Coach Fish (Does he stay or go)

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Mtcatfan
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Re: Coach Fish (Does he stay or go)

Post by Mtcatfan » Wed Mar 13, 2019 8:20 am

If TD was coaching the Cat team and Coach Fish was coaching the Grizzlies, would the Cats win? I doubt it. The overall quality and depth of the Grizzly team is that much better. Recruiting is more important than the coach in this instance IMHO.



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Re: Coach Fish (Does he stay or go)

Post by technoCat » Wed Mar 13, 2019 9:26 am

GoldstoneCat wrote:
Wed Mar 13, 2019 7:29 am
On the subject of the OP, I'm a bit ambivalent. I think Fish has done some good things here (raised the level of our guard play and our offensive play in general) and struggled with others (terrible post/forward play for most of his tenure, bad defense). I'm quite frankly ok if he's given an extension of 1 year, 3 years, etc., but I'd certainly understand if Costello wanted to bring in his own guy at this point. Also, the human factor plays in here. Scenario: Fish has coached through the death of his daughter this year, the team has shown some promise, and narrowly lost a couple games that would have changed everyone's outlook tremendously. Let's say we beat Idaho, beat EWU, and lose a barnburner to UNC in the BSC semis. 4th place conference tourney finish, coupled with a team that was in the hunt for 3rd until the final days of the season, with all the adversity team and especially coach faced this year. Who's bringing him back, and who's not, if that scenario plays out?
I think Fish is a very good recruiter all around. Its just once they are here 1) can he keep them 2) can he develop them. I haven't really seen anyone get appreciably better over 4 years here besides maybe Frey.

We all know that we suck on defense but our strength was supposed to be offense and how many times have we seen them go cold for long periods of time when they could be putting a team away. Then they score 10 points in 30 seconds to make it look closer than it was.

We have 2 pretty much all-time great Bobcats playing together as a junior and senior and we only came in 6th. That right there is the reason that I don't think that Fish will ever get us over the top. When Tyler leaves this team will be in big trouble. I think even making a miracle run in the tournament would be fool's gold just like it was for Huse.


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Re: Coach Fish (Does he stay or go)

Post by WalkOn79 » Wed Mar 13, 2019 9:40 am

Mtcatfan wrote:
Wed Mar 13, 2019 8:20 am
If TD was coaching the Cat team and Coach Fish was coaching the Grizzlies, would the Cats win? I doubt it. The overall quality and depth of the Grizzly team is that much better. Recruiting is more important than the coach in this instance IMHO.
So who do you think recruits the players?

For what it's worth, I think Fish should stay, BTW.


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Re: Coach Fish (Does he stay or go)

Post by catatac » Wed Mar 13, 2019 9:43 am

technoCat wrote:
Wed Mar 13, 2019 9:26 am
GoldstoneCat wrote:
Wed Mar 13, 2019 7:29 am
On the subject of the OP, I'm a bit ambivalent. I think Fish has done some good things here (raised the level of our guard play and our offensive play in general) and struggled with others (terrible post/forward play for most of his tenure, bad defense). I'm quite frankly ok if he's given an extension of 1 year, 3 years, etc., but I'd certainly understand if Costello wanted to bring in his own guy at this point. Also, the human factor plays in here. Scenario: Fish has coached through the death of his daughter this year, the team has shown some promise, and narrowly lost a couple games that would have changed everyone's outlook tremendously. Let's say we beat Idaho, beat EWU, and lose a barnburner to UNC in the BSC semis. 4th place conference tourney finish, coupled with a team that was in the hunt for 3rd until the final days of the season, with all the adversity team and especially coach faced this year. Who's bringing him back, and who's not, if that scenario plays out?
I think Fish is a very good recruiter all around. Its just once they are here 1) can he keep them 2) can he develop them. I haven't really seen anyone get appreciably better over 4 years here besides maybe Frey.

We all know that we suck on defense but our strength was supposed to be offense and how many times have we seen them go cold for long periods of time when they could be putting a team away. Then they score 10 points in 30 seconds to make it look closer than it was.

We have 2 pretty much all-time great Bobcats playing together as a junior and senior and we only came in 6th. That right there is the reason that I don't think that Fish will ever get us over the top. When Tyler leaves this team will be in big trouble. I think even making a miracle run in the tournament would be fool's gold just like it was for Huse.
I agree with this for the most part, but I'd disagree with your last sentence. If the Cats win the tourney, make it to the dance, and show well....... I'd keep Fish for another year.


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Re: Coach Fish (Does he stay or go)

Post by phantom » Wed Mar 13, 2019 10:10 am

I have no knowledge of the status of the contract. Personally, my thoughts are if Fish is let go, they’re doing him a favor. He has grown as a coach tremendously the last couple of years. The ability to completely change an offense in the middle of a season shows a coach that has formed his identity as a coach. Defensively, still a work in progress, but the team rebounded well much of the year. Player development picked up this year. In the five years, there was one year there wasn’t improvement and people wanted him fired. You can’t win long term in that environment. If they offer him a one year deal, I would hope he would walk away, go back to being an assistant at a Power 5 and greatly increase his salary.
Bozeman is a very nice community and they seem like good people, but it doesn’t seem to be a basketball community. With the new schedule, the team had to play extra buy games to make travel easier in conference. That isn’t the mark of a great job to have. It’s a new AD who people thought coming from South Dakota State meant he was a “basketball guy”. I haven’t seen any indications of that ... what resources have been added because he is the AD?
The idea that Montana is better because of the current coach makes me chuckle. It’s been one of the best two jobs in the conference for years along with Weber State. He got the keys to a Cadillac. While the budgets in terms of school dollars is probably the same, I’d be curious to know about booster financial support, which is the key.
Either way, I hope the Bobcats play well this week!



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Re: Coach Fish (Does he stay or go)

Post by ilovethecats » Wed Mar 13, 2019 1:11 pm

phantom wrote:
Wed Mar 13, 2019 10:10 am
I have no knowledge of the status of the contract. Personally, my thoughts are if Fish is let go, they’re doing him a favor. He has grown as a coach tremendously the last couple of years. The ability to completely change an offense in the middle of a season shows a coach that has formed his identity as a coach. Defensively, still a work in progress, but the team rebounded well much of the year. Player development picked up this year. In the five years, there was one year there wasn’t improvement and people wanted him fired. You can’t win long term in that environment. If they offer him a one year deal, I would hope he would walk away, go back to being an assistant at a Power 5 and greatly increase his salary.
Bozeman is a very nice community and they seem like good people, but it doesn’t seem to be a basketball community. With the new schedule, the team had to play extra buy games to make travel easier in conference. That isn’t the mark of a great job to have. It’s a new AD who people thought coming from South Dakota State meant he was a “basketball guy”. I haven’t seen any indications of that ... what resources have been added because he is the AD?
The idea that Montana is better because of the current coach makes me chuckle. It’s been one of the best two jobs in the conference for years along with Weber State. He got the keys to a Cadillac. While the budgets in terms of school dollars is probably the same, I’d be curious to know about booster financial support, which is the key.
Either way, I hope the Bobcats play well this week!
I agree with the majority of your post. But that said, you know as well as anyone that winning trumps every other thing in regards to sports. You win a bunch, and everything else takes care of itself. Money comes in, fans come in, facilities get upgraded, etc.

I agree that Bozeman doesn't seem like a basketball community. Why should it? We haven't been to the Big Dance in nearly a quarter of a century! Why on earth would fans flock to the arena? Why would boosters with deep pockets throw a bunch of money into the program? I'd be curious if you can think of another school in the country with a similar lack of success we've had that is still considered a basketball community with great support?

To make matters worse, the school down the road flat out has dominated in hoops. Dominated. Yes coach was handed the keys to a Cadillac because the coach before him dominated. And the coach before that. And the coach before that. You win games like they do, the money comes, the fans come, and all that other great stuff associated with successful teams!

I don't disagree with what you said about Fish. He might be better suited as an assistant and he'd certainly make more money. But I don't think a 1-year offer is some lowball disrespectful offer either. The success overall hasn't been there. And while I highly respect your hoops knowledge and concede your facts about what Fish has done well is likely true....in the big picture we're no more successful with Fish than we were with Huse. We don't win our conference regular season and we don't come close to winning our tourney. Ever. So if Fish can't get it done, I'd prefer we at least TRY to get someone in here who can get it done!

And the beauty is that if we start winning games, maybe win a regular season title here and there, and God almighty ever win the Big Sky crown....everything else takes care of itself. It snowballs. Fans come. Money comes. More wins come. And round and round we go. Success breeds success. It's not easy. Coaching is SO hard. It's cutthroat. But it can be done. Schools go from constant losers to constant winners all the time. I don't think it's too much to ask to maybe have someone in place to get us to the Dance more than once every 20 years or so....



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Re: Coach Fish (Does he stay or go)

Post by Grizaddict » Wed Mar 13, 2019 1:18 pm

I stick to my guns that TD is a huge and integral difference. The post above says “the overall quality and depth of the Griz is much better and that recruiting is more important than the coach”. Well who do you think is the main person repsonsible for that depth and overall talen and recruiting. It’s all TD and the staff that he manages. He has an ability to get California kids and Washington kids that others aren’t getting. You should see the class he has coming in next season.....eye popping.



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Re: Coach Fish (Does he stay or go)

Post by GoldstoneCat » Wed Mar 13, 2019 3:59 pm

Grizaddict wrote:
Wed Mar 13, 2019 1:18 pm
I stick to my guns that TD is a huge and integral difference. The post above says “the overall quality and depth of the Griz is much better and that recruiting is more important than the coach”. Well who do you think is the main person repsonsible for that depth and overall talen and recruiting. It’s all TD and the staff that he manages. He has an ability to get California kids and Washington kids that others aren’t getting. You should see the class he has coming in next season.....eye popping.
He very well may be the best of them, but I still think it's the best basketball job in the league. Krystowiak, tinkle, decuire have all had tremendous success there. Don't take me wrong, I'm not knocking decuire, quite the opposite, I think he's a great coach and I respect him greatly. But I don't think he'd be doing quite as well in Bozeman, or Greeley, or Flagstaff. That's all I'm driving at.



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Re: Coach Fish (Does he stay or go)

Post by phantom » Wed Mar 13, 2019 6:14 pm

ilovethecats wrote:
Wed Mar 13, 2019 1:11 pm

I agree with the majority of your post. But that said, you know as well as anyone that winning trumps every other thing in regards to sports. You win a bunch, and everything else takes care of itself. Money comes in, fans come in, facilities get upgraded, etc.

I agree that Bozeman doesn't seem like a basketball community. Why should it? We haven't been to the Big Dance in nearly a quarter of a century! Why on earth would fans flock to the arena? Why would boosters with deep pockets throw a bunch of money into the program? I'd be curious if you can think of another school in the country with a similar lack of success we've had that is still considered a basketball community with great support?

To make matters worse, the school down the road flat out has dominated in hoops. Dominated. Yes coach was handed the keys to a Cadillac because the coach before him dominated. And the coach before that. And the coach before that. You win games like they do, the money comes, the fans come, and all that other great stuff associated with successful teams!

I don't disagree with what you said about Fish. He might be better suited as an assistant and he'd certainly make more money. But I don't think a 1-year offer is some lowball disrespectful offer either. The success overall hasn't been there. And while I highly respect your hoops knowledge and concede your facts about what Fish has done well is likely true....in the big picture we're no more successful with Fish than we were with Huse. We don't win our conference regular season and we don't come close to winning our tourney. Ever. So if Fish can't get it done, I'd prefer we at least TRY to get someone in here who can get it done!

And the beauty is that if we start winning games, maybe win a regular season title here and there, and God almighty ever win the Big Sky crown....everything else takes care of itself. It snowballs. Fans come. Money comes. More wins come. And round and round we go. Success breeds success. It's not easy. Coaching is SO hard. It's cutthroat. But it can be done. Schools go from constant losers to constant winners all the time. I don't think it's too much to ask to maybe have someone in place to get us to the Dance more than once every 20 years or so....
I agree that if you win, more money will come in. But, the pump needs to get primed whether it’s Brian Fish, the next coach that comes in or the one 5 years after that if it takes getting to the top of the mountain in five years.
As I said, the track record for the last 5 years was the Bobcats got better in four of the five years.
As far as a 1-year deal, personally I don’t think it shows a commitment to him or any coach. If they don’t want to commit, aren’t sure they should commit, then I personally would rather see him go back to the Power 5 level and with head coaching experience, land a better job in a year or two. That’s just my personal opinion.



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Re: Coach Fish (Does he stay or go)

Post by ilovethecats » Wed Mar 13, 2019 11:41 pm

phantom wrote:
Wed Mar 13, 2019 6:14 pm


I agree that if you win, more money will come in. But, the pump needs to get primed whether it’s Brian Fish, the next coach that comes in or the one 5 years after that if it takes getting to the top of the mountain in five years.
As I said, the track record for the last 5 years was the Bobcats got better in four of the five years.
As far as a 1-year deal, personally I don’t think it shows a commitment to him or any coach. If they don’t want to commit, aren’t sure they should commit, then I personally would rather see him go back to the Power 5 level and with head coaching experience, land a better job in a year or two. That’s just my personal opinion.
Yes I agree. Unless we work a miracle these next two days I don’t see how MSU could commit long term to Fish. And I wouldn’t blame him either if he didn’t love a one year deal and chose to check his options.

As of my writing this we’re still alive. We won a first round big sky conference game for the first time in a decade. If this team wins tomorrow then who knows?! If we win tomorrow and the next day then all bets are definitely off. And for the record if we make a run here I’ll hop on the Fish train!

If we don’t make a run, and our season ends tomorrow in a similar fashion to the last 25 years....I think we need to make a change.

I fully expect Sprinkles name to come up early and often if the Cats lose tomorrow.



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Re: Coach Fish (Does he stay or go)

Post by GoldstoneCat » Thu Mar 14, 2019 12:42 am

ilovethecats wrote:
Wed Mar 13, 2019 11:41 pm
phantom wrote:
Wed Mar 13, 2019 6:14 pm


I agree that if you win, more money will come in. But, the pump needs to get primed whether it’s Brian Fish, the next coach that comes in or the one 5 years after that if it takes getting to the top of the mountain in five years.
As I said, the track record for the last 5 years was the Bobcats got better in four of the five years.
As far as a 1-year deal, personally I don’t think it shows a commitment to him or any coach. If they don’t want to commit, aren’t sure they should commit, then I personally would rather see him go back to the Power 5 level and with head coaching experience, land a better job in a year or two. That’s just my personal opinion.
Yes I agree. Unless we work a miracle these next two days I don’t see how MSU could commit long term to Fish. And I wouldn’t blame him either if he didn’t love a one year deal and chose to check his options.

As of my writing this we’re still alive. We won a first round big sky conference game for the first time in a decade. If this team wins tomorrow then who knows?! If we win tomorrow and the next day then all bets are definitely off. And for the record if we make a run here I’ll hop on the Fish train!

If we don’t make a run, and our season ends tomorrow in a similar fashion to the last 25 years....I think we need to make a change.

I fully expect Sprinkles name to come up early and often if the Cats lose tomorrow.
I like Fish, love sprinkle as well and would be happy if he was our coach. I don't think it's a bad idea to give fish one more contract, 3 years, and let him keep building, for 2 reasons. 1, he's improved our team and our talent level since he's been here. 2, I think in a place like MSU and the big sky conference, where progress and success is a grind-it-out endeavor much of the time, there's value in stability and allowing a guy to really root down and try and build a complete program. But, if you bring Danny sprinkle in, a guy who knows the landscape here, i don't think that's bad for the program either. There I am, taking both sides again. I guess i come down mildly pro-fish, I think he's done enough in a situation that required a total tear-down rebuild.



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Re: Coach Fish (Does he stay or go)

Post by WalkOn79 » Thu Mar 14, 2019 11:10 am

GoldstoneCat wrote:
Thu Mar 14, 2019 12:42 am
ilovethecats wrote:
Wed Mar 13, 2019 11:41 pm
phantom wrote:
Wed Mar 13, 2019 6:14 pm


I agree that if you win, more money will come in. But, the pump needs to get primed whether it’s Brian Fish, the next coach that comes in or the one 5 years after that if it takes getting to the top of the mountain in five years.
As I said, the track record for the last 5 years was the Bobcats got better in four of the five years.
As far as a 1-year deal, personally I don’t think it shows a commitment to him or any coach. If they don’t want to commit, aren’t sure they should commit, then I personally would rather see him go back to the Power 5 level and with head coaching experience, land a better job in a year or two. That’s just my personal opinion.
Yes I agree. Unless we work a miracle these next two days I don’t see how MSU could commit long term to Fish. And I wouldn’t blame him either if he didn’t love a one year deal and chose to check his options.

As of my writing this we’re still alive. We won a first round big sky conference game for the first time in a decade. If this team wins tomorrow then who knows?! If we win tomorrow and the next day then all bets are definitely off. And for the record if we make a run here I’ll hop on the Fish train!

If we don’t make a run, and our season ends tomorrow in a similar fashion to the last 25 years....I think we need to make a change.

I fully expect Sprinkles name to come up early and often if the Cats lose tomorrow.
I like Fish, love sprinkle as well and would be happy if he was our coach. I don't think it's a bad idea to give fish one more contract, 3 years, and let him keep building, for 2 reasons. 1, he's improved our team and our talent level since he's been here. 2, I think in a place like MSU and the big sky conference, where progress and success is a grind-it-out endeavor much of the time, there's value in stability and allowing a guy to really root down and try and build a complete program. But, if you bring Danny sprinkle in, a guy who knows the landscape here, i don't think that's bad for the program either. There I am, taking both sides again. I guess i come down mildly pro-fish, I think he's done enough in a situation that required a total tear-down rebuild.
That's where I'm at as well. I also think he's grown as a head coach and these kids seem to like playing for him. The effort has been very good this whole year.


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Re: Coach Fish (Does he stay or go)

Post by Bobcat4Ever » Thu Mar 14, 2019 12:22 pm

How strong is the program, behind what we see on the courts, minus the seniors? Redshirts? Freshman recruits? What will we see in the next one to two years? I do like that we have more four-year players being recruited into the program than before Coach Fish.



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Re: Coach Fish (Does he stay or go)

Post by Rich K » Thu Mar 14, 2019 1:30 pm

Has the Fish argument switched from "does he stay or does he go" to does MSU offer him a 1 year or a 3 year contract?


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Re: Coach Fish (Does he stay or go)

Post by phantom » Thu Mar 14, 2019 1:44 pm

Rich K wrote:
Thu Mar 14, 2019 1:30 pm
Has the Fish argument switched from "does he stay or does he go" to does MSU offer him a 1 year or a 3 year contract?
I’m not sure about that, and not sure it should at this point to be honest. My point is the decision should be made on where you think the program is and his progress as a coach. That being said, retaining or not retaining and how many years shouldn’t be dependent on the last weekend of the regular season and if you finish as the 3 seed as opposed to the sixth. You don’t bring a coach back or fire him based on an opening game of the Big Sky tournament. Bottom line is, if you think he’s going to give you stability and growth, you give him 2-3 years .. otherwise you move on. That’s me being as objective as possible.



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Re: Coach Fish (Does he stay or go)

Post by SACCAT » Thu Mar 14, 2019 3:08 pm

It sounds like there is only one thing for Fish to do...

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Re: Coach Fish (Does he stay or go)

Post by ilovethecats » Thu Mar 14, 2019 7:19 pm

phantom wrote:
Thu Mar 14, 2019 1:44 pm
Rich K wrote:
Thu Mar 14, 2019 1:30 pm
Has the Fish argument switched from "does he stay or does he go" to does MSU offer him a 1 year or a 3 year contract?
I’m not sure about that, and not sure it should at this point to be honest. My point is the decision should be made on where you think the program is and his progress as a coach. That being said, retaining or not retaining and how many years shouldn’t be dependent on the last weekend of the regular season and if you finish as the 3 seed as opposed to the sixth. You don’t bring a coach back or fire him based on an opening game of the Big Sky tournament. Bottom line is, if you think he’s going to give you stability and growth, you give him 2-3 years .. otherwise you move on. That’s me being as objective as possible.
I’m sure that those making these decisions and not ya dummies on message boards agree with you. Though I see it happen all the time. If last week they were pretty convinced they were going to move on and we blew a 15 point lead to lose to the worst team in the nation and extend our first round losing streak to 11.....I think he’d be gone.

If last week they were pretty convinced they were going to move on and we win the conference tourney I think they’d have a change of heart.

I don’t think the powers that be are caring their decisions solely on this weekend. But I bet they can be persuaded....



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Re: Coach Fish (Does he stay or go)

Post by phantom » Thu Mar 14, 2019 8:16 pm

I have little faith in administrations of any kind. That is no reflection of Montana State specifically



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Re: Coach Fish (Does he stay or go)

Post by StatedImprovement » Thu Mar 14, 2019 10:18 pm

Sign him to at least 3 more years....



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Re: Coach Fish (Does he stay or go)

Post by catsrback76 » Thu Mar 14, 2019 10:22 pm

StatedImprovement wrote:
Thu Mar 14, 2019 10:18 pm
Sign him to at least 3 more years....
Bye bobby lover!



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