Anti-Tax Tea Partys

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Re: Anti-Tax Tea Partys

Post by SonomaCat » Wed Apr 15, 2009 4:36 pm

grizgirl wrote:Pardon me for being a Remedial Raylene, but how did this ever get wheels? We're (we being those of us making under $250K) paying less taxes now than a year ago. Shouldn't we be celebrating and thanking Obama and anyone that passed his tax cuts? I don't get it. Someone please explain.

I see the Hillbilly Brigade is out in full force in Billings, yippee!
Well, you see, now that a Republican is no longer the President and the Republicans no longer control the federal government, and since a Democratic President came into office during a massive recession, Fox News and the National PACs that funded this whole dealio have decided that deficit spending is now bad and must be protested.

It was a phenomena that wasn't that big of a deal last 4/15 ... but now it's a really, really, really terrible problem.

They do seem to be trying to protest taxes as well, but considering that taxes are about as low now as they have been pretty much anytime in our country's modern history, it's kind of hard to see their rallying cry on that side of it.



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Re: Anti-Tax Tea Partys

Post by AlphaGriz1 » Wed Apr 15, 2009 5:01 pm

These protests are all about government SPENDING our tax money on bailouts etc.


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Re: Anti-Tax Tea Partys

Post by SonomaCat » Wed Apr 15, 2009 5:09 pm

A voice of reason:
The irony of these protests is that federal revenues as a share of the gross domestic product will be lower this year than any year since 1950. According to the Congressional Budget Office, the federal government will take only 15.5% of GDP in taxes this year, compared to 17.7% last year, 18.8% in 2007 and 20.9% in 2000.

The truth is that the U.S. is a relatively low-tax country no matter how you slice the data. The following tables illustrate this fact by comparing the U.S. to other members of the Organization for Economic Cooperation and Development, a Paris-based research organization.
http://www.forbes.com/2009/04/09/tea-pa ... tlett.html



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Re: Anti-Tax Tea Partys

Post by SonomaCat » Wed Apr 15, 2009 5:10 pm

AlphaGriz1 wrote:These protests are all about government SPENDING our tax money on bailouts etc.
Beats a depression ... especially when the bailout money is repaid with interest.



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Re: Anti-Tax Tea Partys

Post by AlphaGriz1 » Wed Apr 15, 2009 5:24 pm

I would rather have a real depression instead of this media induced "crisis"


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Re: Anti-Tax Tea Partys

Post by SonomaCat » Wed Apr 15, 2009 5:28 pm

AlphaGriz1 wrote:I would rather have a real depression instead of this media induced "crisis"
I sure wish this on-going recession was just a media creation ... that would be a whole lot easier for everyone.

It was quite real ... which sucks.



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Re: Anti-Tax Tea Partys

Post by HassFan » Wed Apr 15, 2009 5:40 pm

Wish I could have attended to be counted... but, work got in the way as I'm sure it did for most. I really don't mind the idea of taxes to pay for the necessities of the country/humanity, etc. but I became a very reluctant taxpayer after taking a "government" job for a couple years. And the common mantra around there was - it is "White Man's Welfare" to have those decent jobs - that for the most part didn't contribute anything to society. A bunch of "workers" that have all the government money to spend and too much bureaucracy to accomplish anything. So when things start getting tense because no progress is being made on projects, we better shake things up and re-organize. I bet I had 8 different offices in the course of 2 years due to "restructuring" - because nobody could navigate the hurdles to get something done.

I'd say my glory time was when I was tasked with stopping violations of ambient particulate standards in the Idaho desert. Some bright environmental auditors from Washington DC deemed there was a violation of air quality standards when the wind blew. Well, dang, I didn't request any money to stop the wind from blowing or paving the desert - and about then I found a new job, so some other gv't schmuck could figure out how to comply with the all knowing gov't auditors "non-compliance" findings without a budget.


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Re: Anti-Tax Tea Partys

Post by Grizlaw » Wed Apr 15, 2009 6:03 pm

AlphaGriz1 wrote:I would rather have a real depression instead of this media induced "crisis"
I don't know what world you live in, but during this "media induced crisis" about a dozen of my close friends have lost their jobs, and have no immediate prospects for getting re-hired. I'm guessing this recession is feeling pretty friggin' real to them, wouldn't you think?

Montana is somewhat insulated from the world economy in a lot of ways, so you may not see it in your day-to-day life, but in most major cities in this country, this "media induced crisis" is about as real as it gets.


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Re: Anti-Tax Tea Partys

Post by grizgirl » Wed Apr 15, 2009 6:04 pm

Bay Area Cat wrote:
grizgirl wrote:Pardon me for being a Remedial Raylene, but how did this ever get wheels? We're (we being those of us making under $250K) paying less taxes now than a year ago. Shouldn't we be celebrating and thanking Obama and anyone that passed his tax cuts? I don't get it. Someone please explain.

I see the Hillbilly Brigade is out in full force in Billings, yippee!
Well, you see, now that a Republican is no longer the President and the Republicans no longer control the federal government, and since a Democratic President came into office during a massive recession, Fox News and the National PACs that funded this whole dealio have decided that deficit spending is now bad and must be protested.

It was a phenomena that wasn't that big of a deal last 4/15 ... but now it's a really, really, really terrible problem.

They do seem to be trying to protest taxes as well, but considering that taxes are about as low now as they have been pretty much anytime in our country's modern history, it's kind of hard to see their rallying cry on that side of it.
I'm trying to figure out how they're pulling this off. Is this a game of Pretend?



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Re: Anti-Tax Tea Partys

Post by GrizinWashington » Wed Apr 15, 2009 6:12 pm

Grizlaw wrote:
AlphaGriz1 wrote:I would rather have a real depression instead of this media induced "crisis"
I don't know what world you live in, but during this "media induced crisis" about a dozen of my close friends have lost their jobs, and have no immediate prospects for getting re-hired. I'm guessing this recession is feeling pretty friggin' real to them, wouldn't you think?

Montana is somewhat insulated from the world economy in a lot of ways, so you may not see it in your day-to-day life, but in most major cities in this country, this "media induced crisis" is about as real as it gets.
Exactly. Washington's unemployment is running 9.8%, and that's before accounting for the 35,000 additional layoffs Boeing just announced.

And the irony?? Montana is insulated from this horrible economy largely due to the huge amount of federal dollars spent in the state. Guess where those dollars come from? I'll give you a hint. The word starts with a "T".

But I guess some people just aren't smart enough to get it.


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Re: Anti-Tax Tea Partys

Post by AlphaGriz1 » Wed Apr 15, 2009 6:15 pm

Grizlaw wrote:
AlphaGriz1 wrote:I would rather have a real depression instead of this media induced "crisis"
I don't know what world you live in, but during this "media induced crisis" about a dozen of my close friends have lost their jobs, and have no immediate prospects for getting re-hired. I'm guessing this recession is feeling pretty friggin' real to them, wouldn't you think?

Montana is somewhat insulated from the world economy in a lot of ways, so you may not see it in your day-to-day life, but in most major cities in this country, this "media induced crisis" is about as real as it gets.

The only advice I can offer is for them to sit around and wait for the government to do something for them, it shouldn't be very long. :roll:


Whatever they do, please do not hint that they should take action on their own such as creating something that is needed, starting a business or volunteering. That is why we have this HUGE sucking monster.


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Re: Anti-Tax Tea Partys

Post by rook » Wed Apr 15, 2009 6:58 pm

I went to our local party for two reasons:

In our “low tax environment,” my 2008 taxes were 2.5 times the amount of my next highest expense category and approximately 90% of all my other expenses put together. In 2009 I will likely pay more in taxes than I spend on all other cash-outs put together. I will be spending more to meet my tax obligations than I spend on every other obligation and pleasure I have.

I might even be okay with paying that much if I was convinced that it was spent to benefit the “greater good.” But when it used to reward people who made poor life decisions and companies who make poor business decisions, I feel a strong revulsion. Most of the recent actions of congress regarding where to allocate tax receipts doesn’t fit my definition of the greater good.

The combination of my views of paying too many taxes and having it go to increasingly unacceptable “greater goods” made today’s party something worth supporting. I am undecided on whether my class distinction is middle class or hillbilly, but am not displeased that there isn’t a clear line.



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Re: Anti-Tax Tea Partys

Post by rook » Wed Apr 15, 2009 7:11 pm

roughly 18.1%- The above numbers included all seperable taxes: federal, state, Med,OASDI, property. I didn't have the data to figure taxes built in to the consumer goods I purchase or gasoline, but I could probably make an estimate. It would just make be irritable though.



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Re: Anti-Tax Tea Partys

Post by rook » Wed Apr 15, 2009 7:18 pm

BAC- did you post a question about tax rates to me? It seems to have disappeared. Are you trying to make me look bad for going to today's event? :wink:



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Re: Anti-Tax Tea Partys

Post by SonomaCat » Wed Apr 15, 2009 7:20 pm

rook wrote:BAC- did you post a question about tax rates to me? It seems to have disappeared. Are you trying to make me look bad for going to today's event? :wink:
I deleted one ... just because I decided after I posted it (and before you replied) that I didn't feel like going down a full analysis of your fact pattern on the board (even though that's the mode I go into in my own head). Sorry about that.



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Re: Anti-Tax Tea Partys

Post by rook » Wed Apr 15, 2009 7:23 pm

You can ask it, PM if you like to keep it nonpublic. I have a pretty good personal accounting system. It just takes me awhile to look it up. :D



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Re: Anti-Tax Tea Partys

Post by SonomaCat » Wed Apr 15, 2009 7:23 pm

rook wrote:roughly 18.1%- The above numbers included all seperable taxes: federal, state, Med,OASDI, property. I didn't have the data to figure taxes built in to the consumer goods I purchase or gasoline, but I could probably make an estimate. It would just make be irritable though.
If you are including all of those taxes ... dude, that's a really low total percentage.

You must keep a pretty lean budget to end up with the ratios you listed ... so are you able to put about 60% of your gross income into savings/investments? If so, that's impressive.



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Re: Anti-Tax Tea Partys

Post by SonomaCat » Wed Apr 15, 2009 7:26 pm

rook wrote:You can ask it, PM if you like to keep it nonpublic. I have a pretty good personal accounting system. It just takes me awhile to look it up. :D
Speaking of personal accounting systems ... I just started using Mint.com. Outside of the fact that one of the credit unions my wife uses doesn't currently upload to it (which really annoys me), I am loving it. So much easier than Quicken, and I can access it from anywhere (including my phone).

And no, I don't stand to personally gain from this promotion (although I kinda wish I would) ... I'm just loving it that much that I am doing pro bono pimping.



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Re: Anti-Tax Tea Partys

Post by rook » Wed Apr 15, 2009 7:30 pm

We may be cross wise. the 18% is federal income only, the 2.5X is all of my tax burden (expcet gas and consumer goods)



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Re: Anti-Tax Tea Partys

Post by SonomaCat » Wed Apr 15, 2009 7:33 pm

rook wrote:We may be cross wise. the 18% is federal income only, the 2.5X is all of my tax burden (expcet gas and consumer goods)
Ahhhh, gotcha. That makes a lot more sense and is more in line with what I see on my returns as well. I thought you were speaking to the 18.1% being fully inclusive, but now that I re-read it, I see where I misread your post.



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