Letter to Chronicle

Post by **rtb** » Wed Nov 23, 2005 11:19 am

Absolutely Meat! No question the mass of college students in Bozeman is unsafe territory, but we have all been there done that and had a lot of fun being a "stupid college kid". I agree that something should be done to reign it in a little, but I don't want to stop the momentum that is buiding around Bobcat Football.

anacondagriz · Post by **anacondagriz** » Wed Nov 23, 2005 11:19 am

Wow she must not be very busy at work. I already received a reply to my email. Its amazing she was offended by the shirts yet she used some of the same language in her own email to me. It is safe to say I won't be turning to Gillespie for my real estate needs.

Post by **rtb** » Wed Nov 23, 2005 11:22 am

She used offensive language in an email? That is it, anyone who has ever sent an email is evil and should be ashamed of themselves. I am never using the internet again!

coachouert · Post by **coachouert** » Wed Nov 23, 2005 11:24 am

Meat,

I can understand why you would have some distaste for some fans from your experience. I also don't think you should say it's your fault for anything, you were at a game, you are allowed to walk around. I think you hit the point exactly with the differences between Missoula and Bozeman now. I remember going to tailgates my freshman year in Missoula for Cat/Griz and they were very much like what we had Saturday, drunken dip$hits taking cheap shots at anyone they could get at. From my few experiences (and I do mean FEW) in Missoula, I have had a great time at the tailgates or a miserable time, mainly due to some fans. I didn't hold this against the town or University of Montana, just against those particular dumba$$es.

I personally am glad that the students are still able to tailgate in Bozeman because I feel that is a great part of any game day atmosphere. The University and city have taken great steps to try and ensure safety, but problems still happens and hopefully they can take a look at the few events from this year and correct them for next year. Hopefully, you get back to Bozeman next year and can see a change and enjoy yourself.

lifeloyalsigmsu · Post by **lifeloyalsigmsu** » Wed Nov 23, 2005 11:37 am

anacondagriz wrote:Wow she must not be very busy at work. I already received a reply to my email. Its amazing she was offended by the shirts yet she used some of the same language in her own email to me. It is safe to say I won't be turning to Gillespie for my real estate needs.

AnaGriz, if you don't mind sharing, what did she say to you in her response since I'm assuming you mentioned you're a fellow griz fan?

CARDIAC_CATS · Post by **CARDIAC_CATS** » Wed Nov 23, 2005 11:42 am

rtb wrote:Absolutely Meat! No question the mass of college students in Bozeman is unsafe territory, but we have all been there done that and had a lot of fun being a "stupid college kid". I agree that something should be done to reign it in a little, but I don't want to stop the momentum that is buiding around Bobcat Football.

Let the kids have fun! College is very stressful and tailgating is a way to relieve some of that stress and have fun. They could reign it in a little, but tailgating is HUGE at MSU and is also helping draw people to the games. It is part of that gameday experience every loves to talk about! I saw a few scuffles on the student side, but for that many people that could have happened at any bar downtown as well (very minor percentage of the people). Everyone else I saw were having a great time.

P.S - If your a griz fan entering the student side, there should be a sign ENTER AT YOUR OWN RISK. Of COURSE your going to get some comments thrown your way if you go over there. There were at least 5-8,000 Bobcat fans on that side drinking beer/having fun. I would expect the same thing if I went into Wash Griz and was in a tailgate of 5-8,000 Griz fans as well. However, we all know that the Griz tailgates don't get that big and in that large amount. So I can see their shock had they entered into the MSU student side and saw some bad T-shirts and buttons. OH MY!

lifeloyalsigmsu · Post by **lifeloyalsigmsu** » Wed Nov 23, 2005 11:43 am

The way Meat described it is how I remember my last on-site experience at a Cat-griz game in Bozeman.

How far to the west of the stadium does the tailgating now extend?

I'm not sure of the logistics of any of that (assuming it has changed), but maybe relegating student tailgates as far away from the stadium as possible since the drunken ones won't make it in there anyway. The tailgating by alumni, etc should be set up in the areas closest to the stadium so that visitors don't have to see the crap from the students.

From my last game as a student, my tailgating crew was a hop, skip, and a jump to the stadium and many in my group were certainly of the type that Meat described.

anacondagriz · Post by **anacondagriz** » Wed Nov 23, 2005 11:44 am

lifeloyalsigmsu wrote:
anacondagriz wrote:Wow she must not be very busy at work. I already received a reply to my email. Its amazing she was offended by the shirts yet she used some of the same language in her own email to me. It is safe to say I won't be turning to Gillespie for my real estate needs.
AnaGriz, if you don't mind sharing, what did she say to you in her response since I'm assuming you mentioned you're a fellow griz fan?

I would post the email but she mentioned a fellow Griz fan by name. She told me that if fans got in my face yelling "F*@K you" or if somebody "threw mud on my wife" I would be pissed too. She also said that if I believe it is ok for students to wear shirts saying "Eat ****** Griz" or "F*@K the Griz" then she feels sorry for me. I told her thanks for making us all look like whiners & that she needs to get a grip & realize this is a rivalry.

El_Gato · Post by **El_Gato** » Wed Nov 23, 2005 11:46 am

Meat,

Thanks for the post because it was EXACTLY what I've thought over the past few seasons.

The fact is the Griz DON'T have an area like the East tailgate in Bozeman; the Griz tailgate area is very similar to what you find in the West tailgate area in Bozeman.

I think a valid UM comparison would be this: Imagine wearing your Cat gear on Cat/Griz Saturday, and walking through one of the UM dorms or perhaps one of their frat houses. Do you think you'd get through "unscathed"?

In other words, the difference between MSU & UM is not how the "other" team's fans are treated; the biggest difference between the 2 schools is only a matter of WHERE THE STUDENTS GET WASTED.

Until MSU decides to completely discourage/eliminate the student "mosh pit" that has developed in the East lot, it's real simple, griz fans: DON'T GO IN OR THROUGH THAT AREA. I did try to steer them away from there in a post on egriz last week; next time I will put more emphasis on the warning so that folks like Ms. Beck don't have their day ruined by a bunch of drunken students. I'm sure she would have had a MARVELOUS time last Saturday were it not for that; you suppose?

I seriously doubt any griz fan who visited or walked through the West lot had any trouble whatsoever.

I wonder if Ms Beck has ever visited New York City and taken a stroll through Central Park or Harlem after dark? As a matter of fact, I believe that is the precise analogy I will use in my email to her...

PS Thanks for the correction, wbtfg.

lifeloyalsigmsu · Post by **lifeloyalsigmsu** » Wed Nov 23, 2005 11:51 am

El_Gato wrote:Meat,

Thanks for the post because it was EXACTLY what I've thought over the past few seasons.

The fact is the Griz DON'T have an area like the East tailgate in Bozeman; the Griz tailgate area is very similar to what you find in the West tailgate area in Bozeman.

I think a valid UM comparison would be this: Imagine wearing your Cat gear on Cat/Griz Saturday, and walking through one of the UM dorms or perhaps one of their frat houses. Do you think you'd get through "unscathed"?

In other words, the difference between MSU & UM is not how the "other" team's fans are treated; the biggest difference between the 2 schools is only a matter of WHERE THE STUDENTS GET WASTED.

Until MSU decides to completely discourage/eliminate the student "mosh pit" that has developed in the East lot, it's real simple, griz fans: DON'T GO IN OR THROUGH THAT AREA. I did try to steer them away from there in a post on egriz last week; next time I will put more emphasis on the warning so that folks like Ms. Gillespie don't have their day ruined by a bunch of drunken students. I'm sure she would have had a MARVELOUS time last Saturday were it not for that; you suppose?

I seriously doubt any griz fan who visited or walked through the West lot had any trouble whatsoever.

I wonder if Ms Gillespie has ever visited New York City and taken a stroll through Central Park or Harlem after dark? As a matter of fact, I believe that is the precise analogy I will use in my email to her...

Or, instead of using the analogy, maybe sour grapes would suffice because that's likely all it is.

lifeloyalsigmsu · Post by **lifeloyalsigmsu** » Wed Nov 23, 2005 11:55 am

anacondagriz wrote:
lifeloyalsigmsu wrote:
anacondagriz wrote:Wow she must not be very busy at work. I already received a reply to my email. Its amazing she was offended by the shirts yet she used some of the same language in her own email to me. It is safe to say I won't be turning to Gillespie for my real estate needs.
AnaGriz, if you don't mind sharing, what did she say to you in her response since I'm assuming you mentioned you're a fellow griz fan?
I would post the email but she mentioned a fellow Griz fan by name. She told me that if fans got in my face yelling "F*@K you" or if somebody "threw mud on my wife" I would be pissed too. She also said that if I believe it is ok for students to wear shirts saying "Eat ****** Griz" or "F*@K the Griz" then she feels sorry for me. I told her thanks for making us all look like whiners & that she needs to get a grip & realize this is a rivalry.

Maybe I missed something over the years, but despite the nastiness that can be seen with the rivalry, I"ve never heard anyone directly say "F*ck you" to a fan but I've certainly heard the cheering mantra of one team being told to "eat s*it _____" while cheering go [insert team you cheer for here] go.

Grizlaw · Post by **Grizlaw** » Wed Nov 23, 2005 12:20 pm

A few random comments:

1. First, I haven't been to a game in Bozeman anytime in recent history, so I won't try to compare atmospheres.

2. Just from what's been described here, I think a distinction needs to be made between "mere words" and things like throwing mud and snow at others. IMO, any amount of verbal "ribbing," even if slightly vulgar, is acceptable at a game. I may think the "eat sht Grizzlies" cheer is classless, but I can accept that things like that are part of college football (esp. rivalry games). Things like throwing mud at opposing fans, on the other hand, are not acceptable behavior in any environment. I'm not saying such things never happen in Missoula or that they happen a lot in Bozeman; I'm just saying that wherever they happen, it's a problem that needs to be dealt with.

3. While I think Diane is probably a whiner and I'm not going to defend anything in her letter, I do find it slightly amusing that here in Anonymousville, there are people who do not sign their names to their postings who nonetheless felt the need to post her photo on the web and make fun of her appearance. Very classy, guys.

--GL

lifeloyalsigmsu · Post by **lifeloyalsigmsu** » Wed Nov 23, 2005 12:26 pm

Grizlaw wrote:A few random comments:

1. First, I haven't been to a game in Bozeman anytime in recent history, so I won't try to compare atmospheres.

2. Just from what's been described here, I think a distinction needs to be made between "mere words" and things like throwing mud and snow at others. IMO, any amount of verbal "ribbing," even if slightly vulgar, is acceptable at a game. I may think the "eat sht Grizzlies" cheer is classless, but I can accept that things like that are part of college football (esp. rivalry games). Things like throwing mud at opposing fans, on the other hand, are not acceptable behavior in any environment. I'm not saying such things never happen in Missoula or that they happen a lot in Bozeman; I'm just saying that wherever they happen, it's a problem that needs to be dealt with.

3. While I think Diane is probably a whiner and I'm not going to defend anything in her letter, I do find it slightly amusing that here in Anonymousville, there are people who do not sign their names to their postings who nonetheless felt the need to post her photo on the web and make fun of her appearance. Very classy, guys.

--GL

With all due respect, you just called WBTFG classless because he posted the woman's email address and comments were made on her appearance. The irony of your assertion is that you're still anonymous too and you called someone classless.

Post by **SonomaCat** » Wed Nov 23, 2005 12:31 pm

lifeloyalsigmsu wrote:
Grizlaw wrote:A few random comments:

1. First, I haven't been to a game in Bozeman anytime in recent history, so I won't try to compare atmospheres.

2. Just from what's been described here, I think a distinction needs to be made between "mere words" and things like throwing mud and snow at others. IMO, any amount of verbal "ribbing," even if slightly vulgar, is acceptable at a game. I may think the "eat sht Grizzlies" cheer is classless, but I can accept that things like that are part of college football (esp. rivalry games). Things like throwing mud at opposing fans, on the other hand, are not acceptable behavior in any environment. I'm not saying such things never happen in Missoula or that they happen a lot in Bozeman; I'm just saying that wherever they happen, it's a problem that needs to be dealt with.

3. While I think Diane is probably a whiner and I'm not going to defend anything in her letter, I do find it slightly amusing that here in Anonymousville, there are people who do not sign their names to their postings who nonetheless felt the need to post her photo on the web and make fun of her appearance. Very classy, guys.

--GL
With all due respect, you just called WBTFG classless because he posted the woman's email address and comments were made on her appearance. The irony of your assertion is that you're still anonymous too and you called someone classless.

I guess that would make it a push since neither one of them is using a real name. But GL makes a good point. To keep this conversation on the up and up and to avoid getting too personal (and limiting the discussion to ideas and words), I am going to delete the photo posts. Sorry WBTFG.

Just so people don't get the wrong idea who come along later, the picture was one she uses on her own business website and wasn't altered in any way. No crass descriptions were used by anybody about her appearance, and the descriptions were actually flattering (with an understood ironic tone).

Grizlaw · Post by **Grizlaw** » Wed Nov 23, 2005 12:33 pm

lifeloyalsigmsu wrote:With all due respect, you just called WBTFG classless because he posted the woman's email address and comments were made on her appearance. The irony of your assertion is that you're still anonymous too and you called someone classless.

Actually, I wasn't calling any specific person classless in general; I just want to clear that up. My comment is simply that making fun of someone's appearance because they said things you disagreed with is not a classy move. Do you disagree?

As for my own anonymity, I don't see any irony. I haven't made fun of anyone's appearance; if I've said anything that you think is unfair, please point it out and I will make whatever apologies are appropriate.

wbtfg · Post by **wbtfg** » Wed Nov 23, 2005 12:37 pm

I guess that would make it a push since neither one of them is using a real name. But GL makes a good point. To keep this conversation on the up and up and to avoid getting too personal (and limiting the discussion to ideas and words), I am going to delete the photo posts. Sorry WBTFG.

That's cool. All anyone has to do is go to Google or Yahoo type in 'Diane Beck and Missoula' and search for images. It's not like I was posting a pic that isn't already on the internet. Whatev....

lifeloyalsigmsu · Post by **lifeloyalsigmsu** » Wed Nov 23, 2005 12:45 pm

Grizlaw wrote:
lifeloyalsigmsu wrote:With all due respect, you just called WBTFG classless because he posted the woman's email address and comments were made on her appearance. The irony of your assertion is that you're still anonymous too and you called someone classless.
Actually, I wasn't calling any specific person classless in general; I just want to clear that up. My comment is simply that making fun of someone's appearance because they said things you disagreed with is not a classy move. Do you disagree?

As for my own anonymity, I don't see any irony. I haven't made fun of anyone's appearance; if I've said anything that you think is unfair, please point it out and I will make whatever apologies are appropriate.

All's fair on here in my opinion. However, what were your intentions of pointing out that someone's actions weren't classy when, in truth, it really has nothing to do with any of us?

kcatz · Post by **kcatz** » Wed Nov 23, 2005 12:56 pm

Oh god, I hope she didn't see the "take a griz and wipe" shirt or the "Muck Fizzoula" or my "FTG" wrist band!!!

maybe we can find someone with enough left over "stuff" that we could mail her a few shirts and pins...now that would be funny!

lifeloyalsigmsu · Post by **lifeloyalsigmsu** » Wed Nov 23, 2005 1:01 pm

kcatz wrote:Oh god, I hope she didn't see the "take a griz and wipe" shirt or the "Muck Fizzoula" or my "FTG" wrist band!!!

maybe we can find someone with enough left over "stuff" that we could mail her a few shirts and pins...now that would be funny!

Classic!

Post by **rtb** » Wed Nov 23, 2005 1:07 pm

I think my sister has a "Slip it to 'Em" shirt left over. Speaking of Muck Fissoula, that was an awesome shirt. The Guck the Friz, Huck the Fuskies is old and tired, but I liked the new life that Muck Fissoula brought back to the shirts.

I have a shirt that I can't give away, but would love to share from the Great Falls alums.

It has Champ next to a Wheel of Fortune Board and says.

H_Y GR_ZZL__S, G_ F_CK Y__RS_LV_S. And then asks, would you like to buy a vowel? CLASSIC!