Cats WBB

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BobcatDel
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Re: Cats WBB

Post by BobcatDel » Mon Apr 22, 2019 11:33 pm

arvcat2 wrote:
Mon Apr 22, 2019 6:28 pm
Catlady wrote:
Wed Apr 17, 2019 9:46 pm
Is this even a debate? I think the key is to win championships! I don’t care if the players are from Venus! I know it’s the off season, but can we get back to talking about putting together a winning basketball team? Binford is doing her job and has built a solid program. Montana, Wyoming, Mars........ lets find players that can contribute!
The in-state versus out-of-state debate is timeless so accept it. There are few if any Cat fans that believe that any Cat team should be exclusively all in-state kids. However, there seems to be a significant number of Cat fans that have no issue with our teams being predominately or entirely made up of out-of-state kids. A Montana State team should have a healthy representation of in-state athletes for the reason that BobcatDel posted today and is:
“I guess some would call it civic pride, hometown pride, state pride, country pride (ex. olympics wanting to see an American kid do well). It might be more prevalent than you think.”
Coach Choate (with BJ Robertson’s continual prodding) gets it, Coach Sprinkle has given lip service to it (time will tell) but I don’t believe Coach Binford possesses that viewpoint.
As Peyton Ferris is held up as the shining example of Binford’s in-state recruiting, can someone educate me on Peyton’s recruiting history? Was she highly sought after by the Griz (and/or other DI teams) and a recruiting coup or was she more of a lucky “get” to fill out a recruiting class?
I can't be definitive on Ferris recruiting because I was out of state at the time. However, I have personally heard Coach Binford say on more than one occasion that everyone wanted Ferris and she had multiple offers.... but I don't know who from. She did lead Twin Bridges to a state title "almost single handedly" (words from an associate but I didn't see it) so a lot of people saw her. She did have the knee issue which might have caused some teams to pull back a bit.

Also, remember that Binford has recruited other Montana girls that were very successful in her tenure also. Ferris was a standout. But on the 2009-10 club that played for the tourney title she had two freshmen in Semansky from Highwood and Albert-Brumwell from Hamilton that both rose to the 1000 point club. The 2015-16 team that won the regular season title but not the conference tourney included Ferris and Dawkins from Bozeman who ranks 6th in blocks all time and was hell for endurance playing in over 118 games. Of course 2016-17 was all Ferris with a good supporting crew around her in Nordgaard, Caudill, etc.

Just my last comment. I am not an all-Montana team guy but 1) when I interact with the current team members the lady Bobcats love it... Binford has created an atmosphere where the girls like to play 2) the team across the divide has shown us they can win 23 regular season titles and 21 tourneys with a solid core of Montana recruits 3) I believe every team that Binford has coached to a regular season or tourney title game had some outstanding Montana players on it (???) 4) the reputation of Montana State has for excellence.......... all that being said we should be able to attract the #1 player in the state every year in my opinion. I love supporting the Lady Cats, I will be there this year, I hope next years team is wildly successful. Success brings success on the recruiting trail also...so if we can't get #1 now maybe with a few more conference titles under our belt we can.

I've said my piece and I'm out of here.



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Re: Cats WBB

Post by Ilikecats » Tue Apr 23, 2019 8:40 am

I’m starting to understand why successful coaches demand such high compensation packages. No matter what they accomplish they cant pleased their crazy fan base. It’s clear that winning isn’t enough. Not only do they have to win, but with a limited recruiting base, certain style of play and win all in state rivalry games. At least state pride doesn’t dictate that our head coaches must be born in Montana!



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Re: Cats WBB

Post by BozoneCat » Tue Apr 23, 2019 12:14 pm

arvcat2 wrote:
Mon Apr 22, 2019 6:28 pm
Catlady wrote:
Wed Apr 17, 2019 9:46 pm
Is this even a debate? I think the key is to win championships! I don’t care if the players are from Venus! I know it’s the off season, but can we get back to talking about putting together a winning basketball team? Binford is doing her job and has built a solid program. Montana, Wyoming, Mars........ lets find players that can contribute!
The in-state versus out-of-state debate is timeless so accept it. There are few if any Cat fans that believe that any Cat team should be exclusively all in-state kids. However, there seems to be a significant number of Cat fans that have no issue with our teams being predominately or entirely made up of out-of-state kids. A Montana State team should have a healthy representation of in-state athletes for the reason that BobcatDel posted today and is:
“I guess some would call it civic pride, hometown pride, state pride, country pride (ex. olympics wanting to see an American kid do well). It might be more prevalent than you think.”
Coach Choate (with BJ Robertson’s continual prodding) gets it, Coach Sprinkle has given lip service to it (time will tell) but I don’t believe Coach Binford possesses that viewpoint.
As Peyton Ferris is held up as the shining example of Binford’s in-state recruiting, can someone educate me on Peyton’s recruiting history? Was she highly sought after by the Griz (and/or other DI teams) and a recruiting coup or was she more of a lucky “get” to fill out a recruiting class?
I disagree completely. I think Coach Binford does get it. I feel many people overvalue Montana kids simply because of state pride. It literally would make zero sense to purposely choose an out-of-state kid over an in-state kid, if they are exactly the same value of player. Even a tenured coach like Coach Binford knows she is only one really bad season from getting fired, so I would say winning games is her top priority above all else. I have to think all the coaches try their best to get the kids they feel are the best players and fit their system, regardless of where they come from. It works well when one of those kids comes from close by, as it makes it easier and cheaper to recruit them, but at the end of the day you don't take a kid just because they are local. Especially in basketball, where they don't do partials and scholarships are limited (even more so for the men). Don't think for a second that either MSU or UM football teams would have near as many Montana kids on the roster if they couldn't do partials.


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Re: Cats WBB

Post by Helcat72 » Tue Apr 23, 2019 2:15 pm

I think Binford does a hell of a good job recruiting. She just doesn't have the connections that Schweyen/Lady Griz do in-state. She has found a "farm system" in the Minnesota AAU team which sort of parallels the Griz' stake in the state of Montana.

The only thing I hope is that she doesn't recruit a "last round" in-state player just to be a token Montanan on the team. What was she hoping to accomplish with Madison Shaide the last three years?

Could Shaide have earned a starting position if given more playing time? What about Kamden Hilborn?

Did she have a plan for Kamden when she recruited her? Or was she the best Montana player left after the Griz picked through the best Montana players?

Does she tell these girls what she wants them to do to become a regular? Or does she recruit them, give them a few garbage time minutes, and if they don't pour in 12 points in 3 minutes they sit on the end of the bench labeled "Token kid from Montana" for as long as it takes to get them discouraged enough to quit and move on if they actually want to play basketball in college.

She gives these girls a chance to prove themselves, but does she give them enough of a chance like she does with others like VanSickle and Martel.


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Re: Cats WBB

Post by aucat » Tue Apr 23, 2019 3:21 pm

BobcatDel wrote:
Mon Apr 22, 2019 5:09 pm
aucat wrote:
Sat Apr 20, 2019 8:28 pm
When Bear Bryant was coaching at Alabama winning NCs, almost every player on his roster was from the state of Alabama. This year's Alabama team that played for the NC had ZERO starters from the state of Alabama. ZERO out of 22 starting positions.

And not one single UA fan gives a crap as long as they are wearing the red jersey.

I feel the same way about MSU. If there is an outstanding player in state, go try to get them. But heck, just get good players no matter where they are from. The bigger your recruiting net, the better players you will get. That's a no brainer.

I really think Bad Bear is going to be a good player, and she's a MT kid.
Aucat…. Do you really want to stand by your comment on Alabama? Really…. Truly….ZERO Alabama kids? Do you expect us to believe that? Have you ever heard Choate say “win the state” in recruiting. Read on for an Alabama take.

Guess I could let you off the hook but the boldness of saying such got me to wondering because I have been reading that Quinnen Williams from the University of Alabama may be the #1 pick in this years NFL draft… some sports blogs say “maybe only in the top 3”…. Quinnen is 1st team Unanimous All-American, the Outland Trophy winner and plays DL. Guess I have never seen a backup DL get such accolades but maybe you know more than me. By the way, Quinnen is from Birmingham…. which is still located in Alabama the last I checked.

I had to send your note to some friends who I worked and golfed with for 20 years…..are Alabama grads and zealot Tide fans (they’re the kind of fans that make me as a Bobcat fan look like a piker). He called after seeing the note with various assundry comments wondering who the hell said that….. but was polite in his response below.

Quote: “We counted five starters last year from the state of Alabama. That is lower than a typical year but it is true that Saban recruits the whole country. And it is true that we have less Alabama recruits than during Bryant era. Our center last year was from Iowa for ex. This year, 2020 signing is reportedly more populated by Alabama high schoolers. Last year two QBs from the state. The five starters this year were:

Quinnen Williams DL
Mack Wilson MLB
Anfernee Jennings OLB
Henry Ruggs WR
Lester Cotton OL

The goal every year for Saban is to win the state recruiting. But he doesn't use many schollys on players that can't play in the SEC. Still, according to those that regularly cover Alabama’s recruiting efforts and those with knowledge of the Tide’s yearly recruiting board, the ability to land the top players in their home state is definitely a priority for Saban and his annually evolving staff.” End Quote.

I then checked and Wilson is from Montgomery, 71 tackles, second team All-American, Semifinalist for Butkus award. Ruggs is from Montgomery, 2nd in the SEC for receptions for touchdowns as a sophomore. Jennings is from Dadeville with 51 tackles (14 for loss) after suffering season ending knee surgery as a junior, Cotton is from Tuscaloosa and started 10 games at left guard after moving over from right guard previous year. Montgomery, Dadeville, and Tuscaloosa have not moved… yep still located in Alabama.

My contact also sent this newpaper clip.

Quote: “Alabama would definitely like to sign the top player in the state every single year,” said Chris Kirschner, SEC Country’s Alabama recruiting writer, “It normally targets the top player in the state every year and it’s just good perception-wise when Alabama prefers an in-state kid over a guy who lives on the other side of the country.”

Added Hank South of 247Sports.com’s BamaOnline: “Yeah I think it’s important. … We see the graphics Alabama’s (athletic department) puts out that say they signed the No. 1 class. You go look at the player’s bios (on the team website) and it shows their (recruiting) ratings. So I think it’s certainly important, and it’s branding, it goes to show what they’re doing (recruiting their home state).”

And while the Tide’s 2018 in-state recruiting efforts have lagged behind compared to previous years — with the expectation it’ll sign at most three Alabama prospects this class — Alabama is still on target to land the state’s top overall prospect, four-star Central-Phenix City receiver Justyn Ross.

That’s in addition to four-star cornerback Jalyn Armour-Davis of St. Paul’s in Mobile, the second-rated player in the state according to 247Sports and one of the 14 players to ink with the Tide during the December early signing period.

“It’s always important to get the top player (in your state),” said Andrew Bone of Rivals.com’s BamaInsider, “and they might not get 9-10-12 guys (from) in the state, but as long as they’re getting the top overall players, they’re pretty happy.”

Since 2005, the Crimson Tide has signed 247Sports’ No. 1 rated player in the state of Alabama 11 times in the last 13 years, including the last five straight years dating to 2012 when Hueytown quarterback Jameis Winston inked with Florida State. “Alabama does a good job of not only keeping the top guys in state, but keeping them away from Auburn,” Bone said. “You could argue this guy or that guy could be No. 1 (in the state), but in terms of the rankings, Alabama has consistently been able to land the top overall player in the state of Alabama, and I think they’re going to be able to do so this year.” End Quote
Bobcat Del, if I was running for political office, I would've just gone down the tubes. You did the research. Me, I heard a supposedly informed sports announcer make that comment I could be wrong, but I thought it was during the NC game. So I defer to your research. I thought the guys said no starters from Alabama. If that's wrong, my bad. But maybe you saw the interview with Mick Durham about Sprinkle's future. He did make the point "a sprinkling" of MT kids would help with attendance. The point I was trying to make, which perhaps I bungled by relying on what I heard a sportscaster say, is: I want our team to have the best players. Yes, I hate to see good players from the state go elsewhere. We need to get those.
I still say once they put on the MSU jersey they are MSU family. And by the way, I am not an Alabama fan, but I would bet you anything that the Bama fans feel the same way. Speaking of the state of Alabama, we just got through watching March Madness. When I watched the Auburn-Virginia game, if there was a starter from the state of Alabama, I missed it. I think they were all from Georgia. You think that mattered to the Auburn fans?
Go Cats! Wherever you are from!!



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Re: Cats WBB

Post by imacat » Tue Apr 23, 2019 7:16 pm

Ok, I have been trying to ignore this discussion but I am now going to chime in. Do some of you really think coaches allocate playing time based upon the state the player comes from? Or that any coach has a built in bias against playing in state players? Or that there are people playing pickup games at the Ridge who could run circles around scholarship players?

I think we should limit our coaching staff hires to only Montana high school coaches ... they are obviously much better evaluators of talent and Xs and Os ... no wait, high school coaches have been tainted ... we need to look to the fan base to find the ideal choices.



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Re: Cats WBB

Post by Hawks86 » Fri Apr 26, 2019 4:31 pm


The Montana State women's basketball program announced that three players will not be returning to the team. Freshmen Brynley Fitzgerald, Kamden Hilborn and Halle Wright are all leaving to explore other opportunities, head coach Tricia Binford said on Friday afternoon.


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Re: Cats WBB

Post by Ilikecats » Fri Apr 26, 2019 8:43 pm

That’s a surprise. 3 players! Wright is an interesting situation. I thought she had potential. The team will be fine next year, but this has impact on the team long term.



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Re: Cats WBB

Post by thefrank1 » Sat Apr 27, 2019 7:36 am

Yes it creates opportunities as well as losses. There available scholarships, hello portal.



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Re: Cats WBB

Post by Catlady » Sat Apr 27, 2019 8:09 am

Binford has got to run her program, but 3 from one season is a big number. We have a heavy Senior class next season, but after they leave we are light on experience.



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Re: Cats WBB

Post by Bobcat4Ever » Sun Apr 28, 2019 3:22 pm

We've had a young starter/significant contributor leave each of the past three seasons in Annika Lai, Laura Pranger, and now Halle Wright. That really makes it hard to build up the team, and maintain class balance. I feel badly for Trish — they work hard to recruit them, make a big investment and then they're gone. Every team has turnover, but having young players who have already become starters leave really hurts. That's where your future stars develop from, and star players win games. It's not like graduation where you can recruit against those losses.

Kudos to the students who have come in as freshmen and maintained their grades and have stayed on board! The right ‘Cats. #TRC



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Re: Cats WBB

Post by Ilikecats » Tue Apr 30, 2019 4:37 am

With all the changes with the team, how does the lineup look next year? We lost Wright, Hilborn and Fitzgerald. The team won’t be that deep unless Freshmen can contribute immediately. We knew that Shaide and Lundberg were graduating. Does losing Wright change this teams trajectory for next season?
Any ideas on a starting lineup? It was nice to have Wright as another competent ball handler in pressure situations and when Squires had the turnover bug. It seemed like Martell’s ball handling skills needed some improvement. I know Fallyn Freije joins the team next season. Will. The team have enough fire power to compete. Will Binford look at a graduate transfer to fill a spot?



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Re: Cats WBB

Post by Bobcat4Ever » Tue May 07, 2019 12:50 pm

Was anyone familiar with basketball player Alisha Breen of Choteau when she was in high school? Do you know if she garnered recruiting interest from MSU or UM? How did she get away? She just won the Little Sullivan award and it sounds like she had an awesome career at MSU-Billings.
As a senior, Breen broke the MSUB and Great Northwest Athletic Conference records for points scored in a single season with 791. She also topped the NCAA in minutes played, free throws made (226) and free throws attempted (259), all of which were GNAC single-season bests.
She's a 5-10" guard/forward, averaged 21.8 points per game, and got to the line more than anyone else in Division II.

http://406mtsports.com/406mtsports/fors ... 03f73.html



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Re: Cats WBB

Post by Ilikecats » Wed May 08, 2019 7:51 am

Not sure how those stats transfer to D1 basketball. I think you can tell the difference in talent levels when we play D2 teams. I know everyone wants to believe it’s the same, but it’s not close. Let’s congratulate her on a great career.



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Re: Cats WBB

Post by John K » Wed May 08, 2019 6:25 pm

Ilikecats wrote:
Wed May 08, 2019 7:51 am
Not sure how those stats transfer to D1 basketball. I think you can tell the difference in talent levels when we play D2 teams. I know everyone wants to believe it’s the same, but it’s not close. Let’s congratulate her on a great career.
Obviously the talent level is going to be lower in D-II as compared to D-I, but I just don't believe that a player like Breen wasn't good enough to be a solid player for MSU or UM. If she could post stats like that in the GNAC, I think she could have been a starter, or at least a top reserve for MSU or UM. On the men's side, I saw a couple of weeks ago that RayQuan Evans from Billings Skyview signed with Florida State after spending 2 years at North Idaho JC. I think this was discussed in another thread, but I don't believe either Montana school offered him either, and obviously he is good enough to play at the BSC level. I believe he signed with Rocky originally, before changing his mind and going to NIJC.



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Re: Cats WBB

Post by Hawks86 » Wed May 08, 2019 7:03 pm

John K wrote:
Wed May 08, 2019 6:25 pm
On the men's side, I saw a couple of weeks ago that RayQuan Evans from Billings Skyview signed with Florida State after spending 2 years at North Idaho JC. I think this was discussed in another thread, but I don't believe either Montana school offered him either, and obviously he is good enough to play at the BSC level. I believe he signed with Rocky originally, before changing his mind and going to NIJC.
https://montanasports.com/more-college/ ... -colleges/
Evans originally committed to play college basketball at Rocky Mountain College and had an opportunity at the University of Montana, but he was a non-academic qualifier, meaning he would have had to sit out a year.


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Re: Cats WBB

Post by John K » Wed May 08, 2019 7:54 pm

Hawks86 wrote:
Wed May 08, 2019 7:03 pm
John K wrote:
Wed May 08, 2019 6:25 pm
On the men's side, I saw a couple of weeks ago that RayQuan Evans from Billings Skyview signed with Florida State after spending 2 years at North Idaho JC. I think this was discussed in another thread, but I don't believe either Montana school offered him either, and obviously he is good enough to play at the BSC level. I believe he signed with Rocky originally, before changing his mind and going to NIJC.
https://montanasports.com/more-college/ ... -colleges/
Evans originally committed to play college basketball at Rocky Mountain College and had an opportunity at the University of Montana, but he was a non-academic qualifier, meaning he would have had to sit out a year.
Thanks for the additional information.



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Re: Cats WBB

Post by mslacatfan » Fri May 10, 2019 3:52 pm

Hawks86 wrote:
Wed May 08, 2019 7:03 pm
John K wrote:
Wed May 08, 2019 6:25 pm
On the men's side, I saw a couple of weeks ago that RayQuan Evans from Billings Skyview signed with Florida State after spending 2 years at North Idaho JC. I think this was discussed in another thread, but I don't believe either Montana school offered him either, and obviously he is good enough to play at the BSC level. I believe he signed with Rocky originally, before changing his mind and going to NIJC.
https://montanasports.com/more-college/ ... -colleges/
Evans originally committed to play college basketball at Rocky Mountain College and had an opportunity at the University of Montana, but he was a non-academic qualifier, meaning he would have had to sit out a year.

wow. Washington state, Gonzaga, florida state...…… did the bobcats offer him out of highschool?....


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Re: Cats WBB

Post by Hawks86 » Mon May 13, 2019 11:22 am



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Re: Cats WBB

Post by imacat » Mon May 13, 2019 2:34 pm

All the best Kamden!!!



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