Seriously torn....and looking for help

GOKATS · Post by **GOKATS** » Mon Sep 18, 2006 8:08 pm

Turner Brown wrote:suckit griz, I have made many a post talking about what u just posted. The answer to HelenaCat95 is right under everyones feet. Men there is GOLD in them thar hills and in them low lying plains of MONTANA. Cohesiveness is rooted in MONTANA atheletes, its just that simple. MONTANA boys wont give up or complain about the COLD.

Can't disagree about Montana kids attitude and fortitude, unfortunately there are a limited number that can play at the I-AA level (there is an occasional kid who is genuinely I-A that neither the 'Cats or griz have a shot at). The last few years it has been a pretty even battle between the 'Cats and griz as to which team picks up the Montana guys that are I-AA candidates.

For some reason, I'm thinking your goal is to induce MSU (or dUMb) to lower their standards to put more emphasis on picking up those athletes that are better suited to (and will be more successful at ) playing at a lower division.

I'm talking 'Schollie' athletes only here, and by no means demeaning the Montana kids who 'walk on' either squad hoping to earn a 'schollie'. Both the 'Cats and the griz have had (and do have) walk ons who have been great contributions to the team- sometimes it just takes a player a little longer than HS to ripen.

Post by **kmax** » Mon Sep 18, 2006 8:33 pm

Turner Brown wrote:Go cats i have to disagree with you, there are many kids in Montana that can play 1-AA football we start over 11 MONTANA kids on our team.

And there are 22 starters not counting special teams. So in fact you are saying that UM can win with half Montanans and half from elsewhere. Or do those other 11 not count only at UM?

Post by **kmax** » Mon Sep 18, 2006 9:25 pm

Turner Brown wrote:Look at your last NC team you guys had many more MONTANA BOYS starting in games than you have today or since. Your defense was ladden with MONTANA kids and i was cheering for you against Arkansas St., Rhode Island and Louisiana Tech. It was a fun year and it was rooted on MONTANA boys. Kids from Chester, Choteau, Butte, Miles City, Great Falls, Deer Lodge and i think a few more towns in MONTANA started for the cats that year. I only hope the cats can see the wisdom of this. Point proven.

Good, if you feel your point is proven will you stop talking about it then. Cool, thanks.

1BadBobcat · Post by **1BadBobcat** » Mon Sep 18, 2006 9:37 pm

PapaG wrote:My advice is to enjoy this season for what it already has been...a rollercoaster ride.

My gut tells me this team has a few surprises left in it. There will be more peaks, and there will be more valleys. Until the team can run the football consistently, that's the reality.

I have to chalk up this Davis effort to a Chadron hangover. Not the loss, because Davis flat-out kicked the Bobcat's butts, but the effort. I trust we won't see another effort that pitiful the rest of the season.

We can't afford any more valleys, or this season is over.

suckitgriz · Post by **suckitgriz** » Mon Sep 18, 2006 9:40 pm

Turner Brown wrote:Is my point true or not???

Turner- I was not referring to MT kids being the only answser- I simply said there were a bunch of players that did not want to be there...don't mix it up. I would like to see more MT kids, but I will take talent and heart wherever it comes from. If a kid plays hard and developes a love for MT and the Bobcats, I don't give a damn where he comes from.

bozbobcat · Post by **bozbobcat** » Mon Sep 18, 2006 9:52 pm

I think more Montana players would be nice, but I believe that more four year players is the best solution for Bobcat football. We have seen too many two-year guys come in and play below expectations. And two years doesn't give time for player development and team chemistry development. Instead of going for the quick fix, maybe the Bobcats' best strategy is to develop a core of recruits into long-term players. This is especially a problem at the wide receiver position. Travis Lulay and Ryan Force are not from Montana, but look what they have done for the program in recent years. A guy like Scott Turnquist would be a great asset to this team right now. To sum it up, I think developing four year players is the best way to go. I think having that long-term time in the program will help players develop a sense of what it means to play for the Montana State Bobcats and give rise to some leaders.

couloir41 · Post by **couloir41** » Mon Sep 18, 2006 9:55 pm

mr. brown...

just because there is a significant number of montana kids on a team does not guarantee continuity...there are a lot of factors that contribute to a "continuity"...in fact i argue that if the "montana continuity factor" can be misinterpreted for perhaps a form of bigotry by non-montnana teamates and have a divisive affect on the team...depending on how the personality of each team member meshes to achieve cohesiveness...and how a coaching staff molds and develops each player to fill a specific role...

the trick for any coach particularly in montana is to build a cohesive unit of men from a very diverse background...family of origin and region...and many other factors...

certainly there are kids from east los angeles that are better athletes...smarter athletes and athletes that are more prepared and determined to win than most montana athletes...

i have lived in a lot of different places and have decided that montana kids are just like kids from the bayou...or new jersey...same will to succeed...etc...maybe they were raised differently and played stick ball instead of going horse back riding but they are pretty much the same...to say in this case that montana athletes are in some way responsible for the success or some x factor of continuity that singularly makes the griz program successful is just not some thing you can prove...

also i have seen montana athletes quit on more than one coach...

by the way i am a third or forth or fifth generation montana guy...but who really cares...ok i am finished rambling now...mo

theblackgecko · Post by **theblackgecko** » Mon Sep 18, 2006 10:29 pm

PapaG wrote:My advice is to enjoy this season for what it already has been...a rollercoaster ride.

My gut tells me this team has a few surprises left in it. There will be more peaks, and there will be more valleys. Until the team can run the football consistently, that's the reality.

I have to chalk up this Davis effort to a Chadron hangover. Not the loss, because Davis flat-out kicked the Bobcat's butts, but the effort. I trust we won't see another effort that pitiful the rest of the season.

At the end of the day, peaks and valleys is a miserable way to play. Just as an example, find the last time a Big Sky conference team beat the Grizzles (always qualifies as a peak) and then went on to win a I-AA playoff game in the same season.

Maybe it's time to take the great philosophy, "win or lose, we still booze." It works wonders.

suckitgriz · Post by **suckitgriz** » Mon Sep 18, 2006 11:01 pm

Turner Brown wrote:bozbobcat: MONTANA PLAYERS ARE 4 YEAR PLAYERS!! Do i have to spell everything out! 4 YEAR MONTANA PLAYERS WILL GIVE YOU CONTINUATY!!!!

Couloir4: I have mentioned how some out of staters have to come in to make a successful program, but they have to have a MONTANA type mentality. Ie: Travis Lulay ia a GREAT case in point. As for my thoughts being rooted in BIGOTRY is completely absurd!!!! If you only Knew what color i am and where i have come from, you would CHOKE on your words! So dont give me that BS.!!! I have been in 49 states and have seen alot more than you will ever see and i am telling you from past Cats success in their last NC they had most of their starters from Montana. And the Griz have used that same mentality of using MONTANA kids for success for the past 15 years. INCLUDING BLACK MONTANA ATHELETES, WHO HAVE STARTED!!!!! Why cant any one in BN tell me this is TRUE, IS there to much pride blinding the truth!

I told you, you make some decent points, but I will take any athlete, from anywhere, anytime as long as they have the heart. The ones that have the heart also find a love for MT and MSU. I don't think that this takes all MT kids. MT kids know what it is to play for MSU or the other school because they grew up here, but that isn't saying that an out-of-state kid cannot find the same passion for their university.

liqud360 · Post by **liqud360** » Tue Sep 19, 2006 4:18 am

The more I read about the black cloud hanging over this team, the more I'm begining to think that not much good is going to come of it. Some of the players in trouble with the law, the cavalier attitudes on the sidelines, etc. I'm really getting a sick feeling in my stomach from the posts I'm reading, I'm worried for our football program and its future.

cat92 · Post by **cat92** » Wed Sep 20, 2006 12:31 am

I agree about the black cloud. I hear the players are disgruntled.

Five8 · Post by **Five8** » Wed Sep 20, 2006 1:01 am

I agree with suckitgriz

Football is about heart. yes it does matter how big or strong your are but i'll take a player who won't quit ANY Fing DAY....when you win or lose games, if you gave it all you got you feel it deep in your heart.

I also think your mentality has alot to do with it. That's something i don't see when i'm above the players during the games.
Im waiting for the next playmaker! Someone needs to step up and make plays.

We lack the swager and pride. I hope they come out with both this week.

Because i'm gonna flip if I see EWU celebrating in my house again!