Where does all their money go?

[Eastcoastgriz]

I want to start this one by saying congrats to the MSU mens track and field team on a stellar season topped with a big sky conference championship. Now, along with this championship, we also received the presidential cup, which rewards outstanding acedemics. So now, why can't U of M compete with MSU when it comes to these various awards and different sports. Well it is it because their money goes straight to their football program, not to their academics, not to their various extracurricular activities, or anything else? Could someone over there quit protesting for one minute and fill me in on this. Why is it that the U of M track team gets 89 points at conference with athletes like Jummy Stanton and Andrew Levin, where is the rest of the team. Yeah, UM may have more of a tradition in football than MSU, but everything else is going to waste while MSU is excelling in everything. Argue with me on this, I know for a fact this is true because I hear it from UM students, who prefere the "laid back, do it whenever you feel like it" environment at UM. So , where does UM's money go?

The Univeristy funds our athetic department at a lower level than msu, maybe thats it.

[jagur1]

I'll say it slow for the slow cat fans. If you had been paying attention you would know that the U of M funnels money from the Football program into the general fund to pay for school type items. This pisses some people off. I myself wish some of the big boys USC, FSU, Ohio state ect would stop waisting millions on Football and do some good for education. One example the money from food sales and Griz gear go to the general fund. At every other University I know of this money goes to pay for such items as decals on the weights to help impress high school kids.

[El_Gato]

read my post, jerseygriz, and then YOU go tell your other athletes that they don't matter. Hell, why aren't you DEMANDING that they disband those "non-important" programs so more money can be diverted to the almighty Griz football team since they're the only ones that matter.

Call Jim O'Day and ask him how he's coming on getting rid of all those WORTHLESS programs he's in charge of.

The point is, loser, that we Bobcats recognize & respect ALL our student/athletes at MSU and are proud of their accomplishments on & off the field, whether we ATTEND their competitions or not.

THAT is why our student/athletes have an aggregate GPA over 3.0 for 7 consecutive semesters; at dUMb, their given a passing grade if they can COUNT to 7.

Go ahead, ecg; keep making an arse of yourself. It's very entertaining. I wish I was a moderator; it would be worth losing that position to forward your IP address to ALL the student/athletes and the entire U of M Athletic Department so they could respond to your claims that they are not important, while YOU, however, can take pride in what you are:

Another pathetic, bandwagon griz fan...

[UMclassof2002]

dumbnoclass2002,

You are FAR too young and have nowhere near enough knowledge to proclaim dUMb as the Harvard of the west.

When it comes to the education radar, dUMb has never even warranted a "blip". Before you go popping off about it some more, go do a little research and you'll find MSU held in much higher regard in FAR more areas than that little school you attended, the school of Modern Dance.

As a matter of fact, right here on the Nation you'll find a thread on the impressive amount of scientific research funding awarded to THE Montana State University. Put THAT in your pipe and smoke it. OOPS; I guess I shouldn't encourage your addiction, should I?

Again, I don't smoke pot or anything else that goes in a pipe. Even if I did, who gives a ******?

I didn't proclaim UM 'Harvard of the West', I merely echoed that commonly held sentiment.

Why don't you do a little research, El Twato, and come up with some facts to back your claims (and, no, I'm not counting some thread on the Nation). I'll go first:

-UM's School of Pharmacy and Allied Health Sciences is ranked seventh nationally out of 94 schools and colleges of pharmacy in biomedical research funding. In 2003, the school brought in more than $11 million in external funding.
-UM President George Dennison has served longer than any other president in the University's history, surpassing the previous record of 13 years and eight months in April 2004.
-For the sixth consecutive year, UM's School of Journalism placed in the top 10 of the 2004 Hearst Journalism Awards Program.
-UM has produced 10 Truman Scholars, 12 Goldwater Scholars and 16 Udall Scholars. UM is tied with Cornell University for having more Udall Scholars than any other school in the nation since the award's inception in 1996. The 2004 scholarship winners are: Truman -- Lauren Caldwell; Goldwater -- Amanda Ng and Dawson Dunning; Udall -- Lauren Caldwell, Dawson Dunning and Sierra Howlett.
-UM's Ethics Bowl Team reached the "final four" of the 10th annual Intercollegiate Ethics Bowl. (2004)
-Touting top mascot Monte garnered UM the "Best of Show" in the national Admissions Marketing Report competition. (2004)
-UM's Reserve Officer Training Corps was ranked ninth out of 271 ROTC programs in the nation. (2004)
-With 35 alumni volunteers serving in the Peace Corps, UM is No. 10 on the organization's list of "Top Producing Colleges and Universities." The ranking, earned two years in a row, puts UM ahead of other medium-sized institutions such as Notre Dame, Yale and Harvard. (2004)
-Retired English Professor Gerry Brenner was named the 2003 Montana Professor of the Year. The award is presented by the Carnegie Foundation for the Advancement of Teaching in conjunction with the Council for Advancement and Support of Education. Brenner is the third UM professor in a row to earn the statewide recognition, joining music Professor Esther England, 2002, and economics Professor John Photiades, 2001.
-Ranks 17th in the nation and fifth among public universities in producing Rhodes Scholars (28; see list below).
-The Grizzly football team won the Division I-AA National Championship in 1995 and 2001 and was national championship runner-up in 1996, 2000 and 2004.
-Seventy-eight percent of all UM pre-med students are admitted to various medical schools. The national average acceptance rate is 40 percent.
-UM journalism graduates have won eight Pulitzer Prizes.
-On May 21, 2003, UM student Jess Roskelley became the youngest American to summit Mount Everest.
-In June 2003, UM journalism student Danielle Cross placed first in the radio news competition of the Hearst Journalism Awards Program, known as the “College Pulitzers.”
-The School of Law’s moot court team won the 2000 national championship.
-UM’s institutional theme, “The Discovery Continues,” earned the Virginia Carter Smith Grand Crystal award from the Council for Advancement and Support of Education District VIII in 2001.
-UM’s Griz Gear line of clothing earned the 2001 Synergy Award from the National Collegiate Licensing Association.
-UM’s Maureen and Mike Mansfield Library houses the earliest authorized edition of the Lewis and Clark journals.
-UM’s graduate program in creative writing tied for 10th place in U.S. News and World Report’s list of America’s best graduate programs.
-President George W. Bush’s first two nominees for U.S. District Court judgeships were UM law alumni Richard Cebull of Great Falls and Sam Haddon of Missoula, sworn in in 2001.
-UM political science Professor Peter Koehn was one of 12 nationwide named a Fulbright New Century Scholar in 2001.
-The School of Business Administration had the highest first-time pass rate in the nation in the 2000 Uniform Certified Public Accountant Examination.
-UM biologist Doug Emlen received a 2001 Presidential Early Career Award for Scientists and Engineers, one of the highest honors bestowed by the U.S. government.
-“A University Stands,” a UM promotional video remembering the Sept. 11 attacks, earned a Gold Award from the Council for Advancement and Support of Education in 2002.
-UM’s athletic program was named No. 75 among the top 200 Division I programs in 2002.

Next!

[El_Gato]

jag,

Is that REALLY happening? If so, then it's just more creative bookkeeping at dUMb. The bottom line is that yes, the Griz football program does turn a "profit"; but NOT the Athletic Department as a whole (remember the $1 million deficit?). If some of the football $$ are going to academics as you claim, that's fine but it simply means that OTHER funding sources are necessary to make up the expenses of the other programs.

In other words (for all you griz fans who're so much faster than us poor Bobcats), the Athletic Department LOST money, regardless of the fact that football turned a profit. That is why both our schools require tax dollars from the State to meet their needs. Yes, it's true that recently the U has needed fewer public $$ to "balance the books" and that is ENTIRELY due to Griz football being so successful but the fact remains that the Athletic Departments at both schools operate in the red.

Why aren't you joining ecg and scats in demanding that all your unnecessary, unimportant, and meaningless sports are eliminated so the All-Powerful Griz football program can become even MORE important in your pathetic lives?

[UMclassof2002]

All-Powerful Griz football program

You're starting to get it

[El_Gato]

dumbnoclass2002,

It's late on a Friday night so I can't email MSU to send me their "poop sheet" like yours, but just off the top of my head, here are a few observations from your list:

Your pharmacy school (take the pills from the big bottle and put them in a smaller bottle & give them to the customer) data is impressive. Agreed. WHO CARES? Have you ever paid attention to the folks manning most pharmacy counters (Wal-Mart, Walgreens, Shopko, etc...)? I know there's a "head" pharmacist on staff at all these places, but judging by the people who actually fill your bottle for you, you don't get the sense it's all that demanding of a job...

WHO CARES how long Dennison's been there? Most I know despise the guy. The fact that your president has been at your school the longest is some kind of EDGE you have over us? lol

You claim dUMb's med-school placement rate is 78%? Ours is 83.

The scholar awards info you mentioned is nice but I'm pretty certain when I obtain MSU's data on those, we have more (not any particular award, just overall); I need to talk to a friend in Bozeman to get that info quickly next week. If I'm wrong, I'll admit so here.

Your CPA data PALES in comparison to MSU's and your success there is only a recent phenomena; MSU's program has been in the top 5 for close to 30 years (maybe even longer).

The fact that you include information about the Peace Corp & a mascot & clothing & one of your students climbing Mt. Everest shows you guys will brag about ANYTHING positive at dUMb, which is PRECISELY why you'd be beating your chests if you ever (yeah right) won the President's Cup.

And I'm pretty sure the only folks who've ever called dUMb the "Harvard of the west" were griz.

[UMclassof2002]

dumbnoclass2002,

It's late on a Friday night so I can't email MSU to send me their "poop sheet" like yours, but just off the top of my head, here are a few observations from your list:

Your pharmacy school (take the pills from the big bottle and put them in a smaller bottle & give them to the customer) data is impressive. Agreed. WHO CARES? Have you ever paid attention to the folks manning most pharmacy counters (Wal-Mart, Walgreens, Shopko, etc...)? I know there's a "head" pharmacist on staff at all these places, but judging by the people who actually fill your bottle for you, you don't get the sense it's all that demanding of a job...

WHO CARES how long Dennison's been there? Most I know despise the guy. The fact that your president has been at your school the longest is some kind of EDGE you have over us? lol

You claim dUMb's med-school placement rate is 78%? Ours is 83.

The scholar awards info you mentioned is nice but I'm pretty certain when I obtain MSU's data on those, we have more (not any particular award, just overall); I need to talk to a friend in Bozeman to get that info quickly next week. If I'm wrong, I'll admit so here.

Your CPA data PALES in comparison to MSU's and your success there is only a recent phenomena; MSU's program has been in the top 5 for close to 30 years (maybe even longer).

The fact that you include information about the Peace Corp & a mascot & clothing & one of your students climbing Mt. Everest shows you guys will brag about ANYTHING positive at dUMb, which is PRECISELY why you'd be beating your chests if you ever (yeah right) won the President's Cup.

And I'm pretty sure the only folks who've ever called dUMb the "Harvard of the west" were griz.

More ranting from the 4th tier.

[CelticCat]

It's pretty funny the only comparison made to Harvard was the fact that Missoula has more hippies than Harvard.

[UMclassof2002]

It's pretty funny the only comparison made to Harvard was the fact that Missoula has more hippies than Harvard.

You have just confirmed your own idiocy.





Go back to beating off to Toby Keith.

[CelticCat]

I know you think you are the smack god but seriously, do you ever listen to the words that spew out of your mouth?

[JahGriz]

It isn't complicated. UM spends less as a percentage of state money on athletics than MSU...fact.
UM takes consession money, of all sports I would guess, not just football, and puts it into the general fund. That is money earned by having athletics, so should be ahtletics money, I think.
Griz gear same story. I can't see less than 90% of Grizzly wear being bought by sports fans.
I'd guess the've found other way to take money from athletics.
Add all that up as revenue for athletics and tell me UM athletics doesn't make money.

[El_Gato]

jah,

then why all the fuss over that little loss of a million bucks that cost hogan his job?

And why does the State give your athletic department money? Yes, it's a lower amount than they give MSU (recently, that is), but the Griz Athletic Department DOES receive tax money. If they were running "in the black", those tax dollars would not be necessary.

[PortlandCat]

Ever notice that every institution's backers who refer to it as the Harvard of the insert name here... only have one thing in common, they aren't Harvard.

Face it, a good education can be had at both schools if you work at it, but the average grad doesn't have to kill themselves to get through. They are both low rated public schools that are underfunded. However, one can become sucessful out of either school.

I know that my graduate school experience showed me that undergraduates at top tier institutions work a hell of a lot harder than I had to at MSU and I guarantee that the experience is similar at UM. Get over yourselves.

If you have succeeded in life the college you went to probably helped, but it is not the end all and it is not responsible for your success or failure.

[JahGriz]

this is old, but if you like I'll find newer.

http://www2.umt.edu/nwa2000/faq14.htm
I believe this was from 2000.

Athletic programs have improved and increased visibility on the Missoula campus during the past ten years. How much additional state money has been used to support them?

Intercollegiate Athletics at The University of Montana has enjoyed unprecedented success in the past decade highlighted by a Division I-AA National Championship in football and 18 Big Sky Conference Championships in men's and women's basketball. With these accomplishments has come increased notoriety and fan support on a local and national level. UM has developed into one of the premier I-AA institutions in the Country.

The financial composition of the athletic budget has changed over time as well. Increased expenses, especially in scholarship costs and salaries, have necessitated funding ways to meet these rising costs. Over the past ten years, the primary means by which funding has increased has been through generating more revenue. In contrast, the percentage of overall budget derived from State funds has decreased dramatically during this same period.

In fiscal year 1988, $1,319,374, representing 53% of total funding for intercollegiate athletics, came from State support. In fiscal year 1997, $2,012,115, representing just 32% of total funding came from State support. In FY 1988, $939,105, representing 38% of total funding that year, was generated revenue. In FY 1997, $2,923,518, representing 47% of overall funding came from generated revenue. The budgeted sources of revenue for FY 1998 are extremely close to actual FY 97. The trend over the past ten years is most evident; intercollegiate athletics has relied on significantly fewer State dollars and significantly more generated funds to support its increasingly successful programs.

Perhaps even more revealing than comparing the types of funding utilized at UM over time is a comparison of funding sources at our peer institutions. A review of other I-AA schools nationally, within the Big Sky Conference, and in the State of Montana demonstrates that UM Intercollegiate Athletics is receiving less State support, often times dramatically less, than our competitors.

In 1994, the year prior to UM's I-AA Football National Championship, Illinois State University conducted a survey of 24 universities which competed at the I-AA level. According to the results of this survey, The University of Montana ranked third in most revenue generated but only 13th in State support consisting of student fees, tuition
waivers, and appropriated funds.

More recently, Weber State University's Vice President for Administrative Services, Dr. Allen Simkins, compiled data regarding funding sources at all nine Big Sky Conference institutions for 1998-97. The figures demonstrate that UM received less State money than any other Big Sky schools. Totals for general fund plus student fees are as follows in descending order:

California State University - Northridge $3,053,000

Portland State University $2,960,040

California State University - Sacramento $2,918,998

Montana State University $2,589,280

Northern Arizona University $2,571,000

Idaho State University $2,561,120

Weber State University $2,408,835

Eastern Washington University $2,273,200

The University of Montana $1,917,059

Despite lagging behind in State support, UM reported the highest overall budget in 1996-97 due to generated revenue and contributions.

Finally, a comparison between sources of revenue at UM and MSU for fiscal year 1997 is useful. MSU derived 58% of its athletics budget from State funding while UM derived only 32% of its from the same sources. All told, MSU athletics received $1,122,084 more in State support than did UM athletics in FY 1997.

In summary, The University of Montana has capitalized on the successes of its athletic programs in numerous ways. One notable benefit has been the ability to generate more funds independently, therefore relieving the pressure on State funding while maintaining a balanced budget. However, expenses continue to rise and it has become increasingly difficult to find new sources of revenue to provide for the basic needs of our programs and to stay competitive. Increased costs have been incurred in recruiting, travel, scholarships, salaries, equipment, to name a few. All of these must be provided in an equitable manner to meet federal Title IX legislation requirements, further adding to the cost of doing business in NCAA Division I.

[JahGriz]

Heres a good article. Seems to give all sides.
-------------------
UM, MSU top spenders in Big Sky Conference

Is it excess, or commitment to winning?

By GEORGE GEISE, Great Falls Tribune Sports Editor, 4/22/04

For most of the 42 years the Big Sky Conference has conducted athletic
competition, the Montana Grizzlies and the Montana State Bobcats haven't
been the league's big spenders.

For many years, that tag belonged to schools like Boise State and
Nevada-Reno, which funded more ambitious programs and recruited more
aggressively than their Big Sky brethren.

But Boise, Reno and the University of Idaho all bolted from the Big Sky
during the 1990s, in search of the greener pastures offered by NCAA Division
I-A football. At the time, Boise State and Reno were spending "a lot more
than the rest," said Doug Fullerton, Big Sky commissioner who formerly
worked as athletic director at Montana State.

When Reno left the conference in 1992 and Boise in 1996, each was spending
in excess of $5 million per year on athletics. In 1992, UM was spending $3.7
million and MSU $3.5 million, and both were thinking seriously about
dropping to Division II to save money.

More than a decade later, the Grizzlies and Bobcats find themselves as the
Big Sky's front-runners when it comes to spending -- and raising -- money
for athletics.

UM's budget is expected to top $10 million this year, while MSU's is closer
to $8.2 million. At the same time, both schools are wrestling with deficits
in their athletics budgets. UM's spending is the subject of an investigation
ordered by the state Board of Regents.

The schools now confront a perception dilemma: The successes of their
programs breed increased expectations. But the larger budgets and financial
problems raise questions about excess.

Marie Porter, UM interim athletic director, believes spending levels are
appropriate. She said the Treasure State schools invest more money in
intercollegiate athletics because Montanans care more about their programs.

"It's important to take into consideration the expectations of each
institution in the region," said Porter, who took over management of the
athletic department in March.

"Certainly at UM, our goal is to win championships," Porter said. "That's
important to the people of the state. There may be a different feeling at
other Big Sky schools."

Different status

Porter noted that UM and MSU are the flagship units of the higher education
system in Montana, which also operates smaller campuses at MSU-Billings,
MSU-Northern, UM-Western and Montana Tech.

The other six Big Sky institutions don't enjoy such elite status in their
home states.


Idaho State clearly is the No. 3 institution of higher learning in Idaho,
where Boise State and UI dominate the Gem State sports horizon.

Northern Arizona is a third wheel in its state, where the Arizona Wildcats
and Arizona State Sun Devils run big-time, big-budget programs that compete
at a national level.

Eastern Washington also operates in the huge shadow cast by Washington and
Washington State, Pac-10 Conference powers in several sports.

Similarly, Portland State endures third-string status below Pac-10 programs
at Oregon and Oregon State.

In Utah, Weber State struggles for recognition in a crowded playing field
that includes Division I-A schools Utah, Utah State and Brigham Young.

In California, Sacramento State draws little attention from sports fans who
can choose from more than a dozen state universities with national
reputations.
"It's a good place for Montana and Montana State to be," said Porter. "A
school like Weber State does a nice job in athletics, but the expectations
(of Utah fans) simply aren't the same as we have here."

Cost overruns

Wayne Hogan resigned March 3 as athletic director at UM after the revelation
that his department overspent its budget by about $981,000. That news came
just a few months after Hogan told the state Board of Regents the program
had a $200,000 surplus. UM President George Dennison said he had no
knowledge of the problem.

Accounting errors are blamed for about $381,000 of UM's deficit. Large
charter-plane expenses for a football trip to Maine last August, plus a
$150,000 guaranteed payment to the Idaho Vandals for a football appearance,
also were cited as major factors.

Questions about department mismanagement were serious enough that
Commissioner of Higher Education Sheila Stearns appointed a special
committee to investigate the problems. The panel is expected to present its
findings at a regents' meeting in Havre on May 20.

MSU woes

Montana State has its own financial woes, with the athletic department
running about $400,000 in the red this fiscal year. Accounting problems also
are being blamed in Bozeman.

And in the wake of such numbers, both schools' programs are being
scrutinized by supporters and critics alike.

"We are always trying to review what we're doing and how we're operating,"
said Peter Fields, MSU athletic director. "Everybody's awareness is
heightened right now because of what's happening at UM."

Administrators at other Big Sky schools also have noticed UM's problems.

"Montana's been on the edge of some pretty good things. To be honest with
you, programs that are on that edge tend to spend a little bit more," said
Terry Wanless, athletic director at Sacramento State. "That's the nature of
the beast. You kind of get caught up in what you think you have to do to
maintain that level of success."

Wanless said the problems in Missoula caught other league schools off guard.

"Everybody's surprised with the budget problems that they're having. In a
heartbeat you can be $100,000 or $200,000 off ... (but) a million is a
little on the edge," he said. "I guess I'm concerned about any institution
that experiences these kinds of problems, because it tends to reflect back
on all of us.

"You don't take any pleasure in seeing other people struggle professionally.
That's not what we're trying to do. We're trying to create an opportunity
for a student athlete to experience the good things about collegiate life."

Big Sky budgets

Every two years, Commissioner Doug Fullerton asks Big Sky schools to provide
details about their sports budgets. The most recent survey in 2002-03 showed
UM spent about $9.7 million on athletics, followed by Montana State at $8.4
million, and Sacramento State at $8.1 million.

This fiscal year, the school will spend a little more than $10 million on
athletics, said Bob Duringer, vice president for administration and finance
at UM.

"You can spin Doug's numbers in a lot of ways," Duringer said. "But I would
say our current budget would be slightly over $10 million. That would be in
the ballpark."

MSU's budget actually is slightly lower than the 2002-03 numbers, Fields
said.

"I have us currently at $8,176,000," Fields said. "There were some expenses
moved to the general fund last year in a few areas. ... I expect us to be at
$8.1 million or less next year."

According to the 2002-03 study, the other five Big Sky schools spent between
$5.5 million (Eastern Washington) and $7.5 million (both Portland State and
Northern Arizona). Eastern Washington's outlay is lower partially because
its coaches also teach and some of their expenses are allotted to
instructional budgets.

UM and MSU also rank 1-2 in the key component of "earned revenue," or money
generated directly from athletic programs such as gate receipts, advertising
sponsorships and booster donations.

In this category, the Grizzlies are in a league of their own. UM raised
about $5.9 million of its own budget, while Montana State was a distant
second with $3.3 in earned revenue. Most other Big Sky schools raised $2
million or less of their own funds.

"Montana ranks in the top 10 percent nationally among I-AA schools with
about 60 percent (of operating budget) coming from earned income," Fullerton
said.

"But the same success has made them more fragile," Fullerton added. "The
more of their own money they produce, the less they receive (by percentage)
from the state."

Less state money

UM and MSU are allocated state money based on enrollment, and each campus
decides where to spend those funds. Duringer said 2.3 percent of UM's state
funds go toward athletics, "and that (percentage) hasn't changed in about 10
years."

UM athletics got $1.9 million from the general fund for the 2002-03 fiscal
year, plus about $1.3 million in fee waivers for scholarships. UM collected
about $630,000 in student fees -- the lowest total in the Big Sky.

UM's "unearned income" of about $3.9 million compares with about $4.9
million in state money allocated to athletics by MSU. The Bozeman campus
also collects almost $200,000 more than UM in student fees.

Still, both UM and MSU receive less state support than other Big Sky
schools.

At Sacramento State, for example, almost $6.4 million comes from state
subsidies and student fees, while the Hornets raise only about $1.6 million
through their athletic programs.

Idaho State receives more than $5 million in state funding, yet produces
less than $2 million. Portland State at $4.7 million and Northern Arizona at
$4.8 million also receive much more state funding than UM.

Fullerton said the biggest difference between I-A and I-AA schools is their
ability to generate revenue through fan-based support.

"The average I-A schools get 85 percent (of their budget) in earned income,"
said Fullerton. "For schools like Michigan and Nebraska, it's more than
that."

Montana doesn't do that well, but the Grizzlies function more like the I-A
schools than the majority of I-AA schools.

"We certainly think it's appropriate to spend more money since we also
generate much more revenue than other Big Sky schools," said Porter.

Cash cow at UM

A lot of Montana's money pours in because of its powerhouse football
program, which won I-AA national championships in 1995 and 2002, and
finished second in 1996 and 2001.

The Grizzlies attract about 23,000 fans for each game at Washington-Grizzly
Stadium -- almost double the attendance of any other school in the league.
Montana State drew a record 12,059 fans per game last fall at Bobcat Stadium
in Bozeman. Most other league schools are lucky to draw 8,000 spectators
each week.

Two years ago, UM took in almost $2 million from football ticket sales, and
that was before its stadium expanded by about 4,500 seats. This fall, when
UM has seven home games, the school expects to rake in about $2.5 million at
the gate.

The estimated 160,000 fans who will attend those Grizzly games will buy a
lot of hot dogs, soft drinks and merchandise at the stadium. But income from
sports-related concessions isn't included on the UM athletics balance sheet.

All concessions revenue at UM, whether from football, basketball or other
sporting events, goes into a fund to pay off the debt at Adams Center, which
underwent a $16 million renovation a few years ago.

Montana State listed $50,000 in concessions revenue. "Our campus food
service runs concessions and they give us a flat fee for concessions," said
Fields.

The athletic departments at UM and MSU don't receive money from the sale of
license plates or athletic apparel such as caps or sweatshirts. Those funds
go into general university accounts.

Coaching salaries

Coaching salaries and related benefits (insurance, retirement funds, etc.)
are a big-ticket item for all athletic programs.

The most successful football program in the Big Sky pays the highest
salaries. UM has won or shared the Big Sky championship the past six years,
and has qualified for the I-AA playoffs 11 straight years.

According to a Big Sky Conference personnel survey for the 2003-04 fiscal
year, UM spent $403,500 on coaches' pay, including a base salary of $105,000
for head football coach Bobby Hauck. Portland State head coach Tim Walsh was
the league leader at $113,000, while Sac State head coach Steve Mooshagian
also got $105,000.

Still, football success doesn't always correlate with the money paid for
coaching salaries. The Big Sky's worst football program -- Sacramento State
-- was No. 2 on the list for total coaching salaries at $385,424. MSU was
fourth at $350,206.

Mike Kramer at MSU, who has guided the Bobcats to a share of the league
championship the past two years, was paid a base salary of $91,494. Kramer
also has a radio contract that is negotiated separately, while UM's Hauck
earns extra money through a TV show.

MSU was No. 1 in spending for men's basketball at $201,115, slightly more
than Weber State and UM. Montana paid its women's basketball staff $204,754,
about $40,000 more than the No. 2 program, Eastern Washington. MSU was third
at $157,532.

Hogan was the highest-paid athletic department employee at UM, making
$106,000.

School perks

Coaches and athletic staff at both UM and MSU have access to free
transportation. MSU has 20 courtesy cars, while UM has 32. Nobody else in
the Big Sky had more than 15 (Weber State) last year.

At MSU, Fields, Associate Athletic Director Dave Gantt, and another
assistant AD, Dan Davies, receive free memberships at Riverside Country
Club. No coaches have club memberships.

"That's a very common practice nationwide," Fields said. "We had those at
Missouri and Toledo and Kent State," he said, citing other schools where he
has worked.

At UM, only the athletic director and head football coach have school-funded
memberships at Missoula Country Club. "Those are paid out of foundation
money," said Director of Development Jim O'Day.

Porter said key people in the Big Sky Conference get similar perks.

"I know the commissioner (Fullerton in Ogden, Utah) has a country club
membership as part of his deal," she said. "We're all trying to cultivate
more corporate entities, at the league and school level. We cultivate
corporate and private donors, and it costs some money to do that. My guess
is it's a fairly common practice nationwide."

Bad reputation?

The deficits have brought added scrutiny to spending at both UM and MSU.
That, along with having the league's largest budgets, have created a
perception of excess that the schools say is undeserved.

"This certainly is a perception issue now, and frankly, that's much of what
the media have portrayed," Porter said. "The scrutiny extends from why we
purchase a tank of gas to airline tickets to every penny we spend. The more
people talk about it, it creates some perceptions.

"As far as the spending culture on campus, in day-to-day life, ask our
coaches or support staff and we pretty much pinch pennies. The gap between
perception and the reality is quite wide."

In response to the investigation, UM has trimmed costs. Lady Griz basketball
coach Robin Selvig planned to skip the Women's Final Four in New Orleans,
but wound up going because he was invited to speak at an NCAA clinic there.

"It (the Final Four) is not something Robin has always taken advantage of,"
Porter said. "This year, he hadn't intended to go, even though he deserved
it. I told him there was no way for us to pay to send him, but he found
money (from booster funds designated for Lady Griz basketball) to give that
speech."

Porter said UM is looking at reducing the number of people sent on road
trips, and at ways to cut travel costs without affecting the teams' ability
to compete.

"Clearly, travel squad size is certainly one area that we're taking a hard
look at," she said. "How we get to a place continues to be an issue. We have
to look at competitive advantages. We can't send teams on a bus at the risk
of it costing us a game, which would be much worse in the long run."

UM considered taking three buses to Portland next fall for a football game,
instead of chartering a plane. Busing 1,200 miles round-trip would have
saved about $24,000, but would have meant a three-day journey with more
class time missed.

UM soon will announce higher ticket prices for football games next fall, and
the cost of attending basketball events also may go up.

Former rivals

For fans wondering what happened to the former top spenders of the Big Sky,
they've gone on to mixed success in the big time of college athletics.

And it's cost them plenty, too.

Boise State has the best football program in the Western Athletic
Conference, winning bowl games the past two years while finishing among the
top 20 teams in the nation. The Broncos' athletic budget was $13.7 million
last year, and the school listed football expenses of $3.2 million.

Nevada-Reno -- now known only as "Nevada" -- has played in several leagues
the past 12 years and has been a middle-of-the-pack team in the WAC. But the
WolfPack basketball team qualified for the NCAA men's basketball tournament
this winter, for the first time in more than 30 years.

Nevada's sports budget was $14.4 last year, with $3.2 million devoted to
football expenses.

Idaho, which competes in the low-profile Sun Belt Conference, had a sports
budget of $9.6 million, a little less than UM. But the Vandals had
football-related expenses of $3.3 million, mainly because of high travel
costs plus the expense of paying for 85 scholarships -- 22 more than I-AA
schools offer.

[El_Gato]

...Athletic programs have improved and increased visibility on the Missoula campus during the past ten years...
Intercollegiate Athletics at The University of Montana has enjoyed unprecedented success in the past decade highlighted by a Division I-AA National Championship in football and 18 Big Sky Conference Championships in men's and women's basketball...

Jah, how exactly are we supposed to believe anything else in this propaganda when it LIES in just the first few lines?

I don't even have to go LOOK at the record books to know that the Griz & Lady Griz BBallers DIDN'T win 18 of the 20 Big Sky Conference Championships in the 90's.

PLUS, Jah,

You've proven my point: Even your almighty Grizzlies NEED taxpayer dollars in order to fund athletics at current levels. True, they use less than we do, but I would think that's to be expected with the success of Griz football.

[JahGriz]

So you are saying Geise is another arm of the UM propaganda machine, working undercover at the Trib.
I'd say he needs to get a better fact checker.
Of course UM needs tax dollars, but not at the rate MSU does.
If our admins would allocate the same percentage of tax money to athletics then the deficit problem wouldn't have even happended. Sure the other problems would have been there, but no deficit.
I don't know how much the schools make from concessions, but I'd bet they do pretty well with mens and womens hoops and football.
If they were creative, the accountants could take all the money from sources like these and logo gear and put it back in athletics, and see how much that could off-set tax money. Who knows, it could be close to being self sustaining...not that I would care if it was, I don't think that was the point. Only the top I-A with all the money rolling around can do that.

[El_Gato]

whatever, jah, the point here is that earlier, you were trying to claim that the Griz Athletic Department TURNS A PROFIT and that some of that profit goes into helping their academics.

You can now try to "spin" it anyway you want, but the point is your initial comment was INACCURATE, correct?

[Grizlaw]

I know that my graduate school experience showed me that undergraduates at top tier institutions work a hell of a lot harder than I had to at MSU and I guarantee that the experience is similar at UM. Get over yourselves.

FINALLY!! I've tried to convey this sentiment before on this board, but it always seems to get lost in all of the "We're better! No, WE'RE better!" back and forth between the alums of both schools.

Like PortlandCat, I also attended a graduate program where the generic State-U grads were greatly outnumbered by the Ivy League-and-other-exclusive-private-school grads. Because I worked hard at UM, I was plenty well prepared when I got there, but I will gladly attest to the fact that the bar was much higher there than it was at UM, and I am confident I would say the same had I gone to MSU.

The moral of the story is, there is no Harvard of the West, and there is a reason why the average Harvard grad (regardless of major) has better job options than the average UM or MSU grad.