Coaching Schmoaching...

1BadBobcat · Post by **1BadBobcat** » Sat Dec 02, 2006 9:13 pm

Hell's Bells wrote:
1BadBobcat wrote:
Hell's Bells wrote:look i think el_g posted somthing like this in a earlier thread but here we go.

look at where the cats were in 1999, 3-8 record, bunch of players quiting and hurt, new coach, new program. and now we are in the second round of the playoffs having a better year then i expected ::yay::

Kramer, Baily are excellent coaches who did very good jobs with what they had (a quarterback that would not get rid of the ball... )

so, until we go somthing like 3-8 again lets stop with the "fire kramer" and "fire baily" bullsh!t
Hate to disagree with you Hell's, but I think Bailey needs to go. I typically don't like to dis our coaches because I absolutely love where Kramer has brought our program. But today was the very first time I have ever watched a Bobcat game and thought to myself that the players played their guts out and the coaches lost the game for us. The refusal to try anything but the roll punt (especially from deep in our own end), the 4th down attempt before the end of the 1st half, the lack of any type of half-time adjustments, the end-around pass from Jefferson (do I need to keep going because I have alot more) just accumulated in helping a very good App State team run the score up on us.
how was it baily' fault that we have had what...5 different starters in the backfield at one time? 4 changes at least at rb and 1 change at qb. did baily hurt tolliver by making him try and catch that td against weber state? all year long hasnt Kramer said that the O is out of sync? i think i know why. you know as well as i do that the o has not been the picture of health all year long. dont blame that on baily. I say that, well since we made it to the second round of the playoffs, lets give him at least one more year.

lets get realistic here and realize where exactly the football team has came from

Yes, we had our fair share of injuries this year, but guess what - so do other teams and yet they seem to be able to game plan for whoever is lined up. Look at the Griz. They many injuries this on both sides of the ball, before the season began, during the season, etc. Using injuries as an excuse is as poor as using weather conditions as an excuse. It's something every time incurs. We're not gonna change your mind about the coaching, evidently, because you have already targeted Rolovich as the reason our offense is out of synch. So much for that team theory, huh?

1BadBobcat · Post by **1BadBobcat** » Sat Dec 02, 2006 9:15 pm

bobcat2, evidently you are a selective reader. Most everyone here has posted props to our team on their achievements, myself included (in fact, you need to read the thread I started).

BobCatFan · Post by **BobCatFan** » Sat Dec 02, 2006 9:22 pm

bobcat2 wrote:
1BadBobcat wrote:
Hell's Bells wrote:look i think el_g posted somthing like this in a earlier thread but here we go.

look at where the cats were in 1999, 3-8 record, bunch of players quiting and hurt, new coach, new program. and now we are in the second round of the playoffs having a better year then i expected ::yay::

Kramer, Baily are excellent coaches who did very good jobs with what they had (a quarterback that would not get rid of the ball... )

so, until we go somthing like 3-8 again lets stop with the "fire kramer" and "fire baily" bullsh!t
Hate to disagree with you Hell's, but I think Bailey needs to go. I typically don't like to dis our coaches because I absolutely love where Kramer has brought our program. But today was the very first time I have ever watched a Bobcat game and thought to myself that the players played their guts out and the coaches lost the game for us. The refusal to try anything but the roll punt (especially from deep in our own end), the 4th down attempt before the end of the 1st half, the lack of any type of half-time adjustments, the end-around pass from Jefferson (do I need to keep going because I have alot more) just accumulated in helping a very good App State team run the score up on us.
You fickle, fickle fans. We lost to the better team tonight, and instead of giving a congrats to our team you blame the loss on coaching. Come on. Good job cats.

The coaches did loss the game. The players do not make stupid calls. The coaches do.

bobcat2 · Post by **bobcat2** » Sat Dec 02, 2006 9:28 pm

1BadBobcat wrote:bobcat2, evidently you are a selective reader. Most everyone here has posted props to our team on their achievements, myself included (in fact, you need to read the thread I started).

Notice how I didn't quote you.

profisme · Post by **profisme** » Sat Dec 02, 2006 9:29 pm

I agree for sure that Bailey's call of the WR reverse pass was absolutely awful. That being said, normally one play doesn't cost the team the game. This time, I think it could have, however Appalachian State was the better team tonight, but there is no way they played with any more heart that our beloved Bobcats.

I think Rolovich had a poor night, but then again, the offensive line didn't do a lot to give him protection early on, so he was hearing size 14 clodhoppers coming after him for the rest of the game. I can't wait to see who comes out of spring and fall ball as the starting QB. I wouldn't be surprised to see Jordan Rasmussen make it as the starter.

Congrats to Appalachian State. You have a great team and there is no doubt why you are the number 1 ranked team in the country.

Congrats to my MSU Bobcats. You played your hearts out through a tumultuous season and showed tonight why we believe so much in you. Enjoy your Christmas holiday and get ready to kick butt next year.

vike_king · Post by **vike_king** » Sat Dec 02, 2006 9:40 pm

When Jefferson released the ball I told my wife and kids that the ball would be intercepted, I knew the play was going bad when he didn't turn upfield and run...........I hated the call.......

but then I watched several major college bowl games and saw several TD's on the same type play, 2 in the SEC championship alone.

In hindsight, if they work, the coaches are brilliant. If the plays fail, and badly, the coaches are idiots.

I would have to say that the coaches made the right calls more often than not this year, they had to for us to get where we were.

Hell's Bells · Post by **Hell's Bells** » Sat Dec 02, 2006 9:44 pm

vike_king wrote:When Jefferson released the ball I told my wife and kids that the ball would be intercepted, I knew the play was going bad when he didn't turn upfield and run...........I hated the call.......

but then I watched several major college bowl games and saw several TD's on the same type play.

In hindsight, if they work, the coaches are brilliant. If the plays fail, and badly, the coaches are idiots.

I would have to say that the coaches made the right calls more often than not this year, they had to for us to get where we were.

GoldandBlack · Post by **GoldandBlack** » Sat Dec 02, 2006 9:50 pm

Kudos from the Southern Conference-

Your guys played tough and with a ton of character today in a hostile environment. We were there ourselves in October.

Congrats on a great year.

Hell's Bells · Post by **Hell's Bells** » Sat Dec 02, 2006 10:00 pm

GoldandBlack wrote:Kudos from the Southern Conference-

Your guys played tough and with a ton of character today in a hostile environment. We were there ourselves in October.

Congrats on a great year.

'

welcome and yes it was a good game until the end

MTBobcatFan · Post by **MTBobcatFan** » Sat Dec 02, 2006 10:26 pm

Momentum is huge in football...in all sports for that matter. I think what hurts the most about that play is the Cats already had momentum on their side. I really felt they were going to tie it up on that drive. They didn't need to do that play. We all know the accuracy of hindsight. If the play had worked, we would have been slapping the hands of every drunk in the bar. What an awesome game and season for our Cats. Congrats!

Ponycat · Post by **Ponycat** » Sun Dec 03, 2006 1:46 pm

vike_king wrote: In hindsight, if they work, the coaches are brilliant. If the plays fail, and badly, the coaches are idiots.

Agreed but why call it with Jefferson when you know they will be watching him closely after getting burned on the reverse earlier.

Dumb call, dumb time to make the call, dumb place on the feild to make the call, and dumb person to call on to try and make the play.

Cat_gld · Post by **Cat_gld** » Sun Dec 03, 2006 2:24 pm

I know the announcers were second-guessing most of the same plays, especially the momentum buster that resulted in a turnover. I tended to agree with them, but then I, like them and many posting on this site, don't have the gut feeling for the level of talent and what might work on any given day and situation. True, Rolo was hanging on to the ball too long and was not finding his go-to receivers when they were open. Same ol scenario. However, they played with a lot of heart against perhaps the best I-AA team they'll face for a while.

All in all, I'm glad to see them where they're at. I've seen where they've been, and this is a whole lot better. Let's just keep moving toward an achievable objective......a national championship in the forseeable future!

Good Job Cats!

WeedKillinCat · Post by **WeedKillinCat** » Sun Dec 03, 2006 6:01 pm

We tried a trick play against either NAU ir Potato State and got a TD out of it...I agree the play changed the game, but what if it worked? Also, the Griz use a fair amount of trickery with some success to keep the opponents guessing...

Cledus · Post by **Cledus** » Sun Dec 03, 2006 6:42 pm

All season I've been a big proponent of trick plays for these reasons --

--Successfully pulling one off completely humiliates the opposition;
--A successful play has a huge effect on the crowd (loud if you're at home and quiet on the road);
--A successful play can provide a mountain of momentum

The flea flicker at NAU and the fake punt when UNC was in Bozeman are the best examples. The fake punt resulted in the crowd erupting and the drive continuing, which ended in a touchdown.

That being said, I think timing and deception are the keys to pulling off a trick play. I tend to agree with Ware that it wasn't needed -- at least at that exact moment.

Another reason to master some trick plays is simply to keep the defense honest. The Cats only tried one screen (that I saw) and pulled a nice gain off it. The draw worked exceptionally well. Both plays worked because the offense had established a pattern of conduct and the defense wasn't expecting them.

If the play had been executed according to plan, everyone would be calling Kramer and Bailey geniuses with guts.

Basically, I think they shouldn't give up on the trick plays. We've gotten more mileage out of them than the roll punt and have had more success than failures with the trickery experiments.

MTBuff · Post by **MTBuff** » Sun Dec 03, 2006 6:56 pm

I think that Bailey and Justin Braun, the strength & conditioning coach position need to be deeply evaluated and time for a change in both!!!! Offensive playcalling cost the Cats in both the Cat-Griz game and the App State game!!! Yes, the end-around pass would have been a good call if successful, but like color-commentator Andre Ware said "why even call the play in the first place - all these trick plays shows that we don't think we can beat you on x's and o's".... Playcalling is also attributed to all the sacks because of the blocking assignments!!

As for the strength & conditioning position - we had wayyyy more than our fair share of injuries and I think that falls back on the S&C coach not getting their bones and muscles in better shape!! Athletes today are fine-tuned machines that need to be well-maintenenced and well-taken care of!! All our injuries leads to the belief that our players are not!!!

Platinumcat · Post by **Platinumcat** » Sun Dec 03, 2006 10:26 pm

MTBuff wrote:I think that Bailey and Justin Braun, the strength & conditioning coach position need to be deeply evaluated and time for a change in both!!!! Offensive playcalling cost the Cats in both the Cat-Griz game and the App State game!!! Yes, the end-around pass would have been a good call if successful, but like color-commentator Andre Ware said "why even call the play in the first place - all these trick plays shows that we don't think we can beat you on x's and o's".... Playcalling is also attributed to all the sacks because of the blocking assignments!!

As for the strength & conditioning position - we had wayyyy more than our fair share of injuries and I think that falls back on the S&C coach not getting their bones and muscles in better shape!! Athletes today are fine-tuned machines that need to be well-maintenenced and well-taken care of!! All our injuries leads to the belief that our players are not!!!

Two responses here to your post:

1) It's very easy to sit and respond to the result of the play as a commentator. Also, while I'm sure Andre has more football knowledge then me, he's in the booth and not on the field which says something right there.

2) I wholeheartedly disagree with you on the strength and conditioning coach comment. Many of the injuries this year were of the ligament type. Most of them were of the knee variety. You could do nothing but work out and all of the muscle in the world won't protect you from those injuries. In fact, the stronger you make a muscle, the more it pulls on ligaments and tendons and the higher potential you then have for injury. Blue and Gold saw the fellas when they reported to Fall camp and he called me to say they were "ripped". Your comment leaves me wondering if this is a casual observation or if you have some real experiences or inside knowledge that leads you to this belief.

Slackjaw · Post by **Slackjaw** » Sun Dec 03, 2006 10:27 pm

Quick Note: A reverse pass is not a call that is solely the offensive coordinator's responsiblility. A play like that gets approved by the head coach before ever getting on the field. That's why you saw it at the start of the 4th. I'm guessing the decision to run it was discussed then.

To call for a coach's head because of it, is pretty lame. Granted, I don't think I would of called it but thats after knowing the result.

Anyway, congrats to the coaches and the team for making it one step closer to the where we would all like to see this program. Here's to avoiding a bad september next year and hosting a couple more playoff games.

catgrad'06 · Post by **catgrad'06** » Mon Dec 04, 2006 2:03 pm

I know i'm new here, but are ya'll really calling for the coaches heads? come on! they took this team to the second round of the playoffs for the first time in 22 years. So ya might disagree with one or two calls, but lets get real.

FiveApples · Post by **FiveApples** » Mon Dec 04, 2006 2:13 pm

vike_king wrote:When Jefferson released the ball I told my wife and kids that the ball would be intercepted, I knew the play was going bad when he didn't turn upfield and run...........I hated the call.......

but then I watched several major college bowl games and saw several TD's on the same type play, 2 in the SEC championship alone.

In hindsight, if they work, the coaches are brilliant. If the plays fail, and badly, the coaches are idiots.

I would have to say that the coaches made the right calls more often than not this year, they had to for us to get where we were.

I agree with this post and a lot of the other posts. Probably not the right time or the right call, but had it worked, there would have been several threads about how we turned the game on the miricle play. Considering they had Jefferson in the backfield as a running back several time throughout the game, to have him pass one off at the last second should have worked (in theory), but it didn't. Oh well. Not going to bitch about it now.

WRT the "fake" punt, it looked to me like it was bobbled and Rolo paniced, then tried to throw thinking he couldn't punt it. I'm not sure it was called that way. Anyone else pick up on that?

AZCAT21 · Post by **AZCAT21** » Mon Dec 04, 2006 2:17 pm

I take responsiblity for that call, i was playing the bobcat fight song on my cell phone when it happened.....

Coaching Schmoaching...

Come on now..