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MSU/UM Enrollment

Posted: Thu Sep 05, 2019 8:36 am
by wbtfg
I know there's multiple threads on this, but didn't feel like digging. Anyway, here's a quote from a story in today's Missoulian.

According to the posted budget documents, UM's total budget will be down from $146.2 million in 2019 to $144.3 million in the 2020 Fiscal Year. By comparison, Montana State University-Bozeman's budget is set to grow from $240.4 million to $254.5 million.

https://missoulian.com/news/local/um-fo ... op-story-1

Re: MSU/UM Enrollment

Posted: Thu Sep 05, 2019 8:53 am
by iaafan
Seems right in line with the ratio of students. I’m not sure how to quantify it. How long can this go on before UM has to start making drastic changes or before the state of Montana begins pulling the plugs on parts of UM? Can you pay staff and operate the machinery in half empty classrooms? When will it hit a critical mass?

Re: MSU/UM Enrollment

Posted: Thu Sep 05, 2019 10:58 am
by RickRund
And their president touts headway...

Yes, the airline captain said we will crash but at 500 mph and not 600 mph...

Re: MSU/UM Enrollment

Posted: Thu Sep 05, 2019 1:01 pm
by HelenaCat
I wonder what the ratios are for Athletics Budget/Total Budget at each school?? That would be interesting to see the difference there......

Re: MSU/UM Enrollment

Posted: Thu Sep 05, 2019 4:53 pm
by RickRund
HelenaCat wrote:
Thu Sep 05, 2019 1:01 pm
I wonder what the ratios are for Athletics Budget/Total Budget at each school?? That would be interesting to see the difference there......
That would be very interesting.

Re: MSU/UM Enrollment

Posted: Sat Sep 07, 2019 10:54 pm
by MSU Toddler
MSU will soon be 'penalized' by the BOR and redistribute the wealth to other failing Montana University Systems - including UM - because they are all state run organizations.

Re: MSU/UM Enrollment

Posted: Sun Sep 08, 2019 11:58 am
by wbtfg
MSU Toddler wrote:
Sat Sep 07, 2019 10:54 pm
MSU will soon be 'penalized' by the BOR and redistribute the wealth to other failing Montana University Systems - including UM - because they are all state run organizations.
They already have been. I think 14 mil was redistributed from MSU to UM last year.

Re: MSU/UM Enrollment

Posted: Sun Sep 08, 2019 1:10 pm
by HelenaCat
wbtfg wrote:
Sun Sep 08, 2019 11:58 am
MSU Toddler wrote:
Sat Sep 07, 2019 10:54 pm
MSU will soon be 'penalized' by the BOR and redistribute the wealth to other failing Montana University Systems - including UM - because they are all state run organizations.
They already have been. I think 14 mil was redistributed from MSU to UM last year.
Yes, this has been happening since MSU passed um in enrollment.

Re: MSU/UM Enrollment

Posted: Mon Sep 09, 2019 8:35 am
by RickRund
HelenaCat wrote:
Sun Sep 08, 2019 1:10 pm
wbtfg wrote:
Sun Sep 08, 2019 11:58 am
MSU Toddler wrote:
Sat Sep 07, 2019 10:54 pm
MSU will soon be 'penalized' by the BOR and redistribute the wealth to other failing Montana University Systems - including UM - because they are all state run organizations.
They already have been. I think 14 mil was redistributed from MSU to UM last year.
Yes, this has been happening since MSU passed um in enrollment.
I guess that is the new "american dream". You are failing on everyone front and the successful entity will be robbed to give you a big boost... And I guess this is for real then.

Re: MSU/UM Enrollment

Posted: Mon Sep 09, 2019 10:14 am
by allcat
RickRund wrote:
Mon Sep 09, 2019 8:35 am
HelenaCat wrote:
Sun Sep 08, 2019 1:10 pm
wbtfg wrote:
Sun Sep 08, 2019 11:58 am
MSU Toddler wrote:
Sat Sep 07, 2019 10:54 pm
MSU will soon be 'penalized' by the BOR and redistribute the wealth to other failing Montana University Systems - including UM - because they are all state run organizations.
They already have been. I think 14 mil was redistributed from MSU to UM last year.
Yes, this has been happening since MSU passed um in enrollment.
I guess that is the new "american dream". You are failing on everyone front and the successful entity will be robbed to give you a big boost... And I guess this is for real then.
I think the regents have to help the schools that need it, for a while. All of the fixed costs are going to continue with less students to split up the costs, just the nature of fixed costs. They should tell them that either the enrollment starts to pick up or they will need to find a way to reduce fixed costs.

Re: MSU/UM Enrollment

Posted: Mon Sep 09, 2019 10:37 am
by RickRund
allcat wrote:
Mon Sep 09, 2019 10:14 am
RickRund wrote:
Mon Sep 09, 2019 8:35 am
HelenaCat wrote:
Sun Sep 08, 2019 1:10 pm
wbtfg wrote:
Sun Sep 08, 2019 11:58 am
MSU Toddler wrote:
Sat Sep 07, 2019 10:54 pm
MSU will soon be 'penalized' by the BOR and redistribute the wealth to other failing Montana University Systems - including UM - because they are all state run organizations.
They already have been. I think 14 mil was redistributed from MSU to UM last year.
Yes, this has been happening since MSU passed um in enrollment.
I guess that is the new "american dream". You are failing on everyone front and the successful entity will be robbed to give you a big boost... And I guess this is for real then.
I think the regents have to help the schools that need it, for a while. All of the fixed costs are going to continue with less students to split up the costs, just the nature of fixed costs. They should tell them that either the enrollment starts to pick up or they will need to find a way to reduce fixed costs.
I am not there so my knowledge means zip but it seems their wounds are all self imposed. Pretty soon they should begin to start repairing the damage. Which they probably have since new management has been brought..... Put them on a short leash.

Re: MSU/UM Enrollment

Posted: Mon Sep 09, 2019 10:45 am
by allcat
RickRund wrote:
Mon Sep 09, 2019 10:37 am
allcat wrote:
Mon Sep 09, 2019 10:14 am
RickRund wrote:
Mon Sep 09, 2019 8:35 am
HelenaCat wrote:
Sun Sep 08, 2019 1:10 pm
wbtfg wrote:
Sun Sep 08, 2019 11:58 am
MSU Toddler wrote:
Sat Sep 07, 2019 10:54 pm
MSU will soon be 'penalized' by the BOR and redistribute the wealth to other failing Montana University Systems - including UM - because they are all state run organizations.
They already have been. I think 14 mil was redistributed from MSU to UM last year.
Yes, this has been happening since MSU passed um in enrollment.
I guess that is the new "american dream". You are failing on everyone front and the successful entity will be robbed to give you a big boost... And I guess this is for real then.
I think the regents have to help the schools that need it, for a while. All of the fixed costs are going to continue with less students to split up the costs, just the nature of fixed costs. They should tell them that either the enrollment starts to pick up or they will need to find a way to reduce fixed costs.
I am not there so my knowledge means zip but it seems their wounds are all self imposed. Pretty soon they should begin to start repairing the damage. Which they probably have since new management has been brought..... Put them on a short leash.
I'm not sure about all self imposed. Virtually all Liberal arts schools have seen enrollment drops. I read an article where they said 25% of colleges could go bankrupt within 10 years.

Re: MSU/UM Enrollment

Posted: Mon Sep 09, 2019 10:56 am
by RickRund
allcat wrote:
Mon Sep 09, 2019 10:45 am
RickRund wrote:
Mon Sep 09, 2019 10:37 am
allcat wrote:
Mon Sep 09, 2019 10:14 am
RickRund wrote:
Mon Sep 09, 2019 8:35 am
HelenaCat wrote:
Sun Sep 08, 2019 1:10 pm
wbtfg wrote:
Sun Sep 08, 2019 11:58 am
MSU Toddler wrote:
Sat Sep 07, 2019 10:54 pm
MSU will soon be 'penalized' by the BOR and redistribute the wealth to other failing Montana University Systems - including UM - because they are all state run organizations.
They already have been. I think 14 mil was redistributed from MSU to UM last year.
Yes, this has been happening since MSU passed um in enrollment.
I guess that is the new "american dream". You are failing on everyone front and the successful entity will be robbed to give you a big boost... And I guess this is for real then.
I think the regents have to help the schools that need it, for a while. All of the fixed costs are going to continue with less students to split up the costs, just the nature of fixed costs. They should tell them that either the enrollment starts to pick up or they will need to find a way to reduce fixed costs.
I am not there so my knowledge means zip but it seems their wounds are all self imposed. Pretty soon they should begin to start repairing the damage. Which they probably have since new management has been brought..... Put them on a short leash.
I'm not sure about all self imposed. Virtually all Liberal arts schools have seen enrollment drops. I read an article where they said 25% of colleges could go bankrupt within 10 years.
Here is where my knowledge means zip. Was not aware of that stat. Interesting and in a way sad. But if you don't teach "useable knowledge" then it looks like you go the way of the dinosaurs.

Re: MSU/UM Enrollment

Posted: Mon Sep 09, 2019 2:24 pm
by BozoneCat
wbtfg wrote:
Sun Sep 08, 2019 11:58 am
MSU Toddler wrote:
Sat Sep 07, 2019 10:54 pm
MSU will soon be 'penalized' by the BOR and redistribute the wealth to other failing Montana University Systems - including UM - because they are all state run organizations.
They already have been. I think 14 mil was redistributed from MSU to UM last year.
Might as well teach them about how the welfare system works, since most of their graduates will likely end up utilizing it at some point once they find out a degree from UMCC is worthless.

Re: MSU/UM Enrollment

Posted: Wed Sep 11, 2019 7:10 am
by KittieKop
allcat wrote:
Mon Sep 09, 2019 10:14 am
RickRund wrote:
Mon Sep 09, 2019 8:35 am
HelenaCat wrote:
Sun Sep 08, 2019 1:10 pm
wbtfg wrote:
Sun Sep 08, 2019 11:58 am
MSU Toddler wrote:
Sat Sep 07, 2019 10:54 pm
MSU will soon be 'penalized' by the BOR and redistribute the wealth to other failing Montana University Systems - including UM - because they are all state run organizations.
They already have been. I think 14 mil was redistributed from MSU to UM last year.
Yes, this has been happening since MSU passed um in enrollment.
I guess that is the new "american dream". You are failing on everyone front and the successful entity will be robbed to give you a big boost... And I guess this is for real then.
I think the regents have to help the schools that need it, for a while. All of the fixed costs are going to continue with less students to split up the costs, just the nature of fixed costs. They should tell them that either the enrollment starts to pick up or they will need to find a way to reduce fixed costs.
They have been. They've been slashing staff and faculty positions for three years. The state "stole" millions of dollars of otherwise appropriated money in 2017 to pay faculty chashouts at UM. We've already seen the empty residence hall rooms story, so it makes one wonder at what point do they consolidate dorms and classroom buildings and shutter some of them to have heating/maintenance costs?

Re: MSU/UM Enrollment

Posted: Wed Sep 11, 2019 7:46 am
by allcat
KittieKop wrote:
Wed Sep 11, 2019 7:10 am
allcat wrote:
Mon Sep 09, 2019 10:14 am
RickRund wrote:
Mon Sep 09, 2019 8:35 am
HelenaCat wrote:
Sun Sep 08, 2019 1:10 pm
wbtfg wrote:
Sun Sep 08, 2019 11:58 am
MSU Toddler wrote:
Sat Sep 07, 2019 10:54 pm
MSU will soon be 'penalized' by the BOR and redistribute the wealth to other failing Montana University Systems - including UM - because they are all state run organizations.
They already have been. I think 14 mil was redistributed from MSU to UM last year.
Yes, this has been happening since MSU passed um in enrollment.
I guess that is the new "american dream". You are failing on everyone front and the successful entity will be robbed to give you a big boost... And I guess this is for real then.
I think the regents have to help the schools that need it, for a while. All of the fixed costs are going to continue with less students to split up the costs, just the nature of fixed costs. They should tell them that either the enrollment starts to pick up or they will need to find a way to reduce fixed costs.
They have been. They've been slashing staff and faculty positions for three years. The state "stole" millions of dollars of otherwise appropriated money in 2017 to pay faculty chashouts at UM. We've already seen the empty residence hall rooms story, so it makes one wonder at what point do they consolidate dorms and classroom buildings and shutter some of them to have heating/maintenance costs?
I think most of the cuts were not fixed. They got rid of professors and other. Your right, if they shutter buildings that would be fixed costs. It's actually prospects I would not want to see, but maybe necessary.

Re: MSU/UM Enrollment

Posted: Wed Sep 11, 2019 7:50 am
by allcat
In Choate's interview with Brian McLaughlin he said the enrollment was approaching 18000. Contrast that with Um.

Re: MSU/UM Enrollment

Posted: Wed Sep 11, 2019 8:13 am
by coachouert
allcat wrote:
Wed Sep 11, 2019 7:50 am
In Choate's interview with Brian McLaughlin he said the enrollment was approaching 18000. Contrast that with Um.
That number is slightly off as the number is approaching 17,000. UM will land somewhere between 9,000-9,500 if I were to guess.

Re: MSU/UM Enrollment

Posted: Wed Sep 11, 2019 9:32 pm
by TomCat88
There's a story coming out on Friday, or this weekend, I believe that talks about how the regents are increasing MSU's budget and decreasing UM's. UM's enrollment is expected to drop by over 5%, MSU's dropped also. Budget increase at MSU of about $10-15 million.

When looking at enrollment it's worth noting that both schools are counting the Vo-tech students in their towns. When you dig into the BOR website you can break them out.

Re: MSU/UM Enrollment

Posted: Wed Sep 11, 2019 10:10 pm
by Pecos24