2025 Breakout and Expected Improved Players

[coloradocat]

Kind of surprised that Caden Dowler hasn't gotten more notice here. His name popped up once or twice. Two ACL tears in two years, limited time on the field and the mental toll that would take on a young man. Now, here he is leading the defense and earning the most recent Defensive Player of the Week honor. Some of the talking heads on social media are mentioning him as Defensive Player of the Year in The Big Sky. That seems like a pretty big "Breakout"! Pretty remarkable.

I don't think he is a breakout player, he's been on the team and he has already shown that he is a great player, he just stayed hurt. I don't even see him as an improved player, again he's shown his ability level. He is more of a "come back" player of the year as opposed to break out. Now you are correct having two acl surgeries and having to stay "in the pocket" to come back is definitely something to take note of. And yes he is my defensive MVP for us, he allows us so much flexibility. I think this thread is about players that haven't shown to be stand out players or guys that haven't contributed and people think they will be key players. Caden was a key player and we know he can play, he just needed to stay healthy.

I think it's technically impossible to be both a captain and a breakout player at the same time.

[coloradocat]

Would like to bump up this thread and renew the discussion.
Who has been some of the most pleasant or biggest surprises that haven’t been mentioned yet?


#16 Brendan Ross to start has been outstanding on special teams and playing back up at nickel has been pretty darn impressive.
Our secondary has been a very pleasant surprise as well

Seth Brock at defensive end

I honestly don't know why the secondary is a pleasant surprise, I told everyone at the beginning of the year that they would be a standout group, regardless of their age. They are literally shutting down opposing offenses pass game. They don't even try to throw the ball past 5yds on either cb, maybe once every two games someone will try and it always ends up badly for them, lol. The secondary is exactly as they were advertised as freshmen. Johnson gets thrown at more so you can see him making plays...mcmillan you have to have an eye for what he is doing. teams literally are just not throwing at him, so he doesn't get much of a chance to make plays, but there have been several coverage sacks that he has created. You can even look at Howe is calling the game, he knows where the ball is going on pass plays...not at mcmillan, lol.

I knew seth was gonna be a dawg, any time you see a de running down on special teams, that means that kid has ability, and a lot of it. I'm excited to see him get more reps the bigger he gets.

Lamson is what I though the would be. A game changer like tommy but a completely different style of player and brings a new dimension to the offense. we are really balanced on offense....our pass game is deadly early, then when we need to lean on our run game we can.

cole train taylor has been the biggest breakout player in my opinion. From the first game he has been "on one". His ability to diagnose and get to the ball is allowing the dl to pin their ears and the secondary to just worry about the pass, definitely a key player for us.

C.Dowler isn't a break out player to me, he's been on the team and he has shown that when healthy is a heck of player. He is more like a bounce back player. Him being healthy has really been a shot in the arm to the defense. His availability has allowed the defense so much flexibility, he is easily our defensive MVP.

You were right about the secondary but that doesn't take anything away from them being (more than) a pleasant surprise. They all came into the season young and unproven and probably the group with the highest risk because of that. They've exceeded everyone's expectations (except yours I suppose).

I agree on Taylor being the biggest breakout player. Nobody saw that coming, especially so immediately.

[BobcatBuiltTexan]

Would like to bump up this thread and renew the discussion.
Who has been some of the most pleasant or biggest surprises that haven’t been mentioned yet?


#16 Brendan Ross to start has been outstanding on special teams and playing back up at nickel has been pretty darn impressive.
Our secondary has been a very pleasant surprise as well

Seth Brock at defensive end

I honestly don't know why the secondary is a pleasant surprise, I told everyone at the beginning of the year that they would be a standout group, regardless of their age. They are literally shutting down opposing offenses pass game. They don't even try to throw the ball past 5yds on either cb, maybe once every two games someone will try and it always ends up badly for them, lol. The secondary is exactly as they were advertised as freshmen. Johnson gets thrown at more so you can see him making plays...mcmillan you have to have an eye for what he is doing. teams literally are just not throwing at him, so he doesn't get much of a chance to make plays, but there have been several coverage sacks that he has created. You can even look at Howe is calling the game, he knows where the ball is going on pass plays...not at mcmillan, lol.

I knew seth was gonna be a dawg, any time you see a de running down on special teams, that means that kid has ability, and a lot of it. I'm excited to see him get more reps the bigger he gets.

Lamson is what I though the would be. A game changer like tommy but a completely different style of player and brings a new dimension to the offense. we are really balanced on offense....our pass game is deadly early, then when we need to lean on our run game we can.

cole train taylor has been the biggest breakout player in my opinion. From the first game he has been "on one". His ability to diagnose and get to the ball is allowing the dl to pin their ears and the secondary to just worry about the pass, definitely a key player for us.

C.Dowler isn't a break out player to me, he's been on the team and he has shown that when healthy is a heck of player. He is more like a bounce back player. Him being healthy has really been a shot in the arm to the defense. His availability has allowed the defense so much flexibility, he is easily our defensive MVP.

Now, now...you weren't the only one. I, and a few others, recognized they would be good about the time Polidore and Powdrell transferred out. I actually was letting people know that McMillan, Boyd and Ross had a good chance of being solid players here right when they signed. My logic being that if you're an All-District player in Texas and run 10.3-10.6 100m, there's a good chance you'll excel in the BSC. McMillan is starting. Boyd has been a special teams ace and Ross really stood out against Weber State as he ended up leading the team in tackles and had a great stop on a special teams play.

I agree that Taylor has been the biggest breakout/surprise.

Dowler is/was so unsung and that last game put him on everyone's radar. I bet he runs a sub-11 100m now. McMillan is probably now at 10.2, Boyd 10.4, Ross 10.5, Grebe 11.1, Daily 11.1, Gray 11.0. Just a ton of speed in that back 7. Ahrens has great sideline to sideline mobility. I know that a lot of the players that come to MSU get significantly faster once they get in the training program.

LOLOLOL.....ok ok ok....I wasn't the ONLY one but we are a part of just a few people that weren't questioning the validity of our secondary....those dowler boys are just dawgs, so fun to watch play. I'm sure their family is super duper proud of them. these last two games are going to be identified as playoff games in the locker room...which is great because they will be nice a tuned for the actual playoffs.

[BobcatBuiltTexan]

Kind of surprised that Caden Dowler hasn't gotten more notice here. His name popped up once or twice. Two ACL tears in two years, limited time on the field and the mental toll that would take on a young man. Now, here he is leading the defense and earning the most recent Defensive Player of the Week honor. Some of the talking heads on social media are mentioning him as Defensive Player of the Year in The Big Sky. That seems like a pretty big "Breakout"! Pretty remarkable.

I don't think he is a breakout player, he's been on the team and he has already shown that he is a great player, he just stayed hurt. I don't even see him as an improved player, again he's shown his ability level. He is more of a "come back" player of the year as opposed to break out. Now you are correct having two acl surgeries and having to stay "in the pocket" to come back is definitely something to take note of. And yes he is my defensive MVP for us, he allows us so much flexibility. I think this thread is about players that haven't shown to be stand out players or guys that haven't contributed and people think they will be key players. Caden was a key player and we know he can play, he just needed to stay healthy.

I think it's technically impossible to be both a captain and a breakout player at the same time.

Yes and no......i get where you are going with it but there are a lot of teams that will elect a team captain and they may not be the best player or even a large contributing player. Sometimes they are just great leaders and locker room guys. Doesn't happen a lot per se but I have seen it happen...but again i agree on the basis of your thought kind of hard to be a break out player and you're a captain.

[JoeCatsJoe]

BBT, you are absolutely correct. You were pounding the table for these guys, and I, along with others, were a bit skeptical. No more, as they have proven to be perhaps the best secondary in the country. Plays like the deep pass from Weber to setup their only legitimate TD are shocking, cuz they rarely happen!! Out of curiosity, how do you think we’ll handle a guy like wortham? Will that provide some unique challenges, or will we handle him like we handled Cheeks (pause.) I trust your football knowledge, and am curious on your thoughts.

[technoCat]

Would like to bump up this thread and renew the discussion.
Who has been some of the most pleasant or biggest surprises that haven’t been mentioned yet?


#16 Brendan Ross to start has been outstanding on special teams and playing back up at nickel has been pretty darn impressive.
Our secondary has been a very pleasant surprise as well

Seth Brock at defensive end

I honestly don't know why the secondary is a pleasant surprise, I told everyone at the beginning of the year that they would be a standout group, regardless of their age. They are literally shutting down opposing offenses pass game. They don't even try to throw the ball past 5yds on either cb, maybe once every two games someone will try and it always ends up badly for them, lol. The secondary is exactly as they were advertised as freshmen. Johnson gets thrown at more so you can see him making plays...mcmillan you have to have an eye for what he is doing. teams literally are just not throwing at him, so he doesn't get much of a chance to make plays, but there have been several coverage sacks that he has created. You can even look at Howe is calling the game, he knows where the ball is going on pass plays...not at mcmillan, lol.

I knew seth was gonna be a dawg, any time you see a de running down on special teams, that means that kid has ability, and a lot of it. I'm excited to see him get more reps the bigger he gets.

Lamson is what I though the would be. A game changer like tommy but a completely different style of player and brings a new dimension to the offense. we are really balanced on offense....our pass game is deadly early, then when we need to lean on our run game we can.

cole train taylor has been the biggest breakout player in my opinion. From the first game he has been "on one". His ability to diagnose and get to the ball is allowing the dl to pin their ears and the secondary to just worry about the pass, definitely a key player for us.

C.Dowler isn't a break out player to me, he's been on the team and he has shown that when healthy is a heck of player. He is more like a bounce back player. Him being healthy has really been a shot in the arm to the defense. His availability has allowed the defense so much flexibility, he is easily our defensive MVP.

You were right about the secondary but that doesn't take anything away from them being (more than) a pleasant surprise. They all came into the season young and unproven and probably the group with the highest risk because of that. They've exceeded everyone's expectations (except yours I suppose).

I agree on Taylor being the biggest breakout player. Nobody saw that coming, especially so immediately.

I didn't doubt that we had the dudes in the secondary to be good, I just didn't know that they would come out and dominate so quickly. I kinda figured we would be in dog fights most of the year and they would be rounding into form about now. So cool how Vigen and company rotate so that even guys that aren't officially starters get opportunities to shine and they sure have been taking advantage!

[coloradocat]

Would like to bump up this thread and renew the discussion.
Who has been some of the most pleasant or biggest surprises that haven’t been mentioned yet?


#16 Brendan Ross to start has been outstanding on special teams and playing back up at nickel has been pretty darn impressive.
Our secondary has been a very pleasant surprise as well

Seth Brock at defensive end

I honestly don't know why the secondary is a pleasant surprise, I told everyone at the beginning of the year that they would be a standout group, regardless of their age. They are literally shutting down opposing offenses pass game. They don't even try to throw the ball past 5yds on either cb, maybe once every two games someone will try and it always ends up badly for them, lol. The secondary is exactly as they were advertised as freshmen. Johnson gets thrown at more so you can see him making plays...mcmillan you have to have an eye for what he is doing. teams literally are just not throwing at him, so he doesn't get much of a chance to make plays, but there have been several coverage sacks that he has created. You can even look at Howe is calling the game, he knows where the ball is going on pass plays...not at mcmillan, lol.

I knew seth was gonna be a dawg, any time you see a de running down on special teams, that means that kid has ability, and a lot of it. I'm excited to see him get more reps the bigger he gets.

Lamson is what I though the would be. A game changer like tommy but a completely different style of player and brings a new dimension to the offense. we are really balanced on offense....our pass game is deadly early, then when we need to lean on our run game we can.

cole train taylor has been the biggest breakout player in my opinion. From the first game he has been "on one". His ability to diagnose and get to the ball is allowing the dl to pin their ears and the secondary to just worry about the pass, definitely a key player for us.

C.Dowler isn't a break out player to me, he's been on the team and he has shown that when healthy is a heck of player. He is more like a bounce back player. Him being healthy has really been a shot in the arm to the defense. His availability has allowed the defense so much flexibility, he is easily our defensive MVP.

You were right about the secondary but that doesn't take anything away from them being (more than) a pleasant surprise. They all came into the season young and unproven and probably the group with the highest risk because of that. They've exceeded everyone's expectations (except yours I suppose).

I agree on Taylor being the biggest breakout player. Nobody saw that coming, especially so immediately.

I didn't doubt that we had the dudes in the secondary to be good, I just didn't know that they would come out and dominate so quickly. I kinda figured we would be in dog fights most of the year and they would be rounding into form about now. So cool how Vigen and company rotate so that even guys that aren't officially starters get opportunities to shine and they sure have been taking advantage!

Yeah, I think we all thought/hoped they would become good players, just not that they'd play like veterans practically from day 1.

[BobcatBuiltTexan]

BBT, you are absolutely correct. You were pounding the table for these guys, and I, along with others, were a bit skeptical. No more, as they have proven to be perhaps the best secondary in the country. Plays like the deep pass from Weber to setup their only legitimate TD are shocking, cuz they rarely happen!! Out of curiosity, how do you think we’ll handle a guy like wortham? Will that provide some unique challenges, or will we handle him like we handled Cheeks (pause.) I trust your football knowledge, and am curious on your thoughts.

The deep pass from Weber was a coverage bust by the safety. Their eyes were bad and they didn't get over the top. But that is the kind of play I'm talking about. That was a busted coverage, but because of Jhase's speed he got there at the same time as the ball(he was at least 20yds away) and we line up and have a chance to limit it to 3pts...i mean we didn't but we had a chance.

Honestly I need to look at a Griz game to assess what I think they will do. KISS......Keep It Simple Stupid.....lol...an old coach taught me that. When you play good teams and you have a good team, there's no need to get fancy or quirky, just keep it simple. I see us lining up and truly believing that ours are better than theirs. They won't have the same scheme as they did against Cheeks. I think because of Bobby's personality we can't take the same approach. We'll do a lot of man because the primary goal will be to stop the run game. If we can contain Gillman and make the day frustrating for him we will be just fine.....

Wortham key stats......NDU 3 rec 17yds....Idaho 5 rec 55yds....weber st 2rec 8yds......he's not a big dude and his speed 4.41 isn't scaring our cbs cause they are all faster than him. He has big games against bad teams, which he should do. Against good teams he's very spotty and none of his games were great games. I don't see him being a bigger threat than Cheeks was in the pass game. Where I see MSU needing to have a great game plan is in the kicking game, that's where I see him possibly hurting us. I also would be worried about where they are going to line him up, I see them trying to attack our safeties more so than attack our cbs, so personally I'd like to see MSU have either cb play man on him all day any time he is on their side of the field, playing zone around them...not a hard thing to do cause they'll try to motion him to get him open and in those situations we spin down and take speed off him playing cov 3 behind it, heck I would even auto blitz opposite when he goes in motion to force the ball to come out quick.

[JoeCatsJoe]

BBT, you are absolutely correct. You were pounding the table for these guys, and I, along with others, were a bit skeptical. No more, as they have proven to be perhaps the best secondary in the country. Plays like the deep pass from Weber to setup their only legitimate TD are shocking, cuz they rarely happen!! Out of curiosity, how do you think we’ll handle a guy like wortham? Will that provide some unique challenges, or will we handle him like we handled Cheeks (pause.) I trust your football knowledge, and am curious on your thoughts.

The deep pass from Weber was a coverage bust by the safety. Their eyes were bad and they didn't get over the top. But that is the kind of play I'm talking about. That was a busted coverage, but because of Jhase's speed he got there at the same time as the ball(he was at least 20yds away) and we line up and have a chance to limit it to 3pts...i mean we didn't but we had a chance.

Honestly I need to look at a Griz game to assess what I think they will do. KISS......Keep It Simple Stupid.....lol...an old coach taught me that. When you play good teams and you have a good team, there's no need to get fancy or quirky, just keep it simple. I see us lining up and truly believing that ours are better than theirs. They won't have the same scheme as they did against Cheeks. I think because of Bobby's personality we can't take the same approach. We'll do a lot of man because the primary goal will be to stop the run game. If we can contain Gillman and make the day frustrating for him we will be just fine.....

Wortham key stats......NDU 3 rec 17yds....Idaho 5 rec 55yds....weber st 2rec 8yds......he's not a big dude and his speed 4.41 isn't scaring our cbs cause they are all faster than him. He has big games against bad teams, which he should do. Against good teams he's very spotty and none of his games were great games. I don't see him being a bigger threat than Cheeks was in the pass game. Where I see MSU needing to have a great game plan is in the kicking game, that's where I see him possibly hurting us. I also would be worried about where they are going to line him up, I see them trying to attack our safeties more so than attack our cbs, so personally I'd like to see MSU have either cb play man on him all day any time he is on their side of the field, playing zone around them...not a hard thing to do cause they'll try to motion him to get him open and in those situations we spin down and take speed off him playing cov 3 behind it, heck I would even auto blitz opposite when he goes in motion to force the ball to come out quick.

I'm glad we have some people that have real football knowledge like yourself lol. That's an insightful outlook. They will definitely throw the kitchen sink at us, and I think we need to be ready and maybe even do that too! I do feel like we are uniquely equipped to handle their big play makers, with excellent cover cbs with speed on wortham, as you point out, and a dline that doesn't allow anyone to run on us. We might be in a good spot to take away both of their home run hitters. Thanks for giving your educated thoughts.

[BobcatBuiltTexan]

BBT, you are absolutely correct. You were pounding the table for these guys, and I, along with others, were a bit skeptical. No more, as they have proven to be perhaps the best secondary in the country. Plays like the deep pass from Weber to setup their only legitimate TD are shocking, cuz they rarely happen!! Out of curiosity, how do you think we’ll handle a guy like wortham? Will that provide some unique challenges, or will we handle him like we handled Cheeks (pause.) I trust your football knowledge, and am curious on your thoughts.

The deep pass from Weber was a coverage bust by the safety. Their eyes were bad and they didn't get over the top. But that is the kind of play I'm talking about. That was a busted coverage, but because of Jhase's speed he got there at the same time as the ball(he was at least 20yds away) and we line up and have a chance to limit it to 3pts...i mean we didn't but we had a chance.

Honestly I need to look at a Griz game to assess what I think they will do. KISS......Keep It Simple Stupid.....lol...an old coach taught me that. When you play good teams and you have a good team, there's no need to get fancy or quirky, just keep it simple. I see us lining up and truly believing that ours are better than theirs. They won't have the same scheme as they did against Cheeks. I think because of Bobby's personality we can't take the same approach. We'll do a lot of man because the primary goal will be to stop the run game. If we can contain Gillman and make the day frustrating for him we will be just fine.....

Wortham key stats......NDU 3 rec 17yds....Idaho 5 rec 55yds....weber st 2rec 8yds......he's not a big dude and his speed 4.41 isn't scaring our cbs cause they are all faster than him. He has big games against bad teams, which he should do. Against good teams he's very spotty and none of his games were great games. I don't see him being a bigger threat than Cheeks was in the pass game. Where I see MSU needing to have a great game plan is in the kicking game, that's where I see him possibly hurting us. I also would be worried about where they are going to line him up, I see them trying to attack our safeties more so than attack our cbs, so personally I'd like to see MSU have either cb play man on him all day any time he is on their side of the field, playing zone around them...not a hard thing to do cause they'll try to motion him to get him open and in those situations we spin down and take speed off him playing cov 3 behind it, heck I would even auto blitz opposite when he goes in motion to force the ball to come out quick.

I'm glad we have some people that have real football knowledge like yourself lol. That's an insightful outlook. They will definitely throw the kitchen sink at us, and I think we need to be ready and maybe even do that too! I do feel like we are uniquely equipped to handle their big play makers, with excellent cover cbs with speed on wortham, as you point out, and a dline that doesn't allow anyone to run on us. We might be in a good spot to take away both of their home run hitters. Thanks for giving your educated thoughts.

I agree, they are going to throw some stuff at us that we haven't seen, hence why I said KISS. If everyone knows their job and executes we will be just fine because I don't think they are more athletic than we are. The level of complimentary defense we play is outstanding. Because our dbs can cover so well it frees up the dl and lbs. they can just sit on all runs, lbs can get caught up in the PA and it doesn't matter cause our dbs cover so well. Our dl can focus on stopping the run because it isn't imperative they get a great pass rush off rip cause our dbs can cover so well, by they time the wr would get open the dl has converted their run stop tech to pass rush tech and the qb has to either throw in coverage or take off and run.

[HelenaCat95]

BBT, you are absolutely correct. You were pounding the table for these guys, and I, along with others, were a bit skeptical. No more, as they have proven to be perhaps the best secondary in the country. Plays like the deep pass from Weber to setup their only legitimate TD are shocking, cuz they rarely happen!! Out of curiosity, how do you think we’ll handle a guy like wortham? Will that provide some unique challenges, or will we handle him like we handled Cheeks (pause.) I trust your football knowledge, and am curious on your thoughts.

The deep pass from Weber was a coverage bust by the safety. Their eyes were bad and they didn't get over the top. But that is the kind of play I'm talking about. That was a busted coverage, but because of Jhase's speed he got there at the same time as the ball(he was at least 20yds away) and we line up and have a chance to limit it to 3pts...i mean we didn't but we had a chance.

Honestly I need to look at a Griz game to assess what I think they will do. KISS......Keep It Simple Stupid.....lol...an old coach taught me that. When you play good teams and you have a good team, there's no need to get fancy or quirky, just keep it simple. I see us lining up and truly believing that ours are better than theirs. They won't have the same scheme as they did against Cheeks. I think because of Bobby's personality we can't take the same approach. We'll do a lot of man because the primary goal will be to stop the run game. If we can contain Gillman and make the day frustrating for him we will be just fine.....

Wortham key stats......NDU 3 rec 17yds....Idaho 5 rec 55yds....weber st 2rec 8yds......he's not a big dude and his speed 4.41 isn't scaring our cbs cause they are all faster than him. He has big games against bad teams, which he should do. Against good teams he's very spotty and none of his games were great games. I don't see him being a bigger threat than Cheeks was in the pass game. Where I see MSU needing to have a great game plan is in the kicking game, that's where I see him possibly hurting us. I also would be worried about where they are going to line him up, I see them trying to attack our safeties more so than attack our cbs, so personally I'd like to see MSU have either cb play man on him all day any time he is on their side of the field, playing zone around them...not a hard thing to do cause they'll try to motion him to get him open and in those situations we spin down and take speed off him playing cov 3 behind it, heck I would even auto blitz opposite when he goes in motion to force the ball to come out quick.

I'm glad we have some people that have real football knowledge like yourself lol. That's an insightful outlook. They will definitely throw the kitchen sink at us, and I think we need to be ready and maybe even do that too! I do feel like we are uniquely equipped to handle their big play makers, with excellent cover cbs with speed on wortham, as you point out, and a dline that doesn't allow anyone to run on us. We might be in a good spot to take away both of their home run hitters. Thanks for giving your educated thoughts.

I agree, they are going to throw some stuff at us that we haven't seen, hence why I said KISS. If everyone knows their job and executes we will be just fine because I don't think they are more athletic than we are. The level of complimentary defense we play is outstanding. Because our dbs can cover so well it frees up the dl and lbs. they can just sit on all runs, lbs can get caught up in the PA and it doesn't matter cause our dbs cover so well. Our dl can focus on stopping the run because it isn't imperative they get a great pass rush off rip cause our dbs can cover so well, by they time the wr would get open the dl has converted their run stop tech to pass rush tech and the qb has to either throw in coverage or take off and run.

Love your analysis that you bring to the board BBT!
Question - if you were an offensive coordinator, how would you attack our defense? I know that a lot depends on the O personnel, and what your identity/style/philosopy is.....but just speaking broadly, how would you attack this defense?

[BobcatBuiltTexan]

BBT, you are absolutely correct. You were pounding the table for these guys, and I, along with others, were a bit skeptical. No more, as they have proven to be perhaps the best secondary in the country. Plays like the deep pass from Weber to setup their only legitimate TD are shocking, cuz they rarely happen!! Out of curiosity, how do you think we’ll handle a guy like wortham? Will that provide some unique challenges, or will we handle him like we handled Cheeks (pause.) I trust your football knowledge, and am curious on your thoughts.

The deep pass from Weber was a coverage bust by the safety. Their eyes were bad and they didn't get over the top. But that is the kind of play I'm talking about. That was a busted coverage, but because of Jhase's speed he got there at the same time as the ball(he was at least 20yds away) and we line up and have a chance to limit it to 3pts...i mean we didn't but we had a chance.

Honestly I need to look at a Griz game to assess what I think they will do. KISS......Keep It Simple Stupid.....lol...an old coach taught me that. When you play good teams and you have a good team, there's no need to get fancy or quirky, just keep it simple. I see us lining up and truly believing that ours are better than theirs. They won't have the same scheme as they did against Cheeks. I think because of Bobby's personality we can't take the same approach. We'll do a lot of man because the primary goal will be to stop the run game. If we can contain Gillman and make the day frustrating for him we will be just fine.....

Wortham key stats......NDU 3 rec 17yds....Idaho 5 rec 55yds....weber st 2rec 8yds......he's not a big dude and his speed 4.41 isn't scaring our cbs cause they are all faster than him. He has big games against bad teams, which he should do. Against good teams he's very spotty and none of his games were great games. I don't see him being a bigger threat than Cheeks was in the pass game. Where I see MSU needing to have a great game plan is in the kicking game, that's where I see him possibly hurting us. I also would be worried about where they are going to line him up, I see them trying to attack our safeties more so than attack our cbs, so personally I'd like to see MSU have either cb play man on him all day any time he is on their side of the field, playing zone around them...not a hard thing to do cause they'll try to motion him to get him open and in those situations we spin down and take speed off him playing cov 3 behind it, heck I would even auto blitz opposite when he goes in motion to force the ball to come out quick.

I'm glad we have some people that have real football knowledge like yourself lol. That's an insightful outlook. They will definitely throw the kitchen sink at us, and I think we need to be ready and maybe even do that too! I do feel like we are uniquely equipped to handle their big play makers, with excellent cover cbs with speed on wortham, as you point out, and a dline that doesn't allow anyone to run on us. We might be in a good spot to take away both of their home run hitters. Thanks for giving your educated thoughts.

I agree, they are going to throw some stuff at us that we haven't seen, hence why I said KISS. If everyone knows their job and executes we will be just fine because I don't think they are more athletic than we are. The level of complimentary defense we play is outstanding. Because our dbs can cover so well it frees up the dl and lbs. they can just sit on all runs, lbs can get caught up in the PA and it doesn't matter cause our dbs cover so well. Our dl can focus on stopping the run because it isn't imperative they get a great pass rush off rip cause our dbs can cover so well, by they time the wr would get open the dl has converted their run stop tech to pass rush tech and the qb has to either throw in coverage or take off and run.

Love your analysis that you bring to the board BBT!
Question - if you were an offensive coordinator, how would you attack our defense? I know that a lot depends on the O personnel, and what your identity/style/philosopy is.....but just speaking broadly, how would you attack this defense?

I appreciate the kind words....if I were to attack our defense in the run game I would utilize pull schemes to try to gain numbers and get a crease. I would be more inclined to attack our edges...down block by the TE/T, pull with the G, crack block on olb, allowing the rb to try to put a move on the S/cb or over power them with a good hard run. My philosophy would be to ground and pound looking to get 3yds and a cloud of dust trying to wear down the defense. passing wise I would try to run combo routes or flood the zone to stress one person. In both the pass and run game I would be looking to attack one to two people and put them in stress making them have to make a decision.

for example in the pass game and would run a levels concept with a roll out having my play side G pull out to pick up the force guy to buy time for my qb. I would have a TD, 1st down and check down option stressing the cb and the lb or the cb and S. if the backer scrapes the G should pick him up this means i'm going to the check down quickly..if backer doesn't scrape i'm looking TD to 1st down reading the cb..if the cb is deep i'm hitting the 1st down if the cb is in cloud coverage i'm letting the ball go to the TD(it would be more on the sideline to force that safety to get over the top and show their range). if nothing is open qb tucks and picks up what he can he isn't reading all options he's reading one maybe two guys and making a decision quick, if it isn't there run and get what you can.

running wise i'm not going big on big upfront cause that allows those backer to flow. i'm creating angles and i'm reading the dl so i'm either pulling the ball or giving based off their tech. this allows for my ol to get to the lbs and hopefully I can get that 3yds i talked about. i'm not running into the teeth of this defense, i'm going to make you run sideline to sideline and you are going to have to run through trash to get there. this gives my rb time to get to the edge/hole and pick up that 3yds before the swarm gets there.

if it were me I would attack dowler every play. he would be my read guy. I would try to wear him out making him make plays every single play with not only his mind but his body. I'm going to use his playmaking ability against him. he wants to support on the run i'm throwing the ball behind his head, he wants to sit back i'm blocking every body and making him make the play in space. he would either have the game of his life or he would make some plays early then due to the usage he'l slip up and I'll get a big play. This also is about playing complimentary football to your defense. I wouldn't mind playing a slow grinding offense if my defense is able to contain our offense. Another thing I would do is test those young cbs. I'd throw deep and make them make the plays and not expect them to make the play, they would have to prove to me they can cover wortham. I would be at home so I would look to try to make a big play to energize my stadium and use that to get in the heads of MSU.

Now all of that is easier said than done....lol. the ol has to give the qb time to throw a good ball. if the defense isn't stopping MSU's offense then I have to take more risks. I would be in full attack mode on offense the whole game....make those lbs run sideline to sideline every play, make those dl chase the qb/rb every play, make those dbs run 40-50yds every play...I'd put the pressure on them to not make a mistake.

[HelenaCat95]

BBT, you are absolutely correct. You were pounding the table for these guys, and I, along with others, were a bit skeptical. No more, as they have proven to be perhaps the best secondary in the country. Plays like the deep pass from Weber to setup their only legitimate TD are shocking, cuz they rarely happen!! Out of curiosity, how do you think we’ll handle a guy like wortham? Will that provide some unique challenges, or will we handle him like we handled Cheeks (pause.) I trust your football knowledge, and am curious on your thoughts.

The deep pass from Weber was a coverage bust by the safety. Their eyes were bad and they didn't get over the top. But that is the kind of play I'm talking about. That was a busted coverage, but because of Jhase's speed he got there at the same time as the ball(he was at least 20yds away) and we line up and have a chance to limit it to 3pts...i mean we didn't but we had a chance.

Honestly I need to look at a Griz game to assess what I think they will do. KISS......Keep It Simple Stupid.....lol...an old coach taught me that. When you play good teams and you have a good team, there's no need to get fancy or quirky, just keep it simple. I see us lining up and truly believing that ours are better than theirs. They won't have the same scheme as they did against Cheeks. I think because of Bobby's personality we can't take the same approach. We'll do a lot of man because the primary goal will be to stop the run game. If we can contain Gillman and make the day frustrating for him we will be just fine.....

Wortham key stats......NDU 3 rec 17yds....Idaho 5 rec 55yds....weber st 2rec 8yds......he's not a big dude and his speed 4.41 isn't scaring our cbs cause they are all faster than him. He has big games against bad teams, which he should do. Against good teams he's very spotty and none of his games were great games. I don't see him being a bigger threat than Cheeks was in the pass game. Where I see MSU needing to have a great game plan is in the kicking game, that's where I see him possibly hurting us. I also would be worried about where they are going to line him up, I see them trying to attack our safeties more so than attack our cbs, so personally I'd like to see MSU have either cb play man on him all day any time he is on their side of the field, playing zone around them...not a hard thing to do cause they'll try to motion him to get him open and in those situations we spin down and take speed off him playing cov 3 behind it, heck I would even auto blitz opposite when he goes in motion to force the ball to come out quick.

I'm glad we have some people that have real football knowledge like yourself lol. That's an insightful outlook. They will definitely throw the kitchen sink at us, and I think we need to be ready and maybe even do that too! I do feel like we are uniquely equipped to handle their big play makers, with excellent cover cbs with speed on wortham, as you point out, and a dline that doesn't allow anyone to run on us. We might be in a good spot to take away both of their home run hitters. Thanks for giving your educated thoughts.

I agree, they are going to throw some stuff at us that we haven't seen, hence why I said KISS. If everyone knows their job and executes we will be just fine because I don't think they are more athletic than we are. The level of complimentary defense we play is outstanding. Because our dbs can cover so well it frees up the dl and lbs. they can just sit on all runs, lbs can get caught up in the PA and it doesn't matter cause our dbs cover so well. Our dl can focus on stopping the run because it isn't imperative they get a great pass rush off rip cause our dbs can cover so well, by they time the wr would get open the dl has converted their run stop tech to pass rush tech and the qb has to either throw in coverage or take off and run.

Love your analysis that you bring to the board BBT!
Question - if you were an offensive coordinator, how would you attack our defense? I know that a lot depends on the O personnel, and what your identity/style/philosopy is.....but just speaking broadly, how would you attack this defense?

I appreciate the kind words....if I were to attack our defense in the run game I would utilize pull schemes to try to gain numbers and get a crease. I would be more inclined to attack our edges...down block by the TE/T, pull with the G, crack block on olb, allowing the rb to try to put a move on the S/cb or over power them with a good hard run. My philosophy would be to ground and pound looking to get 3yds and a cloud of dust trying to wear down the defense. passing wise I would try to run combo routes or flood the zone to stress one person. In both the pass and run game I would be looking to attack one to two people and put them in stress making them have to make a decision.

for example in the pass game and would run a levels concept with a roll out having my play side G pull out to pick up the force guy to buy time for my qb. I would have a TD, 1st down and check down option stressing the cb and the lb or the cb and S. if the backer scrapes the G should pick him up this means i'm going to the check down quickly..if backer doesn't scrape i'm looking TD to 1st down reading the cb..if the cb is deep i'm hitting the 1st down if the cb is in cloud coverage i'm letting the ball go to the TD(it would be more on the sideline to force that safety to get over the top and show their range). if nothing is open qb tucks and picks up what he can he isn't reading all options he's reading one maybe two guys and making a decision quick, if it isn't there run and get what you can.

running wise i'm not going big on big upfront cause that allows those backer to flow. i'm creating angles and i'm reading the dl so i'm either pulling the ball or giving based off their tech. this allows for my ol to get to the lbs and hopefully I can get that 3yds i talked about. i'm not running into the teeth of this defense, i'm going to make you run sideline to sideline and you are going to have to run through trash to get there. this gives my rb time to get to the edge/hole and pick up that 3yds before the swarm gets there.

if it were me I would attack dowler every play. he would be my read guy. I would try to wear him out making him make plays every single play with not only his mind but his body. I'm going to use his playmaking ability against him. he wants to support on the run i'm throwing the ball behind his head, he wants to sit back i'm blocking every body and making him make the play in space. he would either have the game of his life or he would make some plays early then due to the usage he'l slip up and I'll get a big play. This also is about playing complimentary football to your defense. I wouldn't mind playing a slow grinding offense if my defense is able to contain our offense. Another thing I would do is test those young cbs. I'd throw deep and make them make the plays and not expect them to make the play, they would have to prove to me they can cover wortham. I would be at home so I would look to try to make a big play to energize my stadium and use that to get in the heads of MSU.

Now all of that is easier said than done....lol. the ol has to give the qb time to throw a good ball. if the defense isn't stopping MSU's offense then I have to take more risks. I would be in full attack mode on offense the whole game....make those lbs run sideline to sideline every play, make those dl chase the qb/rb every play, make those dbs run 40-50yds every play...I'd put the pressure on them to not make a mistake.

Thank you for the well thought out answer.

[RickRund]

Would like to bump up this thread and renew the discussion.
Who has been some of the most pleasant or biggest surprises that haven’t been mentioned yet?


#16 Brendan Ross to start has been outstanding on special teams and playing back up at nickel has been pretty darn impressive.
Our secondary has been a very pleasant surprise as well

Seth Brock at defensive end

I honestly don't know why the secondary is a pleasant surprise, I told everyone at the beginning of the year that they would be a standout group, regardless of their age. They are literally shutting down opposing offenses pass game. They don't even try to throw the ball past 5yds on either cb, maybe once every two games someone will try and it always ends up badly for them, lol. The secondary is exactly as they were advertised as freshmen. Johnson gets thrown at more so you can see him making plays...mcmillan you have to have an eye for what he is doing. teams literally are just not throwing at him, so he doesn't get much of a chance to make plays, but there have been several coverage sacks that he has created. You can even look at Howe is calling the game, he knows where the ball is going on pass plays...not at mcmillan, lol.

I knew seth was gonna be a dawg, any time you see a de running down on special teams, that means that kid has ability, and a lot of it. I'm excited to see him get more reps the bigger he gets.

Lamson is what I though the would be. A game changer like tommy but a completely different style of player and brings a new dimension to the offense. we are really balanced on offense....our pass game is deadly early, then when we need to lean on our run game we can.

cole train taylor has been the biggest breakout player in my opinion. From the first game he has been "on one". His ability to diagnose and get to the ball is allowing the dl to pin their ears and the secondary to just worry about the pass, definitely a key player for us.

C.Dowler isn't a break out player to me, he's been on the team and he has shown that when healthy is a heck of player. He is more like a bounce back player. Him being healthy has really been a shot in the arm to the defense. His availability has allowed the defense so much flexibility, he is easily our defensive MVP.

Now, now...you weren't the only one. I, and a few others, recognized they would be good about the time Polidore and Powdrell transferred out. I actually was letting people know that McMillan, Boyd and Ross had a good chance of being solid players here right when they signed. My logic being that if you're an All-District player in Texas and run 10.3-10.6 100m, there's a good chance you'll excel in the BSC. McMillan is starting. Boyd has been a special teams ace and Ross really stood out against Weber State as he ended up leading the team in tackles and had a great stop on a special teams play.

I agree that Taylor has been the biggest breakout/surprise.

Dowler is/was so unsung and that last game put him on everyone's radar. I bet he runs a sub-11 100m now. McMillan is probably now at 10.2, Boyd 10.4, Ross 10.5, Grebe 11.1, Daily 11.1, Gray 11.0. Just a ton of speed in that back 7. Ahrens has great sideline to sideline mobility. I know that a lot of the players that come to MSU get significantly faster once they get in the training program.

I have seen a few comments on social media that our lack of speed will give the gris on us…

[BelligerentBobcat]

Would like to bump up this thread and renew the discussion.
Who has been some of the most pleasant or biggest surprises that haven’t been mentioned yet?


#16 Brendan Ross to start has been outstanding on special teams and playing back up at nickel has been pretty darn impressive.
Our secondary has been a very pleasant surprise as well

Seth Brock at defensive end

I honestly don't know why the secondary is a pleasant surprise, I told everyone at the beginning of the year that they would be a standout group, regardless of their age. They are literally shutting down opposing offenses pass game. They don't even try to throw the ball past 5yds on either cb, maybe once every two games someone will try and it always ends up badly for them, lol. The secondary is exactly as they were advertised as freshmen. Johnson gets thrown at more so you can see him making plays...mcmillan you have to have an eye for what he is doing. teams literally are just not throwing at him, so he doesn't get much of a chance to make plays, but there have been several coverage sacks that he has created. You can even look at Howe is calling the game, he knows where the ball is going on pass plays...not at mcmillan, lol.

I knew seth was gonna be a dawg, any time you see a de running down on special teams, that means that kid has ability, and a lot of it. I'm excited to see him get more reps the bigger he gets.

Lamson is what I though the would be. A game changer like tommy but a completely different style of player and brings a new dimension to the offense. we are really balanced on offense....our pass game is deadly early, then when we need to lean on our run game we can.

cole train taylor has been the biggest breakout player in my opinion. From the first game he has been "on one". His ability to diagnose and get to the ball is allowing the dl to pin their ears and the secondary to just worry about the pass, definitely a key player for us.

C.Dowler isn't a break out player to me, he's been on the team and he has shown that when healthy is a heck of player. He is more like a bounce back player. Him being healthy has really been a shot in the arm to the defense. His availability has allowed the defense so much flexibility, he is easily our defensive MVP.

Now, now...you weren't the only one. I, and a few others, recognized they would be good about the time Polidore and Powdrell transferred out. I actually was letting people know that McMillan, Boyd and Ross had a good chance of being solid players here right when they signed. My logic being that if you're an All-District player in Texas and run 10.3-10.6 100m, there's a good chance you'll excel in the BSC. McMillan is starting. Boyd has been a special teams ace and Ross really stood out against Weber State as he ended up leading the team in tackles and had a great stop on a special teams play.

I agree that Taylor has been the biggest breakout/surprise.

Dowler is/was so unsung and that last game put him on everyone's radar. I bet he runs a sub-11 100m now. McMillan is probably now at 10.2, Boyd 10.4, Ross 10.5, Grebe 11.1, Daily 11.1, Gray 11.0. Just a ton of speed in that back 7. Ahrens has great sideline to sideline mobility. I know that a lot of the players that come to MSU get significantly faster once they get in the training program.

I have seen a few comments on social media that our lack of speed will give the gris on us…

Rick, you gotta stop caring what people on Facebook are saying.

[CodyCat]

BBT, you are absolutely correct. You were pounding the table for these guys, and I, along with others, were a bit skeptical. No more, as they have proven to be perhaps the best secondary in the country. Plays like the deep pass from Weber to setup their only legitimate TD are shocking, cuz they rarely happen!! Out of curiosity, how do you think we’ll handle a guy like wortham? Will that provide some unique challenges, or will we handle him like we handled Cheeks (pause.) I trust your football knowledge, and am curious on your thoughts.

I’m still very skeptical. They need to be better.

Jokes. Jokes. They’ve been an absolute blast to watch.

[RickRund]

Would like to bump up this thread and renew the discussion.
Who has been some of the most pleasant or biggest surprises that haven’t been mentioned yet?


#16 Brendan Ross to start has been outstanding on special teams and playing back up at nickel has been pretty darn impressive.
Our secondary has been a very pleasant surprise as well

Seth Brock at defensive end

I honestly don't know why the secondary is a pleasant surprise, I told everyone at the beginning of the year that they would be a standout group, regardless of their age. They are literally shutting down opposing offenses pass game. They don't even try to throw the ball past 5yds on either cb, maybe once every two games someone will try and it always ends up badly for them, lol. The secondary is exactly as they were advertised as freshmen. Johnson gets thrown at more so you can see him making plays...mcmillan you have to have an eye for what he is doing. teams literally are just not throwing at him, so he doesn't get much of a chance to make plays, but there have been several coverage sacks that he has created. You can even look at Howe is calling the game, he knows where the ball is going on pass plays...not at mcmillan, lol.

I knew seth was gonna be a dawg, any time you see a de running down on special teams, that means that kid has ability, and a lot of it. I'm excited to see him get more reps the bigger he gets.

Lamson is what I though the would be. A game changer like tommy but a completely different style of player and brings a new dimension to the offense. we are really balanced on offense....our pass game is deadly early, then when we need to lean on our run game we can.

cole train taylor has been the biggest breakout player in my opinion. From the first game he has been "on one". His ability to diagnose and get to the ball is allowing the dl to pin their ears and the secondary to just worry about the pass, definitely a key player for us.

C.Dowler isn't a break out player to me, he's been on the team and he has shown that when healthy is a heck of player. He is more like a bounce back player. Him being healthy has really been a shot in the arm to the defense. His availability has allowed the defense so much flexibility, he is easily our defensive MVP.

Now, now...you weren't the only one. I, and a few others, recognized they would be good about the time Polidore and Powdrell transferred out. I actually was letting people know that McMillan, Boyd and Ross had a good chance of being solid players here right when they signed. My logic being that if you're an All-District player in Texas and run 10.3-10.6 100m, there's a good chance you'll excel in the BSC. McMillan is starting. Boyd has been a special teams ace and Ross really stood out against Weber State as he ended up leading the team in tackles and had a great stop on a special teams play.

I agree that Taylor has been the biggest breakout/surprise.

Dowler is/was so unsung and that last game put him on everyone's radar. I bet he runs a sub-11 100m now. McMillan is probably now at 10.2, Boyd 10.4, Ross 10.5, Grebe 11.1, Daily 11.1, Gray 11.0. Just a ton of speed in that back 7. Ahrens has great sideline to sideline mobility. I know that a lot of the players that come to MSU get significantly faster once they get in the training program.

I have seen a few comments on social media that our lack of speed will give the gris on us…

Rick, you gotta stop caring what people on Facebook are saying.

I know BB, but I just find it hilarious… I will stop

[kwcat]

BBT, you are absolutely correct. You were pounding the table for these guys, and I, along with others, were a bit skeptical. No more, as they have proven to be perhaps the best secondary in the country. Plays like the deep pass from Weber to setup their only legitimate TD are shocking, cuz they rarely happen!! Out of curiosity, how do you think we’ll handle a guy like wortham? Will that provide some unique challenges, or will we handle him like we handled Cheeks (pause.) I trust your football knowledge, and am curious on your thoughts.

I certainly had my concerns about the secondary. And those that thought they would be good. We’re definitely correct. I was cautiously optimistic that they would develop but didn’t think that they would develop as fast as they have.

[nanacat]

Article about FCS players who filled big shoes this year. Lamson gets a nod.
https://theanalyst.com/articles/fcs-foo ... RkcqSpoT4w