Sickend by Andrea Yates verdict

[Hell's Bells]

of course prisons and rehab for insane child murderers is a loosing proposition...*snip*

what we have to get real about is what the purpose of prison is. enough with this psycho babble "lets reform the prisoners through the prison system".

1) how exactly is reforming a person when they are tossed in with a bunch of people who will just give them newer ideas about crimes and dont want to help fellow inmates "get better"

2) we should start to think methods of deterrant instead of reforming the criminal mind.


and finally my final point which i stated before


my "give a dam" busted when she killed those 5 kids of hers. i dont care whatsoever about her and would not shed a tear if she "died" while in this hospital. we need to realize that she comitted a major felony x5! these types of people, no matter what shape their mind is in, should never roam the streats again let alone be able to see the light of day again.

[SonomaCat]

what we have to get real about is what the purpose of prison is. enough with this psycho babble "lets reform the prisoners through the prison system".

I'm not sure what to pull from this statement. Are you saying that prison will never reform anyone, and therefore we should not lock people in prison as much as we do and instead find better methods of punishing and reforming people? Or, rather, are you saying that anybody who ends up in prison is unreformable, and essentially just human garbage that we'd be better off disposing of?

[Grizlaw]

what we have to get real about is what the purpose of prison is. enough with this psycho babble "lets reform the prisoners through the prison system".

There have been a lot of interesting law review articles written about this subject, actually (well interesting to me, anyway; I might have a different definition of "interesting" than most people, given that I'm somewhat of a law and policy junkie ). But anyway, to the question of "why do we put people in prison?", there are four basic schools of thought that come to mind:

1. To punish bad conduct;
2. To deter others from committing crimes;
3. To remove dangerous people from society; and
4. To reform people.

So the question is, which of the above is (or should be) the primary purpose of our criminal justice system? I think most people would say that, to some degree, our system should ideally serve all four functions; where people disagree is on which ones are of primary importance. Where you come down on that question will probably have a lot to do with how you feel about this case.

--GL

[SonomaCat]

we need to realize that she comitted a major felony x5! these types of people, no matter what shape their mind is in, should never roam the streats again let alone be able to see the light of day again.

Just as a test, consider this scenario: A soldier in a war zone goes seriously bonkers (insane) and kills some civilians.

People would suggest that the stress of his job and the environment he was in pushed him to a point where he was no longer able to make a good decision about what was right and what was wrong, leading him to make a horrible mistake in murdering innocents.

Do you think, in that situation, the soldier should fully legally responsible for his actions (to the same extent as a serial killer) and should be either executed or locked up forever, or do you think there are circumstances where his defense is valid, and perhaps he can be a productive member of society again with the right therapy, etc.?

[briannell]

it's called Leavenworth for life!!! This is taken VERY seriously. had two soldiers murder wives here at Ft. Lewis they cited combat stress, they went away for life. The first soldier killed wife within 48 hours coming back, they were given NO mental evals prior to returning home. after he killed her he drove to the HQ building turned himeslf in covered in her blood and freaked out. combat stress can make the best person turn irrational in the right situation. I can simply tell you out of the guys leaving in and out of FT. Lewis (because hubby worked with the Psych's) there's not enough field psychcologists for the demand. it's a big problem!!! -- TOTALLY DIFFERENT---than this case

[SonomaCat]

it's called Leavenworth for life!!! This is taken VERY seriously. had two soldiers murder wives here at Ft. Lewis they cited combat stress, they went away for life. The first soldier killed wife within 48 hours coming back, they were given NO mental evals prior to returning home. after he killed her he drove to the HQ building turned himeslf in covered in her blood and freaked out. combat stress can make the best person turn irrational in the right situation. I can simply tell you out of the guys leaving in and out of FT. Lewis (because hubby worked with the Psych's) there's not enough field psychcologists for the demand. it's a big problem!!! -- TOTALLY DIFFERENT---than this case

Why/how is it totally different? Insane is insane, isn't it?

[briannell]

BRAD oh stop stressing on this and GO GET HITCHED ALREADY!!!!!

I WANT PICTURES!!!!!! well at some point I'd like to see Dee's pics I'm sure she'll be lovely ... wouldn't mind seeing how a Winifred boy cleans up either

[Hell's Bells]

we need to realize that she comitted a major felony x5! these types of people, no matter what shape their mind is in, should never roam the streats again let alone be able to see the light of day again.

Just as a test, consider this scenario: A soldier in a war zone goes seriously bonkers (insane) and kills some civilians.

People would suggest that the stress of his job and the environment he was in pushed him to a point where he was no longer able to make a good decision about what was right and what was wrong, leading him to make a horrible mistake in murdering innocents.

Do you think, in that situation, the soldier should fully legally responsible for his actions (to the same extent as a serial killer) and should be either executed or locked up forever, or do you think there are circumstances where his defense is valid, and perhaps he can be a productive member of society again with the right therapy, etc.?

its called a fireing squad....

[SonomaCat]

Okay, I was just making sure that your refusal to apply extenuating circumstances due to mental state was consistent. It appears to be.

I still disgree with you, but I respect your consistency on this point.

[Hell's Bells]

Okay, I was just making sure that your refusal to apply extenuating circumstances due to mental state was consistent. It appears to be.

I still disgree with you, but I respect your consistency on this point.

murder is murder as far as i am concerned

[couloir41]

then white is white and black is black...there are no shades of gray...there are no other ways for you to see the light of day...there is no difference between sunrise and sunset...just light and dark and the rest you forget...

there is no place for debate...no place for dissent...no place to consider that there's more than just your consent...???

the stone age did not end because we ran out of stones...it ended because we decided we would not all be clones...

[SonomaCat]

Okay, I was just making sure that your refusal to apply extenuating circumstances due to mental state was consistent. It appears to be.

I still disgree with you, but I respect your consistency on this point.

murder is murder as far as i am concerned

Then you are anti-war ... and anti-death penalty?