Sen. Specter switches parties

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HelenaCat95
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Sen. Specter switches parties

Post by HelenaCat95 » Tue Apr 28, 2009 10:05 am

Sen. Arlen Specter of Pennsylvania switches from Repub to Dem, which if Al Franken holds up as Sen from Minnesota (which is very likely), gives the Democrats 60 votes, and a filibuster proof majority.

http://voices.washingtonpost.com/thefix ... rties.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;



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Re: Sen. Specter switches parties

Post by GrizinWashington » Tue Apr 28, 2009 10:11 am

Wow.

The news just continues to get worse for the Repub party. However, part of me wonders if this isn't simply being done because Arlen sees a better chance of being re-elected as a Democrat.

Either way, the Repub Party has got to move back toward the viewpoints of the majority of the American pupblic, or they facethe real possiblity of being completely marginalized, little more than a party of the reglious right.


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Re: Sen. Specter switches parties

Post by AlphaGriz1 » Tue Apr 28, 2009 10:19 am

Spector was a democrat long before he switched partys.

GinWa once again wrong.

Republicans are not representing the conservatives in this country, that is why they are being outted.

The current group of repubs are trying to hard to fit in with the left


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Re: Sen. Specter switches parties

Post by SonomaCat » Tue Apr 28, 2009 10:21 am

Maybe if they'd quit referring to anyone who didn't agree with Rush Limbaugh 100% as "RINOs," they'd have more success keeping people in their party.

There seems to be a faction within the party that wants to keep the party "pure" of any ideas that aren't in line with the far right. That's a recipe for the develpment of a very small party. They need to be more friendly and accepting of moderates. You don't see that kind of anagonism within the Democratic Party right now ... they seem to be more pragmatic and willing to bring in anybody that can help their cause (even conservative Democrats).

In California, the GOP actually tried to censure a couple Republicans in the legislature for voting with the Democrats (and Arnold) on the state budget. There's a really strange "Either you're with us or your against us" mentality that is making it hard for the moderates to be very loyal to the party.



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Re: Sen. Specter switches parties

Post by GrizinWashington » Tue Apr 28, 2009 10:38 am

No Alpha, you're wrong.
Republicans are not representing the conservatives in this country
If that statement had been, "The R's are not representing the financial conservatives in this country...." I'd agree with you.

Of course, the Republican party hasn't represented financial conservatism in over 50 years. The Dems do a better job of that.


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Re: Sen. Specter switches parties

Post by AlphaGriz1 » Tue Apr 28, 2009 10:44 am

Yes the dems do a better job of this and the proof is the position we find our country in today.

For much of the last 50 years they have been in control of the purse stings


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Re: Sen. Specter switches parties

Post by tampa_griz » Tue Apr 28, 2009 11:20 am

Specter did this to save his own hide. There's no way he would've made it through the Republican primary. He wants to keep his title and his parking space. He's a Senator....and this is all about him and he's not about to let us forget it.
Arlen Spector, in an interview with The Hill on March 17 wrote:[Democrats] are trying very hard for the 60th vote. Got to give them credit for trying. But the answer is no.

I'm not going to discuss private talks I had with other people who may or may not be considered influential. But since those three people are in the public domain, I think it is appropriative to respond to those questions.

I am staying a Republican because I think I have an important role, a more important role, to play there. The United States very desperately needs a two-party system. That's the basis of politics in America. I'm afraid we are becoming a one-party system, with Republicans becoming just a regional party with so little representation of the northeast or in the middle atlantic. I think as a governmental matter, it is very important to have a check and balance. That's a very important principle in the operation of our government. In the constitution on Separation of powers.



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Re: Sen. Specter switches parties

Post by SonomaCat » Tue Apr 28, 2009 11:38 am

tampa_griz wrote:Specter did this to save his own hide. There's no way he would've made it through the Republican primary. He wants to keep his title and his parking space. He's a Senator....and this is all about him and he's not about to let us forget it.
Well, yeah ... and he had to make this move to save his seat because the GOP was trying to oust him.

So if he wins the next election as a Democrat (which is quite likely), the Republicans will have effectively lost that much more power because of their insistence that nobody have ideas or opinions that don't line up with the party line.

Small tent = small part = no power.

This is why the Democrats didn't try to punish Lieberman this last time around -- they learned their lesson that it's better to have a contrarian within your own ranks than a loyalist playing for the other team.



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Re: Sen. Specter switches parties

Post by tampa_griz » Tue Apr 28, 2009 11:47 am

Bay Area Cat wrote:
tampa_griz wrote:Specter did this to save his own hide. There's no way he would've made it through the Republican primary. He wants to keep his title and his parking space. He's a Senator....and this is all about him and he's not about to let us forget it.
Well, yeah ... and he had to make this move to save his seat because the GOP was trying to oust him.

So if he wins the next election as a Democrat (which is quite likely), the Republicans will have effectively lost that much more power because of their insistence that nobody have ideas or opinions that don't line up with the party line.

Small tent = small part = no power.

This is why the Democrats didn't try to punish Lieberman this last time around -- they learned their lesson that it's better to have a contrarian within your own ranks than a loyalist playing for the other team.
Oh don't get me wrong, I'm glad we got to see who he really works for as well as reveal that his word is worthless. Nothing wrong with that at all.

As far as Democrats "not punishing Lieberman this last time around" goes....What do you mean by "this last time around"?



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Re: Sen. Specter switches parties

Post by HelenaCat95 » Tue Apr 28, 2009 11:53 am

BAC,
Just wondering what you mean by the Dems not punishing Lieberman. Do you mean not removing him from committees, seniority advantages, etc?
Or do you mean that they didn't run a candidate against him. Because it was the Democrats that ran a very viable candidate (Lamont) in the primary against Lieberman.
In fact, Lamont would have probably won that seat if Lieberman had not run as an Independent. And there was quite a call from the left-wing of the Democrat party at the time that it was time to oust Lieberman, as he was not "progressive" enough.

I guess that I'm not sure how the Democrats treatment of Lieberman is substantially different (or as I think your implying, better) than the Republicans treatment of Specter.



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Re: Sen. Specter switches parties

Post by SonomaCat » Tue Apr 28, 2009 12:02 pm

HelenaCat95 wrote:BAC,
Just wondering what you mean by the Dems not punishing Lieberman. Do you mean not removing him from committees, seniority advantages, etc?
Or do you mean that they didn't run a candidate against him. Because it was the Democrats that ran a very viable candidate (Lamont) in the primary against Lieberman.
In fact, Lamont would have probably won that seat if Lieberman had not run as an Independent. And there was quite a call from the left-wing of the Democrat party at the time that it was time to oust Lieberman, as he was not "progressive" enough.

I guess that I'm not sure how the Democrats treatment of Lieberman is substantially different (or as I think your implying, better) than the Republicans treatment of Specter.
I'm talking about this most recent time when he supported McCain (that why I said "this last time around" and "learned their lesson").

When they tried to purge him by running Lamont against him, it backfired on them (I assumed that bit of background was a known when I posted, as I was referencing that episode) ... a lesson they learned from when they welcomed him back post-McCain.

The GOP failed to learn from the mistakes of the Democrats, and it will hurt them.



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Re: Sen. Specter switches parties

Post by tampa_griz » Tue Apr 28, 2009 12:06 pm

Bay Area Cat wrote:
HelenaCat95 wrote:BAC,
Just wondering what you mean by the Dems not punishing Lieberman. Do you mean not removing him from committees, seniority advantages, etc?
Or do you mean that they didn't run a candidate against him. Because it was the Democrats that ran a very viable candidate (Lamont) in the primary against Lieberman.
In fact, Lamont would have probably won that seat if Lieberman had not run as an Independent. And there was quite a call from the left-wing of the Democrat party at the time that it was time to oust Lieberman, as he was not "progressive" enough.

I guess that I'm not sure how the Democrats treatment of Lieberman is substantially different (or as I think your implying, better) than the Republicans treatment of Specter.
I'm talking about this most recent time when he supported McCain (that why I said "this last time around" and "learned their lesson").

When they tried to purge him by running Lamont against him, it backfired on them (I assumed that bit of background was a known when I posted, as I was referencing that episode) ... a lesson they learned from when they welcomed him back post-McCain.

The GOP failed to learn from the mistakes of the Democrats, and it will hurt them.
Was Lieberman nearly defeated in a Democratic primary in 2008 when he threw his support to McCain? I thought Senators were up for election every six years.



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Re: Sen. Specter switches parties

Post by HelenaCat95 » Tue Apr 28, 2009 12:13 pm

Ok....I got you now.

I don't now if it will "backfire" or not.
Obviously in the short term, it will mean that the Democrats have a filibuster proof majority....at least until the next election, after which I'm not sure because I haven't looked at who's up and who's vulnerable. (Assuming Franken gets the MN seat....which I'm pretty sure he will).

In the medium term, I'm not sure that giving any party full control over the Government is a good thing....either for the nation or for that party. The Democrats will be held responsible for everything that happens, and will have no way to shift blame. Right now, the Republicans are out of power........why not let the Democrats have to answer for everything?

This will test the Democrat leadership, in that they will have to come up with solutions.
This will test the Republican leadership (whoever that is), in that they literally have no power.



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Re: Sen. Specter switches parties

Post by SonomaCat » Tue Apr 28, 2009 12:17 pm

tampa: Is there a point buried somewhere in that strange question?



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Re: Sen. Specter switches parties

Post by tampa_griz » Tue Apr 28, 2009 12:20 pm

Bay Area Cat wrote:tampa: Is there a point buried somewhere in that strange question?
How exactly was he "welcomed back" by the Democratic Party in 2008? Did his primary challenger drop out? Did they cancel impeachment proceedings?



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Re: Sen. Specter switches parties

Post by SonomaCat » Tue Apr 28, 2009 12:21 pm

tampa_griz wrote:
Bay Area Cat wrote:tampa: Is there a point buried somewhere in that strange question?
How exactly was he "welcomed back" by the Democratic Party in 2008? Did his primary challenger drop out? Did they cancel impeachment proceedings?
They made nice and let him keep all of his committee chairman positions. They could have stripped him of much of his power in the Senate, but they didn't (and not just because they all love Lieberman, but in order to keep him in the fold).



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Re: Sen. Specter switches parties

Post by tampa_griz » Tue Apr 28, 2009 12:26 pm

Bay Area Cat wrote:
tampa_griz wrote:
Bay Area Cat wrote:tampa: Is there a point buried somewhere in that strange question?
How exactly was he "welcomed back" by the Democratic Party in 2008? Did his primary challenger drop out? Did they cancel impeachment proceedings?
They made nice and let him keep all of his committee chairman positions. They could have stripped him of much of his power in the Senate, but they didn't (and not just because they all love Lieberman, but in order to keep him in the fold).
The Republicans stripped Specter o his committee seats?



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Re: Sen. Specter switches parties

Post by SonomaCat » Tue Apr 28, 2009 12:27 pm

Snowe has a similar take to what I said:

http://politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com/20 ... vastating/



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Re: Sen. Specter switches parties

Post by GrizinWashington » Tue Apr 28, 2009 12:31 pm

I'm not sure that giving any party full control over the Government is a good thing....either for the nation or for that party.
Agreed.


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Re: Sen. Specter switches parties

Post by tampa_griz » Tue Apr 28, 2009 12:31 pm

Bay Area Cat wrote:Snowe has a similar take to what I said:

http://politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com/20 ... vastating/
Well of course she does. She's a big-government Democrat too.



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