FIRE EVERYONE!

[gris_h8er]

Can we just fire Vigen and call it a night? That was too exhausting to find a whole new coaching staff tonight.

Vigen is not the problem lol

Please do elaborate Mr. Madden

You have eyes. This is either the first game you've watched or you're just another emotional clown arguing in bad faith.
Go to bed and come back later.

You’re right. I saw:
1) playing for a field goal at half time
2) miscues, fumbles and blocked punts and 12 men on the field
3) a new offensive coordinator and the same suspect and unexplainable play calls
4) inconsistent play
5) talented kids as always. (He recruits well) but they’re not sharp, seem unprepared.

So who is to blame for those things? Things which we regularly see from Vigen coached teams. Who is the boogeyman that keeps thwarting the coaching genius that is Brent Vigen?

#1 has been consistent through Vigens career. It's not ever going to change. Its got him to a 79% win percentage with the Cats, 2 natties, a few semis, and a bunch of wins at NDSU

2). Correct. Totally unacceptable. Really boggles the mind.

3) Yes

4) I think thats to be expected 2 games in with new co-ordinator, QB, etc. Vigen has a history of getting these things cleaned up as the season goes on.

5) Except in the 80% of games that Vigen wins.

1) losses close games, see Idaho two years ago and tonight
3) has to be Vigen
4) isn’t the point of practice and the team arriving before classes so they’re prepared for games? Oregon doesn’t count. Outlier and irrelevant. SDSU tonight was sloppy and has to be someone’s fault
5) I’m worried about the 20% he doesn’t win. Let’s get it to 95% and then I’ll shut up about the vegetablist.

OK...where exactly are you going to find a coach that wins 95% of games?

Here it is again. “This is good enough cause they’re the cats and they’ve been bad before” that is not an acceptable reason. I don’t understand why so many of our fan base accepts almost just because there have been some bad seasons in the past. That fan mentality is nearly as infuriating as Vigen’s almost good enough, almost prepared, almost beat a good team coaching style.

[MinnesotaBobcat]

MSU, SDSU and NDSU are in lock step with each other. The deciding factor when they play other each is randomness. Since 2021, MSU is 1-5 with four losses by miniscule fractions. SDSU is up on NDSU 4-2, but four games have been decided by a TD or less. The only blowouts were by SDSU over NDSU in 2023, when NDSU was down a tad, SDSU over MSU in 2022 and MSU knew its lines weren't ready for prime time. NDSU over MSU in 2021 when Mellott went out on the first series. Other than that, it's just a knockdown, drag out fight. Especially since the start of 2023 when MSU actually caught up physically. No other teams are in the same ballpark.

You can flip a coin, and it'll come up heads 10 times in a row sometimes, and that's kinda what's happening to MSU. There's not guarantee it won't be 20.

SDSU is 7-2, NDSU is 5-4, MSU is 1-5. All three of them blow everyone's doors off unless they're just having a bad day. The eight contestants in the last four title games have been those three teams 7 times. The Griz had a good defense and Bergen and it got them in the title game, but they didn't make a semifinal other than that year. Out of 12 possible chances MSU, NDSU and SDSU have been in the semifinals 10 times the last four years.

All MSU can do is keep chopping wood or as Julius Davis said, keep heading into the storm and don't look back.

They all play the same style of football. It's no big secret to each other when they get on the field.

This narrative that msu is in the same conversation as the DSU’s is baffling. They aren’t. The whole program is a step behind.

I disagree. I’ve found it frustrating that that the Cats keep losing very winnable games the last 4 games against the DSU’s. There’s just really no gap between these teams, and the games all could have gone the other way had one play gone differently.

[catscat]

My take - SDSU learned more in their game against Sac than we did against Oregon. The Oregon game didn't show how great the difference between Tommy and Lamson as runners really is/was. There were plays where Lamson got 4 yards and Tommy would have gotten 20 because Tommy would run around a tackler and Lamson ran right into them. I, and maybe others, underestimated Sac cuz they were 3-9 last year. Yesterday they nearly beat Nevada.

ST - covered by others. Nuf said.

Defense - still young and developing. Let some receivers go uncovered. Otherwise pretty stout.

[allcat]

It didn't look like they really were running an option. It was either calling a QB run or an RB run. Have we given up the option?

[msuhunter]

MSU, SDSU and NDSU are in lock step with each other. The deciding factor when they play other each is randomness. Since 2021, MSU is 1-5 with four losses by miniscule fractions. SDSU is up on NDSU 4-2, but four games have been decided by a TD or less. The only blowouts were by SDSU over NDSU in 2023, when NDSU was down a tad, SDSU over MSU in 2022 and MSU knew its lines weren't ready for prime time. NDSU over MSU in 2021 when Mellott went out on the first series. Other than that, it's just a knockdown, drag out fight. Especially since the start of 2023 when MSU actually caught up physically. No other teams are in the same ballpark.

You can flip a coin, and it'll come up heads 10 times in a row sometimes, and that's kinda what's happening to MSU. There's not guarantee it won't be 20.

SDSU is 7-2, NDSU is 5-4, MSU is 1-5. All three of them blow everyone's doors off unless they're just having a bad day. The eight contestants in the last four title games have been those three teams 7 times. The Griz had a good defense and Bergen and it got them in the title game, but they didn't make a semifinal other than that year. Out of 12 possible chances MSU, NDSU and SDSU have been in the semifinals 10 times the last four years.

All MSU can do is keep chopping wood or as Julius Davis said, keep heading into the storm and don't look back.

They all play the same style of football. It's no big secret to each other when they get on the field.

To say MSU is in “lock step” with the Dakotas is a wild take. The stats, the eye test, and the results don’t support that.


MSU has closed the gap in recent years, but we’re still running to catch the bus that’s pulling away

[msuhunter]

Can we just fire Vigen and call it a night? That was too exhausting to find a whole new coaching staff tonight.

Vigen is not the problem lol

Please do elaborate Mr. Madden

You have eyes. This is either the first game you've watched or you're just another emotional clown arguing in bad faith.
Go to bed and come back later.

You’re right. I saw:
1) playing for a field goal at half time
2) miscues, fumbles and blocked punts and 12 men on the field
3) a new offensive coordinator and the same suspect and unexplainable play calls
4) inconsistent play
5) talented kids as always. (He recruits well) but they’re not sharp, seem unprepared.

So who is to blame for those things? Things which we regularly see from Vigen coached teams. Who is the boogeyman that keeps thwarting the coaching genius that is Brent Vigen?

#1 has been consistent through Vigens career. It's not ever going to change. Its got him to a 79% win percentage with the Cats, 2 natties, a few semis, and a bunch of wins at NDSU

2). Correct. Totally unacceptable. Really boggles the mind.

3) Yes

4) I think thats to be expected 2 games in with new co-ordinator, QB, etc. Vigen has a history of getting these things cleaned up as the season goes on.

5) Except in the 80% of games that Vigen wins.

1) losses close games, see Idaho two years ago and tonight
3) has to be Vigen
4) isn’t the point of practice and the team arriving before classes so they’re prepared for games? Oregon doesn’t count. Outlier and irrelevant. SDSU tonight was sloppy and has to be someone’s fault
5) I’m worried about the 20% he doesn’t win. Let’s get it to 95% and then I’ll shut up about the vegetablist.

OK...where exactly are you going to find a coach that wins 95% of games?

Here it is again. “This is good enough cause they’re the cats and they’ve been bad before” that is not an acceptable reason. I don’t understand why so many of our fan base accepts almost just because there have been some bad seasons in the past. That fan mentality is nearly as infuriating as Vigen’s almost good enough, almost prepared, almost beat a good team coaching style.

Complacency kills success. The mindset you describe seems to have a grip on the program as a whole, and that’s culturally problematic.

[TomCat88]

MSU, SDSU and NDSU are in lock step with each other. The deciding factor when they play other each is randomness. Since 2021, MSU is 1-5 with four losses by miniscule fractions. SDSU is up on NDSU 4-2, but four games have been decided by a TD or less. The only blowouts were by SDSU over NDSU in 2023, when NDSU was down a tad, SDSU over MSU in 2022 and MSU knew its lines weren't ready for prime time. NDSU over MSU in 2021 when Mellott went out on the first series. Other than that, it's just a knockdown, drag out fight. Especially since the start of 2023 when MSU actually caught up physically. No other teams are in the same ballpark.

You can flip a coin, and it'll come up heads 10 times in a row sometimes, and that's kinda what's happening to MSU. There's not guarantee it won't be 20.

SDSU is 7-2, NDSU is 5-4, MSU is 1-5. All three of them blow everyone's doors off unless they're just having a bad day. The eight contestants in the last four title games have been those three teams 7 times. The Griz had a good defense and Bergen and it got them in the title game, but they didn't make a semifinal other than that year. Out of 12 possible chances MSU, NDSU and SDSU have been in the semifinals 10 times the last four years.

All MSU can do is keep chopping wood or as Julius Davis said, keep heading into the storm and don't look back.

They all play the same style of football. It's no big secret to each other when they get on the field.

This narrative that msu is in the same conversation as the DSU’s is baffling. They aren’t. The whole program is a step behind.

That's like saying heads is better than tails. And I think if you really thought that you'd be so proud of your analytical abilities that you'd have details and receipts. Maybe you do and you want to spring them on us?

MSU -- to a man -- announced to the world after losing in Brookings in 2022 that they knew they weren't as physically strong as SDSU (and by inference NDSU). They set about solving that part of the problem and two games (about 8 months) later they went toe-to-toe physically and proved that they were on the same page. The difference between MSU and SDSU was probably just seasoning at that point. The Cats squandered a couple games after that but then put perhaps the best team in school history on the field in 2024. They, like SDSU, physically beat teams up and out-talented everyone they played, except USD, who they beat, and NDSU.

NDSU re-programmed FCS football in 2010/2011 and no one caught on for about six years until SDSU started developing its team in the same fashion as the Bison. Still, it took them five years to finally breakthrough and win a championship. They were in the semis in 2017, the title in 2018 (lost to NDSU). Their 2019 season was a lot like MSU's 2023 season. They lost four regular season games by 7 to Minnesota, 7 to NDSU, 9 to ISU, 3 to USD and in the playoffs to N. Iowa by 3. In 2020, they played for the title but lost their QB (like Mellott in 2021) early and lost to SHSU. In 2021, they lost to MSU in the semis. Finally, in 2022 they broke through and again in 2023. They were in the semis again last year.

The Jacks, like the Bobcats are in the process of, paid their dues. They had to be thinking when are we going to knock down that wall. It was only a matter of time, yet they didn't move past NDSU, they just joined them, and they know that they have to go through the Bison to win a title, and if you heard them talk after last night's game, they know they have to get by MSU also.

Please thrall me with your acumen on how the entire MSU football program is a step behind those two.

[gris_h8er]

Can we just fire Vigen and call it a night? That was too exhausting to find a whole new coaching staff tonight.

Vigen is not the problem lol

Please do elaborate Mr. Madden

You have eyes. This is either the first game you've watched or you're just another emotional clown arguing in bad faith.
Go to bed and come back later.

You’re right. I saw:
1) playing for a field goal at half time
2) miscues, fumbles and blocked punts and 12 men on the field
3) a new offensive coordinator and the same suspect and unexplainable play calls
4) inconsistent play
5) talented kids as always. (He recruits well) but they’re not sharp, seem unprepared.

So who is to blame for those things? Things which we regularly see from Vigen coached teams. Who is the boogeyman that keeps thwarting the coaching genius that is Brent Vigen?

#1 has been consistent through Vigens career. It's not ever going to change. Its got him to a 79% win percentage with the Cats, 2 natties, a few semis, and a bunch of wins at NDSU

2). Correct. Totally unacceptable. Really boggles the mind.

3) Yes

4) I think thats to be expected 2 games in with new co-ordinator, QB, etc. Vigen has a history of getting these things cleaned up as the season goes on.

5) Except in the 80% of games that Vigen wins.

1) losses close games, see Idaho two years ago and tonight
3) has to be Vigen
4) isn’t the point of practice and the team arriving before classes so they’re prepared for games? Oregon doesn’t count. Outlier and irrelevant. SDSU tonight was sloppy and has to be someone’s fault
5) I’m worried about the 20% he doesn’t win. Let’s get it to 95% and then I’ll shut up about the vegetablist.

OK...where exactly are you going to find a coach that wins 95% of games?

Here it is again. “This is good enough cause they’re the cats and they’ve been bad before” that is not an acceptable reason. I don’t understand why so many of our fan base accepts almost just because there have been some bad seasons in the past. That fan mentality is nearly as infuriating as Vigen’s almost good enough, almost prepared, almost beat a good team coaching style.

Complacency kills success. The mindset you describe seems to have a grip on the program as a whole, and that’s culturally problematic.

Culture runs downhill.

There are those that disagree but I see a problem and it’s not a new one. It is one that has plagued the vegetablist and Ash. Sure looks the be a culture/attitude problem. There’s no reason the Cats can’t be better and improve (beat the gris and dsu consistently) with the money that has been put into the program, the talent on the roster and the largest university in the state behind them. We take academics seriously, never had a prof say “that was almost good enough here’s an A” so why does Vigen get that courtesy?

[SparkCat]

Can we just fire Vigen and call it a night? That was too exhausting to find a whole new coaching staff tonight.

Vigen is not the problem lol

Please do elaborate Mr. Madden

You have eyes. This is either the first game you've watched or you're just another emotional clown arguing in bad faith.
Go to bed and come back later.

You’re right. I saw:
1) playing for a field goal at half time
2) miscues, fumbles and blocked punts and 12 men on the field
3) a new offensive coordinator and the same suspect and unexplainable play calls
4) inconsistent play
5) talented kids as always. (He recruits well) but they’re not sharp, seem unprepared.

So who is to blame for those things? Things which we regularly see from Vigen coached teams. Who is the boogeyman that keeps thwarting the coaching genius that is Brent Vigen?

#1 has been consistent through Vigens career. It's not ever going to change. Its got him to a 79% win percentage with the Cats, 2 natties, a few semis, and a bunch of wins at NDSU

2). Correct. Totally unacceptable. Really boggles the mind.

3) Yes

4) I think thats to be expected 2 games in with new co-ordinator, QB, etc. Vigen has a history of getting these things cleaned up as the season goes on.

5) Except in the 80% of games that Vigen wins.

1) losses close games, see Idaho two years ago and tonight
3) has to be Vigen
4) isn’t the point of practice and the team arriving before classes so they’re prepared for games? Oregon doesn’t count. Outlier and irrelevant. SDSU tonight was sloppy and has to be someone’s fault
5) I’m worried about the 20% he doesn’t win. Let’s get it to 95% and then I’ll shut up about the vegetablist.

OK...where exactly are you going to find a coach that wins 95% of games?

Here it is again. “This is good enough cause they’re the cats and they’ve been bad before” that is not an acceptable reason. I don’t understand why so many of our fan base accepts almost just because there have been some bad seasons in the past. That fan mentality is nearly as infuriating as Vigen’s almost good enough, almost prepared, almost beat a good team coaching style.

Complacency kills success. The mindset you describe seems to have a grip on the program as a whole, and that’s culturally problematic.

I also don’t get why a few posters on here are entitled and act like the program owes them a championship. Some of you live in a fantasy world. Next time there is a job opening some of you should apply.

[gris_h8er]

MSU, SDSU and NDSU are in lock step with each other. The deciding factor when they play other each is randomness. Since 2021, MSU is 1-5 with four losses by miniscule fractions. SDSU is up on NDSU 4-2, but four games have been decided by a TD or less. The only blowouts were by SDSU over NDSU in 2023, when NDSU was down a tad, SDSU over MSU in 2022 and MSU knew its lines weren't ready for prime time. NDSU over MSU in 2021 when Mellott went out on the first series. Other than that, it's just a knockdown, drag out fight. Especially since the start of 2023 when MSU actually caught up physically. No other teams are in the same ballpark.

You can flip a coin, and it'll come up heads 10 times in a row sometimes, and that's kinda what's happening to MSU. There's not guarantee it won't be 20.

SDSU is 7-2, NDSU is 5-4, MSU is 1-5. All three of them blow everyone's doors off unless they're just having a bad day. The eight contestants in the last four title games have been those three teams 7 times. The Griz had a good defense and Bergen and it got them in the title game, but they didn't make a semifinal other than that year. Out of 12 possible chances MSU, NDSU and SDSU have been in the semifinals 10 times the last four years.

All MSU can do is keep chopping wood or as Julius Davis said, keep heading into the storm and don't look back.

They all play the same style of football. It's no big secret to each other when they get on the field.

Saying that the loss last night was “like flipping a coin” “it could come up heads 10 times in a row” is delusional and disingenuous. Saying that a victory over the DSU schools is purely up to chance might be one of the worst college football analysis I’ve ever seen. If you’re consistently losing to a group of teams or team you’re doing something wrong. I’m not guaranteeing that I know the right answer but I know something is wrong. Anyone gifted with the ability to observe and basic deduction can figure that out.

[TomCat88]

MSU, SDSU and NDSU are in lock step with each other. The deciding factor when they play other each is randomness. Since 2021, MSU is 1-5 with four losses by miniscule fractions. SDSU is up on NDSU 4-2, but four games have been decided by a TD or less. The only blowouts were by SDSU over NDSU in 2023, when NDSU was down a tad, SDSU over MSU in 2022 and MSU knew its lines weren't ready for prime time. NDSU over MSU in 2021 when Mellott went out on the first series. Other than that, it's just a knockdown, drag out fight. Especially since the start of 2023 when MSU actually caught up physically. No other teams are in the same ballpark.

You can flip a coin, and it'll come up heads 10 times in a row sometimes, and that's kinda what's happening to MSU. There's not guarantee it won't be 20.

SDSU is 7-2, NDSU is 5-4, MSU is 1-5. All three of them blow everyone's doors off unless they're just having a bad day. The eight contestants in the last four title games have been those three teams 7 times. The Griz had a good defense and Bergen and it got them in the title game, but they didn't make a semifinal other than that year. Out of 12 possible chances MSU, NDSU and SDSU have been in the semifinals 10 times the last four years.

All MSU can do is keep chopping wood or as Julius Davis said, keep heading into the storm and don't look back.

They all play the same style of football. It's no big secret to each other when they get on the field.

To say MSU is in “lock step” with the Dakotas is a wild take. The stats, the eye test, and the results don’t support that.


MSU has closed the gap in recent years, but we’re still running to catch the bus that’s pulling away

Bring receipts. Lets see what you have that backs up your statement. The stats in the last four games are almost identical, and I think if you added them up MSU would be slightly ahead in terms of total yards.

The eye test tells you they beat SDSU in 2023 only to lose due to a bad call and they out-played NDSU in 2023. Most NDSU people staff/fans felt like they stole one last year and were glad the clock ran out. The results, show MSU 0-4, but if you don't think all four of those could've gone either way, you're lying to yourself.

[gris_h8er]

Vigen is not the problem lol

Please do elaborate Mr. Madden

You have eyes. This is either the first game you've watched or you're just another emotional clown arguing in bad faith.
Go to bed and come back later.

You’re right. I saw:
1) playing for a field goal at half time
2) miscues, fumbles and blocked punts and 12 men on the field
3) a new offensive coordinator and the same suspect and unexplainable play calls
4) inconsistent play
5) talented kids as always. (He recruits well) but they’re not sharp, seem unprepared.

So who is to blame for those things? Things which we regularly see from Vigen coached teams. Who is the boogeyman that keeps thwarting the coaching genius that is Brent Vigen?

#1 has been consistent through Vigens career. It's not ever going to change. Its got him to a 79% win percentage with the Cats, 2 natties, a few semis, and a bunch of wins at NDSU

2). Correct. Totally unacceptable. Really boggles the mind.

3) Yes

4) I think thats to be expected 2 games in with new co-ordinator, QB, etc. Vigen has a history of getting these things cleaned up as the season goes on.

5) Except in the 80% of games that Vigen wins.

1) losses close games, see Idaho two years ago and tonight
3) has to be Vigen
4) isn’t the point of practice and the team arriving before classes so they’re prepared for games? Oregon doesn’t count. Outlier and irrelevant. SDSU tonight was sloppy and has to be someone’s fault
5) I’m worried about the 20% he doesn’t win. Let’s get it to 95% and then I’ll shut up about the vegetablist.

OK...where exactly are you going to find a coach that wins 95% of games?

Here it is again. “This is good enough cause they’re the cats and they’ve been bad before” that is not an acceptable reason. I don’t understand why so many of our fan base accepts almost just because there have been some bad seasons in the past. That fan mentality is nearly as infuriating as Vigen’s almost good enough, almost prepared, almost beat a good team coaching style.

Complacency kills success. The mindset you describe seems to have a grip on the program as a whole, and that’s culturally problematic.

I also don’t get why a few posters on here are entitled and act like the program owes them a championship. Some of you live in a fantasy world. Next time there is a job opening some of you should apply.

Having standards and expectations is not entitlement it’s the fact of life. You don’t buy a car and just pick whatever car you get. You don’t build/buy a house and accept whatever one you get. You have standards and expectations as with anything in life; anyone who suggests otherwise is either complacent or a liar.

[technoCat]

MSU, SDSU and NDSU are in lock step with each other. The deciding factor when they play other each is randomness. Since 2021, MSU is 1-5 with four losses by miniscule fractions. SDSU is up on NDSU 4-2, but four games have been decided by a TD or less. The only blowouts were by SDSU over NDSU in 2023, when NDSU was down a tad, SDSU over MSU in 2022 and MSU knew its lines weren't ready for prime time. NDSU over MSU in 2021 when Mellott went out on the first series. Other than that, it's just a knockdown, drag out fight. Especially since the start of 2023 when MSU actually caught up physically. No other teams are in the same ballpark.

You can flip a coin, and it'll come up heads 10 times in a row sometimes, and that's kinda what's happening to MSU. There's not guarantee it won't be 20.

SDSU is 7-2, NDSU is 5-4, MSU is 1-5. All three of them blow everyone's doors off unless they're just having a bad day. The eight contestants in the last four title games have been those three teams 7 times. The Griz had a good defense and Bergen and it got them in the title game, but they didn't make a semifinal other than that year. Out of 12 possible chances MSU, NDSU and SDSU have been in the semifinals 10 times the last four years.

All MSU can do is keep chopping wood or as Julius Davis said, keep heading into the storm and don't look back.

They all play the same style of football. It's no big secret to each other when they get on the field.

To say MSU is in “lock step” with the Dakotas is a wild take. The stats, the eye test, and the results don’t support that.


MSU has closed the gap in recent years, but we’re still running to catch the bus that’s pulling away

Bring receipts. Lets see what you have that backs up your statement. The stats in the last four games are almost identical, and I think if you added them up MSU would be slightly ahead in terms of total yards.

The eye test tells you they beat SDSU in 2023 only to lose due to a bad call and they out-played NDSU in 2023. Most NDSU people staff/fans felt like they stole one last year and were glad the clock ran out. The results, show MSU 0-4, but if you don't think all four of those could've gone either way, you're lying to yourself.

But they didn't go the other way. If a game is close, we have not found a way to win. That isn't a coin flip, that is a culture. We need to stop acting like this team is on the same level because obviously something is missing and we need to take another step to get there.

[onceacat]

MSU, SDSU and NDSU are in lock step with each other. The deciding factor when they play other each is randomness. Since 2021, MSU is 1-5 with four losses by miniscule fractions. SDSU is up on NDSU 4-2, but four games have been decided by a TD or less. The only blowouts were by SDSU over NDSU in 2023, when NDSU was down a tad, SDSU over MSU in 2022 and MSU knew its lines weren't ready for prime time. NDSU over MSU in 2021 when Mellott went out on the first series. Other than that, it's just a knockdown, drag out fight. Especially since the start of 2023 when MSU actually caught up physically. No other teams are in the same ballpark.

You can flip a coin, and it'll come up heads 10 times in a row sometimes, and that's kinda what's happening to MSU. There's not guarantee it won't be 20.

SDSU is 7-2, NDSU is 5-4, MSU is 1-5. All three of them blow everyone's doors off unless they're just having a bad day. The eight contestants in the last four title games have been those three teams 7 times. The Griz had a good defense and Bergen and it got them in the title game, but they didn't make a semifinal other than that year. Out of 12 possible chances MSU, NDSU and SDSU have been in the semifinals 10 times the last four years.

All MSU can do is keep chopping wood or as Julius Davis said, keep heading into the storm and don't look back.

They all play the same style of football. It's no big secret to each other when they get on the field.

To say MSU is in “lock step” with the Dakotas is a wild take. The stats, the eye test, and the results don’t support that.


MSU has closed the gap in recent years, but we’re still running to catch the bus that’s pulling away

Look at the box score from last night or the natty in January. The stats EXACTLY prove it.

[TomCat88]

MSU, SDSU and NDSU are in lock step with each other. The deciding factor when they play other each is randomness. Since 2021, MSU is 1-5 with four losses by miniscule fractions. SDSU is up on NDSU 4-2, but four games have been decided by a TD or less. The only blowouts were by SDSU over NDSU in 2023, when NDSU was down a tad, SDSU over MSU in 2022 and MSU knew its lines weren't ready for prime time. NDSU over MSU in 2021 when Mellott went out on the first series. Other than that, it's just a knockdown, drag out fight. Especially since the start of 2023 when MSU actually caught up physically. No other teams are in the same ballpark.

You can flip a coin, and it'll come up heads 10 times in a row sometimes, and that's kinda what's happening to MSU. There's not guarantee it won't be 20.

SDSU is 7-2, NDSU is 5-4, MSU is 1-5. All three of them blow everyone's doors off unless they're just having a bad day. The eight contestants in the last four title games have been those three teams 7 times. The Griz had a good defense and Bergen and it got them in the title game, but they didn't make a semifinal other than that year. Out of 12 possible chances MSU, NDSU and SDSU have been in the semifinals 10 times the last four years.

All MSU can do is keep chopping wood or as Julius Davis said, keep heading into the storm and don't look back.

They all play the same style of football. It's no big secret to each other when they get on the field.

Saying that the loss last night was “like flipping a coin” “it could come up heads 10 times in a row” is delusional and disingenuous. Saying that a victory over the DSU schools is purely up to chance might be one of the worst college football analysis I’ve ever seen. If you’re consistently losing to a group of teams or team you’re doing something wrong. I’m not guaranteeing that I know the right answer but I know something is wrong. Anyone gifted with the ability to observe and basic deduction can figure that out.

It's called an exaggeration for effect. However, if you don't realize the amount of randomness that's involved in sports, you've got your head buried in the sand. When two evenly matched teams play, you get what you saw last night. It took two extra periods to determine a winner. It came down to one play in the end.

SDSU did a lot of things wrong last night as well. So did NDSU last year and the year before, and so did SDSU in the 2023 game. Sometimes the winning team does more things wrong that the losing team but still wins.

Football, unlike almost every sport in the world (soccer, baseball, basketball, hockey), doesn't have the "luxury" of playing 50-82-162 games a year. There isn't a seven-game series to sort out the "better" team. The NCAA hoop tournament is the only thing that's similar and how many times to you see the final four not have a #1 seed in it?

I realize people are mad that MSU got beat...again...but it's not a black and white issue of 'they're just better than us.' None of those three teams is going to get better, at least not dramatically. Barring a swath of injuries they're all going to play really good football all year and then face each other in the playoffs.

If the Cats win, it'll be because they make the plays they need to make at key times. It won't because they became magically better.

[onceacat]

Vigen is not the problem lol

Please do elaborate Mr. Madden

You have eyes. This is either the first game you've watched or you're just another emotional clown arguing in bad faith.
Go to bed and come back later.

You’re right. I saw:
1) playing for a field goal at half time
2) miscues, fumbles and blocked punts and 12 men on the field
3) a new offensive coordinator and the same suspect and unexplainable play calls
4) inconsistent play
5) talented kids as always. (He recruits well) but they’re not sharp, seem unprepared.

So who is to blame for those things? Things which we regularly see from Vigen coached teams. Who is the boogeyman that keeps thwarting the coaching genius that is Brent Vigen?

#1 has been consistent through Vigens career. It's not ever going to change. Its got him to a 79% win percentage with the Cats, 2 natties, a few semis, and a bunch of wins at NDSU

2). Correct. Totally unacceptable. Really boggles the mind.

3) Yes

4) I think thats to be expected 2 games in with new co-ordinator, QB, etc. Vigen has a history of getting these things cleaned up as the season goes on.

5) Except in the 80% of games that Vigen wins.

1) losses close games, see Idaho two years ago and tonight
3) has to be Vigen
4) isn’t the point of practice and the team arriving before classes so they’re prepared for games? Oregon doesn’t count. Outlier and irrelevant. SDSU tonight was sloppy and has to be someone’s fault
5) I’m worried about the 20% he doesn’t win. Let’s get it to 95% and then I’ll shut up about the vegetablist.

OK...where exactly are you going to find a coach that wins 95% of games?

Here it is again. “This is good enough cause they’re the cats and they’ve been bad before” that is not an acceptable reason. I don’t understand why so many of our fan base accepts almost just because there have been some bad seasons in the past. That fan mentality is nearly as infuriating as Vigen’s almost good enough, almost prepared, almost beat a good team coaching style.

Complacency kills success. The mindset you describe seems to have a grip on the program as a whole, and that’s culturally problematic.

Culture runs downhill.

There are those that disagree but I see a problem and it’s not a new one. It is one that has plagued the vegetablist and Ash. Sure looks the be a culture/attitude problem. There’s no reason the Cats can’t be better and improve (beat the gris and dsu consistently) with the money that has been put into the program, the talent on the roster and the largest university in the state behind them. We take academics seriously, never had a prof say “that was almost good enough here’s an A” so why does Vigen get that courtesy?

Because Vigen is clearly an ‘A’ coach with an ‘A’ team…that occasionally loses to other A or A+ teams

[BelgradeBobcat]

I think there's a better than 50/50 chance this season ends in Fargo or Brookings...but our stats will be pretty even so there's that.

[SparkCat]

Please do elaborate Mr. Madden

You have eyes. This is either the first game you've watched or you're just another emotional clown arguing in bad faith.
Go to bed and come back later.

You’re right. I saw:
1) playing for a field goal at half time
2) miscues, fumbles and blocked punts and 12 men on the field
3) a new offensive coordinator and the same suspect and unexplainable play calls
4) inconsistent play
5) talented kids as always. (He recruits well) but they’re not sharp, seem unprepared.

So who is to blame for those things? Things which we regularly see from Vigen coached teams. Who is the boogeyman that keeps thwarting the coaching genius that is Brent Vigen?

#1 has been consistent through Vigens career. It's not ever going to change. Its got him to a 79% win percentage with the Cats, 2 natties, a few semis, and a bunch of wins at NDSU

2). Correct. Totally unacceptable. Really boggles the mind.

3) Yes

4) I think thats to be expected 2 games in with new co-ordinator, QB, etc. Vigen has a history of getting these things cleaned up as the season goes on.

5) Except in the 80% of games that Vigen wins.

1) losses close games, see Idaho two years ago and tonight
3) has to be Vigen
4) isn’t the point of practice and the team arriving before classes so they’re prepared for games? Oregon doesn’t count. Outlier and irrelevant. SDSU tonight was sloppy and has to be someone’s fault
5) I’m worried about the 20% he doesn’t win. Let’s get it to 95% and then I’ll shut up about the vegetablist.

OK...where exactly are you going to find a coach that wins 95% of games?

Here it is again. “This is good enough cause they’re the cats and they’ve been bad before” that is not an acceptable reason. I don’t understand why so many of our fan base accepts almost just because there have been some bad seasons in the past. That fan mentality is nearly as infuriating as Vigen’s almost good enough, almost prepared, almost beat a good team coaching style.

Complacency kills success. The mindset you describe seems to have a grip on the program as a whole, and that’s culturally problematic.

I also don’t get why a few posters on here are entitled and act like the program owes them a championship. Some of you live in a fantasy world. Next time there is a job opening some of you should apply.

Having standards and expectations is not entitlement it’s the fact of life. You don’t buy a car and just pick whatever car you get. You don’t build/buy a house and accept whatever one you get. You have standards and expectations as with anything in life; anyone who suggests otherwise is either complacent or a liar.

So then shop around for a new team that meets your expectations, your highness. What you listed are investments, that give you the power to make a choice. You voluntarily invest your time to watch the Cats, so if they do not meet your expectations, maybe shop around. Are there better coaches and staff than Vigen, of course, if you axe a coach after a legitimate winning record, losing a great senior class, and having staff jump ship, good luck brining in a great coaching mind.

[TomCat88]

MSU, SDSU and NDSU are in lock step with each other. The deciding factor when they play other each is randomness. Since 2021, MSU is 1-5 with four losses by miniscule fractions. SDSU is up on NDSU 4-2, but four games have been decided by a TD or less. The only blowouts were by SDSU over NDSU in 2023, when NDSU was down a tad, SDSU over MSU in 2022 and MSU knew its lines weren't ready for prime time. NDSU over MSU in 2021 when Mellott went out on the first series. Other than that, it's just a knockdown, drag out fight. Especially since the start of 2023 when MSU actually caught up physically. No other teams are in the same ballpark.

You can flip a coin, and it'll come up heads 10 times in a row sometimes, and that's kinda what's happening to MSU. There's not guarantee it won't be 20.

SDSU is 7-2, NDSU is 5-4, MSU is 1-5. All three of them blow everyone's doors off unless they're just having a bad day. The eight contestants in the last four title games have been those three teams 7 times. The Griz had a good defense and Bergen and it got them in the title game, but they didn't make a semifinal other than that year. Out of 12 possible chances MSU, NDSU and SDSU have been in the semifinals 10 times the last four years.

All MSU can do is keep chopping wood or as Julius Davis said, keep heading into the storm and don't look back.

They all play the same style of football. It's no big secret to each other when they get on the field.

To say MSU is in “lock step” with the Dakotas is a wild take. The stats, the eye test, and the results don’t support that.


MSU has closed the gap in recent years, but we’re still running to catch the bus that’s pulling away

Bring receipts. Lets see what you have that backs up your statement. The stats in the last four games are almost identical, and I think if you added them up MSU would be slightly ahead in terms of total yards.

The eye test tells you they beat SDSU in 2023 only to lose due to a bad call and they out-played NDSU in 2023. Most NDSU people staff/fans felt like they stole one last year and were glad the clock ran out. The results, show MSU 0-4, but if you don't think all four of those could've gone either way, you're lying to yourself.

But they didn't go the other way. If a game is close, we have not found a way to win. That isn't a coin flip, that is a culture. We need to stop acting like this team is on the same level because obviously something is missing and we need to take another step to get there.

Don't take everything literally. Yes, of course it wasn't a coin flip. That's a verbal illustration to make a point. The only thing missing is a play or two. MSU doesn't need to go into a deep dive to seek out why they've lost these last four games. A bad call based on all video evidence I've seen in 2023 vs SDSU; an injury to Mellott in 2023 playoff game vs NDSU (not to mention a pair of missed FGs and a blocked XP and Chambers just barely stepping out of bounds); a fluke first half vs NDSU that saw a 4.9 40 guy go 60+ yards for a TD, among other things; and this game which featured a TF punter getting blocked by a TF special teamer and a shanked punt. That led to 14 of SDSU's 17 regulation points. Yes, I realize they gave one back.

These aren't games where MSU is getting pushed around in the trenches or where they don't have the skill players to keep up. It just boils down to goofy stuff that every game has, but that is magnified x100 in games between evenly matched teams.

There are a ton of examples of teams and athletes going through what MSU is going through and breaking through, and some that never broke through.

[19Cat57]

If you’re looking to fire someone, start with whoever thought it was a good idea to schedule these two matchups to open the season. Imagine the conversations we’d be having right now if we had started with two “cupcake” opponents like Central Washington. Cats would be 2-0 and we would be saying we have a few things to work on but damn we look good for being so early in the year and with all the changes we have had from last years team.

The way I see it, we’ll head into the playoffs with two losses—but we’ll also be far more battle-tested and better prepared because of these early games.