Mini Brawl after Griz / PSU game

lifeloyalsigmsu · Post by **lifeloyalsigmsu** » Mon Feb 27, 2006 4:53 pm

GrizinWashington wrote:
lifeloyalsigmsu wrote:
GrizinWashington wrote:
PapaG wrote:
GrizinWashington wrote: This incident was ALL about PSU. This is what I dislike about boards: people post 1/3 the information to color a situation anyway they want.
So were the incidents at ISU all about ISU? Was Dlouhy forced to grab the back of the Bengal player's shirt?

Take off the blinders. You guys have a rugged team in Missoula. Some may even call them dirty. I don't have a problem with that style of play, but what I do have a problem with is the never-ending excuse making by Griz fans. Rough play and intensity are becoming trademarks for the Griz basketball team. Embrace this or decry it.

Just stop ignoring its existence.
MD's foul was a hard one. Maybe too hard. But that has NOTHING to do with this incident. Did a Griz throw a ball in a player's face after the game was over? Did a Griz throw punches at an opposing player? I embrace this: The Griz get everyone's best shot every game, because everyone wants to beat the Griz. That's great. But it leads to physical play on both sides. Other than MD's foul (which was bad, but hardly the worst thing imaginable) give me one example of anything "dirty" the Griz have done this year. This post should be about how dirty PSU is. Embrace that, because those are the facts.
The facts? So we know a punch was thrown by a PSU player. Of course, since it's the Griz, they did absolutely nothing to instigate it. Nevermind that the griz just lost a game in OT. God forbid that any tempers or emotion might be flaring at the conclusion of the game, especially from the almight griz players.

I couldn't imagine a griz player EVER saying anything derogatory or in frustration when they lose. The PSU player just walked up to the griz player and clocked him right?

I get it, the griz did nothing wrong once again.

Did Matt Dlouhy give that ISU player a concussion because it's just part of the rugged game that the almighty griz play? Let me guess, it wasn't intentional, right?

Coach K was a hard-nosed, extremely competitive player who holds the same philosophy as a coach. I applaud him for that. What's sad is how some of you griz fans (I said "some") are trying to make a case where PSU's team were the only one's who were being dirty. Some of you can't possibly be that obtuse can you?
Have you even READ the article in the Oregonian? The incident started when Neely threw the BB into Criswell's face after the game was over and while Criswell was lying on the ground after diving for a loose ball. Yes, KC reacted by getting into Neely's face, which I think while perhaps not the best move was understandable. Morrison than came over and threw punches at Criswell. LK went to break up the incident and Neely then charged him, which is when the infamous photo was taken. Both Neely and Morrison were ejected (which is somewhat of a joke because the game was over). So, based on the only evidence available, the only action the Griz too to "incite" the incident was KC getting into someone's face after he'd been pelted in the face. Tell me, please. How is this a Griz issue?

My gosh, you're so right. The griz didn't do a thing wrong.

Nope. Never. Impossible.

Why?

They're the griz..............

Some of you guys crack me up.

PapaG · Post by **PapaG** » Mon Feb 27, 2006 4:53 pm

Grizlaw wrote:
PapaG wrote:I think Krysko acted inappropriately in this one instance, but I don't have a problem with his team's style of play or him as a coach in general.

Way to parse my position, though. Frame your argument, gather some out of context quotes, and suddenly I'm convicted as a Krysko hater in the court of Grizlaw. I'm familiar with this.

Out of context quotes? The three posts I quoted were quoted in their entirety; how the hell could they be out of context?

--GL

P.S. As an aside -- you really, really suck at this.

Boy, that will show me! Solid rebuttal, counselor!

I guess I am supposed to ignore that it came from the biggest Griz apologist in this thread.

Grizlaw - Exhibit A of what my general point was regarding the amazing levels of cognitive dissonance I am seeing in the UM fanbase relating to the reality of their style of play versus their own perceptions of it. It is a wonderfully entertaining way to push off work.

Who is ready to level the next ad hominem attack?

Grizlaw · Post by **Grizlaw** » Mon Feb 27, 2006 5:01 pm

PapaG wrote:Who is ready to level the next ad hominem attack?

For the record, you'll notice that I did edit my post to delete that quote from my response. My edit and your response crossed paths, and I apologize for getting personal. I do think you're being ridiculous, but I'm not interesting in arguing over it anymore.

Once again, I'm bowing out of this discussion. Enjoy!

GrizinWashington · Post by **GrizinWashington** » Mon Feb 27, 2006 5:04 pm

LLSN,

I don't know what else I can do but continue to point to evidence from an objective source (the beat writer for the Viks). If that isn't enough to convince you, it's patently obvious I'll never get beyond your I-hate-the-Grizzly" blinders.

PapaG · Post by **PapaG** » Mon Feb 27, 2006 5:11 pm

Grizlaw wrote:
PapaG wrote:Who is ready to level the next ad hominem attack?
For the record, you'll notice that I did edit my post to delete that quote from my response. My edit and your response crossed paths, and I apologize for getting personal. I do think you're being ridiculous, but I'm not interesting in arguing over it anymore.

Once again, I'm bowing out of this discussion. Enjoy!

Of course you think I am being ridiculous. What I am saying challenges the false "Good vs. Evil" construct that some of you Griz fans seem to glom on to when the Griz get involved in ugly incidents.

That said, I really don't think the Griz are a dirty program. They aren't angelic either, however.

Grizlaw · Post by **Grizlaw** » Mon Feb 27, 2006 5:15 pm

PapaG wrote:That said, I really don't think the Griz are a dirty program. They aren't angelic either, however.

I never said they were angellic. In fact, if you actually read my posts, you'll see that I never really even defended them in this incident -- I have acknowledged all along that I don't really know what happened on the court (nor do any of us). My entire role in this debate started when you said that you "lost a lot of respect" for Krysko based on a photograph...and yes, I do think that's ridiculous. That's all.

--GL (bowing out, for real this time)

lifeloyalsigmsu · Post by **lifeloyalsigmsu** » Mon Feb 27, 2006 6:04 pm

GrizinWashington wrote:LLSN,

I don't know what else I can do but continue to point to evidence from an objective source (the beat writer for the Viks). If that isn't enough to convince you, it's patently obvious I'll never get beyond your I-hate-the-Grizzly" blinders.

Well I'm not using the I-hate-the-griz blinders. This is the BobcatNation message board and it's you and a few other apologists trying to provide justification for the incident on our board. Note I haven't faulted either side but I do know that a punch was thrown by PSU first.

You're either blatantly ignoring or not looking into the fact nor reasoning of why a player from the winning team threw a punch AFTER HIS TEAM WON THE GAME. Make no mistake, there's no side that's right in this matter nor justified in the actions. If you can't at least acknowledge that both sides provoked each other (and quit trying to act like the griz players are devoid of any fault), then there's no point of arguing this.

It does take a lot of provocation to throw a punch at an opposing player, at least in my opinion. I'm just using common sense and not using it as an excuse to hate on your perfect ambassadors to the university you support.

GrizinWashington · Post by **GrizinWashington** » Mon Feb 27, 2006 6:23 pm

lifeloyalsigmsu wrote:
GrizinWashington wrote:LLSN,

I don't know what else I can do but continue to point to evidence from an objective source (the beat writer for the Viks). If that isn't enough to convince you, it's patently obvious I'll never get beyond your I-hate-the-Grizzly" blinders.
Well I'm not using the I-hate-the-griz blinders. This is the BobcatNation message board and it's you and a few other apologists trying to provide justification for the incident on our board. Note I haven't faulted either side but I do know that a punch was thrown by PSU first.

You're either blatantly ignoring or not looking into the fact nor reasoning of why a player from the winning team threw a punch AFTER HIS TEAM WON THE GAME. Make no mistake, there's no side that's right in this matter nor justified in the actions. If you can't at least acknowledge that both sides provoked each other (and quit trying to act like the griz players are devoid of any fault), then there's no point of arguing this.

It does take a lot of provocation to throw a punch at an opposing player, at least in my opinion. I'm just using common sense and not using it as an excuse to hate on your perfect ambassadors to the university you support.

I absolutely agree with you that things were said that shouldn't have been and that KC over-reacted to getting beaned in the face. So to that end, I'll agree with you that the Griz were not without some level of culpability. I just don't think any of that suggests the Griz instigating the matter, which is what many posters have insinuated. Getting in someone's face as KC did does not measure up to throwing a ball at someone and certainly isn't equitable to throwing punches.

Post by **SonomaCat** » Mon Feb 27, 2006 6:37 pm

lifeloyalsigmsu wrote:
GrizinWashington wrote:LLSN,

I don't know what else I can do but continue to point to evidence from an objective source (the beat writer for the Viks). If that isn't enough to convince you, it's patently obvious I'll never get beyond your I-hate-the-Grizzly" blinders.
Well I'm not using the I-hate-the-griz blinders. This is the BobcatNation message board and it's you and a few other apologists trying to provide justification for the incident on our board. Note I haven't faulted either side but I do know that a punch was thrown by PSU first.

You're either blatantly ignoring or not looking into the fact nor reasoning of why a player from the winning team threw a punch AFTER HIS TEAM WON THE GAME. Make no mistake, there's no side that's right in this matter nor justified in the actions. If you can't at least acknowledge that both sides provoked each other (and quit trying to act like the griz players are devoid of any fault), then there's no point of arguing this.

It does take a lot of provocation to throw a punch at an opposing player, at least in my opinion. I'm just using common sense and not using it as an excuse to hate on your perfect ambassadors to the university you support.

I still haven't seen anything from anyone who was actually at the game (PSU, UM and press) that suggests any wrongdoing (fault, provocation, etc.) by a Griz player. Were this an MSU player that got punched, my first response certainly wouldn't be to argue that he must have deserved it (or why else would somebody punch him?), even if nobody else suggested that he did.

Although it does sound like the Griz fans that enjoy beating the "MSU fans say bad words" drum are going to either have to mute themselves on that point or never take their kids to a UM men's basketball game for fear that Larry K's vulgarity might "warp their fragile little minds."

whitetrashgriz · Post by **whitetrashgriz** » Mon Feb 27, 2006 6:51 pm

Bay Area Cat wrote:
lifeloyalsigmsu wrote:
GrizinWashington wrote:LLSN,

I don't know what else I can do but continue to point to evidence from an objective source (the beat writer for the Viks). If that isn't enough to convince you, it's patently obvious I'll never get beyond your I-hate-the-Grizzly" blinders.
Well I'm not using the I-hate-the-griz blinders. This is the BobcatNation message board and it's you and a few other apologists trying to provide justification for the incident on our board. Note I haven't faulted either side but I do know that a punch was thrown by PSU first.

You're either blatantly ignoring or not looking into the fact nor reasoning of why a player from the winning team threw a punch AFTER HIS TEAM WON THE GAME. Make no mistake, there's no side that's right in this matter nor justified in the actions. If you can't at least acknowledge that both sides provoked each other (and quit trying to act like the griz players are devoid of any fault), then there's no point of arguing this.

It does take a lot of provocation to throw a punch at an opposing player, at least in my opinion. I'm just using common sense and not using it as an excuse to hate on your perfect ambassadors to the university you support.
I still haven't seen anything from anyone who was actually at the game (PSU, UM and press) that suggests any wrongdoing (fault, provocation, etc.) by a Griz player. Were this an MSU player that got punched, my first response certainly wouldn't be to argue that he must have deserved it (or why else would somebody punch him?), even if nobody else suggested that he did.

Although it does sound like the Griz fans that enjoy beating the "MSU fans say bad words" drum are going to either have to mute themselves on that point or never take their kids to a UM men's basketball game for fear that Larry K's vulgarity might "warp their fragile little minds."

GrizinWashington · Post by **GrizinWashington** » Mon Feb 27, 2006 7:04 pm

Thanks BAC. And this was pretty darn funny:

Although it does sound like the Griz fans that enjoy beating the "MSU fans say bad words" drum are going to either have to mute themselves on that point or never take their kids to a UM men's basketball game for fear that Larry K's vulgarity might "warp their fragile little minds."

GOKATS · Post by **GOKATS** » Mon Feb 27, 2006 7:49 pm

The BSC decision.

http://www.bigskyconf.com/article.asp?articleid=76438

tacoma_griz · Post by **tacoma_griz** » Mon Feb 27, 2006 8:23 pm

grizbeer wrote:
catamaran wrote:All we ever hear from Griz fans is that "we take everybody's best shot". What we never see is why everyone gives it to them. Granted in football its because they have been good for a long time and it is warranted. Their success on the basketball court is fairly nill. Now why would teams bring it extra.....its because for at least a decade the Griz have been known as "dirty"...Just my 2c.
Griz BSC record against:
Team Griz Wins Griz Losses
EWU 26 14
ISU 61 32
MSU 52 46
NAU 49 25
PSU 13 7
Sac 17 4
WSU 43 54

Overall record against BSC teams: 347-261 - 2nd among current BSC teams (WSU 1st)
Overall Record against all teams: 686-509 - 2nd among BSC teams (WSU 1st)
Championship Game record: 22-21 - 2nd in BSC (WSU 1st)
Over the last 15 years (since 1991) The Griz have played in the NCAA tournament 5 times (most in the BSC), and have finished 1st in the regular season 3 times.

Granted that is not as dominating as the football team has been, but still the most NCAA tournament appearances over the last 15 years, and 2nd highest winning percentage in the BSC, with a winning BSC record against every team in the conference except WSU can hardly be considered nil.

cataraman = owned.

mslacat · Post by **mslacat** » Mon Feb 27, 2006 8:50 pm

Kevin Criswell and Portland State senior Josh Neeley will receive letters of concern from Fullerton.

How frick'n lame! Why bother. Do something or sweep it under the rug. What the heck do you do with " letters of concern ". Does Neely file this in his.... gym locker!?! Do the head coaches keep them in their files? If the kid goes pro does it go to the team that drafts him. If I was a senior, and I got one of those with 1 or 2 games left I can tell you Fullerton would not be that happy with me when I mailed it back, with comments attached.

But then again I have authority issues.

grizzh8r · Post by **grizzh8r** » Tue Feb 28, 2006 12:39 am

mslacat wrote:
Kevin Criswell and Portland State senior Josh Neeley will receive letters of concern from Fullerton.
How frick'n lame! Why bother. Do something or sweep it under the rug. What the heck do you do with " letters of concern ". Does Neely file this in his.... gym locker!?! Do the head coaches keep them in their files? If the kid goes pro does it go to the team that drafts him. If I was a senior, and I got one of those with 1 or 2 games left I can tell you Fullerton would not be that happy with me when I mailed it back, with comments attached.

But then again I have authority issues.

NICE! Good points though!

catamaran · Post by **catamaran** » Tue Feb 28, 2006 9:13 am

tacoma_griz wrote:
grizbeer wrote:
catamaran wrote:All we ever hear from Griz fans is that "we take everybody's best shot". What we never see is why everyone gives it to them. Granted in football its because they have been good for a long time and it is warranted. Their success on the basketball court is fairly nill. Now why would teams bring it extra.....its because for at least a decade the Griz have been known as "dirty"...Just my 2c.
Griz BSC record against:
Team Griz Wins Griz Losses
EWU 26 14
ISU 61 32
MSU 52 46
NAU 49 25
PSU 13 7
Sac 17 4
WSU 43 54

Overall record against BSC teams: 347-261 - 2nd among current BSC teams (WSU 1st)
Overall Record against all teams: 686-509 - 2nd among BSC teams (WSU 1st)
Championship Game record: 22-21 - 2nd in BSC (WSU 1st)
Over the last 15 years (since 1991) The Griz have played in the NCAA tournament 5 times (most in the BSC), and have finished 1st in the regular season 3 times.

Granted that is not as dominating as the football team has been, but still the most NCAA tournament appearances over the last 15 years, and 2nd highest winning percentage in the BSC, with a winning BSC record against every team in the conference except WSU can hardly be considered nil.
cataraman = owned.

I'm talking all time, not just he BSC as that is fairly new, like most griz fans

grizbeer · Post by **grizbeer** » Tue Feb 28, 2006 7:02 pm

I just watched the Griz coaches show from Sunday night, and they showed the post game activities - you couldn't really see what happened with the thrown ball, and shove, but the incident with Larry that is in the pictures is shown perfectly - here is what happened:

Larry went on the court to separate players - after the players were separated you see him walking across the court, and then you see his walking over to the PSU coach, who is being (lightly) restrained by Coach Hill. When Larry gets there Coach Hill walks away, and the PSU coach says something to Larry - Larry motions with his arm and says something back to the PSU coach that appears to be "he threw the ball in his face".

The PSU coach then walks off, but PSU #10 had been walking by at the time of their discussion, and turns and walks angrily towards Larry pointing his finger at Larry's chest. Martin (who had been with coach Hill trying to cool off the PSU coach and keep things from escalating) trys to motion #10 away, but he ignores Martin and gets right in Larry's face, and Larry responds.

The argument continues as Larry and the team walk off the court, despite attempts by other PSU players to get #10 to walk away from Larry. Finally another PSU player grabs #10 by the arm and drags him away still jawing at Larry, Larry turns and says something to him and he is right back in Larry's face. When they finally separate it appears they have reached some sort of understanding.

I assume you will be able to get the video from ww.montanagrizzlies.com in a few days, they have all the other Montana Coaches shows up. Go to Men's basketball, Streaming Media, 2005 -2006 Audio/Video but after watching this it will show you how grossly misleading the original picture posted here was, and if after viewing the entire sequence of event you still lose respect for Krysko then I am not sure what would change your mind.

I have to say I have never seen a situation where a team would let a player go after an opposing coach and not one of his coaches steps in to clear him away. It appears some of the PSU players have better sense then the PSU coaches, and it looks to me like Larry did an amazing job to keep his cool when a college sophomore screams and puts his finger in his face.

Ponycat · Post by **Ponycat** » Tue Feb 28, 2006 7:10 pm

I don't blame Larry for protecting his players, but with that said I don't think you can lay any blame on the Portland coaches either. If Larry is out on the court obviously upset (which again I have no problem with) and yelling at a coach he should expect some confrontation. In neither case did cooler heads prevale and unless you were there it's hard for me to understand how you can say one was worse than the other.

Whats worse PSU coaches not restraining there players or a Griz player having to restrain his coach???

I honestly can't say.

Potomac Griz · Post by **Potomac Griz** » Tue Feb 28, 2006 9:44 pm

Bay Area Cat wrote:Not to take sides or anything ... and I enjoy a Griz meltdown as much as the next person ... but what if the PSU players really were responsible for what happened? Has anyone seen a report of anyone suggesting anything different? I saw a link to a PSU message board, but I didn't notice any on-point posts that jumped out at me.

Careful saying that BAC, you may be labeled a Griz sympathizer and lose the respect of PapaG and other posters who would like to blame the Griz for everything wrong with every basketball game

Some of ya guys should really read the article Here and the Big Sky Conference's statement Here and the other accounts of what happened from people were actually at the game....It sure sounds like the whole incident started when PSU's player threw the ball in Criswell's face (or as you cat fans would have it... Criswell's face attacked the ball). After that Criswell was obviously somewhat pissed and most likely had some things to say to Neeley. Seeing this Morrison came over and slugged or tried to slug Criswell (or again..as you cat fans would have it...Criswell attacked his fist).

As for the Coach K picture, watching the video that was shown on the Coach K show Neeley was definitely the aggressor...and doing the majority of the yelling and poking with his finger (or was Krysko's chest attacking Neeley's finger?). Oddly enough (another thing that you cat fans seem to like to forget about) they shook hands later. So yeah..Coach K looked pretty pissed... do you think a coach shouldn't be visibly pissed when one of his players, friends and someone he cares about gets a ball thrown in his face and then slugged? I guess Coach K should have done what Coach Durham would do in that situation right? Just stand there and glare...but not too much.... You guys can keep your glaring oh so scary coach......we'll keep ours who has his players playing like they are actually interested in the game, and who does show some signs of life on the sideline. Out of curiosity, has anyone actually checked Coach Durham for a pulse lately? Are you sure he's not being propped up by something.....or simply made out of wood?

Oh in other Cat News (Seems the best news for the cats lately is anything Other than something involving cat basketball)... the PSU players that were ejected were not ejected for their actions. They were ejected because Matt Martin used a mind control device on them and made them say whatever they said to get ejected. He then devoured a puppy on the bench & kicked a old woman down a flight of stairs. Ya cat fans happy now?

PapaG · Post by **PapaG** » Tue Feb 28, 2006 10:56 pm

Bay Area Cat wrote:
lifeloyalsigmsu wrote:
GrizinWashington wrote:LLSN,

I don't know what else I can do but continue to point to evidence from an objective source (the beat writer for the Viks). If that isn't enough to convince you, it's patently obvious I'll never get beyond your I-hate-the-Grizzly" blinders.
Well I'm not using the I-hate-the-griz blinders. This is the BobcatNation message board and it's you and a few other apologists trying to provide justification for the incident on our board. Note I haven't faulted either side but I do know that a punch was thrown by PSU first.

You're either blatantly ignoring or not looking into the fact nor reasoning of why a player from the winning team threw a punch AFTER HIS TEAM WON THE GAME. Make no mistake, there's no side that's right in this matter nor justified in the actions. If you can't at least acknowledge that both sides provoked each other (and quit trying to act like the griz players are devoid of any fault), then there's no point of arguing this.

It does take a lot of provocation to throw a punch at an opposing player, at least in my opinion. I'm just using common sense and not using it as an excuse to hate on your perfect ambassadors to the university you support.
I still haven't seen anything from anyone who was actually at the game (PSU, UM and press) that suggests any wrongdoing (fault, provocation, etc.) by a Griz player. Were this an MSU player that got punched, my first response certainly wouldn't be to argue that he must have deserved it (or why else would somebody punch him?), even if nobody else suggested that he did.

Although it does sound like the Griz fans that enjoy beating the "MSU fans say bad words" drum are going to either have to mute themselves on that point or never take their kids to a UM men's basketball game for fear that Larry K's vulgarity might "warp their fragile little minds."

I'm pretty sure I never said a Griz player deserved to be punched. What I did say is that this is two ugly incidents involving the Griz in three weeks. Now, some can believe that the Griz are perfect and that ISU and PSU acted violently towards them while WINNING THOSE GAMES. Why? Well, because they are evil kids who must also do physical harm to the mighty, pristine 2nd place Griz. Beating them on the court isn't enough gratification. Or, the contrary opinion is that some of us can see a pattern developing with one team, express our opinions, and subsequently get flamed for commenting on it on what is supposedly the MSU message board.

Do I have to remind people that Gatewood and Murray were called "thugs" for having a little bit of fun with the hokey Altitude player introductions during this year's Cat/Griz telecast? I can only imagine the outrage of Griz fans had they actually been involved in on-field altercations. Of course then their name would be Kerry Mullan, and they would be defending these actions because he was "provoked" by similar plays that weren't called.

Yet losing some respect for Kryskowiak for giving some college kid the red-ass treatment is "ridiculous", as is pointing out the Griz's physical style of play.

The Griz Kool-Aid is potent. Some of it is even seeping through the optic fibers into the BobcatNation servers.