Duru transfering

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Re: Duru transfering

Post by CARDIAC_CATS » Tue Feb 05, 2019 9:01 am

utucats wrote:
Tue Feb 05, 2019 7:22 am
One more thing....

Of Ash’s 70 career wins 37 of them occurred during the DM era :shock: With DM as starting QB we went an incredible 37-13 winning 74% of our games. Without DM Ash’s winning percentage was 57%.

Those 3 straight conference titles had one thing in common, they all happened in the DM era. Of the 6 playoff games that Ash coached here DM was the QB for 5 of them. Ash won 2 playoff games both with DM under center.

We all know that DM was a great QB but the amount of impact he had is easy to forget. Ash owes his success to DM as much as anybody because his numbers look average when you take the DM years out of the mix. Pretty much everything that any Ash supporter brags about happened when #9 was the starting QB.
Take Chris Murray and TA out of Choate's teams and see where the Cats would be record wise (2-3 wins if that each year?). Yes the QB is a big part of every college football team. DM was very good no doubt, but he would be the first to tell you that Coach Ash was a big part of it and surrounded him with good players and system. I like coach Choate, I agree with you QB is a big piece of building a team and success.



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Re: Duru transfering

Post by The Butcher » Tue Feb 05, 2019 9:12 am

thefrank1 wrote:
Mon Feb 04, 2019 12:46 pm
The team imploded because Ash became too aloof. He did not demand performance from Marshall and he lost control of the locker room. Success sometimes does go to one's head.
When I spoke with a MSU coach during Ash's time; their assessment is pretty much what you stated right there. Not a bad guy, just kind of lost a handle on the team.



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Re: Duru transfering

Post by iaafan » Tue Feb 05, 2019 9:17 am

CARDIAC_CATS wrote:
Tue Feb 05, 2019 9:01 am
utucats wrote:
Tue Feb 05, 2019 7:22 am
One more thing....

Of Ash’s 70 career wins 37 of them occurred during the DM era :shock: With DM as starting QB we went an incredible 37-13 winning 74% of our games. Without DM Ash’s winning percentage was 57%.

Those 3 straight conference titles had one thing in common, they all happened in the DM era. Of the 6 playoff games that Ash coached here DM was the QB for 5 of them. Ash won 2 playoff games both with DM under center.

We all know that DM was a great QB but the amount of impact he had is easy to forget. Ash owes his success to DM as much as anybody because his numbers look average when you take the DM years out of the mix. Pretty much everything that any Ash supporter brags about happened when #9 was the starting QB.
Take Chris Murray and TA out of Choate's teams and see where the Cats would be record wise (2-3 wins if that each year?). Yes the QB is a big part of every college football team. DM was very good no doubt, but he would be the first to tell you that Coach Ash was a big part of it and surrounded him with good players and system. I like coach Choate, I agree with you QB is a big piece of building a team and success.
Au contraire mon ami. Murray and Andersen were not first choices. Put them in for McGhee under Ash and MSU is not winning three straight titles. Put McGhee in for Murray and Andersen and MSU makes strong runs or wins the league. McGhee is vastly superior to either of them.



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Re: Duru transfering

Post by CelticCat » Tue Feb 05, 2019 10:55 am

If the playoff field is still 16, Ash would be 20-14 with no wins against the Griz, no wins or appearances in the playoffs, and no final season top 25 ranking (I can't find the final rankings for 2009, but we were I think 23rd before the 2009 Cat/Griz loss, so likely finished top 30). Choate would be 16-17 going 3-0 against the Griz, no wins or appearances in the playoffs, and a final season ranking in his 3rd year of #23.

Even in my hypothetical 16 team playoff field you'd probably have to give Choate the overall nod right now simply because of his Cat/Griz wins and the direction of the program. 2010 was obviously a stellar year for Ash and the start of a stretch where we'd go 30-8 overall and 21-3 in conference.

However I think the further you get away from something the more your perception changes of it. I think people forget how good those 2010, 2011, and 2012 teams actually were, and even the 2014 team that went 8-4 in the regular season with an FBS loss and hosted a playoff game against SDSU. That was the first year the defense really started to struggle and we just never recovered.

Overall Ash needed to go but to say he wasn't a good football coach or that his teams were never very good to me is just wrong. It's easy to look back at the bad losses, the record against the Griz, and see why Ash left a bad taste in many people's mouths but you'd be forgetting all of the good that came with it. Remember Ash only had one losing season.


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Re: Duru transfering

Post by CARDIAC_CATS » Tue Feb 05, 2019 11:05 am

CelticCat wrote:
Tue Feb 05, 2019 10:55 am
If the playoff field is still 16, Ash would be 20-14 with no wins against the Griz, no wins or appearances in the playoffs, and no final season top 25 ranking (I can't find the final rankings for 2009, but we were I think 23rd before the 2009 Cat/Griz loss, so likely finished top 30). Choate would be 16-17 going 3-0 against the Griz, no wins or appearances in the playoffs, and a final season ranking in his 3rd year of #23.

Even in my hypothetical 16 team playoff field you'd probably have to give Choate the overall nod right now simply because of his Cat/Griz wins and the direction of the program. 2010 was obviously a stellar year for Ash and the start of a stretch where we'd go 30-8 overall and 21-3 in conference.

However I think the further you get away from something the more your perception changes of it. I think people forget how good those 2010, 2011, and 2012 teams actually were, and even the 2014 team that went 8-4 in the regular season with an FBS loss and hosted a playoff game against SDSU. That was the first year the defense really started to struggle and we just never recovered.

Overall Ash needed to go but to say he wasn't a good football coach or that his teams were never very good to me is just wrong. It's easy to look back at the bad losses, the record against the Griz, and see why Ash left a bad taste in many people's mouths but you'd be forgetting all of the good that came with it. Remember Ash only had one losing season.
Agreed. Ash's also missed on 2 of his recruiting classes (especially on D) that kind of sunk the ship too. Kind of what is going on this year with our 2018 class (kind of has me worried). Hopefully we can use those extra scholarships and pick up some late stud recruits that didn't go FBS or transfers.



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Re: Duru transfering

Post by utucats » Tue Feb 05, 2019 2:38 pm

CelticCat wrote:
Tue Feb 05, 2019 10:55 am
If the playoff field is still 16, Ash would be 20-14 with no wins against the Griz, no wins or appearances in the playoffs, and no final season top 25 ranking (I can't find the final rankings for 2009, but we were I think 23rd before the 2009 Cat/Griz loss, so likely finished top 30). Choate would be 16-17 going 3-0 against the Griz, no wins or appearances in the playoffs, and a final season ranking in his 3rd year of #23.

Even in my hypothetical 16 team playoff field you'd probably have to give Choate the overall nod right now simply because of his Cat/Griz wins and the direction of the program. 2010 was obviously a stellar year for Ash and the start of a stretch where we'd go 30-8 overall and 21-3 in conference.

However I think the further you get away from something the more your perception changes of it. I think people forget how good those 2010, 2011, and 2012 teams actually were, and even the 2014 team that went 8-4 in the regular season with an FBS loss and hosted a playoff game against SDSU. That was the first year the defense really started to struggle and we just never recovered.

Overall Ash needed to go but to say he wasn't a good football coach or that his teams were never very good to me is just wrong. It's easy to look back at the bad losses, the record against the Griz, and see why Ash left a bad taste in many people's mouths but you'd be forgetting all of the good that came with it. Remember Ash only had one losing season.
I don’t think Ash was a good football coach. I think he was ok but I do agree that those teams were great. I think if you had Choate coaching those teams we might have made a serious run at a Natty but don’t take my word for it, someone go ask DM what he thinks.


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Re: Duru transfering

Post by utucats » Tue Feb 05, 2019 2:41 pm

iaafan wrote:
Tue Feb 05, 2019 9:17 am
CARDIAC_CATS wrote:
Tue Feb 05, 2019 9:01 am
utucats wrote:
Tue Feb 05, 2019 7:22 am
One more thing....

Of Ash’s 70 career wins 37 of them occurred during the DM era :shock: With DM as starting QB we went an incredible 37-13 winning 74% of our games. Without DM Ash’s winning percentage was 57%.

Those 3 straight conference titles had one thing in common, they all happened in the DM era. Of the 6 playoff games that Ash coached here DM was the QB for 5 of them. Ash won 2 playoff games both with DM under center.

We all know that DM was a great QB but the amount of impact he had is easy to forget. Ash owes his success to DM as much as anybody because his numbers look average when you take the DM years out of the mix. Pretty much everything that any Ash supporter brags about happened when #9 was the starting QB.
Take Chris Murray and TA out of Choate's teams and see where the Cats would be record wise (2-3 wins if that each year?). Yes the QB is a big part of every college football team. DM was very good no doubt, but he would be the first to tell you that Coach Ash was a big part of it and surrounded him with good players and system. I like coach Choate, I agree with you QB is a big piece of building a team and success.
Au contraire mon ami. Murray and Andersen were not first choices. Put them in for McGhee under Ash and MSU is not winning three straight titles. Put McGhee in for Murray and Andersen and MSU makes strong runs or wins the league. McGhee is vastly superior to either of them.
Exactly. At the QB position there is no comparing McGhee to Murray or TA. I think TA may be a better overall football player than Murray or DM but DM was vastly superior at the QB position.

I think DM does not get enough credit for Ash’s success. Without DM he was average at best.


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Re: Duru transfering

Post by CelticCat » Tue Feb 05, 2019 3:16 pm

utucats wrote:
Tue Feb 05, 2019 2:41 pm
iaafan wrote:
Tue Feb 05, 2019 9:17 am
CARDIAC_CATS wrote:
Tue Feb 05, 2019 9:01 am
utucats wrote:
Tue Feb 05, 2019 7:22 am
One more thing....

Of Ash’s 70 career wins 37 of them occurred during the DM era :shock: With DM as starting QB we went an incredible 37-13 winning 74% of our games. Without DM Ash’s winning percentage was 57%.

Those 3 straight conference titles had one thing in common, they all happened in the DM era. Of the 6 playoff games that Ash coached here DM was the QB for 5 of them. Ash won 2 playoff games both with DM under center.

We all know that DM was a great QB but the amount of impact he had is easy to forget. Ash owes his success to DM as much as anybody because his numbers look average when you take the DM years out of the mix. Pretty much everything that any Ash supporter brags about happened when #9 was the starting QB.
Take Chris Murray and TA out of Choate's teams and see where the Cats would be record wise (2-3 wins if that each year?). Yes the QB is a big part of every college football team. DM was very good no doubt, but he would be the first to tell you that Coach Ash was a big part of it and surrounded him with good players and system. I like coach Choate, I agree with you QB is a big piece of building a team and success.
Au contraire mon ami. Murray and Andersen were not first choices. Put them in for McGhee under Ash and MSU is not winning three straight titles. Put McGhee in for Murray and Andersen and MSU makes strong runs or wins the league. McGhee is vastly superior to either of them.
Exactly. At the QB position there is no comparing McGhee to Murray or TA. I think TA may be a better overall football player than Murray or DM but DM was vastly superior at the QB position.

I think DM does not get enough credit for Ash’s success. Without DM he was average at best.
Yea, guys like Cody Kirk, Orenzo Davis, Shawn Johnson, Tray Robinson, Tanner Bleskin, Elvis Akpla, Tiai Salonoa, Kyle Begger, Steven Foster, Mike Person, John Weidenaar, Conrad Burbank, Shawn Sampson, Quinn Catalano, JP Flynn, Joel Horn, Alex Terrien, Zach Minter, Jody Owens, Caleb Schreibeis, Alex Singleton, Cole Moore, Na'a Moeakiola, Clay Bignell, Rob Marshall, Brad Daly, Deonte Flowers, Darius Jones, Michael Rider, Jordan Craney, Joel Fuller, Jason Cunningham and Rory Perez didn't do anything to win 3 straight BSC titles.

I get your point, but those teams were well above average without McGhee, but next level with him.


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Re: Duru transfering

Post by catatac » Tue Feb 05, 2019 3:32 pm

utucats wrote:
Tue Feb 05, 2019 2:38 pm
CelticCat wrote:
Tue Feb 05, 2019 10:55 am
If the playoff field is still 16, Ash would be 20-14 with no wins against the Griz, no wins or appearances in the playoffs, and no final season top 25 ranking (I can't find the final rankings for 2009, but we were I think 23rd before the 2009 Cat/Griz loss, so likely finished top 30). Choate would be 16-17 going 3-0 against the Griz, no wins or appearances in the playoffs, and a final season ranking in his 3rd year of #23.

Even in my hypothetical 16 team playoff field you'd probably have to give Choate the overall nod right now simply because of his Cat/Griz wins and the direction of the program. 2010 was obviously a stellar year for Ash and the start of a stretch where we'd go 30-8 overall and 21-3 in conference.

However I think the further you get away from something the more your perception changes of it. I think people forget how good those 2010, 2011, and 2012 teams actually were, and even the 2014 team that went 8-4 in the regular season with an FBS loss and hosted a playoff game against SDSU. That was the first year the defense really started to struggle and we just never recovered.

Overall Ash needed to go but to say he wasn't a good football coach or that his teams were never very good to me is just wrong. It's easy to look back at the bad losses, the record against the Griz, and see why Ash left a bad taste in many people's mouths but you'd be forgetting all of the good that came with it. Remember Ash only had one losing season.
I don’t think Ash was a good football coach. I think he was ok but I do agree that those teams were great. I think if you had Choate coaching those teams we might have made a serious run at a Natty but don’t take my word for it, someone go ask DM what he thinks.
Everyone is welcome to their opinions but one more time, this I completely disagree with and I don't think it's fair to Rob Ash. Yes he lost the defense and eventually the team unity, but until then he did a damn good job leading Bobcat football. Three Big Sky titles in a row, playoff wins, number one ranked team in the country, back to back Buchanan awards winners. We can only hope Choate can match that success. Personally I don't think we'll win three Big Sky titles in a row under Choate but I do think we'll see at least one of his teams go deeper in the playoffs.


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Re: Duru transfering

Post by utucats » Tue Feb 05, 2019 7:45 pm

CelticCat wrote:
Tue Feb 05, 2019 3:16 pm
utucats wrote:
Tue Feb 05, 2019 2:41 pm
iaafan wrote:
Tue Feb 05, 2019 9:17 am
CARDIAC_CATS wrote:
Tue Feb 05, 2019 9:01 am
utucats wrote:
Tue Feb 05, 2019 7:22 am
One more thing....

Of Ash’s 70 career wins 37 of them occurred during the DM era :shock: With DM as starting QB we went an incredible 37-13 winning 74% of our games. Without DM Ash’s winning percentage was 57%.

Those 3 straight conference titles had one thing in common, they all happened in the DM era. Of the 6 playoff games that Ash coached here DM was the QB for 5 of them. Ash won 2 playoff games both with DM under center.

We all know that DM was a great QB but the amount of impact he had is easy to forget. Ash owes his success to DM as much as anybody because his numbers look average when you take the DM years out of the mix. Pretty much everything that any Ash supporter brags about happened when #9 was the starting QB.
Take Chris Murray and TA out of Choate's teams and see where the Cats would be record wise (2-3 wins if that each year?). Yes the QB is a big part of every college football team. DM was very good no doubt, but he would be the first to tell you that Coach Ash was a big part of it and surrounded him with good players and system. I like coach Choate, I agree with you QB is a big piece of building a team and success.
Au contraire mon ami. Murray and Andersen were not first choices. Put them in for McGhee under Ash and MSU is not winning three straight titles. Put McGhee in for Murray and Andersen and MSU makes strong runs or wins the league. McGhee is vastly superior to either of them.
Exactly. At the QB position there is no comparing McGhee to Murray or TA. I think TA may be a better overall football player than Murray or DM but DM was vastly superior at the QB position.

I think DM does not get enough credit for Ash’s success. Without DM he was average at best.
Yea, guys like Cody Kirk, Orenzo Davis, Shawn Johnson, Tray Robinson, Tanner Bleskin, Elvis Akpla, Tiai Salonoa, Kyle Begger, Steven Foster, Mike Person, John Weidenaar, Conrad Burbank, Shawn Sampson, Quinn Catalano, JP Flynn, Joel Horn, Alex Terrien, Zach Minter, Jody Owens, Caleb Schreibeis, Alex Singleton, Cole Moore, Na'a Moeakiola, Clay Bignell, Rob Marshall, Brad Daly, Deonte Flowers, Darius Jones, Michael Rider, Jordan Craney, Joel Fuller, Jason Cunningham and Rory Perez didn't do anything to win 3 straight BSC titles.

I get your point, but those teams were well above average without McGhee, but next level with him.
We had some great players for sure and I’m not saying anything disparaging about any of them. I think those players realized that they didn’t reach their potential with Ash at the helm and that is why we had players voicing concern with the staff after the season ended.

DM was really special though. You get a guy like that at the most important position, surrounded by great talent, and you get the result we enjoyed. My point is simply what did Ash do without that QB? Ash had one 8 win season without DM as QB. Choate already matched that.


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Re: Duru transfering

Post by 84CatGrad » Tue Feb 05, 2019 8:15 pm

I thought we were talking about Duru transfering.



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Re: Duru transfering

Post by PHAT CAT » Tue Feb 05, 2019 8:18 pm

84CatGrad wrote:
Tue Feb 05, 2019 8:15 pm
I thought we were talking about Duru transfering.

=D^ =D^ =D^ =D^



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Re: Duru transfering

Post by 083190 » Tue Feb 05, 2019 8:21 pm

Wait! What? Duru is transferring? Crap! But still, …….can Ash coach or not? ](*,)



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Re: Duru transfering

Post by utucats » Wed Feb 06, 2019 2:32 pm

Apologies for having a more interesting conversation than one players transfer.


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Re: Duru transfering

Post by GoldstoneCat » Wed Feb 06, 2019 4:41 pm

utucats wrote:
Tue Feb 05, 2019 6:21 am
GoldstoneCat wrote:
Mon Feb 04, 2019 4:42 pm
utucats wrote:
Mon Feb 04, 2019 3:59 pm
GoldstoneCat wrote:
Mon Feb 04, 2019 2:04 pm
luckyirishguy25 wrote:
Mon Feb 04, 2019 10:00 am
FTG_1984 wrote:
Mon Feb 04, 2019 7:57 am
gtapp wrote:
Sun Feb 03, 2019 6:27 pm
I was a huge Ash supporter and I was not happy he was let go. Fast forward 3 yers and I love that our coach is Choate. I think he is doing it the right way and I think this years team will be very good. It takes time to build a program the right way and you will have problems along the way. In this day and age players will always move on. I like our direction and I think he improved the coaching staff and the team this year. Every year should be better!
I couldn't disagree much more on Ash. Coach Ash was a poor head football coach in my opinion, despite his ability to run a clean program & his uncanny ability to amass wins in meaningless games early in the season.

Choate, on the other hand, is a very good head football coach & leader of young men. We are all blessed to have him at the helm. The biggest obstacle to Choate's program will be overcoming the loss of TG. I'm supporting him 100% on this, but overcoming this will be neither easy nor guaranteed.
Holy ****** you're a broken record... We get it, you like juggling Ty's balls....
Bahaha...touche. It's funny, nobody in this thread compared choate to ash, except to say (gtapp) that they were a fan of both coaches. That's kind of where i come down too, I like it when the bobcats win, so whomever can make that happen I like. Funny how FTG and a few others still feel the need to run coach ash into the ground, though. An argument that's been heard 1k times on this board, everybody knows their position, and everyone else's position, but they won't let it go. Like Rob beat up their dog, or something, which i'm sure he didn't because he's a good human being. Every coach has strengths, and all have flaws (except maybe Saban). Im excited about our current direction, and I appreciate the 70 wins ash had here.
I think a few Ash apologists are quick to point out any flaws the current staff may have because they are still sad about the departure of the choir boy. For this reason, it becomes important to remind them where we were headed.

Ash was an ok coach at best. If Choate had McGhee, Akpla, Belskin, Minter, Owens, Schreibis, Daly, Kirk, Prukop, Shawn Johnson etc we’d have done something really special.

Ash was a good guy but being nice doesn’t guarantee you a job in a performance based position. I think he was given more than enough time to prove himself and he proved that his ceiling was beating cupcakes and getting beaten like a cupcake when facing real talent.

Here’s hoping Choate’s ceiling is much higher.
And did all that talent just conjure itself from thin air? Nobody is arguing the change shouldn't have been made, there's a couple of you that need to remind us that you really hated that damn Ash, any chance you get. And remember, I was defending choate in this thread about 2 of his prized wr recruits leaving 1 year in. Remember how much you guys would bitch about "retention" when a kid would leave before? Your lack of self-awareness is practically breathtaking. Whenever someone dares criticize anything this coach does, you insist on comparing him to the last one, yet none of the "ash apologists," as you call them, do the same. And the "beating up on cupcakes" thing is nonsense. Since we're doing this, again, because god only knows why, how many wins over playoff teams has choate had so far? 1? Incarnate word this year, right, a 6-win qualifier IIRC. His teams have played well in cat griz, no doubt about it, but those have also been mediocre griz teams. I'm not saying any of this to discount or discredit choate's talent, I'm a believer after that late season run, but merely to point out the stunning hypocrisy in your argument.
I’ll give Ash credit for recruiting talent but he started off with a winner.

Kramer’s last season was an 8-5 finish. When you realize what Ash walked into I’m not sure it’s impressive that it took 4 seasons to turn 8 wins into the playoffs. Kramer had us gaining ground and we were trending up when he got the boot. Compare that to what Ash left Choate.

I also don’t recall anyone, especially myself, stating that we hated Ash. Ash was an incredibly nice man but this isn’t an exercise in likability. Players who knew that their potential was much higher than what they achieved would come forward just to be shouted down by the Ash crowd. How about DM? Does anyone remember how that ended? One of the greatest QBs in the history of MSU ended his career at odds with Ash. Even the players that are leaving early now have better things to say about Choate then many players who graduated under Ash.

Players want to win and they know the program better than anyone on here ever could. If you want to know the state of our program talk to the players. When guys like JP and Newell graduated they expressed regret that they couldn’t play another season or two to be part of what they knew Choate was building. That’s all I need to know. Those boys played for both coaches. You don’t have to be that great at reading the tea leaves to pickup on whether they think the coaching change was the right move.

One player leaving doesn’t amount to a thing. All programs experience some turnover and we’ve been dealt a bum hand when it comes to the QB position and yet look at what we’ve still accomplished. When Choate finds himself a QB whose even half of what McGhee or Lulay was we are going to be one hell of a football team.

You guys act like you are doing Choate a favor by acknowledging what is right in front of your face. We are improving at a steady pace and although Choate isn’t beating the powerhouse teams yet I can point to instances where we atleast competed which is something the last staff rarely did.

Last thing, this is a fan site. Comparing our current staff with the last one is about the most natural damn thing a group of fans could do and yet the mere mention of Ash enrages many of you. Why? For someone that is so “self aware” why is it that the mention of Ash sends you into such a free fall. If the comparison wasn’t so obviously pro Choate maybe you could deal with examining the details. You get defensive because you were wrong and instead of just admitting it and jumping on board you have to get pissy when someone points out the obvious. In all fairness to you Goldstone, you are one of the better Ash men :D but some on here look for every reason to criticize Choate because they can’t deal with the fact that the choir boy’s exit was good for the program.
Again, I'm in favor of the bobcats winning. Whomever can accomplish that, I like. I have been critical of Choate in the past, which had nothing at all to do with the fact that I liked Ash and respected the job he did here. I felt, and still do to a degree, that it's hard to win when playing a style of football contrary to the rest of your league, and most of the rest of the country. But, and you've heard me do it publicly too, I have great respect for the way Choate's teams play hard, play together, and quite often win through sheer physicality and tough-mindedness. The run at the end of this season built great momentum, and I am excited to see our program continue to grow. I think we're going to need more on offense to take the next steps you speak of, and I haven't seen enough from this staff to know with certainty we'll get it. Ash did not win enough big games, or beat Montana enough, no argument on those points. But he averaged 8 wins per season, and recruited 2 elite qbs here. He had 2 Buchanan winners. So my point in all this has not ever been to compare the 2 coaches, as I think yours and others has been. I've always, consistently, said that I can be excited or upset or fired up or disgusted about the current coach without denigrating the prior, and that's consistently the point I've raised. You feel we're better off, and we may be, and I guess we'll agree to disagree on the rest.



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Re: Duru transfering

Post by utucats » Thu Feb 07, 2019 2:32 am

GoldstoneCat wrote:
Wed Feb 06, 2019 4:41 pm
utucats wrote:
Tue Feb 05, 2019 6:21 am
GoldstoneCat wrote:
Mon Feb 04, 2019 4:42 pm
utucats wrote:
Mon Feb 04, 2019 3:59 pm
GoldstoneCat wrote:
Mon Feb 04, 2019 2:04 pm
luckyirishguy25 wrote:
Mon Feb 04, 2019 10:00 am
FTG_1984 wrote:
Mon Feb 04, 2019 7:57 am
gtapp wrote:
Sun Feb 03, 2019 6:27 pm
I was a huge Ash supporter and I was not happy he was let go. Fast forward 3 yers and I love that our coach is Choate. I think he is doing it the right way and I think this years team will be very good. It takes time to build a program the right way and you will have problems along the way. In this day and age players will always move on. I like our direction and I think he improved the coaching staff and the team this year. Every year should be better!
I couldn't disagree much more on Ash. Coach Ash was a poor head football coach in my opinion, despite his ability to run a clean program & his uncanny ability to amass wins in meaningless games early in the season.

Choate, on the other hand, is a very good head football coach & leader of young men. We are all blessed to have him at the helm. The biggest obstacle to Choate's program will be overcoming the loss of TG. I'm supporting him 100% on this, but overcoming this will be neither easy nor guaranteed.
Holy ****** you're a broken record... We get it, you like juggling Ty's balls....
Bahaha...touche. It's funny, nobody in this thread compared choate to ash, except to say (gtapp) that they were a fan of both coaches. That's kind of where i come down too, I like it when the bobcats win, so whomever can make that happen I like. Funny how FTG and a few others still feel the need to run coach ash into the ground, though. An argument that's been heard 1k times on this board, everybody knows their position, and everyone else's position, but they won't let it go. Like Rob beat up their dog, or something, which i'm sure he didn't because he's a good human being. Every coach has strengths, and all have flaws (except maybe Saban). Im excited about our current direction, and I appreciate the 70 wins ash had here.
I think a few Ash apologists are quick to point out any flaws the current staff may have because they are still sad about the departure of the choir boy. For this reason, it becomes important to remind them where we were headed.

Ash was an ok coach at best. If Choate had McGhee, Akpla, Belskin, Minter, Owens, Schreibis, Daly, Kirk, Prukop, Shawn Johnson etc we’d have done something really special.

Ash was a good guy but being nice doesn’t guarantee you a job in a performance based position. I think he was given more than enough time to prove himself and he proved that his ceiling was beating cupcakes and getting beaten like a cupcake when facing real talent.

Here’s hoping Choate’s ceiling is much higher.
And did all that talent just conjure itself from thin air? Nobody is arguing the change shouldn't have been made, there's a couple of you that need to remind us that you really hated that damn Ash, any chance you get. And remember, I was defending choate in this thread about 2 of his prized wr recruits leaving 1 year in. Remember how much you guys would bitch about "retention" when a kid would leave before? Your lack of self-awareness is practically breathtaking. Whenever someone dares criticize anything this coach does, you insist on comparing him to the last one, yet none of the "ash apologists," as you call them, do the same. And the "beating up on cupcakes" thing is nonsense. Since we're doing this, again, because god only knows why, how many wins over playoff teams has choate had so far? 1? Incarnate word this year, right, a 6-win qualifier IIRC. His teams have played well in cat griz, no doubt about it, but those have also been mediocre griz teams. I'm not saying any of this to discount or discredit choate's talent, I'm a believer after that late season run, but merely to point out the stunning hypocrisy in your argument.
I’ll give Ash credit for recruiting talent but he started off with a winner.

Kramer’s last season was an 8-5 finish. When you realize what Ash walked into I’m not sure it’s impressive that it took 4 seasons to turn 8 wins into the playoffs. Kramer had us gaining ground and we were trending up when he got the boot. Compare that to what Ash left Choate.

I also don’t recall anyone, especially myself, stating that we hated Ash. Ash was an incredibly nice man but this isn’t an exercise in likability. Players who knew that their potential was much higher than what they achieved would come forward just to be shouted down by the Ash crowd. How about DM? Does anyone remember how that ended? One of the greatest QBs in the history of MSU ended his career at odds with Ash. Even the players that are leaving early now have better things to say about Choate then many players who graduated under Ash.

Players want to win and they know the program better than anyone on here ever could. If you want to know the state of our program talk to the players. When guys like JP and Newell graduated they expressed regret that they couldn’t play another season or two to be part of what they knew Choate was building. That’s all I need to know. Those boys played for both coaches. You don’t have to be that great at reading the tea leaves to pickup on whether they think the coaching change was the right move.

One player leaving doesn’t amount to a thing. All programs experience some turnover and we’ve been dealt a bum hand when it comes to the QB position and yet look at what we’ve still accomplished. When Choate finds himself a QB whose even half of what McGhee or Lulay was we are going to be one hell of a football team.

You guys act like you are doing Choate a favor by acknowledging what is right in front of your face. We are improving at a steady pace and although Choate isn’t beating the powerhouse teams yet I can point to instances where we atleast competed which is something the last staff rarely did.

Last thing, this is a fan site. Comparing our current staff with the last one is about the most natural damn thing a group of fans could do and yet the mere mention of Ash enrages many of you. Why? For someone that is so “self aware” why is it that the mention of Ash sends you into such a free fall. If the comparison wasn’t so obviously pro Choate maybe you could deal with examining the details. You get defensive because you were wrong and instead of just admitting it and jumping on board you have to get pissy when someone points out the obvious. In all fairness to you Goldstone, you are one of the better Ash men :D but some on here look for every reason to criticize Choate because they can’t deal with the fact that the choir boy’s exit was good for the program.
Again, I'm in favor of the bobcats winning. Whomever can accomplish that, I like. I have been critical of Choate in the past, which had nothing at all to do with the fact that I liked Ash and respected the job he did here. I felt, and still do to a degree, that it's hard to win when playing a style of football contrary to the rest of your league, and most of the rest of the country. But, and you've heard me do it publicly too, I have great respect for the way Choate's teams play hard, play together, and quite often win through sheer physicality and tough-mindedness. The run at the end of this season built great momentum, and I am excited to see our program continue to grow. I think we're going to need more on offense to take the next steps you speak of, and I haven't seen enough from this staff to know with certainty we'll get it. Ash did not win enough big games, or beat Montana enough, no argument on those points. But he averaged 8 wins per season, and recruited 2 elite qbs here. He had 2 Buchanan winners. So my point in all this has not ever been to compare the 2 coaches, as I think yours and others has been. I've always, consistently, said that I can be excited or upset or fired up or disgusted about the current coach without denigrating the prior, and that's consistently the point I've raised. You feel we're better off, and we may be, and I guess we'll agree to disagree on the rest.
Fair enough. Good post.


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