them to make mistakes by being overly hyped up. Their approach is little different but still can/has produced great play. Just a different perspective.

No, you don't understand. Because you haven't followed it very long and you haven't experienced it. That's evidenced by your argument that out-of-state players, rather than MT players, are the real key to victory. If you had been following the game for a long time, you would know that isn't true-- this game has a history of defining games by Montana-born players. This is, in large part, because it's smaller and more personal than other, bigger places.

I am not close to the UT/AM rivalry and so I wouldn't presume to tell people in College Station or Austin how it works.

Everyone gets it. You're a McMillan connection/fan. That's great. He's a baller and Bobcat fans love that he's in Bozeman. We hope he never leaves until he's out of eligibility. But your perspective isn't informed by actually knowing anything about the Brawl; it's informed by the fact that you are a McMillan fan first and so you're always going to take the stance that favors him.

His take is the same as mine and I've lived here all my life. I started watching Cat-Griz games in 1973 and went to my first one in 1982. The game is typically won by the better team regardless of where it's played.

No, The griz were not the better team in '21 (Cats went to the natty and that was their only FCS loss) and the Cats had losing records and were not better in '16 or '17. Those are 3 off the top of my head in just the last decade and I'm sure I could find plenty more. The best team not winning is far from an anomaly.

It's so easy to come up with examples like the ones that you listed that I am rather shocked that Tom even said that.

It's really not that easy. Maybe if you comb the annals of history... but over the last decade or two, the only time a heavy underdog (double digit spread) won the game was 2016. The Cats had a better team in 2021 but with the game in missoula it really wasn't a shock that the griz won the game. 2011 would be another you could say the winner was unexpected... That's about it.

The margins of victory lately have been surprising for sure. But the winners of the games, not so much.

[OldGriz]

First off I never said that the key to victory is out of state players. I said that it could be an actual advantage because they won't get caught up in the emotion of the game. If it came off as me saying that having more OOS players is the key, please accept my apologies as that's not what I'm saying. I simply said having some players at key positions that won't get caught up in the emotion is an advantage. Again never saying they ARE THE KEY to victory.

Oh and I can understand the rivalry. I don't have to be there to understand the passion that goes into this game. The sense of state pride in winning this game. I totally get it and I totally get how important it is for MT players play well in this game and in large part are the key players IN this game. This rivalry again is no bigger than UT/A$M...auburnVSbama.....etc. I totally get it and I still feel that it CAN be an advantage because those few players are less likely to get caught up in the overall emotion of this game because they are removed from the deep rooted history. My perspective has nothing to do with mcmillan, boyd, ross ezekiel williams brock the steeles or any other player that isn't from montana, it comes from being a competitor that has played, coached, or spectated these types of games pretty much my whole life. You don't have to agree that's fine. But again I never said they are the key to victory, I said it could actually be an advantage. That's it

I do think that a close familiarity with the rivalry gives insight on what factors weigh most heavily; not all football rivalries work exactly the same way.

But I appreciate what you're saying. Thanks for clarifying.

BobcatBuiltTexan isn’t out in left field on this theory. Texan Clifton McDowell at QB for the Griz dominated the Cats in ‘23, while Tommy Mellott was 4-for-13 with an interception that game. This was after Bobcatnation laughed at McDowell all week leading up to the game for calling the game “the battle of the brawl or whatever.” McDowell, who led Montana to the national championship game that season, made a lot of NIL $$$ off his “battle of the brawl” t-shirts. LOL. McDowell looked comfortable the whole game while Mellott looked scared and stiff. The Texan played better than the Butte boy in that game. BobcatBuiltTexan isn’t too far over his skis.

[Monymony]

First off I never said that the key to victory is out of state players. I said that it could be an actual advantage because they won't get caught up in the emotion of the game. If it came off as me saying that having more OOS players is the key, please accept my apologies as that's not what I'm saying. I simply said having some players at key positions that won't get caught up in the emotion is an advantage. Again never saying they ARE THE KEY to victory.

Oh and I can understand the rivalry. I don't have to be there to understand the passion that goes into this game. The sense of state pride in winning this game. I totally get it and I totally get how important it is for MT players play well in this game and in large part are the key players IN this game. This rivalry again is no bigger than UT/A$M...auburnVSbama.....etc. I totally get it and I still feel that it CAN be an advantage because those few players are less likely to get caught up in the overall emotion of this game because they are removed from the deep rooted history. My perspective has nothing to do with mcmillan, boyd, ross ezekiel williams brock the steeles or any other player that isn't from montana, it comes from being a competitor that has played, coached, or spectated these types of games pretty much my whole life. You don't have to agree that's fine. But again I never said they are the key to victory, I said it could actually be an advantage. That's it

I do think that a close familiarity with the rivalry gives insight on what factors weigh most heavily; not all football rivalries work exactly the same way.

But I appreciate what you're saying. Thanks for clarifying.

BobcatBuiltTexan isn’t out in left field on this theory. Texan Clifton McDowell at QB for the Griz dominated the Cats in ‘23, while Tommy Mellott was 4-for-13 with an interception that game. This was after Bobcatnation laughed at McDowell all week leading up to the game for calling the game “the battle of the brawl or whatever.” McDowell, who led Montana to the national championship game that season, made a lot of NIL $$$ off his “battle of the brawl” t-shirts. LOL. McDowell looked comfortable the whole game while Mellott looked scared and stiff. The Texan played better than the Butte boy in that game. BobcatBuiltTexan isn’t too far over his skis.

There have been 10 Montana natives that have played the game of the career for every one Montana native that plays bad. 2018- the guys who stepped up there were Montanans. Adam Jones last year. You could go on forever about Montanans that have had great games because of their passion, on both sides of the rivalry.

Also I don’t think it was Tommy’s fault he has 4-13, 90% of those balls were 50/50 balls and there were some drops, specifically McCullouch dropped a deep wide open touchdown.

Zero Bobcat fans are against having out of state kids but we can all recognize how massive this game is for the Montana kids and more times than not they make huge plays.

[Joe Bobcat]

First off I never said that the key to victory is out of state players. I said that it could be an actual advantage because they won't get caught up in the emotion of the game. If it came off as me saying that having more OOS players is the key, please accept my apologies as that's not what I'm saying. I simply said having some players at key positions that won't get caught up in the emotion is an advantage. Again never saying they ARE THE KEY to victory.

Oh and I can understand the rivalry. I don't have to be there to understand the passion that goes into this game. The sense of state pride in winning this game. I totally get it and I totally get how important it is for MT players play well in this game and in large part are the key players IN this game. This rivalry again is no bigger than UT/A$M...auburnVSbama.....etc. I totally get it and I still feel that it CAN be an advantage because those few players are less likely to get caught up in the overall emotion of this game because they are removed from the deep rooted history. My perspective has nothing to do with mcmillan, boyd, ross ezekiel williams brock the steeles or any other player that isn't from montana, it comes from being a competitor that has played, coached, or spectated these types of games pretty much my whole life. You don't have to agree that's fine. But again I never said they are the key to victory, I said it could actually be an advantage. That's it

I do think that a close familiarity with the rivalry gives insight on what factors weigh most heavily; not all football rivalries work exactly the same way.

But I appreciate what you're saying. Thanks for clarifying.

BobcatBuiltTexan isn’t out in left field on this theory. Texan Clifton McDowell at QB for the Griz dominated the Cats in ‘23, while Tommy Mellott was 4-for-13 with an interception that game. This was after Bobcatnation laughed at McDowell all week leading up to the game for calling the game “the battle of the brawl or whatever.” McDowell, who led Montana to the national championship game that season, made a lot of NIL $$$ off his “battle of the brawl” t-shirts. LOL. McDowell looked comfortable the whole game while Mellott looked scared and stiff. The Texan played better than the Butte boy in that game. BobcatBuiltTexan isn’t too far over his skis.

As usual oldgriz chooses to cherry pick what suits his agenda. Such a huge sample size you have used too.
Maybe there's something to what BBT has said and maybe not. I have no doubt it applies in some cases but the exact opposite in others. Overall it's too broad brushed for accuracy or reliability. I have little doubt that a thorough study would show it balances out quite evenly. Both good games and bad can be found from in or out of state players as well as heroics and gaffs from both as well.

[ilovethecats]

Totally understand where you're coming from. I think everyone here kind of is proving my point. The amount of emotion that this game brings out isn't foreign to players or to me. But the fact that the Fandom is so passionate which includes MT players it CAN cause problems. I get that you may not give a darn about rivalries anywhere else, but to act like this rivalry is foreign to certain players because they aren't from there just isn't true. Now some players may take a more lax approach,I don't agree with that. You have to know that these games are all bets are off, and I'm saying many of these players do in fact get that. They know how to enter this game knowing what its going to be like but they can separate the emotion of hating the griz from just getting up to play the griz because it IS a big game in the culture up there. THAT is my only point....I may be wrong.... don't think I am as I've been around rivalries and a part of them and seen how things go. But I believe we'll win and I believe all players will take the field KNOWING this is THE game of the regular season.

I can agree with this. What I have seen over the years is that it is a very fine line between the two sides. We had a coach infamously say that Cat/Griz was "just another game". That they would treat that game like every other game on the schedule. And while that coach speak is obviously correct as it is just another game on the schedule; it couldn't be further from the truth. And his mindset that this game or playoff games were no different than the season opener or a midseason game against Weber State is what ultimately got him out of here.

Same goes with the players. There is no doubt that being a little naive about this game can certainly have a player playing more relaxed than others. But as someone that has followed THIS exact rivalry over the years, the ones that treat it like just another game usually come out on the losing end. Coach Choate was a master of teaching his players the importance of this game. I'm hoping Vigen can get there as well.

[catatac]

I really appreciate BBT's knowledge of the game. I'd like to see him diagnose the games in 21 and 23 when the Cats were clearly the better team (like this year), yet went into Missoula and didn't just lose squeakers, but got crushed. Not crushed nearly as bad as the Cats crushed the Griz in 22 and 24 but still crushed. I just want to know how that happens... be it lack of juice, too much juice, not understanding the rivalry, coaching, scheme, etc.

All I can say is it better not happen again, and I don't this it will this year.

[BobcatBuiltTexan]

First off I never said that the key to victory is out of state players. I said that it could be an actual advantage because they won't get caught up in the emotion of the game. If it came off as me saying that having more OOS players is the key, please accept my apologies as that's not what I'm saying. I simply said having some players at key positions that won't get caught up in the emotion is an advantage. Again never saying they ARE THE KEY to victory.

Oh and I can understand the rivalry. I don't have to be there to understand the passion that goes into this game. The sense of state pride in winning this game. I totally get it and I totally get how important it is for MT players play well in this game and in large part are the key players IN this game. This rivalry again is no bigger than UT/A$M...auburnVSbama.....etc. I totally get it and I still feel that it CAN be an advantage because those few players are less likely to get caught up in the overall emotion of this game because they are removed from the deep rooted history. My perspective has nothing to do with mcmillan, boyd, ross ezekiel williams brock the steeles or any other player that isn't from montana, it comes from being a competitor that has played, coached, or spectated these types of games pretty much my whole life. You don't have to agree that's fine. But again I never said they are the key to victory, I said it could actually be an advantage. That's it

I do think that a close familiarity with the rivalry gives insight on what factors weigh most heavily; not all football rivalries work exactly the same way.

But I appreciate what you're saying. Thanks for clarifying.

BobcatBuiltTexan isn’t out in left field on this theory. Texan Clifton McDowell at QB for the Griz dominated the Cats in ‘23, while Tommy Mellott was 4-for-13 with an interception that game. This was after Bobcatnation laughed at McDowell all week leading up to the game for calling the game “the battle of the brawl or whatever.” McDowell, who led Montana to the national championship game that season, made a lot of NIL $$$ off his “battle of the brawl” t-shirts. LOL. McDowell looked comfortable the whole game while Mellott looked scared and stiff. The Texan played better than the Butte boy in that game. BobcatBuiltTexan isn’t too far over his skis.

As usual oldgriz chooses to cherry pick what suits his agenda. Such a huge sample size you have used too.
Maybe there's something to what BBT has said and maybe not. I have no doubt it applies in some cases but the exact opposite in others. Overall it's too broad brushed for accuracy or reliability. I have little doubt that a thorough study would show it balances out quite evenly. Both good games and bad can be found from in or out of state players as well as heroics and gaffs from both as well.

I completely agree. I'm sure that it all evens out in the end and that, as you said, sometimes it swings one way or the other both good and bad. I was literally only giving a different point of view in that I've been a part of HUGE rivalries. I've seen guys that weren't tied to it have big games because they could remove the emotion of the deep rooted history of the game but still respect that it IS a huge game. And I have seen guys that have lived their whole life to play in this game and they play outside their mind and body and it's the best game of their life.

I think people got all in their feelings thinking I was knocking in state players or acting as if this isn't a big game. That couldn't be further from the truth. You NEED those in state players to be able to properly convey the importance of this game. You need your guys that didn't grow up here to take on that level of hate and importance so they are taking it as serious as the in state guys. But I also know, from playing in these types of games, that when you line up against your hated rival and you see that kid you played against in high school that went to that rival high school, or a friend that plays for that rival it brings a different level of emotion out of you and it can some times be bad...it can get you playing out of sorts because you are trying to do too much. Sometimes having a teammate that understands the importance but can reel you back in is needed, and sometimes that comes from guys who don't have the deep rooted connection.....again just another viewpoint.....and so everyone knows I would say the same thing if I were a UT fan and speaking on the red river shootout. sometimes the disconnect can be of benefit, but you still got to respect it and know what it means to BOTH sides and show up accordingly.

[BobcatBuiltTexan]

Totally understand where you're coming from. I think everyone here kind of is proving my point. The amount of emotion that this game brings out isn't foreign to players or to me. But the fact that the Fandom is so passionate which includes MT players it CAN cause problems. I get that you may not give a darn about rivalries anywhere else, but to act like this rivalry is foreign to certain players because they aren't from there just isn't true. Now some players may take a more lax approach,I don't agree with that. You have to know that these games are all bets are off, and I'm saying many of these players do in fact get that. They know how to enter this game knowing what its going to be like but they can separate the emotion of hating the griz from just getting up to play the griz because it IS a big game in the culture up there. THAT is my only point....I may be wrong.... don't think I am as I've been around rivalries and a part of them and seen how things go. But I believe we'll win and I believe all players will take the field KNOWING this is THE game of the regular season.

I can agree with this. What I have seen over the years is that it is a very fine line between the two sides. We had a coach infamously say that Cat/Griz was "just another game". That they would treat that game like every other game on the schedule. And while that coach speak is obviously correct as it is just another game on the schedule; it couldn't be further from the truth. And his mindset that this game or playoff games were no different than the season opener or a midseason game against Weber State is what ultimately got him out of here.

Same goes with the players. There is no doubt that being a little naive about this game can certainly have a player playing more relaxed than others. But as someone that has followed THIS exact rivalry over the years, the ones that treat it like just another game usually come out on the losing end. Coach Choate was a master of teaching his players the importance of this game. I'm hoping Vigen can get there as well.

And I agree with you....you have to know the importance of this game...from the coaches down to the scout team. It has to mean something to you, it can't be just another game. But I also believe that one can approach the game with that level of importance and not get overly tied in because they do have a disconnect because they didn't grow up knowing about this rivalry. As you stated it is a very fine line....I see us showing up and taking this game very seriously. I believe MSU is mentally in playoff mode, win or go home. they will approach these last two games like playoff games where if you lose you go home, which will have them stepping off the bus ready to go. Just my take.

[OldGriz]

First off I never said that the key to victory is out of state players. I said that it could be an actual advantage because they won't get caught up in the emotion of the game. If it came off as me saying that having more OOS players is the key, please accept my apologies as that's not what I'm saying. I simply said having some players at key positions that won't get caught up in the emotion is an advantage. Again never saying they ARE THE KEY to victory.

Oh and I can understand the rivalry. I don't have to be there to understand the passion that goes into this game. The sense of state pride in winning this game. I totally get it and I totally get how important it is for MT players play well in this game and in large part are the key players IN this game. This rivalry again is no bigger than UT/A$M...auburnVSbama.....etc. I totally get it and I still feel that it CAN be an advantage because those few players are less likely to get caught up in the overall emotion of this game because they are removed from the deep rooted history. My perspective has nothing to do with mcmillan, boyd, ross ezekiel williams brock the steeles or any other player that isn't from montana, it comes from being a competitor that has played, coached, or spectated these types of games pretty much my whole life. You don't have to agree that's fine. But again I never said they are the key to victory, I said it could actually be an advantage. That's it

I do think that a close familiarity with the rivalry gives insight on what factors weigh most heavily; not all football rivalries work exactly the same way.

But I appreciate what you're saying. Thanks for clarifying.

BobcatBuiltTexan isn’t out in left field on this theory. Texan Clifton McDowell at QB for the Griz dominated the Cats in ‘23, while Tommy Mellott was 4-for-13 with an interception that game. This was after Bobcatnation laughed at McDowell all week leading up to the game for calling the game “the battle of the brawl or whatever.” McDowell, who led Montana to the national championship game that season, made a lot of NIL $$$ off his “battle of the brawl” t-shirts. LOL. McDowell looked comfortable the whole game while Mellott looked scared and stiff. The Texan played better than the Butte boy in that game. BobcatBuiltTexan isn’t too far over his skis.

As usual oldgriz chooses to cherry pick what suits his agenda. Such a huge sample size you have used too.
Maybe there's something to what BBT has said and maybe not. I have no doubt it applies in some cases but the exact opposite in others. Overall it's too broad brushed for accuracy or reliability. I have little doubt that a thorough study would show it balances out quite evenly. Both good games and bad can be found from in or out of state players as well as heroics and gaffs from both as well.

I didn’t cherry pick anything. Prompted by BobcatBuiltTexan’s remarks, I simply recalled an instance when a lot of Bobcatnation residents predicted that a QB from Texas who verbally bungled the name of the rivalry game would not perform adequately because he was unfamiliar with the rivalry. That’s called an example. It’s not a study. But it sure was funny. The Texas kid won the game, went to the FCS chipper, and made NIL money off the verbal gaffe.

[MrGoodKat]

First off I never said that the key to victory is out of state players. I said that it could be an actual advantage because they won't get caught up in the emotion of the game. If it came off as me saying that having more OOS players is the key, please accept my apologies as that's not what I'm saying. I simply said having some players at key positions that won't get caught up in the emotion is an advantage. Again never saying they ARE THE KEY to victory.

Oh and I can understand the rivalry. I don't have to be there to understand the passion that goes into this game. The sense of state pride in winning this game. I totally get it and I totally get how important it is for MT players play well in this game and in large part are the key players IN this game. This rivalry again is no bigger than UT/A$M...auburnVSbama.....etc. I totally get it and I still feel that it CAN be an advantage because those few players are less likely to get caught up in the overall emotion of this game because they are removed from the deep rooted history. My perspective has nothing to do with mcmillan, boyd, ross ezekiel williams brock the steeles or any other player that isn't from montana, it comes from being a competitor that has played, coached, or spectated these types of games pretty much my whole life. You don't have to agree that's fine. But again I never said they are the key to victory, I said it could actually be an advantage. That's it

I do think that a close familiarity with the rivalry gives insight on what factors weigh most heavily; not all football rivalries work exactly the same way.

But I appreciate what you're saying. Thanks for clarifying.

BobcatBuiltTexan isn’t out in left field on this theory. Texan Clifton McDowell at QB for the Griz dominated the Cats in ‘23, while Tommy Mellott was 4-for-13 with an interception that game. This was after Bobcatnation laughed at McDowell all week leading up to the game for calling the game “the battle of the brawl or whatever.” McDowell, who led Montana to the national championship game that season, made a lot of NIL $$$ off his “battle of the brawl” t-shirts. LOL. McDowell looked comfortable the whole game while Mellott looked scared and stiff. The Texan played better than the Butte boy in that game. BobcatBuiltTexan isn’t too far over his skis.

Yes, there are exceptions to the general rule.

To be fair, McDowell didn’t get uncomfortable about anything. It was part of his charm. And Tommy got tight before virtually all big games. So those aren’t exactly fair examples.

[OldGriz]

First off I never said that the key to victory is out of state players. I said that it could be an actual advantage because they won't get caught up in the emotion of the game. If it came off as me saying that having more OOS players is the key, please accept my apologies as that's not what I'm saying. I simply said having some players at key positions that won't get caught up in the emotion is an advantage. Again never saying they ARE THE KEY to victory.

Oh and I can understand the rivalry. I don't have to be there to understand the passion that goes into this game. The sense of state pride in winning this game. I totally get it and I totally get how important it is for MT players play well in this game and in large part are the key players IN this game. This rivalry again is no bigger than UT/A$M...auburnVSbama.....etc. I totally get it and I still feel that it CAN be an advantage because those few players are less likely to get caught up in the overall emotion of this game because they are removed from the deep rooted history. My perspective has nothing to do with mcmillan, boyd, ross ezekiel williams brock the steeles or any other player that isn't from montana, it comes from being a competitor that has played, coached, or spectated these types of games pretty much my whole life. You don't have to agree that's fine. But again I never said they are the key to victory, I said it could actually be an advantage. That's it

I do think that a close familiarity with the rivalry gives insight on what factors weigh most heavily; not all football rivalries work exactly the same way.

But I appreciate what you're saying. Thanks for clarifying.

BobcatBuiltTexan isn’t out in left field on this theory. Texan Clifton McDowell at QB for the Griz dominated the Cats in ‘23, while Tommy Mellott was 4-for-13 with an interception that game. This was after Bobcatnation laughed at McDowell all week leading up to the game for calling the game “the battle of the brawl or whatever.” McDowell, who led Montana to the national championship game that season, made a lot of NIL $$$ off his “battle of the brawl” t-shirts. LOL. McDowell looked comfortable the whole game while Mellott looked scared and stiff. The Texan played better than the Butte boy in that game. BobcatBuiltTexan isn’t too far over his skis.

Yes, there are exceptions to the general rule.

To be fair, McDowell didn’t get uncomfortable about anything. It was part of his charm. And Tommy got tight before virtually all big games. So those aren’t exactly fair examples.

Not fair examples? You are kind of tossing Tommy under the bus there. You are saying we shouldn’t have expected him to play well because it was a big game?

[MrGoodKat]

Not fair examples? You are kind of tossing Tommy under the bus there. You are saying we shouldn’t have expected him to play well because it was a big game?

I'm saying that Tommy got tight before virtually all big games, so using him as an example that's characteristic of all MT born players isn't really fair.