20,000 enrollment by 2021?

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TomCat88
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20,000 enrollment by 2021?

Post by TomCat88 » Tue Feb 13, 2018 8:46 pm

I can’t reveal my source, but I was just told that MSU is anticipating 20,000 students in three years. Anyone else heard that?


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Darth Yoda
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Re: 20,000 enrollment by 2021?

Post by Darth Yoda » Tue Feb 13, 2018 11:23 pm

Not surprised at all. I was visiting with another Cat fan today and we were really trying to figure out how we get the #3 class in FCS, and among many many other amazing signees, get a kid who was offered a full ride to Arizona State. This unreal class was signed after the Cats came off of back to back losing seasons. The only possible answer is that the overall 'Montana State package' pitch is really freakin' good, and Choate (and team) can pitch the vision really well. This pitch would obviously include the growth trajectory of the University as a whole. Athletes and their parents want to be associated with a University that is clearly on the rise. I love hearing about this stuff.



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Re: 20,000 enrollment by 2021?

Post by Rich K » Wed Feb 14, 2018 9:21 am

Here's a story from the Flathead Beacon that's sort of related.
http://flatheadbeacon.com/2018/02/14/re ... y-montana/

A quote from Grady Bennett from the story :
A tougher-to-quantify reflection of UM’s brand deterioration is something Grady Bennett, the former UM quarterback who teaches and coaches football at Glacier High School, has literally seen with his own eyes and discussed with recently fired UM football coach Bob Stitt when Stitt’s tenure began, in 2015.

“There was a stretch, most of my (teaching) career, where I could not catch a kid wearing a (MSU) Bobcats sweatshirt,” Bennett said. “And now, it’s the opposite. There’s Bobcats stuff everywhere. And if I see a kid wearing a Griz sweatshirt I’m like, ‘Whoa.’ So I told (Stitt), ‘We’ve got to do something.’”
I think of Bennett as the bell ringer for the deterioration of UM's relationship with high schools all across Montana. Hadn't he complained of that years ago? I seem to recall it was during Hauck's first tenure that the deterioration began. Coaches were bemoaning that they were having no communications with U. of M.

Most around here have given Ash much credit for mending and enriching direct relationships between MSU and Montana high school through athletics. But it wasn't just Ash (who might be described as a spearhead) it was the whole University leadership. While UM's relationships were crumbling, MSU was healing, rebuilding, and creating relationships that have spurred the current growth.

20,000 by 2021? Maybe, but would it be good for the University to grow that quickly? Would the product suffer and can the infrastructure really handle that rapid of growth?


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Re: 20,000 enrollment by 2021?

Post by RickRund » Wed Feb 14, 2018 11:07 am

Sorry if I have missed a estimate but are there any numbers from western granola state???



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Re: 20,000 enrollment by 2021?

Post by wbtfg » Wed Feb 14, 2018 2:38 pm

RickRund wrote:Sorry if I have missed a estimate but are there any numbers from western granola state???
I think they are trending toward 5k by 2021


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Re: 20,000 enrollment by 2021?

Post by allcat » Wed Feb 14, 2018 3:29 pm

RickRund wrote:Sorry if I have missed a estimate but are there any numbers from western granola state???
They are not good enough to carry a "state" moniker.


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Re: 20,000 enrollment by 2021?

Post by 77matcat » Wed Feb 14, 2018 10:23 pm

“State of confusion”


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Re: 20,000 enrollment by 2021?

Post by Rich K » Thu Feb 15, 2018 6:36 am

77matcat wrote:“State of confusion”
I'm sure you meant that as a slight jab, but I suggest it's 100% accurate.
Check out this story from the Kaimin:
http://www.montanakaimin.com/news/why-m ... c82e0.html

This little quote in particularly:
Elaine Chandler is a senior at Bozeman High School who always thought she would choose UM if she stayed in state for college. But when the time came for her to apply to schools, she applied to MSU as well.

Within a week, Chandler received MSU’s acceptance letter, course curriculum packet and financial aid information. Chandler didn’t receive UM’s email response until much later, even though she applied there first.

“MSU was really together and had a nice packet, and I haven’t really heard anything from UM, so that makes MSU seem more with it I guess,” Chandler said.

Tom Crady, UM’s new vice president for enrollment and student affairs, said this is a common problem driving students away. During the summer, transfer student applications were backed up two months because of UM’s outdated application processing system.

“If it takes two months to process an application, people leave,” Crady said.
The article goes on to suggest that fixes to the problem are taking place.
I call ****** on Crady's response. While he may have been referring to the transfer student application process, Chandler is prospective new student about ready to graduate from a Montana high school. It doesn't take space age technology to have a packet in the mail the very same day she applied. This sort of incompetence reinforces the idea that it's a s--- show over there.


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Re: 20,000 enrollment by 2021?

Post by 77matcat » Thu Feb 15, 2018 8:51 am

The opportunities to expand on that topic are too numerous to spend time on them.

But as long as we’re talking my personal favorite is the pass rate um law students have with the bar.

[emoji1][emoji1]


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Re: 20,000 enrollment by 2021?

Post by RickRund » Thu Feb 15, 2018 10:29 am

77matcat wrote:The opportunities to expand on that topic are too numerous to spend time on them.

But as long as we’re talking my personal favorite is the pass rate um law students have with the bar.

[emoji1][emoji1]


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So I guess you are saying they are not on the same level as Georgetown, Harvard or McGeorge law? I use those only as examples as they are the ones I can think of at the moment.



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Re: 20,000 enrollment by 2021?

Post by Rich K » Thu Feb 15, 2018 12:17 pm

RickRund wrote:
77matcat wrote:The opportunities to expand on that topic are too numerous to spend time on them.

But as long as we’re talking my personal favorite is the pass rate um law students have with the bar.

[emoji1][emoji1]


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So I guess you are saying they are not on the same level as Georgetown, Harvard or McGeorge law? I use those only as examples as they are the ones I can think of at the moment.
My best guess is that none of the law schools mentioned above has Puppy Therapy. No Law School would be complete without it.
https://cardozo.yu.edu/library/blog/pet ... ardozo-law
Are final exams stressing you out? Take a study break to play with "man's best friend"!

Intermountain Therapy Animals along with The Office of Student Services and Advising, the Student Bar Association and the Student Animal Legal Defense Fund bring you:

Pet Therapy!

Monday, April 24th, 1 p.m. - 2 p.m., faculty lounge*
http://thefederalist.com/2018/02/15/sch ... qus_thread
A professional legal educational institution is spending money to bring in puppies for grown adults — future litigators, future trial lawyers, people who are someday going to try rape and murder cases — so they can rub Fido and Spike’s furry little tummies and giggle while they piddle on the rug.


Just to be clear, the puppies are the ones who are piddling on the rug.


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Re: 20,000 enrollment by 2021?

Post by WeedKillinCat » Wed Feb 21, 2018 11:56 am

All 3 of my kids attended MSU. The first starting in 2012 and the last 2015. When the first 2 went in, they received a lot of info from MSU. None from u of m until the end of the process. By the time my youngest got into MSU, the u of m got a little better but not much. I think there is a lot of dysfunction over there. I would be thrilled to see us hit 20K students by 2021, but will the school or even Bozeman be able to handle it?


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Re: 20,000 enrollment by 2021?

Post by Rich K » Tue Mar 20, 2018 10:26 am

Kaimin video about recruiting and the different directions between MSU and um.
MSU spends more, but the difference in budgets does not justify the distance between results.

https://www.facebook.com/montanakaimin/ ... 485647070/


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Re: 20,000 enrollment by 2021?

Post by Bobcat4Ever » Tue Mar 20, 2018 4:02 pm

Rich K wrote:Kaimin video about recruiting and the different directions between MSU and um.
MSU spends more, but the difference in budgets does not justify the distance between results.

https://www.facebook.com/montanakaimin/ ... 485647070/
I'm going to borrow from Geno Auriemma who, when asked why he thought he would win, said "I have Diana Taurasi, and they don’t."

The difference in recruiting is we have Ronda Russell, and they don't.



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Re: 20,000 enrollment by 2021?

Post by KittieKop » Wed Mar 21, 2018 8:23 am

And now this two days ago:

http://missoulian.com/news/local/univer ... 0d931.html

They hire "their guy" who's going to turn the recruiting and retention problem around, pay him a $70,000 signing bonus and keep him on less than two years. Then not renew him and reorganize the recruiting and retention structure again, for the second time in two years as enrollment continues to decline.

There was a portion of one of the articles that tried to make the whole situation look positive, as their freshman enrollment number was up by something like 24 last semester, but overall they were still down, which means they're not retaining students either.

They've drastically dropped enrollment standards in a couple programs and are changing rules to encourage students to stay who maybe shouldn't be.

If a retailer were taking some of the drastic grasping-at-straws measures UM is taking, most people would look and see the signs of the company circling the drain and trying desperately to hang on. Though everyone knows what's eventually going to happen. The question is, are they going to hang on? What is UM ultimately going to look like in, say, 10 years? Are there going to still be 2 state universities? Or is there going to be "MSU-Billings"-sized college and a law school in Missoula?

I typically hate everything associated with UM and that city, but there gets a point I feel a little sorry for some of the people there with the lack of leadership and vision. The place at least from the outside continues to look like a circus.


"It was like a coordinated effort by the Missoulian and the police to bring UM Football program down..." eGriz 11/30/12

Now where did I leave my tinfoil hat?

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Re: 20,000 enrollment by 2021?

Post by RickRund » Wed Mar 21, 2018 2:48 pm

KittieKop wrote:And now this two days ago:

http://missoulian.com/news/local/univer ... 0d931.html

They hire "their guy" who's going to turn the recruiting and retention problem around, pay him a $70,000 signing bonus and keep him on less than two years. Then not renew him and reorganize the recruiting and retention structure again, for the second time in two years as enrollment continues to decline.

There was a portion of one of the articles that tried to make the whole situation look positive, as their freshman enrollment number was up by something like 24 last semester, but overall they were still down, which means they're not retaining students either.

They've drastically dropped enrollment standards in a couple programs and are changing rules to encourage students to stay who maybe shouldn't be.

If a retailer were taking some of the drastic grasping-at-straws measures UM is taking, most people would look and see the signs of the company circling the drain and trying desperately to hang on. Though everyone knows what's eventually going to happen. The question is, are they going to hang on? What is UM ultimately going to look like in, say, 10 years? Are there going to still be 2 state universities? Or is there going to be "MSU-Billings"-sized college and a law school in Missoula?

I typically hate everything associated with UM and that city, but there gets a point I feel a little sorry for some of the people there with the lack of leadership and vision. The place at least from the outside continues to look like a circus.
I understand they will restructure their recruiting and academics and follow the Toy's R Us pattern. Maybe Degrees R Us...



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Re: 20,000 enrollment by 2021?

Post by allcat » Wed Mar 21, 2018 5:39 pm

I wonder how UM compares to other liberal Arts schools. I also wonder how we compare to other stem schools. Is this trend nationwide, or is this specific?


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Re: 20,000 enrollment by 2021?

Post by KittieKop » Wed Mar 21, 2018 9:26 pm

allcat wrote:I wonder how UM compares to other liberal Arts schools. I also wonder how we compare to other stem schools. Is this trend nationwide, or is this specific?
That is an excellent question.


"It was like a coordinated effort by the Missoulian and the police to bring UM Football program down..." eGriz 11/30/12

Now where did I leave my tinfoil hat?

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Re: 20,000 enrollment by 2021?

Post by BigBruceBaker » Thu Mar 22, 2018 4:41 pm

KittieKop wrote:
allcat wrote:I wonder how UM compares to other liberal Arts schools. I also wonder how we compare to other stem schools. Is this trend nationwide, or is this specific?
That is an excellent question.
From what I know and understand the Liberal Art's schools across the nation are down in enrollment. STEM schools have been traditionally much stronger enrollment wise.

Trade schools are also on the rise (which is a great thing).


However I will be the first to say there is no way MSU will be above 20,000 enrollment in just 3 years. The facilities are not there and Bozeman cannot handle an additional 4,000 bodies. Something will need to be done with housing (rentals) and some sort of payback to the city of Bozeman for the monstrous growth of people that aren't contributing to the tax base, however are utilizing a lot of services. Just my .02


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Re: 20,000 enrollment by 2021?

Post by Cledus » Tue Mar 27, 2018 11:34 am

77matcat wrote:The opportunities to expand on that topic are too numerous to spend time on them.

But as long as we’re talking my personal favorite is the pass rate um law students have with the bar.

[emoji1][emoji1]


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I know the national pass rate for the bar is 58%. What is it at UM?

I've been a little bit of a snob about this in general. The pass rate for the CPA exam is less than 50% (I've passed it :D).

There are several different professional engineer designations, each with their own exam. Apparently they're not that hard, or engineers aren't as smart as they're generally given credit for being. As my memory serves that pass rate for most of them are over 70% and there's one that's at 78%.



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