Cats WBB

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Hawks86
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Re: Cats WBB

Post by Hawks86 » Wed Apr 17, 2019 4:49 pm

I don't remember people complaining in 2016-17 that there was only 2 MT kids on the roster.


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arvcat2
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Re: Cats WBB

Post by arvcat2 » Wed Apr 17, 2019 5:08 pm

Helcat72 wrote:
Wed Apr 17, 2019 4:44 pm
I think that the fact Binford is not from Montana and has some good contacts in Colorado, Minnesota, Idaho, and Washington tends to make the team base from outside Montana. She cannot recruit against Schweyen because of the Montana ties, and the history of Lady Griz basketball and Montana players. UM seems to have the better players locked up. Either that or Gonzaga takes them. But when she does get a Montana player, I think she needs to give them a fair chance to prove themselves before sitting them on the bench and forgetting about them. She has 15 schollies for god's sake!
I wonder how many of the Montana players on the Lady Griz were actively recruited by Binford?
Beyond the Lady Griz, there were at least 2 sisters from Montana playing for Idaho St and another girl playing at Sac State that I can think of this year. I don't know the recruiting history of these 3 girls and if Binford offered them but :shrug:



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Re: Cats WBB

Post by Cat Grad » Wed Apr 17, 2019 5:35 pm

arvcat2 wrote:
Wed Apr 17, 2019 5:08 pm
Helcat72 wrote:
Wed Apr 17, 2019 4:44 pm
I think that the fact Binford is not from Montana and has some good contacts in Colorado, Minnesota, Idaho, and Washington tends to make the team base from outside Montana. She cannot recruit against Schweyen because of the Montana ties, and the history of Lady Griz basketball and Montana players. UM seems to have the better players locked up. Either that or Gonzaga takes them. But when she does get a Montana player, I think she needs to give them a fair chance to prove themselves before sitting them on the bench and forgetting about them. She has 15 schollies for god's sake!
I wonder how many of the Montana players on the Lady Griz were actively recruited by Binford?
Beyond the Lady Griz, there were at least 2 sisters from Montana playing for Idaho St and another girl playing at Sac State that I can think of this year. I don't know the recruiting history of these 3 girls and if Binford offered them but :shrug:
Nevada had Terae Briggs from Pryor, Idaho had Lizzie and Natalie Klinker from Fairfield and a year ago Gonzaga had Jill Barta from Fairfield. So there's those kids.



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Re: Cats WBB

Post by arvcat2 » Wed Apr 17, 2019 7:26 pm

Hawks86 wrote:
Wed Apr 17, 2019 4:49 pm
I don't remember people complaining in 2016-17 that there was only 2 MT kids on the roster.
Having ONE Montana Class C superstar on that roster goes a long way towards burying Binford’s disregard for Montana athletes. Who was the other Montana girl on that team?



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Hawks86
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Re: Cats WBB

Post by Hawks86 » Wed Apr 17, 2019 7:41 pm

arvcat2 wrote:
Wed Apr 17, 2019 7:26 pm
Hawks86 wrote:
Wed Apr 17, 2019 4:49 pm
I don't remember people complaining in 2016-17 that there was only 2 MT kids on the roster.
Having ONE Montana Class C superstar on that roster goes a long way towards burying Binford’s disregard for Montana athletes. Who was the other Montana girl on that team?
Shaide.

Could you tell me how many of the MT girls that signed with other D1 schools got an offer from Binford? If she offered and they went elsewhere is that ignoring and showing disregard?


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arvcat2
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Re: Cats WBB

Post by arvcat2 » Wed Apr 17, 2019 8:05 pm

Hawks86 wrote:
Wed Apr 17, 2019 7:41 pm
arvcat2 wrote:
Wed Apr 17, 2019 7:26 pm
Hawks86 wrote:
Wed Apr 17, 2019 4:49 pm
I don't remember people complaining in 2016-17 that there was only 2 MT kids on the roster.
Having ONE Montana Class C superstar on that roster goes a long way towards burying Binford’s disregard for Montana athletes. Who was the other Montana girl on that team?
Shaide.

Could you tell me how many of the MT girls that signed with other D1 schools got an offer from Binford? If she offered and they went elsewhere is that ignoring and showing disregard?
You are on top of the twitterverse when it comes to recruiting so you tell me. Or perhaps Mslacat would chime in as he’s our VimSince03 of Bobcat basketball recruiting? I have no documentational evidence to support my assertions.



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Re: Cats WBB

Post by Catlady » Wed Apr 17, 2019 9:46 pm

Is this even a debate? I think the key is to win championships! I don’t care if the players are from Venus! I know it’s the off season, but can we get back to talking about putting together a winning basketball team? Binford is doing her job and has built a solid program. Montana, Wyoming, Mars........ lets find players that can contribute!



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Re: Cats WBB

Post by BobcatDel » Wed Apr 17, 2019 11:52 pm

Catlady wrote:
Wed Apr 17, 2019 9:46 pm
Is this even a debate? I think the key is to win championships! I don’t care if the players are from Venus! I know it’s the off season, but can we get back to talking about putting together a winning basketball team? Binford is doing her job and has built a solid program. Montana, Wyoming, Mars........ lets find players that can contribute!

I think everyone on this board would agree that the goal is to win championships.

But I also think if you asked most Montanans they would like to see attracting the best in-state talent to a public land grant school as an expectation. That doesn't mean half the kids are in-state recruits. But I for one can't believe that we don't have a couple key player contributors on the team every year from in-state programs. I agree with other poster that UM still has the legacy and contacts over MSU in recruiting in-state.

Winning championships a concern? Well UM and Mr. Selvig won "only" 21 Big Sky championships with a pretty good core of Montana kids. So not exactly the dumbest argument for recruiting the state harder.



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Re: Cats WBB

Post by BobcatDel » Thu Apr 18, 2019 12:06 am

BobcatDel wrote:
Wed Apr 17, 2019 11:52 pm
Catlady wrote:
Wed Apr 17, 2019 9:46 pm
Is this even a debate? I think the key is to win championships! I don’t care if the players are from Venus! I know it’s the off season, but can we get back to talking about putting together a winning basketball team? Binford is doing her job and has built a solid program. Montana, Wyoming, Mars........ lets find players that can contribute!

I think everyone on this board would agree that the goal is to win championships.

But I also think if you asked most Montanans they would like to see attracting the best in-state talent to a public land grant school as an expectation. That doesn't mean half the kids are in-state recruits. But I for one can't believe that we don't have a couple key player contributors on the team every year from in-state programs. I agree with other poster that UM still has the legacy and contacts over MSU in recruiting in-state.

Winning championships a concern? Well UM and Mr. Selvig won "only" 21 Big Sky championships with a pretty good core of Montana kids. So not exactly the dumbest argument for recruiting the state harder.
Just to be "technically" correct those were 21 "tournament" championships including the first 6 years in the MWAC and the balance were Big Sky. There were actually a couple more regular season championships making the total regular season championships at 23 (I think I counted right).



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Re: Cats WBB

Post by BozoneCat » Thu Apr 18, 2019 2:28 pm

Well, Coach Binford has been beating the Lady griz pretty regularly as of late, so I don't think there's much argument for wishing their players were at MSU.

I will never, ever, ever understand the constant obsession so many Montanans have with how many kids that play sports at their schools came from the state of Montana. Literally, I don't think anyone else in the entire country cares - they just care about wins and losses. It's really quite odd. Does anyone seriously think a coach, in this day and age where one really bad year can get you fired, would make any decision that they don't think will help their team win games?


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Re: Cats WBB

Post by Ilikecats » Thu Apr 18, 2019 5:28 pm

Great post, but it was just as bad when I lived in Utah. Wanted every player at every University in Utah to be LDS. You can’t even be the head coach at BYU unless you’re Mormon. I’m proud of the Cats and the culture they’re building on and off the court. Do I always agree with Binford ? Absolutely not, but I’m not going to argue with her for being out there recruiting the best players she can find! I think we’re headed in the right direction. I find it interesting that no one comments on the lack of diversity on the Lady Griz.........



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Re: Cats WBB

Post by BLACKnBLUEnGOLD » Thu Apr 18, 2019 5:29 pm

BozoneCat wrote:
Thu Apr 18, 2019 2:28 pm
Well, Coach Binford has been beating the Lady griz pretty regularly as of late, so I don't think there's much argument for wishing their players were at MSU.

I will never, ever, ever understand the constant obsession so many Montanans have with how many kids that play sports at their schools came from the state of Montana. Literally, I don't think anyone else in the entire country cares - they just care about wins and losses. It's really quite odd. Does anyone seriously think a coach, in this day and age where one really bad year can get you fired, would make any decision that they don't think will help their team win games?
Once they put on the jersey, they're all Bobcats. Binford's players have represented MSU very well. I have no complaints about the people she recruits.


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Re: Cats WBB

Post by BozoneCat » Fri Apr 19, 2019 1:06 pm

BLACKnBLUEnGOLD wrote:
Thu Apr 18, 2019 5:29 pm
BozoneCat wrote:
Thu Apr 18, 2019 2:28 pm
Well, Coach Binford has been beating the Lady griz pretty regularly as of late, so I don't think there's much argument for wishing their players were at MSU.

I will never, ever, ever understand the constant obsession so many Montanans have with how many kids that play sports at their schools came from the state of Montana. Literally, I don't think anyone else in the entire country cares - they just care about wins and losses. It's really quite odd. Does anyone seriously think a coach, in this day and age where one really bad year can get you fired, would make any decision that they don't think will help their team win games?
Once they put on the jersey, they're all Bobcats. Binford's players have represented MSU very well. I have no complaints about the people she recruits.
That's exactly how I see it.


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Re: Cats WBB

Post by aucat » Sat Apr 20, 2019 8:28 pm

When Bear Bryant was coaching at Alabama winning NCs, almost every player on his roster was from the state of Alabama. This year's Alabama team that played for the NC had ZERO starters from the state of Alabama. ZERO out of 22 starting positions.

And not one single UA fan gives a crap as long as they are wearing the red jersey.

I feel the same way about MSU. If there is an outstanding player in state, go try to get them. But heck, just get good players no matter where they are from. The bigger your recruiting net, the better players you will get. That's a no brainer.

I really think Bad Bear is going to be a good player, and she's a MT kid.



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Re: Cats WBB

Post by BelgradeBobcat » Sun Apr 21, 2019 9:50 am

Not a fan of cutting a player who is a good student and not a locker room cancer. It doesn't look good. But the cold hard fact here is that Binford has recruited over some of the players on last season's roster.

We didn't get the Montana Gatorade Player of the Year. Don't know if we recruited her or if we even had a chance. But we did get the Idaho GPOY-so not too bad considering Idaho's population is a bit larger than Montana's. Also we got Kola Bad Bear coming from Billings, who likely would have been in the running for GPOY had she not been injured. We also got the top 3A player (Montana class A sized schools) in Idaho in Madison Jackson. And in 2020 we're getting Ava Ranson from Boise who will in the running (favorite?) for the Idaho GPOY for next season. Also for 2020 Binford has signed two 6'3" forwards, both of whom, have range beyond the three point line.

This program is on it's way to some really promising seasons.



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Re: Cats WBB

Post by aucat » Sun Apr 21, 2019 2:11 pm

BelgradeBobcat wrote:
Sun Apr 21, 2019 9:50 am
Not a fan of cutting a player who is a good student and not a locker room cancer. It doesn't look good. But the cold hard fact here is that Binford has recruited over some of the players on last season's roster.

We didn't get the Montana Gatorade Player of the Year. Don't know if we recruited her or if we even had a chance. But we did get the Idaho GPOY-so not too bad considering Idaho's population is a bit larger than Montana's. Also we got Kola Bad Bear coming from Billings, who likely would have been in the running for GPOY had she not been injured. We also got the top 3A player (Montana class A sized schools) in Idaho in Madison Jackson. And in 2020 we're getting Ava Ranson from Boise who will in the running (favorite?) for the Idaho GPOY for next season. Also for 2020 Binford has signed two 6'3" forwards, both of whom, have range beyond the three point line.

This program is on it's way to some really promising seasons.

Belgrade, as you know, I get very frustrated with Binford, but I completely agree with you that the program is heading in the right direction



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Re: Cats WBB

Post by BobcatDel » Mon Apr 22, 2019 5:05 pm

BozoneCat wrote:
Thu Apr 18, 2019 2:28 pm
Well, Coach Binford has been beating the Lady griz pretty regularly as of late, so I don't think there's much argument for wishing their players were at MSU.

I will never, ever, ever understand the constant obsession so many Montanans have with how many kids that play sports at their schools came from the state of Montana. Literally, I don't think anyone else in the entire country cares - they just care about wins and losses. It's really quite odd. Does anyone seriously think a coach, in this day and age where one really bad year can get you fired, would make any decision that they don't think will help their team win games?
Interesting choice of words... "obsession". I guess some would call it civic pride, hometown pride, state pride, country pride (ex. olympics wanting to see an American kid do well). It might be more prevalent than you think. It isn't just Montana and Utah. I went to the Kansas State vs. Kansas game last year in Manhattan and sitting with the KSU fans they certainly knew that their all-world offensive lineman and the leading rusher in the Big-12 (who won the game for them) were Kansas boys. Occasionally when traveling home in the fall I will stop to see friends in Nebraska and watch a game with them and invariably you will hear a comment something like "yeah he's from up the road here near Carney, a good old corn-fed Nebraska farm kid". When I lived in Louisiana they worked hard to ensure all the "little tigers" grew and wanted to be LSU Tigers, also see the following reply to Aucat about Alabama.

But I get it. Not everyone shares that feeling... and thats OK.

And I bet we will never see Binford get on the local news and tell everyone she will stop recruiting the state. That could be a career limiting move... but thats just my opinion.



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Re: Cats WBB

Post by BobcatDel » Mon Apr 22, 2019 5:09 pm

aucat wrote:
Sat Apr 20, 2019 8:28 pm
When Bear Bryant was coaching at Alabama winning NCs, almost every player on his roster was from the state of Alabama. This year's Alabama team that played for the NC had ZERO starters from the state of Alabama. ZERO out of 22 starting positions.

And not one single UA fan gives a crap as long as they are wearing the red jersey.

I feel the same way about MSU. If there is an outstanding player in state, go try to get them. But heck, just get good players no matter where they are from. The bigger your recruiting net, the better players you will get. That's a no brainer.

I really think Bad Bear is going to be a good player, and she's a MT kid.
Aucat…. Do you really want to stand by your comment on Alabama? Really…. Truly….ZERO Alabama kids? Do you expect us to believe that? Have you ever heard Choate say “win the state” in recruiting. Read on for an Alabama take.

Guess I could let you off the hook but the boldness of saying such got me to wondering because I have been reading that Quinnen Williams from the University of Alabama may be the #1 pick in this years NFL draft… some sports blogs say “maybe only in the top 3”…. Quinnen is 1st team Unanimous All-American, the Outland Trophy winner and plays DL. Guess I have never seen a backup DL get such accolades but maybe you know more than me. By the way, Quinnen is from Birmingham…. which is still located in Alabama the last I checked.

I had to send your note to some friends who I worked and golfed with for 20 years…..are Alabama grads and zealot Tide fans (they’re the kind of fans that make me as a Bobcat fan look like a piker). He called after seeing the note with various assundry comments wondering who the hell said that….. but was polite in his response below.

Quote: “We counted five starters last year from the state of Alabama. That is lower than a typical year but it is true that Saban recruits the whole country. And it is true that we have less Alabama recruits than during Bryant era. Our center last year was from Iowa for ex. This year, 2020 signing is reportedly more populated by Alabama high schoolers. Last year two QBs from the state. The five starters this year were:

Quinnen Williams DL
Mack Wilson MLB
Anfernee Jennings OLB
Henry Ruggs WR
Lester Cotton OL

The goal every year for Saban is to win the state recruiting. But he doesn't use many schollys on players that can't play in the SEC. Still, according to those that regularly cover Alabama’s recruiting efforts and those with knowledge of the Tide’s yearly recruiting board, the ability to land the top players in their home state is definitely a priority for Saban and his annually evolving staff.” End Quote.

I then checked and Wilson is from Montgomery, 71 tackles, second team All-American, Semifinalist for Butkus award. Ruggs is from Montgomery, 2nd in the SEC for receptions for touchdowns as a sophomore. Jennings is from Dadeville with 51 tackles (14 for loss) after suffering season ending knee surgery as a junior, Cotton is from Tuscaloosa and started 10 games at left guard after moving over from right guard previous year. Montgomery, Dadeville, and Tuscaloosa have not moved… yep still located in Alabama.

My contact also sent this newpaper clip.

Quote: “Alabama would definitely like to sign the top player in the state every single year,” said Chris Kirschner, SEC Country’s Alabama recruiting writer, “It normally targets the top player in the state every year and it’s just good perception-wise when Alabama prefers an in-state kid over a guy who lives on the other side of the country.”

Added Hank South of 247Sports.com’s BamaOnline: “Yeah I think it’s important. … We see the graphics Alabama’s (athletic department) puts out that say they signed the No. 1 class. You go look at the player’s bios (on the team website) and it shows their (recruiting) ratings. So I think it’s certainly important, and it’s branding, it goes to show what they’re doing (recruiting their home state).”

And while the Tide’s 2018 in-state recruiting efforts have lagged behind compared to previous years — with the expectation it’ll sign at most three Alabama prospects this class — Alabama is still on target to land the state’s top overall prospect, four-star Central-Phenix City receiver Justyn Ross.

That’s in addition to four-star cornerback Jalyn Armour-Davis of St. Paul’s in Mobile, the second-rated player in the state according to 247Sports and one of the 14 players to ink with the Tide during the December early signing period.

“It’s always important to get the top player (in your state),” said Andrew Bone of Rivals.com’s BamaInsider, “and they might not get 9-10-12 guys (from) in the state, but as long as they’re getting the top overall players, they’re pretty happy.”

Since 2005, the Crimson Tide has signed 247Sports’ No. 1 rated player in the state of Alabama 11 times in the last 13 years, including the last five straight years dating to 2012 when Hueytown quarterback Jameis Winston inked with Florida State. “Alabama does a good job of not only keeping the top guys in state, but keeping them away from Auburn,” Bone said. “You could argue this guy or that guy could be No. 1 (in the state), but in terms of the rankings, Alabama has consistently been able to land the top overall player in the state of Alabama, and I think they’re going to be able to do so this year.” End Quote



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BozoneCat
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Re: Cats WBB

Post by BozoneCat » Mon Apr 22, 2019 6:12 pm

BobcatDel wrote:
Mon Apr 22, 2019 5:05 pm
BozoneCat wrote:
Thu Apr 18, 2019 2:28 pm
Well, Coach Binford has been beating the Lady griz pretty regularly as of late, so I don't think there's much argument for wishing their players were at MSU.

I will never, ever, ever understand the constant obsession so many Montanans have with how many kids that play sports at their schools came from the state of Montana. Literally, I don't think anyone else in the entire country cares - they just care about wins and losses. It's really quite odd. Does anyone seriously think a coach, in this day and age where one really bad year can get you fired, would make any decision that they don't think will help their team win games?
Interesting choice of words... "obsession". I guess some would call it civic pride, hometown pride, state pride, country pride (ex. olympics wanting to see an American kid do well). It might be more prevalent than you think. It isn't just Montana and Utah. I went to the Kansas State vs. Kansas game last year in Manhattan and sitting with the KSU fans they certainly knew that their all-world offensive lineman and the leading rusher in the Big-12 (who won the game for them) were Kansas boys. Occasionally when traveling home in the fall I will stop to see friends in Nebraska and watch a game with them and invariably you will hear a comment something like "yeah he's from up the road here near Carney, a good old corn-fed Nebraska farm kid". When I lived in Louisiana they worked hard to ensure all the "little tigers" grew and wanted to be LSU Tigers, also see the following reply to Aucat about Alabama.

But I get it. Not everyone shares that feeling... and thats OK.

And I bet we will never see Binford get on the local news and tell everyone she will stop recruiting the state. That could be a career limiting move... but thats just my opinion.
I kind of think we're talking about two slightly different things, albeit certainly related.

I never, ever want to see any MSU program NOT recruiting the state of Montana and putting a priority on keeping the best kids from in-state playing for the Bobcats, assuming their skills merit that. And I think most native Montanans do take a certain amount of pride in seeing a home-grown kid make it big - I saw plenty of that with Leighton Vanderesch here in Idaho last year. And I think people just about anywhere take a little more pride when a local boy or girl has success on a big stage, whether it's in sports, pop culture, politics, or whatever else.

What I'm talking about is that there seems to be a level of "taking it up a notch" for Montanans when looking at how many kids on the roster, for whatever sport, come from Montana. Almost everywhere else I've ever seen or been cares first and foremost about how successful the team is at winning games, everything else is a 2nd thought. Even in a small state like Idaho, I have literally never - not once - heard anyone here in Boise talking about how many Idaho kids play for BSU. They don't care. They are extra proud when an Idaho kid comes to BSU and has success, but it really doesn't matter if they're not winning games.

Now, Montana turns out some really excellent football players, so it is important that MSU recruits the state as hard as Choate does and puts a priority on starting from home and building outward. There are some good women's basketball players coming from Montana on a fairly regular basis, so that's important too. Men's basketball hasn't been turning out as many good players over the past decade as we saw come from Montana in the 80's and 90's, but it's still important to keep the few players who deserve to play D1 basketball coming to MSU. At the end of the day, though, you've got to win games. Fans won't continue to show up to watch a team full of Montana players lose games, and they won't NOT show up to watch a winning team that is mostly out of state kids.


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arvcat2
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Re: Cats WBB

Post by arvcat2 » Mon Apr 22, 2019 6:28 pm

Catlady wrote:
Wed Apr 17, 2019 9:46 pm
Is this even a debate? I think the key is to win championships! I don’t care if the players are from Venus! I know it’s the off season, but can we get back to talking about putting together a winning basketball team? Binford is doing her job and has built a solid program. Montana, Wyoming, Mars........ lets find players that can contribute!
The in-state versus out-of-state debate is timeless so accept it. There are few if any Cat fans that believe that any Cat team should be exclusively all in-state kids. However, there seems to be a significant number of Cat fans that have no issue with our teams being predominately or entirely made up of out-of-state kids. A Montana State team should have a healthy representation of in-state athletes for the reason that BobcatDel posted today and is:
“I guess some would call it civic pride, hometown pride, state pride, country pride (ex. olympics wanting to see an American kid do well). It might be more prevalent than you think.”
Coach Choate (with BJ Robertson’s continual prodding) gets it, Coach Sprinkle has given lip service to it (time will tell) but I don’t believe Coach Binford possesses that viewpoint.
As Peyton Ferris is held up as the shining example of Binford’s in-state recruiting, can someone educate me on Peyton’s recruiting history? Was she highly sought after by the Griz (and/or other DI teams) and a recruiting coup or was she more of a lucky “get” to fill out a recruiting class?



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