Saint Peters

[BelgradeBobcat]

there’s planes now and you can jump on Southwest Airlines and be in Bozeman in 1-3 hours.

Do y'all think our booming airport has contributed to MSU's gradual improvement in pretty much all our sports? A lot of parents are now just a direct flight away. I certainly think it's been a factor.

[Ilikecats]

South Dakota hammered Baylor. BAYLOR. There is no way SD has a recruiting advantage over MSU?????

USD is about 5 hours from Minneapolis, 4 hours from Des Moines (475k), 2 hours from Omaha (475k). Not exactly areas you think of when you think of big time cities but I think us Montanans really don't understand how isolated Bozeman really is from any major city. I mean what is the closet city above 400k, Boise which is almost 8 hours away? SLC is about 6.5 I suppose.

We seem to have a lot of excuses…… there’s planes now and you can jump on Southwest Airlines and be in Bozeman in 1-3 hours. The problem is we’re good, but not good enough. We have to quit being satisfied with just making the tourney and have to build a program that winning the conference every year is just a way to get to the NCAAs. But the goal is making noise in the tourney, not losing by 40! It’s basketball, not football that requires 50 awesome athletes and zillions of dollars to compete. Build a good program and with 7-9 good basketball players you can make some serious noise in the tourney.

Who do you suppose is satisfied? Certainly not the players. Definitely not the coaches. Not our AD or our president. I know most fans aren't satisfied. Curious where this idea comes from?

Comments on this forum! Take a second and read them. I realize that we are a mid major, but I’m seeing a lot of mid majors doing very well in the tourney. Getting to the dance is ok, but winning some tournament games and moving on has got to be the aspiration every season! I watched Belmont last night in the women’s bracket, I look at South Dakota, I think we all watched St. Peter’s in the mens bracket. You have to ask yourself why not MSU? I’m proud we won the BSC tourney, but I feel this program has the ability to win some games in the big dance. Gonzaga wasn’t always a National Power……they built that program! South Dakota is well …… South Dakota! I can’t believe there’s a city in the whole state of SD as attractive as Bozeman! I think it’s about setting your aspirations as a program and building a plan to achieve them. We have a tremendous airport, so getting teams to sign a contract for a home and away really has a lot of potential. Hard to complain about our horrible women's seeding this year. It wasn’t about the BSC. It’s about playing OOC games early this year and not showing up! We got our butts kicked and kicked bad! I look at the investments Costello is making in our facilities. There’s got to be a return on investment, I’m not sure just winning the conference tournament is going to be enough. It might be time to think about another conference besides the BSC if that’s what holding back our growth! I realize I’m painting a different picture of success than we’re accustomed to…….. but why not MSU?

[ilovethecats]

South Dakota hammered Baylor. BAYLOR. There is no way SD has a recruiting advantage over MSU?????

USD is about 5 hours from Minneapolis, 4 hours from Des Moines (475k), 2 hours from Omaha (475k). Not exactly areas you think of when you think of big time cities but I think us Montanans really don't understand how isolated Bozeman really is from any major city. I mean what is the closet city above 400k, Boise which is almost 8 hours away? SLC is about 6.5 I suppose.

We seem to have a lot of excuses…… there’s planes now and you can jump on Southwest Airlines and be in Bozeman in 1-3 hours. The problem is we’re good, but not good enough. We have to quit being satisfied with just making the tourney and have to build a program that winning the conference every year is just a way to get to the NCAAs. But the goal is making noise in the tourney, not losing by 40! It’s basketball, not football that requires 50 awesome athletes and zillions of dollars to compete. Build a good program and with 7-9 good basketball players you can make some serious noise in the tourney.

Who do you suppose is satisfied? Certainly not the players. Definitely not the coaches. Not our AD or our president. I know most fans aren't satisfied. Curious where this idea comes from?

Comments on this forum! Take a second and read them. I realize that we are a mid major, but I’m seeing a lot of mid majors doing very well in the tourney. Getting to the dance is ok, but winning some tournament games and moving on has got to be the aspiration every season! I watched Belmont last night in the women’s bracket, I look at South Dakota, I think we all watched St. Peter’s in the mens bracket. You have to ask yourself why not MSU? I’m proud we won the BSC tourney, but I feel this program has the ability to win some games in the big dance. Gonzaga wasn’t always a National Power……they built that program! South Dakota is well …… South Dakota! I can’t believe there’s a city in the whole state of SD as attractive as Bozeman! I think it’s about setting your aspirations as a program and building a plan to achieve them. We have a tremendous airport, so getting teams to sign a contract for a home and away really has a lot of potential. Hard to complain about our horrible women's seeding this year. It wasn’t about the BSC. It’s about playing OOC games early this year and not showing up! We got our butts kicked and kicked bad! I look at the investments Costello is making in our facilities. There’s got to be a return on investment, I’m not sure just winning the conference tournament is going to be enough. It might be time to think about another conference besides the BSC if that’s what holding back our growth! I realize I’m painting a different picture of success than we’re accustomed to…….. but why not MSU?

Yes but I think you're missing the point.

Fans giving reasons why MSU isn't Duke or Kentucky isn't being "satisfied" with anything. It's just reality.

Look how hard it is to win the entire tourney. Only a handful of programs have done that in the last 20 years. Just a couple have done it more than once in that same period. Does this mean that all of the other programs are "satisfied" with just making the tourney, or just making the Sweet 16? Of course not. So they work their asses off to get better, land bigger recruits, play more meaningful OOC games, and WIN those games. It's very hard to do.

Go back to the Cats and the Big Sky as a whole. There hasn't been any teams that have had any meaningful success. Sure a team might win a game here and there in the dance. But no prolonged success. Why? Because as hard as it is for the power conferences to maintain success, it's 10X harder for a mid-major to do so for a plethora of reasons. If it wasn't, every single team would be amazing every single year.

People are quick to point to programs like St. Peters and Belmont and the like to prove their point. Why not the Cats? I think that proves my point more than theirs. Did any of these schools that went on a magical run maintain that success? I can't recall any. It's very hard.

The last mid-major I can recall having long-tern success is Gonzaga. They built something there, and success breeds success. They started getting kids they had no chance of getting prior. Then they got more. Today they routinely have top recruiting classes year after year. That's one school. What about the hundreds of other schools? Why would we expect that MSU is more likely to be the next Gonzaga rather than the next "insert any of the 300 universities here"?

This isn't to say it's 100% impossible. If it was none of us would know who Gonzaga is. But it's very unlikely, and very, VERY difficult to do. This is simple reality and the stats back it up. But this in no way means that our program is satisfied. Did you hear coach Sprinkles post-game comments? He couldn't be farther from satisfied. But it takes way more than that. In the end you need a lot of things to build a program that is routinely in the Sweet 16 or beyond. More importantly you need the players. And if you have the answer on how to do that, you could make millions by sharing that info with the 300+ coaches that haven't figured out how to land those guys consistently and make big tourney runs year after year.

[kennethnoisewater]

South Dakota hammered Baylor. BAYLOR. There is no way SD has a recruiting advantage over MSU?????

USD is about 5 hours from Minneapolis, 4 hours from Des Moines (475k), 2 hours from Omaha (475k). Not exactly areas you think of when you think of big time cities but I think us Montanans really don't understand how isolated Bozeman really is from any major city. I mean what is the closet city above 400k, Boise which is almost 8 hours away? SLC is about 6.5 I suppose.

We seem to have a lot of excuses…… there’s planes now and you can jump on Southwest Airlines and be in Bozeman in 1-3 hours. The problem is we’re good, but not good enough. We have to quit being satisfied with just making the tourney and have to build a program that winning the conference every year is just a way to get to the NCAAs. But the goal is making noise in the tourney, not losing by 40! It’s basketball, not football that requires 50 awesome athletes and zillions of dollars to compete. Build a good program and with 7-9 good basketball players you can make some serious noise in the tourney.

Who do you suppose is satisfied? Certainly not the players. Definitely not the coaches. Not our AD or our president. I know most fans aren't satisfied. Curious where this idea comes from?

Comments on this forum! Take a second and read them. I realize that we are a mid major, but I’m seeing a lot of mid majors doing very well in the tourney. Getting to the dance is ok, but winning some tournament games and moving on has got to be the aspiration every season! I watched Belmont last night in the women’s bracket, I look at South Dakota, I think we all watched St. Peter’s in the mens bracket. You have to ask yourself why not MSU? I’m proud we won the BSC tourney, but I feel this program has the ability to win some games in the big dance. Gonzaga wasn’t always a National Power……they built that program! South Dakota is well …… South Dakota! I can’t believe there’s a city in the whole state of SD as attractive as Bozeman! I think it’s about setting your aspirations as a program and building a plan to achieve them. We have a tremendous airport, so getting teams to sign a contract for a home and away really has a lot of potential. Hard to complain about our horrible women's seeding this year. It wasn’t about the BSC. It’s about playing OOC games early this year and not showing up! We got our butts kicked and kicked bad! I look at the investments Costello is making in our facilities. There’s got to be a return on investment, I’m not sure just winning the conference tournament is going to be enough. It might be time to think about another conference besides the BSC if that’s what holding back our growth! I realize I’m painting a different picture of success than we’re accustomed to…….. but why not MSU?

I agree with you, but my comments have mostly been about why I think it hasn't happened yet, as well as a little bit of reasoning why it will be harder than in a lot of other places. In women's basketball the disparity between the top handful of teams and the rest of the country is so vast, so the first step would be to play someone other than a 1-4 seed. So getting up to a 10 or 11 seed would be huge. And while I agree the BSC holds us back a little bit, our women did lose 6 conference games this year--all against non tournament teams, obviously. Go 20-0 in conference games and suddenly I think it's a MUCH better seed. So it's not like the Gonzaga men a few years back where they were rolling through the conference but not getting any good non-conference games. Even with all their sustained success they struggle to get teams to come to Spokane, though that's improving. I guess I'm just saying it's a really long process but one that's well underway. I think we have a lot of people here who think it should happen in a year or two or even five, and I just don't think that's realistic. You're right to compare MSU to South Dakota, but they're a few years ahead of MSU and I do think they have a deeper talent pool in that region. Even with a great airport it's still not easy for a lot of people to get to Bozeman, and when you see the price of hotels that probably factors in as well. Back to South Dakota though, they were 30-2 in 2020...they might have gone deep in the tournament that year if there was one. That year they only lost to #22 Missouri State by 8 and #5 South Carolina by 13. I think MSU is still a ways from that point. Again, I think MSU is still trending in the right direction, and considering we're 7 years out from back-to-back seasons of 15-15, I think that progression is going pretty well.

I'm not saying we should ever be satisfied as programs, but putting into perspective the progress these programs have made is helpful.

[Catlady]

South Dakota hammered Baylor. BAYLOR. There is no way SD has a recruiting advantage over MSU?????

USD is about 5 hours from Minneapolis, 4 hours from Des Moines (475k), 2 hours from Omaha (475k). Not exactly areas you think of when you think of big time cities but I think us Montanans really don't understand how isolated Bozeman really is from any major city. I mean what is the closet city above 400k, Boise which is almost 8 hours away? SLC is about 6.5 I suppose.

We seem to have a lot of excuses…… there’s planes now and you can jump on Southwest Airlines and be in Bozeman in 1-3 hours. The problem is we’re good, but not good enough. We have to quit being satisfied with just making the tourney and have to build a program that winning the conference every year is just a way to get to the NCAAs. But the goal is making noise in the tourney, not losing by 40! It’s basketball, not football that requires 50 awesome athletes and zillions of dollars to compete. Build a good program and with 7-9 good basketball players you can make some serious noise in the tourney.

Who do you suppose is satisfied? Certainly not the players. Definitely not the coaches. Not our AD or our president. I know most fans aren't satisfied. Curious where this idea comes from?

Comments on this forum! Take a second and read them. I realize that we are a mid major, but I’m seeing a lot of mid majors doing very well in the tourney. Getting to the dance is ok, but winning some tournament games and moving on has got to be the aspiration every season! I watched Belmont last night in the women’s bracket, I look at South Dakota, I think we all watched St. Peter’s in the mens bracket. You have to ask yourself why not MSU? I’m proud we won the BSC tourney, but I feel this program has the ability to win some games in the big dance. Gonzaga wasn’t always a National Power……they built that program! South Dakota is well …… South Dakota! I can’t believe there’s a city in the whole state of SD as attractive as Bozeman! I think it’s about setting your aspirations as a program and building a plan to achieve them. We have a tremendous airport, so getting teams to sign a contract for a home and away really has a lot of potential. Hard to complain about our horrible women's seeding this year. It wasn’t about the BSC. It’s about playing OOC games early this year and not showing up! We got our butts kicked and kicked bad! I look at the investments Costello is making in our facilities. There’s got to be a return on investment, I’m not sure just winning the conference tournament is going to be enough. It might be time to think about another conference besides the BSC if that’s what holding back our growth! I realize I’m painting a different picture of success than we’re accustomed to…….. but why not MSU?

I agree with you, but my comments have mostly been about why I think it hasn't happened yet, as well as a little bit of reasoning why it will be harder than in a lot of other places. In women's basketball the disparity between the top handful of teams and the rest of the country is so vast, so the first step would be to play someone other than a 1-4 seed. So getting up to a 10 or 11 seed would be huge. And while I agree the BSC holds us back a little bit, our women did lose 6 conference games this year--all against non tournament teams, obviously. Go 20-0 in conference games and suddenly I think it's a MUCH better seed. So it's not like the Gonzaga men a few years back where they were rolling through the conference but not getting any good non-conference games. Even with all their sustained success they struggle to get teams to come to Spokane, though that's improving. I guess I'm just saying it's a really long process but one that's well underway. I think we have a lot of people here who think it should happen in a year or two or even five, and I just don't think that's realistic. You're right to compare MSU to South Dakota, but they're a few years ahead of MSU and I do think they have a deeper talent pool in that region. Even with a great airport it's still not easy for a lot of people to get to Bozeman, and when you see the price of hotels that probably factors in as well. Back to South Dakota though, they were 30-2 in 2020...they might have gone deep in the tournament that year if there was one. That year they only lost to #22 Missouri State by 8 and #5 South Carolina by 13. I think MSU is still a ways from that point. Again, I think MSU is still trending in the right direction, and considering we're 7 years out from back-to-back seasons of 15-15, I think that progression is going pretty well.

I'm not saying we should ever be satisfied as programs, but putting into perspective the progress these programs have made is helpful.

I’m really liking the vibes! Very happy for South Dakota, but I think the best program in Montana can have the same success! I agree our airport and Southwest Airlines can make a difference!

[Bobcat4Ever]

Wondering what the MBB and WBB need to do in terms of scheduling. It's tough to get elite programs to Bozeman, but it seems we need to see a Non-Conference schedule with Top 25 programs. Coach Bin had Gonzaga and BYU on the schedule this year...the Men will probably have to go on the road to compete against top 25 programs.

If MSU could nab a win in non-conference play against a top 25 program, the Bobcats would improve seeding in the tournament by a notch or two.

Gonzaga is relatively close and there is a chance we could get them to visit Bozeman.
The elite programs have to have some road games. Why not get one of them to Bozeman once in a while. They might see it as an easy road win.

I see it as an opportunity to sellout tickets for an OOC game in Bozeman. Who wouldn't want to go see Duke or North Carolina or Kentucky or Gonzaga play in the fieldhouse?

Does anyone remember the Holiday Classic tournaments, sponsored by Holiday station-stores and others, and the Volleyball fall tournaments? Especially the women got some good talent to come in. I remember Mississippi and I think Oklahoma with Stacey Dales and other basketball teams that really challenged us. The volleyball team had good success, getting the likes of Kansas State (a great match!) and Creighton (national-team class setter) and others (perhaps Arkansas). I enjoyed getting to know the parents of those players and they were always telling me that Bozeman and MSU were a big surprise, one of their favorite tournaments ever, and they hoped they could come back again. I think with the preeminence of Bozeman as a destination (Yellowstone, skiing, etc.) and the myriad airline connections that some able marketer would be able to fill a four-team tournament field as in the past. The VB and MBB and WBB tournaments were our favorite sporting events of the year. What killed them was really the falloff of the three teams as competitive programs. We don’t have that problem anymore!

[grizzh8r]

Wondering what the MBB and WBB need to do in terms of scheduling. It's tough to get elite programs to Bozeman, but it seems we need to see a Non-Conference schedule with Top 25 programs. Coach Bin had Gonzaga and BYU on the schedule this year...the Men will probably have to go on the road to compete against top 25 programs.

If MSU could nab a win in non-conference play against a top 25 program, the Bobcats would improve seeding in the tournament by a notch or two.

Gonzaga is relatively close and there is a chance we could get them to visit Bozeman.
The elite programs have to have some road games. Why not get one of them to Bozeman once in a while. They might see it as an easy road win.

I see it as an opportunity to sellout tickets for an OOC game in Bozeman. Who wouldn't want to go see Duke or North Carolina or Kentucky or Gonzaga play in the fieldhouse?

Does anyone remember the Holiday Classic tournaments, sponsored by Holiday station-stores and others, and the Volleyball fall tournaments? Especially the women got some good talent to come in. I remember Mississippi and I think Oklahoma with Stacey Dales and other basketball teams that really challenged us. The volleyball team had good success, getting the likes of Kansas State (a great match!) and Creighton (national-team class setter) and others (perhaps Arkansas). I enjoyed getting to know the parents of those players and they were always telling me that Bozeman and MSU were a big surprise, one of their favorite tournaments ever, and they hoped they could come back again. I think with the preeminence of Bozeman as a destination (Yellowstone, skiing, etc.) and the myriad airline connections that some able marketer would be able to fill a four-team tournament field as in the past. The VB and MBB and WBB tournaments were our favorite sporting events of the year. What killed them was really the falloff of the three teams as competitive programs. We don’t have that problem anymore!

Yep, I specifically remember on the men's side, Drexel, Iona (in a year after they made the big dance), Northern Illinois, North Dakota State and Mississippi State all visiting for the Holiday tourney. All in a various number of years obviously. It was a fun event.

[MSU01]

Wondering what the MBB and WBB need to do in terms of scheduling. It's tough to get elite programs to Bozeman, but it seems we need to see a Non-Conference schedule with Top 25 programs. Coach Bin had Gonzaga and BYU on the schedule this year...the Men will probably have to go on the road to compete against top 25 programs.

If MSU could nab a win in non-conference play against a top 25 program, the Bobcats would improve seeding in the tournament by a notch or two.

Gonzaga is relatively close and there is a chance we could get them to visit Bozeman.
The elite programs have to have some road games. Why not get one of them to Bozeman once in a while. They might see it as an easy road win.

I see it as an opportunity to sellout tickets for an OOC game in Bozeman. Who wouldn't want to go see Duke or North Carolina or Kentucky or Gonzaga play in the fieldhouse?

MSU's challenge in getting major conference teams to come play in Bozeman is simple, which is that non-conference strength of schedule plays a major factor when the NCAA Tournament Selection Committee is selecting at-large bids (see Wake Forest this year missing the tournament). To put yourself in the best position for an at-large bid you now need to play and win against other good teams in non-conference to get "Quadrant 1" and "Quadrant 2" wins the committee looks at. So for an ACC or SEC team or even Gonzaga to come and play Montana State is pretty much useless for them even if they get their easy road win, kind of like how MSU football beating up on a D-2 team does nothing for their playoff resume. Very little upside if they win and a lot of downside if they have a bad game and lose.

[tetoncat]

But if we get 3 other strong teams they will get 1 good opponent and MSU, if we were to win a game it would help them then. Make it a destination for fans. Ski trip instead of the beach.

[MSU01]

But if we get 3 other strong teams they will get 1 good opponent and MSU, if we were to win a game it would help them then. Make it a destination for fans. Ski trip instead of the beach.

Great idea, although I'm not sure if the likes of Kentucky, North Carolina, and UCLA are putting their schedules together around vacation trips for boosters.

[tetoncat]

Didn't mean the blue bloods. Mountain west had 4 teams in tourney. Get a WCC, MWC, and Summit

[MSU01]

Didn't mean the blue bloods. Mountain west had 4 teams in tourney. Get a WCC, MWC, and Summit

Fair enough. The talk earlier in the thread was about improving MSU's non-conference schedule by attracting elite-level opponents, so that's what I was referring to. Of MSU's 9 D-1 non-conference games this past season 6 of them were against schools from the three conferences you mentioned, so scheduling WCC/MWC/Summit teams in an in-season tournament is fun for us fans but doesn't really move the needle in terms of overall strength of schedule unless you can somehow get Gonzaga.

[tetoncat]

I disagree. Win against teams from top teams in these conferences it will improve seed. If we had beat South Dakota State, New Mexico and Colorado this year we would have been higher.

[TomCat88]

Wondering what the MBB and WBB need to do in terms of scheduling. It's tough to get elite programs to Bozeman, but it seems we need to see a Non-Conference schedule with Top 25 programs. Coach Bin had Gonzaga and BYU on the schedule this year...the Men will probably have to go on the road to compete against top 25 programs.

If MSU could nab a win in non-conference play against a top 25 program, the Bobcats would improve seeding in the tournament by a notch or two.

Gonzaga is relatively close and there is a chance we could get them to visit Bozeman.
The elite programs have to have some road games. Why not get one of them to Bozeman once in a while. They might see it as an easy road win.

I see it as an opportunity to sellout tickets for an OOC game in Bozeman. Who wouldn't want to go see Duke or North Carolina or Kentucky or Gonzaga play in the fieldhouse?

Does anyone remember the Holiday Classic tournaments, sponsored by Holiday station-stores and others, and the Volleyball fall tournaments? Especially the women got some good talent to come in. I remember Mississippi and I think Oklahoma with Stacey Dales and other basketball teams that really challenged us. The volleyball team had good success, getting the likes of Kansas State (a great match!) and Creighton (national-team class setter) and others (perhaps Arkansas). I enjoyed getting to know the parents of those players and they were always telling me that Bozeman and MSU were a big surprise, one of their favorite tournaments ever, and they hoped they could come back again. I think with the preeminence of Bozeman as a destination (Yellowstone, skiing, etc.) and the myriad airline connections that some able marketer would be able to fill a four-team tournament field as in the past. The VB and MBB and WBB tournaments were our favorite sporting events of the year. What killed them was really the falloff of the three teams as competitive programs. We don’t have that problem anymore!

Yep, I specifically remember on the men's side, Drexel, Iona (in a year after they made the big dance), Northern Illinois, North Dakota State and Mississippi State all visiting for the Holiday tourney. All in a various number of years obviously. It was a fun event.

MSU beat Texas Tech in that tournament back in 19??

[Bobcat4Ever]

MSU beat Texas Tech in that tournament back in 19??

Interesting. So they were just taking revenge.

[MSU01]

MSU beat Texas Tech in that tournament back in 19??

MSU hosted and beat Texas Tech in '94 - '95. It wasn't the holiday tournament though, just a non-conference game a week later. It's quite fun to go through those old schedules and see how things have changed since then!

[BelgradeBobcat]

MSU beat Texas Tech in that tournament back in 19??

MSU hosted and beat Texas Tech in '94 - '95. It wasn't the holiday tournament though, just a non-conference game a week later. It's quite fun to go through those old schedules and see how things have changed since then!

I remember that game. Kwesi Coleman went off. I think we beat Texas A&M around then too.

[luckyirishguy25]

On to the Elite 8. Unbelievable run.