Another big drop in UM-Missoula enrollment-7.6%

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Re: Another big drop in UM-Missoula enrollment-7.6%

Post by grizpack » Wed Oct 03, 2018 5:39 pm

This shows you what great leadership v. piss poor leadership does. MSU hit a home run with their President who turned things around in a big way in Bozeman, while UM was an unmitigated disaster under Engstrom.

I truly hope Bodner is the person to turn it around at UM. I like the leadership he is showing through this crisis, but time will tell.



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Re: Another big drop in UM-Missoula enrollment-7.6%

Post by iaafan » Tue Oct 09, 2018 1:16 pm

You like the leadership Bodnar is showing? He hired Hauck and members of the faculty and community responded negatively. You now have a lot of people at UM and Missoula rooting for the football team to lose. What has Bodnar accomplished in academics?

MSU just got $12 million gift for an American Indian hall. UM had always been the school of choice for Native Americans between MSU and UM, but that’s about to change. No one is investing in UM academics, but then with all the available space from enrollment dropping there isn’t a need



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Re: Another big drop in UM-Missoula enrollment-7.6%

Post by BozoneCat » Tue Oct 09, 2018 2:56 pm

iaafan wrote:
Tue Oct 09, 2018 1:16 pm
You like the leadership Bodnar is showing? He hired Hauck and members of the faculty and community responded negatively. You now have a lot of people at UM and Missoula rooting for the football team to lose. What has Bodnar accomplished in academics?

MSU just got $12 million gift for an American Indian hall. UM had always been the school of choice for Native Americans between MSU and UM, but that’s about to change. No one is investing in UM academics, but then with all the available space from enrollment dropping there isn’t a need
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Re: Another big drop in UM-Missoula enrollment-7.6%

Post by grizpack » Thu Oct 11, 2018 1:09 pm

iaafan wrote:
Tue Oct 09, 2018 1:16 pm
You like the leadership Bodnar is showing? He hired Hauck and members of the faculty and community responded negatively. You now have a lot of people at UM and Missoula rooting for the football team to lose. What has Bodnar accomplished in academics?

MSU just got $12 million gift for an American Indian hall. UM had always been the school of choice for Native Americans between MSU and UM, but that’s about to change. No one is investing in UM academics, but then with all the available space from enrollment dropping there isn’t a need
Yes. I think people are very excited by his leadership. He has done a great job getting people interested in the University again. You have no idea how bad it was in Missoula, and with alumni under Engstrom. The BOR finally figured it out. I can't speak for anyone else, but I believe people are very supportive of him.

Now the faculty is another issue. They haven't been happy with the athletic program since the beginning of time, and it won't change soon. Those in the faculty that are facing cuts are very unhappy. Those in programs that are doing well generally like Bodner. My recollection is that some of the MSU faculty wasn't very happy with your President when she came in and started kicking asses either.

And the hiring of Hauck is viewed as a positive with most. Some opponents are extremely vocal, as usual. But the vast majority supported it. However I will admit that no school is immune from the problems. They will happen again at UM, and they have and will happen again at MSU. Hopefully UM will handle them better this time around.



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Re: Another big drop in UM-Missoula enrollment-7.6%

Post by kennethnoisewater » Thu Oct 11, 2018 1:55 pm

grizpack wrote:
Thu Oct 11, 2018 1:09 pm
iaafan wrote:
Tue Oct 09, 2018 1:16 pm
You like the leadership Bodnar is showing? He hired Hauck and members of the faculty and community responded negatively. You now have a lot of people at UM and Missoula rooting for the football team to lose. What has Bodnar accomplished in academics?

MSU just got $12 million gift for an American Indian hall. UM had always been the school of choice for Native Americans between MSU and UM, but that’s about to change. No one is investing in UM academics, but then with all the available space from enrollment dropping there isn’t a need
Yes. I think people are very excited by his leadership. He has done a great job getting people interested in the University again. You have no idea how bad it was in Missoula, and with alumni under Engstrom. The BOR finally figured it out. I can't speak for anyone else, but I believe people are very supportive of him.

Now the faculty is another issue. They haven't been happy with the athletic program since the beginning of time, and it won't change soon. Those in the faculty that are facing cuts are very unhappy. Those in programs that are doing well generally like Bodner. My recollection is that some of the MSU faculty wasn't very happy with your President when she came in and started kicking asses either.

And the hiring of Hauck is viewed as a positive with most. Some opponents are extremely vocal, as usual. But the vast majority supported it. However I will admit that no school is immune from the problems. They will happen again at UM, and they have and will happen again at MSU. Hopefully UM will handle them better this time around.
Things have always been cyclical, but there is a major sea-change in higher education, and MSU is on the right side of that. Used to be, you could just get a degree in anything and be fine as long as you weren't trying to specialize in anything (accounting, medical, law, etc). Now the type of degree you have matters much more. Liberal Arts degrees aren't worth much anymore. Journalism, as a vocation, is all but dead. These are programs that carried UM for a long time. Business and pharmacy have been great for UM, but MSU has greatly added to its Business school, and that will continue to work in MSU's favor.

I literally have no idea what UM is going to do. I think alums are going to save the university though, they just need to have the right plan. They announced their $400M campaign and have over 80% of that raised. That has to help, but will it be throwing good money after bad? Time will tell.


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Re: Another big drop in UM-Missoula enrollment-7.6%

Post by BozoneCat » Thu Oct 11, 2018 2:32 pm

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Re: Another big drop in UM-Missoula enrollment-7.6%

Post by grizpack » Thu Oct 11, 2018 5:16 pm

kennethnoisewater wrote:
Thu Oct 11, 2018 1:55 pm
grizpack wrote:
Thu Oct 11, 2018 1:09 pm
iaafan wrote:
Tue Oct 09, 2018 1:16 pm
You like the leadership Bodnar is showing? He hired Hauck and members of the faculty and community responded negatively. You now have a lot of people at UM and Missoula rooting for the football team to lose. What has Bodnar accomplished in academics?

MSU just got $12 million gift for an American Indian hall. UM had always been the school of choice for Native Americans between MSU and UM, but that’s about to change. No one is investing in UM academics, but then with all the available space from enrollment dropping there isn’t a need
Yes. I think people are very excited by his leadership. He has done a great job getting people interested in the University again. You have no idea how bad it was in Missoula, and with alumni under Engstrom. The BOR finally figured it out. I can't speak for anyone else, but I believe people are very supportive of him.

Now the faculty is another issue. They haven't been happy with the athletic program since the beginning of time, and it won't change soon. Those in the faculty that are facing cuts are very unhappy. Those in programs that are doing well generally like Bodner. My recollection is that some of the MSU faculty wasn't very happy with your President when she came in and started kicking asses either.

And the hiring of Hauck is viewed as a positive with most. Some opponents are extremely vocal, as usual. But the vast majority supported it. However I will admit that no school is immune from the problems. They will happen again at UM, and they have and will happen again at MSU. Hopefully UM will handle them better this time around.
Things have always been cyclical, but there is a major sea-change in higher education, and MSU is on the right side of that. Used to be, you could just get a degree in anything and be fine as long as you weren't trying to specialize in anything (accounting, medical, law, etc). Now the type of degree you have matters much more. Liberal Arts degrees aren't worth much anymore. Journalism, as a vocation, is all but dead. These are programs that carried UM for a long time. Business and pharmacy have been great for UM, but MSU has greatly added to its Business school, and that will continue to work in MSU's favor.

I literally have no idea what UM is going to do. I think alums are going to save the university though, they just need to have the right plan. They announced their $400M campaign and have over 80% of that raised. That has to help, but will it be throwing good money after bad? Time will tell.
I agree with most of what you say. That is precisely why I think Bodner is a perfect leader right now. He doesn't come from academia. He realizes that Liberal Arts degrees aren't what they used to be. And you are exactly right about MSU being on the right side of the degrees that they offer. However UM has some promising areas that could be expanded too. I think you will see UM expanding areas that may compete with MSU also.

I don't know the way out, and I don't think there is a quick fix. However, as you said, it is cyclical. When I got out of high school, all of my classmates went to MSU. I went to UM. Then the tide changed, and UM was the school to go to. Now it has definitely changed again. As I said, it won't be a quick fix, but I think most are happy with the changes that are being made, and some of the prospects for change ahead.

Your information about the capital campaign is correct. It is closer to the $400M within the last week also. I know they had a couple of big commitments. The goal is much higher than that. However, that isn't the fix. The fix is to get students, both in-state and out-of-state to enroll. I am hopeful that by next fall, the news will be better for enrollment.

For now, MSU supporters should enjoy the academic ride you are on. It is a hell of a good one.

Quite frankly, as a tax payer, I hope that MSU sustains its' growth. I hope UM matches or exceeds it. That would be great for the State.



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Re: Another big drop in UM-Missoula enrollment-7.6%

Post by WeedKillinCat » Wed Oct 17, 2018 12:06 pm



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Re: Another big drop in UM-Missoula enrollment-7.6%

Post by BozoneCat » Wed Oct 17, 2018 3:21 pm

WeedKillinCat wrote:
Wed Oct 17, 2018 12:06 pm
Faculty reductions

http://www.kulr8.com/story/39303536/u-o ... ng-by-2021
Well, of course that's what you do. It would clearly be crazy to cut a proportionate amount of funding to the athletic department, or, you know, do something about your awful recruiting of new students. Good hell.


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Re: Another big drop in UM-Missoula enrollment-7.6%

Post by wbtfg » Fri Oct 19, 2018 10:37 am

It looks like the MUS just updated their enrollment data.

Freshman class:
MSU: 3,208
UM: 1,172

Total Headcount:
MSU: 16,186
UM: 9,565

MSU is 78% larger than UM. that's remarkable.



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Re: Another big drop in UM-Missoula enrollment-7.6%

Post by grizpack » Fri Oct 19, 2018 11:15 am

BozoneCat wrote:
Wed Oct 17, 2018 3:21 pm
WeedKillinCat wrote:
Wed Oct 17, 2018 12:06 pm
Faculty reductions

http://www.kulr8.com/story/39303536/u-o ... ng-by-2021
Well, of course that's what you do. It would clearly be crazy to cut a proportionate amount of funding to the athletic department, or, you know, do something about your awful recruiting of new students. Good hell.
The athletic department at UM receives far less institutional support than MSU does, as they are able to raise the money privately. The athletic department actually gives money to several other programs on campus. So there is that...

If some of the programs on campus cannot attract enough students, it makes sense to cut back, and put the resources where there is a need.

And they are working on the recruiting, but it has been a disaster the past few years. To show how inept the past administration was, they finally went back and found that the company who was hired to do the email and other follow up with prospective students wasn't following up or contacting the students after the initial contact. The company claimed it was a computer error... And no one had bothered to check on that for years.... It was a cluster-f*@k of epic proportions. I will readily acknowledge that UM is a LONG WAYS from being where it needs to be. But I think we are headed in the right direction.



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Re: Another big drop in UM-Missoula enrollment-7.6%

Post by John K » Fri Oct 19, 2018 12:01 pm

wbtfg wrote:
Fri Oct 19, 2018 10:37 am
It looks like the MUS just updated their enrollment data.

Freshman class:
MSU: 3,208
UM: 1,172

Total Headcount:
MSU: 16,186
UM: 9,565

MSU is 78% larger than UM. that's remarkable.
That's just for the main campuses...right? Those numbers don't include the COT's for either school? That really is amazing, considering they were still slightly larger than us only about 4 or 5 years ago...maybe 6 at the most.



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Re: Another big drop in UM-Missoula enrollment-7.6%

Post by wbtfg » Fri Oct 19, 2018 12:37 pm

John K wrote:
Fri Oct 19, 2018 12:01 pm
wbtfg wrote:
Fri Oct 19, 2018 10:37 am
It looks like the MUS just updated their enrollment data.

Freshman class:
MSU: 3,208
UM: 1,172

Total Headcount:
MSU: 16,186
UM: 9,565

MSU is 78% larger than UM. that's remarkable.
That's just for the main campuses...right? Those numbers don't include the COT's for either school? That really is amazing, considering they were still slightly larger than us only about 4 or 5 years ago...maybe 6 at the most.
Yes, main campus numbers. Follow the link coachouert posted at the beginning of the thread. It has lots of interesting data on there.



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Re: Another big drop in UM-Missoula enrollment-7.6%

Post by BozoneCat » Fri Oct 19, 2018 2:18 pm

wbtfg wrote:
Fri Oct 19, 2018 10:37 am
It looks like the MUS just updated their enrollment data.

Freshman class:
MSU: 3,208
UM: 1,172

Total Headcount:
MSU: 16,186
UM: 9,565

MSU is 78% larger than UM. that's remarkable.
What's truly remarkable at this point is that 1172 young students got fooled into enrolling at that dumpster fire of a school. :-^


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Re: Another big drop in UM-Missoula enrollment-7.6%

Post by John K » Fri Oct 19, 2018 3:50 pm

It's almost unbelievable that our incoming freshman class is almost three times as large as UM's. I posted this earlier in this thread, but it really put things into perspective, that their enrollment is almost exactly halfway in between MSU-Billings and MSU-Bozeman. MSU-B is about 3,000 without their COT, so UM is right at 6,500 less than MSU, and 6.500 more than MSU-B.



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Re: Another big drop in UM-Missoula enrollment-7.6%

Post by Hawks86 » Thu Nov 08, 2018 11:18 am



Fun game to read these articles and find "the flagship."


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Re: Another big drop in UM-Missoula enrollment-7.6%

Post by ilovethecats » Thu Nov 08, 2018 12:06 pm

BozoneCat wrote:
Fri Oct 19, 2018 2:18 pm
wbtfg wrote:
Fri Oct 19, 2018 10:37 am
It looks like the MUS just updated their enrollment data.

Freshman class:
MSU: 3,208
UM: 1,172

Total Headcount:
MSU: 16,186
UM: 9,565

MSU is 78% larger than UM. that's remarkable.
What's truly remarkable at this point is that 1172 young students got fooled into enrolling at that dumpster fire of a school. :-^
I agree. People are shocked at their decline but I find myself more surprised that they have almost 10K kids who willingly went there. 8)



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Re: Another big drop in UM-Missoula enrollment-7.6%

Post by BelgradeBobcat » Thu Nov 08, 2018 12:49 pm

I think they need to feature more clips from football games in their promotional ads. 3 or 4 per ad just ain't enough. :-^



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Re: Another big drop in UM-Missoula enrollment-7.6%

Post by BozoneCat » Thu Nov 08, 2018 1:03 pm

BelgradeBobcat wrote:
Thu Nov 08, 2018 12:49 pm
I think they need to feature more clips from football games in their promotional ads. 3 or 4 per ad just ain't enough. :-^
And at least 3 or 4 clips of Monte as well. Because, you know, that is really what school is all about. :roll:


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Re: Another big drop in UM-Missoula enrollment-7.6%

Post by Mtcatfan » Thu Nov 08, 2018 1:34 pm

And the river.



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