Trumpcare.

A place to share your views and make your case on any issues fit to discuss.

Moderators: SonomaCat, rtb, kmax

Re: Trumpcare.

Postby ChiOCat on Fri Mar 17, 2017 8:31 pm

91catAlum wrote:
ChiOCat wrote:
BigBruceBaker wrote:
Joe Bobcat wrote:
BigBruceBaker wrote:Love it. It's completely fixed over 30 years of issues. Brilliant!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Please clarify each and every issue that has been fixed and how they have been fixed.
Concerning some of these issues, does fixed equal whitewashed over?


.....it was sarcasm. TrumpCare won't fix anything much like ObamaCare didn't fix anything. ObamaCare took an almost broken system and increased costs for LOTS of people by raising premiums 75-200%.

There are only two options as I see it. Go to a government ran healthcare and acknowledge and understand our quality of care will decrease significantly over time both with availability of doctors and doctors that actually want to go into the field knowing with the extraordinary amount of student loans they have they will be under paid. This system would only be feasible if every single person that gets a form of check, i.e. Payroll, social security, disability pays a portion (10-15%) directly into this healthcare pot. That would raise many "middle class people" myself included to around a 50% tax bracket. (Just shy of 50, maybe 45%)

Or overhaul how insurance carriers charge people, how they charge hospitals, how hospitals charge, and how people that have no health insurance and choose to go to the er for their primary care and WILL NOT pay their bills are forced to pay. The people listed before are one of probably 15 reasons why our insurance rates keep going up, if an entity has to continue to eat millions of dollars in services because they can't collect payment, who do you think covers those costs?

What do you say Joe, got any ideas?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Agree almost 100%. I'm still not behind the Universal Healthcare because, as you said, quality will decline. And if there is t one privately funded health care driving research - it's going to decline much more world wide IMHO. But, I did just get an ultrasound and X-ray bulk billed (only charged what Australian Medicare will cover) and scheduled an MRI for my son that will also be bulk billed. That is definitely a perk, but given what we've paid in taxes it's still not "free".

I think there needs to be a greater push for HSA's and people paying for their routine health care. Put people back in the process and they will shop for better prices. They currently don't care because it's covered by insurance so providers can charge what they want.

Not only does quality decline, but usage goes up dramatically when it's "free", and before you know it, you're Canada where people wait in line 15 months for some procedures.

My best friend had a double mastectomy and hysterectomy last year. She was scheduled for surgery and had it done within a month.

But, she had the fly to Brisbane. Our town of 100,000 doesn't have chemo or radiation available. Cancer patients have to travel to Townsville. Which is also a flight, but the govt pays.


I don't think people "use it more". It's just managed differently.
"We are all vulnerable, and all fallible, with mortality our only certainty..." - Dr Kenneth Bock
ChiOCat
BobcatNation Hall of Famer
BobcatNation Hall of Famer
 
Posts: 3433
Joined: Wed Nov 02, 2005 5:25 pm
Location: Down Under


Re: Trumpcare.

Postby 91catAlum on Fri Mar 17, 2017 10:26 pm

ChiOCat wrote:
91catAlum wrote:
ChiOCat wrote:
BigBruceBaker wrote:
Joe Bobcat wrote:
BigBruceBaker wrote:Love it. It's completely fixed over 30 years of issues. Brilliant!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Please clarify each and every issue that has been fixed and how they have been fixed.
Concerning some of these issues, does fixed equal whitewashed over?


.....it was sarcasm. TrumpCare won't fix anything much like ObamaCare didn't fix anything. ObamaCare took an almost broken system and increased costs for LOTS of people by raising premiums 75-200%.

There are only two options as I see it. Go to a government ran healthcare and acknowledge and understand our quality of care will decrease significantly over time both with availability of doctors and doctors that actually want to go into the field knowing with the extraordinary amount of student loans they have they will be under paid. This system would only be feasible if every single person that gets a form of check, i.e. Payroll, social security, disability pays a portion (10-15%) directly into this healthcare pot. That would raise many "middle class people" myself included to around a 50% tax bracket. (Just shy of 50, maybe 45%)

Or overhaul how insurance carriers charge people, how they charge hospitals, how hospitals charge, and how people that have no health insurance and choose to go to the er for their primary care and WILL NOT pay their bills are forced to pay. The people listed before are one of probably 15 reasons why our insurance rates keep going up, if an entity has to continue to eat millions of dollars in services because they can't collect payment, who do you think covers those costs?

What do you say Joe, got any ideas?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Agree almost 100%. I'm still not behind the Universal Healthcare because, as you said, quality will decline. And if there is t one privately funded health care driving research - it's going to decline much more world wide IMHO. But, I did just get an ultrasound and X-ray bulk billed (only charged what Australian Medicare will cover) and scheduled an MRI for my son that will also be bulk billed. That is definitely a perk, but given what we've paid in taxes it's still not "free".

I think there needs to be a greater push for HSA's and people paying for their routine health care. Put people back in the process and they will shop for better prices. They currently don't care because it's covered by insurance so providers can charge what they want.

Not only does quality decline, but usage goes up dramatically when it's "free", and before you know it, you're Canada where people wait in line 15 months for some procedures.

My best friend had a double mastectomy and hysterectomy last year. She was scheduled for surgery and had it done within a month.

But, she had the fly to Brisbane. Our town of 100,000 doesn't have chemo or radiation available. Cancer patients have to travel to Townsville. Which is also a flight, but the govt pays.


I don't think people "use it more". It's just managed differently.

Yikes, well that's good she got it done quickly. I don't know about all procedures but I know an ACL reconstruction was a 15 month waiting list a couple years ago. Not a life-threatening condition, but still pretty surprising.

I was referring to usage in general. Usage absolutely goes up when the price goes down. People are much more likely to see a doctor for a bad cold, sore throat, a flu bug, etc, if it costs nothing, than say if they had a $50 copay.
You were probably referring just to surgical procedures which is probably true.
Image
91catAlum
Golden Bobcat
Golden Bobcat
 
Posts: 4098
Joined: Sun Nov 21, 2010 4:41 pm
Location: Clancy, MT

Re: Trumpcare.

Postby ChiOCat on Sat Mar 18, 2017 2:51 am

91catAlum wrote:
ChiOCat wrote:
91catAlum wrote:
ChiOCat wrote:
BigBruceBaker wrote:
Joe Bobcat wrote:
BigBruceBaker wrote:Love it. It's completely fixed over 30 years of issues. Brilliant!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Please clarify each and every issue that has been fixed and how they have been fixed.
Concerning some of these issues, does fixed equal whitewashed over?


.....it was sarcasm. TrumpCare won't fix anything much like ObamaCare didn't fix anything. ObamaCare took an almost broken system and increased costs for LOTS of people by raising premiums 75-200%.

There are only two options as I see it. Go to a government ran healthcare and acknowledge and understand our quality of care will decrease significantly over time both with availability of doctors and doctors that actually want to go into the field knowing with the extraordinary amount of student loans they have they will be under paid. This system would only be feasible if every single person that gets a form of check, i.e. Payroll, social security, disability pays a portion (10-15%) directly into this healthcare pot. That would raise many "middle class people" myself included to around a 50% tax bracket. (Just shy of 50, maybe 45%)

Or overhaul how insurance carriers charge people, how they charge hospitals, how hospitals charge, and how people that have no health insurance and choose to go to the er for their primary care and WILL NOT pay their bills are forced to pay. The people listed before are one of probably 15 reasons why our insurance rates keep going up, if an entity has to continue to eat millions of dollars in services because they can't collect payment, who do you think covers those costs?

What do you say Joe, got any ideas?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Agree almost 100%. I'm still not behind the Universal Healthcare because, as you said, quality will decline. And if there is t one privately funded health care driving research - it's going to decline much more world wide IMHO. But, I did just get an ultrasound and X-ray bulk billed (only charged what Australian Medicare will cover) and scheduled an MRI for my son that will also be bulk billed. That is definitely a perk, but given what we've paid in taxes it's still not "free".

I think there needs to be a greater push for HSA's and people paying for their routine health care. Put people back in the process and they will shop for better prices. They currently don't care because it's covered by insurance so providers can charge what they want.

Not only does quality decline, but usage goes up dramatically when it's "free", and before you know it, you're Canada where people wait in line 15 months for some procedures.

My best friend had a double mastectomy and hysterectomy last year. She was scheduled for surgery and had it done within a month.

But, she had the fly to Brisbane. Our town of 100,000 doesn't have chemo or radiation available. Cancer patients have to travel to Townsville. Which is also a flight, but the govt pays.


I don't think people "use it more". It's just managed differently.

Yikes, well that's good she got it done quickly. I don't know about all procedures but I know an ACL reconstruction was a 15 month waiting list a couple years ago. Not a life-threatening condition, but still pretty surprising.

I was referring to usage in general. Usage absolutely goes up when the price goes down. People are much more likely to see a doctor for a bad cold, sore throat, a flu bug, etc, if it costs nothing, than say if they had a $50 copay.
You were probably referring just to surgical procedures which is probably true.

Welll, the MRI for my son is a follow up to ACL reconstruction. We went private and never even considered otherwise. We had a fantastic experience. And our private Dr chose to postpone another 6 months just to make sure he was done growing, I now understand time for ACL surgery isn't a rush.

There was a bill a few years ago to put a $4 or $6 copay for a bulk bill visit to reduce the number of unnecessary dr visits. People cried holy hell! It was u real.

Like I said, I'm not sold on it. Just offering some experiences we've had. And most Americans here list it as one of their favourite things about Aus. And of course Australians can't understand why the US doesn't already have it.
"We are all vulnerable, and all fallible, with mortality our only certainty..." - Dr Kenneth Bock
ChiOCat
BobcatNation Hall of Famer
BobcatNation Hall of Famer
 
Posts: 3433
Joined: Wed Nov 02, 2005 5:25 pm
Location: Down Under

Re: Trumpcare.

Postby BigBruceBaker on Sat Mar 18, 2017 7:12 am

ChiOCat wrote:
BigBruceBaker wrote:
Joe Bobcat wrote:
BigBruceBaker wrote:Love it. It's completely fixed over 30 years of issues. Brilliant!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Please clarify each and every issue that has been fixed and how they have been fixed.
Concerning some of these issues, does fixed equal whitewashed over?


.....it was sarcasm. TrumpCare won't fix anything much like ObamaCare didn't fix anything. ObamaCare took an almost broken system and increased costs for LOTS of people by raising premiums 75-200%.

There are only two options as I see it. Go to a government ran healthcare and acknowledge and understand our quality of care will decrease significantly over time both with availability of doctors and doctors that actually want to go into the field knowing with the extraordinary amount of student loans they have they will be under paid. This system would only be feasible if every single person that gets a form of check, i.e. Payroll, social security, disability pays a portion (10-15%) directly into this healthcare pot. That would raise many "middle class people" myself included to around a 50% tax bracket. (Just shy of 50, maybe 45%)

Or overhaul how insurance carriers charge people, how they charge hospitals, how hospitals charge, and how people that have no health insurance and choose to go to the er for their primary care and WILL NOT pay their bills are forced to pay. The people listed before are one of probably 15 reasons why our insurance rates keep going up, if an entity has to continue to eat millions of dollars in services because they can't collect payment, who do you think covers those costs?

What do you say Joe, got any ideas?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Agree almost 100%. I'm still not behind the Universal Healthcare because, as you said, quality will decline. And if there is t one privately funded health care driving research - it's going to decline much more world wide IMHO. But, I did just get an ultrasound and X-ray bulk billed (only charged what Australian Medicare will cover) and scheduled an MRI for my son that will also be bulk billed. That is definitely a perk, but given what we've paid in taxes it's still not "free".

I think there needs to be a greater push for HSA's and people paying for their routine health care. Put people back in the process and they will shop for better prices. They currently don't care because it's covered by insurance so providers can charge what they want.


I'm really uniformed about the Australian health care system, I'll read up on it. Thanks for the info!

Out of curiosity what is your tax rate? Is that above or below the US's?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
I love the Bobcats and the Miami Hurricanes an unhealthy level
User avatar
BigBruceBaker
Member # Retired
Member # Retired
 
Posts: 2902
Joined: Thu Jan 31, 2008 1:24 pm
Location: Sidney

Re: Trumpcare.

Postby TomCat88 on Sat Mar 18, 2017 7:26 am

BigBruceBaker wrote:
ChiOCat wrote:
BigBruceBaker wrote:
Joe Bobcat wrote:
BigBruceBaker wrote:Love it. It's completely fixed over 30 years of issues. Brilliant!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Please clarify each and every issue that has been fixed and how they have been fixed.
Concerning some of these issues, does fixed equal whitewashed over?


.....it was sarcasm. TrumpCare won't fix anything much like ObamaCare didn't fix anything. ObamaCare took an almost broken system and increased costs for LOTS of people by raising premiums 75-200%.

There are only two options as I see it. Go to a government ran healthcare and acknowledge and understand our quality of care will decrease significantly over time both with availability of doctors and doctors that actually want to go into the field knowing with the extraordinary amount of student loans they have they will be under paid. This system would only be feasible if every single person that gets a form of check, i.e. Payroll, social security, disability pays a portion (10-15%) directly into this healthcare pot. That would raise many "middle class people" myself included to around a 50% tax bracket. (Just shy of 50, maybe 45%)

Or overhaul how insurance carriers charge people, how they charge hospitals, how hospitals charge, and how people that have no health insurance and choose to go to the er for their primary care and WILL NOT pay their bills are forced to pay. The people listed before are one of probably 15 reasons why our insurance rates keep going up, if an entity has to continue to eat millions of dollars in services because they can't collect payment, who do you think covers those costs?

What do you say Joe, got any ideas?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Agree almost 100%. I'm still not behind the Universal Healthcare because, as you said, quality will decline. And if there is t one privately funded health care driving research - it's going to decline much more world wide IMHO. But, I did just get an ultrasound and X-ray bulk billed (only charged what Australian Medicare will cover) and scheduled an MRI for my son that will also be bulk billed. That is definitely a perk, but given what we've paid in taxes it's still not "free".

I think there needs to be a greater push for HSA's and people paying for their routine health care. Put people back in the process and they will shop for better prices. They currently don't care because it's covered by insurance so providers can charge what they want.


I'm really uniformed about the Australian health care system, I'll read up on it. Thanks for the info!

Out of curiosity what is your tax rate? Is that above or below the US's?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Triple Bs and ChiO have got this boiled down to the usual one-on-one face off we almost always have in America.
14-3; 51-?
toM StUber
TomCat88
Golden Bobcat
Golden Bobcat
 
Posts: 11002
Joined: Thu Oct 23, 2008 6:16 am
Location: An endless run of moguls

Re: Trumpcare.

Postby ChiOCat on Sat Mar 18, 2017 7:23 pm

BigBruceBaker wrote:
ChiOCat wrote:
BigBruceBaker wrote:
Joe Bobcat wrote:
BigBruceBaker wrote:Love it. It's completely fixed over 30 years of issues. Brilliant!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Please clarify each and every issue that has been fixed and how they have been fixed.
Concerning some of these issues, does fixed equal whitewashed over?


.....it was sarcasm. TrumpCare won't fix anything much like ObamaCare didn't fix anything. ObamaCare took an almost broken system and increased costs for LOTS of people by raising premiums 75-200%.

There are only two options as I see it. Go to a government ran healthcare and acknowledge and understand our quality of care will decrease significantly over time both with availability of doctors and doctors that actually want to go into the field knowing with the extraordinary amount of student loans they have they will be under paid. This system would only be feasible if every single person that gets a form of check, i.e. Payroll, social security, disability pays a portion (10-15%) directly into this healthcare pot. That would raise many "middle class people" myself included to around a 50% tax bracket. (Just shy of 50, maybe 45%)

Or overhaul how insurance carriers charge people, how they charge hospitals, how hospitals charge, and how people that have no health insurance and choose to go to the er for their primary care and WILL NOT pay their bills are forced to pay. The people listed before are one of probably 15 reasons why our insurance rates keep going up, if an entity has to continue to eat millions of dollars in services because they can't collect payment, who do you think covers those costs?

What do you say Joe, got any ideas?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Agree almost 100%. I'm still not behind the Universal Healthcare because, as you said, quality will decline. And if there is t one privately funded health care driving research - it's going to decline much more world wide IMHO. But, I did just get an ultrasound and X-ray bulk billed (only charged what Australian Medicare will cover) and scheduled an MRI for my son that will also be bulk billed. That is definitely a perk, but given what we've paid in taxes it's still not "free".

I think there needs to be a greater push for HSA's and people paying for their routine health care. Put people back in the process and they will shop for better prices. They currently don't care because it's covered by insurance so providers can charge what they want.


I'm really uniformed about the Australian health care system, I'll read up on it. Thanks for the info!

Out of curiosity what is your tax rate? Is that above or below the US's?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Lest just say we pay enough in taxes here that we are exempted from US taxes. The tax rate is quite high here! I frequently correct people when they call it Free Healthcare. ITS NOT FREE!!!
"We are all vulnerable, and all fallible, with mortality our only certainty..." - Dr Kenneth Bock
ChiOCat
BobcatNation Hall of Famer
BobcatNation Hall of Famer
 
Posts: 3433
Joined: Wed Nov 02, 2005 5:25 pm
Location: Down Under

Re: Trumpcare.

Postby ChiOCat on Sat Mar 18, 2017 7:24 pm

TomCat88 wrote:
BigBruceBaker wrote:
ChiOCat wrote:
BigBruceBaker wrote:
Joe Bobcat wrote:
BigBruceBaker wrote:Love it. It's completely fixed over 30 years of issues. Brilliant!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Please clarify each and every issue that has been fixed and how they have been fixed.
Concerning some of these issues, does fixed equal whitewashed over?


.....it was sarcasm. TrumpCare won't fix anything much like ObamaCare didn't fix anything. ObamaCare took an almost broken system and increased costs for LOTS of people by raising premiums 75-200%.

There are only two options as I see it. Go to a government ran healthcare and acknowledge and understand our quality of care will decrease significantly over time both with availability of doctors and doctors that actually want to go into the field knowing with the extraordinary amount of student loans they have they will be under paid. This system would only be feasible if every single person that gets a form of check, i.e. Payroll, social security, disability pays a portion (10-15%) directly into this healthcare pot. That would raise many "middle class people" myself included to around a 50% tax bracket. (Just shy of 50, maybe 45%)

Or overhaul how insurance carriers charge people, how they charge hospitals, how hospitals charge, and how people that have no health insurance and choose to go to the er for their primary care and WILL NOT pay their bills are forced to pay. The people listed before are one of probably 15 reasons why our insurance rates keep going up, if an entity has to continue to eat millions of dollars in services because they can't collect payment, who do you think covers those costs?

What do you say Joe, got any ideas?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Agree almost 100%. I'm still not behind the Universal Healthcare because, as you said, quality will decline. And if there is t one privately funded health care driving research - it's going to decline much more world wide IMHO. But, I did just get an ultrasound and X-ray bulk billed (only charged what Australian Medicare will cover) and scheduled an MRI for my son that will also be bulk billed. That is definitely a perk, but given what we've paid in taxes it's still not "free".

I think there needs to be a greater push for HSA's and people paying for their routine health care. Put people back in the process and they will shop for better prices. They currently don't care because it's covered by insurance so providers can charge what they want.


I'm really uniformed about the Australian health care system, I'll read up on it. Thanks for the info!

Out of curiosity what is your tax rate? Is that above or below the US's?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Triple Bs and ChiO have got this boiled down to the usual one-on-one face off we almost always have in America.

Only....that was the first time BBB had replied to my comments....
"We are all vulnerable, and all fallible, with mortality our only certainty..." - Dr Kenneth Bock
ChiOCat
BobcatNation Hall of Famer
BobcatNation Hall of Famer
 
Posts: 3433
Joined: Wed Nov 02, 2005 5:25 pm
Location: Down Under

Re: Trumpcare.

Postby wbtfg on Fri Mar 24, 2017 3:57 pm

RIP trumpcare. Between this and the Muslim ban, trump is off to a rough start.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
User avatar
wbtfg
Golden Bobcat
Golden Bobcat
 
Posts: 7956
Joined: Sat Apr 03, 2004 12:52 pm

Re: Trumpcare.

Postby BigBruceBaker on Fri Mar 24, 2017 4:24 pm

wbtfg wrote:RIP trumpcare. Between this and the Muslim ban, trump is off to a rough start.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


TrumpCare was a huge mistake. Stupid from the get go.

What is the Muslim Ban? Would love to hear more about it so I could understand it.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
I love the Bobcats and the Miami Hurricanes an unhealthy level
User avatar
BigBruceBaker
Member # Retired
Member # Retired
 
Posts: 2902
Joined: Thu Jan 31, 2008 1:24 pm
Location: Sidney

Trumpcare.

Postby wbtfg on Fri Mar 24, 2017 4:30 pm

"Immigration reform" that targeted muslim countries.

The one that was poorly thought out, poorly written, and poorly executed

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
User avatar
wbtfg
Golden Bobcat
Golden Bobcat
 
Posts: 7956
Joined: Sat Apr 03, 2004 12:52 pm

Re: Trumpcare.

Postby 91catAlum on Fri Mar 24, 2017 5:03 pm

wbtfg wrote:RIP trumpcare. Between this and the Muslim ban, trump is off to a rough start.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Muslim ban, lol!!!
Image
91catAlum
Golden Bobcat
Golden Bobcat
 
Posts: 4098
Joined: Sun Nov 21, 2010 4:41 pm
Location: Clancy, MT

Re: Trumpcare.

Postby 91catAlum on Fri Mar 24, 2017 5:16 pm

wbtfg wrote:"Immigration reform" that targeted muslim countries.

The one that was poorly thought out, poorly written, and poorly executed

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Trump hasn't touched immigration reform yet. That will involve how to deal with illegal immigrants in the US.
What you are referring to is the ban on travel from 7 dangerous or unstable countries, like Syria, Yemen, Iran, etc.
A ban on Muslims entering the US would've​ involved​ about 40 countries.
C'mon man.
Image
91catAlum
Golden Bobcat
Golden Bobcat
 
Posts: 4098
Joined: Sun Nov 21, 2010 4:41 pm
Location: Clancy, MT

Re: Trumpcare.

Postby wbtfg on Fri Mar 24, 2017 5:50 pm

91catAlum wrote:
wbtfg wrote:"Immigration reform" that targeted muslim countries.

The one that was poorly thought out, poorly written, and poorly executed

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Trump hasn't touched immigration reform yet. That will involve how to deal with illegal immigrants in the US.
What you are referring to is the ban on travel from 7 dangerous or unstable countries, like Syria, Yemen, Iran, etc.
A ban on Muslims entering the US would've​ involved​ about 40 countries.
C'mon man.


Yeah. That's the one.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
User avatar
wbtfg
Golden Bobcat
Golden Bobcat
 
Posts: 7956
Joined: Sat Apr 03, 2004 12:52 pm

Re: Trumpcare.

Postby BigBruceBaker on Fri Mar 24, 2017 8:05 pm

wbtfg wrote:"Immigration reform" that targeted muslim countries.

The one that was poorly thought out, poorly written, and poorly executed

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Oh cool ok. I thought I had missed a Muslim Ban where every Muslim had been singled out. I know the bill where he banned certain countries residents (regardless of religion) from entering this country for 120 days.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
I love the Bobcats and the Miami Hurricanes an unhealthy level
User avatar
BigBruceBaker
Member # Retired
Member # Retired
 
Posts: 2902
Joined: Thu Jan 31, 2008 1:24 pm
Location: Sidney

Previous

Return to Discussing the Issues

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest