Coach Fish (Does he stay or go)

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homeytennis
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Re: Coach Fish (Does he stay or go)

Post by homeytennis » Wed Mar 20, 2019 10:16 pm

Sunny Smallwood is from Boise also.



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Cledus
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Re: Coach Fish (Does he stay or go)

Post by Cledus » Thu Mar 21, 2019 8:09 am

BelgradeBobcat wrote:
Wed Mar 20, 2019 9:51 pm
Colter_Nuanez wrote:
Wed Mar 20, 2019 5:31 pm
The other thing to consider is how much more expensive recruiting, bringing recruits to Bozeman and getting out to recruit, than almost anywhere else in the Big Sky. Weber State has SLC airport, EWU (and Gonzaga) has the Spokane airport, etc. How does Southern Utah do it? Well Todd Simon has a pipeline straight from Las Vegas, which is two hours away, because of his time both at Findlay Prep and UNLV. Also, I don't think SUU is the bar MSU fans are shooting for.

How does Montana do it? Well they recruit very specific areas — Seattle (where DeCuire is from) and Oakland, because DeCuire was at Cal — and fill the rest in with Montana kids (Kendal Manuel, Mack Anderson) and transfers (Jamar Akoh). And Montana gets significant private donations to boost its recruiting budget.

It does all start with the coach. But getting the right coach is going to take fixing some of the systematic issues — football mindset, practice situation, MSU basketball coaches offices, budget — first. Just like DeCuire, Coach Fish fundraised to back-fill most of the gaps, but it still was hard.

All that said, MSU's biggest downfall the last 13 seasons has been roster turnover. Which is why finding the right fit for Bozeman is so essential.
Interesting comments on the podcast about how Binford recruits. I wondered if her approach would work for the men's team. Nate Harris told me that they specifically recruit in areas that are a direct flight away-thus Seattle, Denver, and Minneapolis. But since then Binford has hit Boise hard-getting three signees out of there. It seemed a little strange to me-but not a big suprise since Binford went to school there. But after being in Boise for the Big Sky Tournament, it hit me that Boise is just a much bigger version of Bozeman in a lot of ways. Bozeman is more like Boise than Pocatello or Moscow for sure, so maybe those kids feel more comfortable in Bozeman-same for Choate's football recruits. I don't know what kind of boys basketball mecca Boise is, but the area is a lot bigger than one might think. Also, if the Big Sky tournament stays in Boise, Binford's team is going to have a lot friends and family of those kids to supplement the cheering section.
You can get direct flights from Bozeman to Dallas. You can't even get a direct flight to Boise.



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Re: Coach Fish (Does he stay or go)

Post by phantom » Thu Mar 21, 2019 8:53 am

Cataholic wrote:
Wed Mar 20, 2019 5:10 pm
Colter_Nuanez wrote:
Wed Mar 20, 2019 4:38 pm
And I guess the most concise way I could say what I think Montana State needs to do to become elite in basketball is this: it's about way more than just the coach. If you think you are going to fix the mediocrity that has defined MSU basketball for most of my life, you have to do more than just change the coach.
While it is more than just the coach, it all starts with the coach. He hand picks the players and assistants. He sets the tone. He molds the culture. All of that can happen in Bozeman. Other programs have found ways to win in much worse environments. Look at the humble beginnings of Gonzaga. I don’t envision Gonzaga type success, but becoming a dominant player in the Big Sky every year is an attainable goal. We just need the right leader for the program.
But picking the assistants and the players can be tied to money also. Assistant coaches salaries are low, especially when you consider Bozeman is a little pricey to live in. So, you are limiting the head coach somewhat in the pool he has to choose from. Money will also be tied to recruiting. I feel for the Montana State fans, because I know they want success and really seem to be good people. However, it seems like everyone wants to try to catch lightning in a bottle instead of building success. Gonzaga didn't catch lightning in a bottle. They built up their success over the years. That's why it's laughable when people talk about DeCuire as if he is some sort of genius. If he doesn't fall into Rorie, who he has a connection with, what is the difference between Montana and the rest of the league this year? Not saying DeCuire doesn't get credit for keeping things going at Montana, but if it's a mile race, he got a one-lap lead in taking over the Griz when he did.



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Re: Coach Fish (Does he stay or go)

Post by CatInNC is BACK » Thu Mar 21, 2019 10:27 am

Cataholic wrote:
Tue Mar 19, 2019 9:30 pm
There is no reason that MSU cannot be a good basketball program. Wofford just won the Southern Conference and was 29-4 this year. They average 1,600 attendance at their games. Arena only seats 3,400 and campus only has 1,700 undergrad students in a town of 37,000.

Bozeman is beautiful town, great campus, great quality of life, good size student body and a great education. It is hard to understand how we only average 2,400 attendance per game, but we have not been winning. I remember Thursday night games in the late 80’s that drew 6,000! And for the naysayers of the Brick, it has a big arena feel while many of the Big Sky arenas feel like high school gyms.

Lots of young rising coaches out there that can turn the tide. Costello can really make his mark by bringing in the right guy and invigorating the program.
Agreed completely on the Cats and how it used to be at the Brick. Wofford's a rough comparison, though. Greenville/Spartanburg population is well over 100k, upstate SC is well over 1 million and you're just over an hour from Charlotte, where a ton of their alums now live. Also, just a couple of hours from Atlanta. They're also SWIMMING in money in their athletic department. That little gym was opened in 2017 and is named after a certain old perv alum who just sold the Panthers for $2 billion and change. Additional funds from the fact that the Panthers still (until next year) hold camp there. Basically, ol' Jerry is their Dennis Washington.

They're also...well...in the Carolinas. College basketball down here is somewhat a different beast. True, they're in the lesser Carolina which is more football-heavy these days, but the state did pump out the likes of Kevin Garnett, Jermaine O'Neal, Ray Allen, Stanley Roberts and some dude named Zion Something-or-other who plays at some school up in Durham or something.

Which actually brings us to what I think is the best comparison...that damn dance school to the west. If they can find success, there is NO reason that same success (preferably greater) can't be found in Bozeman. You're talking literally the EXACT same pool of potential recruits, very similar towns, facilities that aren't light-years away from each other. Other than the emphasis of the actual education you receive (and the fact that MSU, as a university, is thriving, while UM is doing pretty much the opposite), it's two sides of the same coin.

Heck, I'm now convinced that MSU is actually in a BETTER position to build a winner than UM. You're 100% correct about finding "that guy", though...Costello just needs this to be his Travis DeCuirie moment.



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Re: Coach Fish (Does he stay or go)

Post by Grizaddict » Thu Mar 21, 2019 11:21 am

phantom wrote:
Thu Mar 21, 2019 8:53 am
Cataholic wrote:
Wed Mar 20, 2019 5:10 pm
Colter_Nuanez wrote:
Wed Mar 20, 2019 4:38 pm
And I guess the most concise way I could say what I think Montana State needs to do to become elite in basketball is this: it's about way more than just the coach. If you think you are going to fix the mediocrity that has defined MSU basketball for most of my life, you have to do more than just change the coach.
While it is more than just the coach, it all starts with the coach. He hand picks the players and assistants. He sets the tone. He molds the culture. All of that can happen in Bozeman. Other programs have found ways to win in much worse environments. Look at the humble beginnings of Gonzaga. I don’t envision Gonzaga type success, but becoming a dominant player in the Big Sky every year is an attainable goal. We just need the right leader for the program.
But picking the assistants and the players can be tied to money also. Assistant coaches salaries are low, especially when you consider Bozeman is a little pricey to live in. So, you are limiting the head coach somewhat in the pool he has to choose from. Money will also be tied to recruiting. I feel for the Montana State fans, because I know they want success and really seem to be good people. However, it seems like everyone wants to try to catch lightning in a bottle instead of building success. Gonzaga didn't catch lightning in a bottle. They built up their success over the years. That's why it's laughable when people talk about DeCuire as if he is some sort of genius. If he doesn't fall into Rorie, who he has a connection with, what is the difference between Montana and the rest of the league this year? Not saying DeCuire doesn't get credit for keeping things going at Montana, but if it's a mile race, he got a one-lap lead in taking over the Griz when he did.
Well he also found and developed Oguine, Akoh, Moorhead, Falls, Dorsey, Manuel, and took Mack Anderson right out of MSUs back yard. This team is far beyond just Rorie. He’s a huge piece of the puzzle but the team is deep and talented and it’s all from Decuire and his staff. If one guy could make a team then Hall would have had MSU winning championships.



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Re: Coach Fish (Does he stay or go)

Post by phantom » Thu Mar 21, 2019 11:32 am

Grizaddict wrote:
Thu Mar 21, 2019 11:21 am

Well he also found and developed Oguine, Akoh, Moorhead, Falls, Dorsey, Manuel, and took Mack Anderson right out of MSUs back yard. This team is far beyond just Rorie. He’s a huge piece of the puzzle but the team is deep and talented and it’s all from Decuire and his staff. If one guy could make a team then Hall would have had MSU winning championships.
As you said, he's a huge piece of the puzzle. Found and developed Akoh ... after two years of division 1 basketball already and had 26 starts. Ok. Even with adding a huge piece like Rorie, the Griz beat Montana State by 5 and 6. I didn't say DeCuire wasn't a solid coach, I'm saying to give him credit for making Montana what it is, is just ridiculous.



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Re: Coach Fish (Does he stay or go)

Post by Grizaddict » Thu Mar 21, 2019 12:32 pm

phantom wrote:
Thu Mar 21, 2019 11:32 am
Grizaddict wrote:
Thu Mar 21, 2019 11:21 am

Well he also found and developed Oguine, Akoh, Moorhead, Falls, Dorsey, Manuel, and took Mack Anderson right out of MSUs back yard. This team is far beyond just Rorie. He’s a huge piece of the puzzle but the team is deep and talented and it’s all from Decuire and his staff. If one guy could make a team then Hall would have had MSU winning championships.
As you said, he's a huge piece of the puzzle. Found and developed Akoh ... after two years of division 1 basketball already and had 26 starts. Ok. Even with adding a huge piece like Rorie, the Griz beat Montana State by 5 and 6. I didn't say DeCuire wasn't a solid coach, I'm saying to give him credit for making Montana what it is, is just ridiculous.
You point out the MSU wins by 5 and 6 this season. Haven’t the Griz beat MSU like 18 of last 19. Why just use this year? Also if Decuire isn’t hugely responsible for what Montana is right now, who or what is? Have you seen the class he has coming in this next year. It’s eye opening and recruiting gurus from California are in shock with some of the kids he landed. That’s all Decuire. Coaches recruit and they coach and they mentor and they make sure kids get their degrees. Decuire does that in spades. You’re selling him waaaaay short.

He lost arguably the best big man in the Big Sky in Akoh back on Feb 8th. From there all he does is employ basically an all guard line up, completely adjust the rotation, still wins a bunch of games down the stretch, and wind the conference and then wins the conference tourney championship. I don’t think any other coaches in the big sky for sure would’ve pulled that off. The guy has it.



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Re: Coach Fish (Does he stay or go)

Post by desmond1957 » Thu Mar 21, 2019 2:09 pm

I'd be the first to say much of the success the griz have in basketball is due to a string of excellent coaches dating back to at least Heathcote's days. BUT IN RECENT YEARS they have managed to recruit virtually every year a starter or top player to transfer from another school (pac 12,big sky etc) that becomes the key to their winning program. How do they do that? What do they offer that triggers established stars/starters to jump programs? And by the way don't blame Fish for not getting Howard or the Bozeman grad. Howard was NEVER coming due to the way his brother was treated by a former Cat coach and Anderson spent the summer being coached by the same coach who was fired from MSU.



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Re: Coach Fish (Does he stay or go)

Post by Grizaddict » Thu Mar 21, 2019 2:33 pm

desmond1957 wrote:
Thu Mar 21, 2019 2:09 pm
I'd be the first to say much of the success the griz have in basketball is due to a string of excellent coaches dating back to at least Heathcote's days. BUT IN RECENT YEARS they have managed to recruit virtually every year a starter or top player to transfer from another school (pac 12,big sky etc) that becomes the key to their winning program. How do they do that? What do they offer that triggers established stars/starters to jump programs? And by the way don't blame Fish for not getting Howard or the Bozeman grad. Howard was NEVER coming due to the way his brother was treated by a former Cat coach and Anderson spent the summer being coached by the same coach who was fired from MSU.
Exactly this, it goes far beyond just Rorie. I’m telling you guys it’s to the Decuire factor. He is on the rise and other programs are taking notice. When kids meet him they want to come play for him which is what leads to a lot of those transfers. It’s what leads to the incredible class he has coming in



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Re: Coach Fish (Does he stay or go)

Post by BelgradeBobcat » Thu Mar 21, 2019 3:55 pm

desmond1957 wrote:
Thu Mar 21, 2019 2:09 pm
And by the way don't blame Fish for not getting Howard or the Bozeman grad. Howard was NEVER coming due to the way his brother was treated by a former Cat coach and Anderson spent the summer being coached by the same coach who was fired from MSU.
Caleb Bellach also worked out with Brad Huse-so I don't think he's sending kids to Missoula. My understanding is that Mack Anderson has family ties to UM-I don't know. All I do know is that he's going to be dunking on our heads for the next three years. I don't know what Howard's story is either, but he was the GNAC freshman of the year and there are some very fine players in that league.
I know we won't win without getting more of our share of the best players in Montana-because we have NEVER won without some Montana kids. The new coach-whoever it may be needs to reestablish that in my opinion.



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Re: Coach Fish (Does he stay or go)

Post by autocat » Thu Mar 21, 2019 5:42 pm

Multiple choice question:

DeCurie will be gone in the next? A) two weeks
B) two months
C) two years
D) never leaving



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Re: Coach Fish (Does he stay or go)

Post by Grizaddict » Thu Mar 21, 2019 6:52 pm

autocat wrote:
Thu Mar 21, 2019 5:42 pm
Multiple choice question:

DeCurie will be gone in the next? A) two weeks
B) two months
C) two years
D) never leaving
There’s a great interview he just did with Jim Rome and they talked a little about the fact he’s going to be a wanted man by another program. He will definitely get some offers. I was very afraid that he would be done after this year but his answer in that interview was pretty intriguing, he said he has been dreaming of building the Griz to a winning championship caliber program for a while and now he feels like they are there and feels they continues to have an opportunity to win a lot and he wants to be a part of that. Not sure if that means he sticking around for a couple more years but I would be thrilled with that.



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Re: Coach Fish (Does he stay or go)

Post by phantom » Fri Mar 22, 2019 1:37 am

Grizaddict wrote:
Thu Mar 21, 2019 2:33 pm
desmond1957 wrote:
Thu Mar 21, 2019 2:09 pm
I'd be the first to say much of the success the griz have in basketball is due to a string of excellent coaches dating back to at least Heathcote's days. BUT IN RECENT YEARS they have managed to recruit virtually every year a starter or top player to transfer from another school (pac 12,big sky etc) that becomes the key to their winning program. How do they do that? What do they offer that triggers established stars/starters to jump programs? And by the way don't blame Fish for not getting Howard or the Bozeman grad. Howard was NEVER coming due to the way his brother was treated by a former Cat coach and Anderson spent the summer being coached by the same coach who was fired from MSU.
Exactly this, it goes far beyond just Rorie. I’m telling you guys it’s to the Decuire factor. He is on the rise and other programs are taking notice. When kids meet him they want to come play for him which is what leads to a lot of those transfers. It’s what leads to the incredible class he has coming in
The two coaches before Decuire went 200-110 combined. He’s hardly risen the program from the ashes



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Re: Coach Fish (Does he stay or go)

Post by John K » Fri Mar 22, 2019 7:39 am

phantom wrote:
Fri Mar 22, 2019 1:37 am
Grizaddict wrote:
Thu Mar 21, 2019 2:33 pm
desmond1957 wrote:
Thu Mar 21, 2019 2:09 pm
I'd be the first to say much of the success the griz have in basketball is due to a string of excellent coaches dating back to at least Heathcote's days. BUT IN RECENT YEARS they have managed to recruit virtually every year a starter or top player to transfer from another school (pac 12,big sky etc) that becomes the key to their winning program. How do they do that? What do they offer that triggers established stars/starters to jump programs? And by the way don't blame Fish for not getting Howard or the Bozeman grad. Howard was NEVER coming due to the way his brother was treated by a former Cat coach and Anderson spent the summer being coached by the same coach who was fired from MSU.
Exactly this, it goes far beyond just Rorie. I’m telling you guys it’s to the Decuire factor. He is on the rise and other programs are taking notice. When kids meet him they want to come play for him which is what leads to a lot of those transfers. It’s what leads to the incredible class he has coming in
The two coaches before Decuire went 200-110 combined. He’s hardly risen the program from the ashes
Was it Krysko and Tinkle that were immediately before him? Actually it goes back a lot further than that. UM and WSU have been the 2 dominant programs n the BSC for as long as I can remember, and I'm old enough for that to be about 45 years, back to the mid 70's. As someone else noted, it goes all the way back to the days of Jud Heathcoate, and players like Eric Hayes and Michael Ray Richardson. A good trivia questions would be who is the last/only BSC player to be drafted higher than Damian Lilliard? The answer is MRR, who was drafted 4th overall in 1978.

I'm not asking for or expecting MSU to reach even that level. It would just be nice if we could win a game in the tourney more than once every 10 years. I don't think that's too much to ask for/expect. We should be a program that consistently finishes in the top third (top 4 teams) of the BSC, and gets at least as far as the semi-finals in the tourney most years. with an appearance in the title game every few years, and winning the tourney occasionally. That's essentially where we were at for a brief period from 1995-1999, under Durham. During that 5 year span, we made the tourney every year, made the semi-finals 3 times, made it to the championship game twice, and won the title once. If we could produce results similar to that on a long term basis, I'd be ecstatic. I'm not asking/expecting to become the next Duke, or even Gonzaga, or even UM or WSU. But we have not even come close to meeting even those somewhat modest expectations during the past 20 years.



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Re: Coach Fish (Does he stay or go)

Post by imacat » Fri Mar 22, 2019 4:40 pm

Unless I have missed it, Fish has not said anything publicly. That is unusual.



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Re: Coach Fish (Does he stay or go)

Post by imacat » Fri Mar 22, 2019 10:14 pm

He talks about Brian Fish at about 3:40. I did not have a problem with the wording but found this response interesting.

https://herosports.com/college-basketba ... fired-ahah



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Re: Coach Fish (Does he stay or go)

Post by WalkOn79 » Mon Mar 25, 2019 11:37 am

Colter_Nuanez wrote:
Wed Mar 20, 2019 5:31 pm
Cataholic wrote:
Wed Mar 20, 2019 5:10 pm
Colter_Nuanez wrote:
Wed Mar 20, 2019 4:38 pm
And I guess the most concise way I could say what I think Montana State needs to do to become elite in basketball is this: it's about way more than just the coach. If you think you are going to fix the mediocrity that has defined MSU basketball for most of my life, you have to do more than just change the coach.
While it is more than just the coach, it all starts with the coach. He hand picks the players and assistants. He sets the tone. He molds the culture. All of that can happen in Bozeman. Other programs have found ways to win in much worse environments. Look at the humble beginnings of Gonzaga. I don’t envision Gonzaga type success, but becoming a dominant player in the Big Sky every year is an attainable goal. We just need the right leader for the program.
The other thing to consider is how much more expensive recruiting, bringing recruits to Bozeman and getting out to recruit, than almost anywhere else in the Big Sky. Weber State has SLC airport, EWU (and Gonzaga) has the Spokane airport, etc. How does Southern Utah do it? Well Todd Simon has a pipeline straight from Las Vegas, which is two hours away, because of his time both at Findlay Prep and UNLV. Also, I don't think SUU is the bar MSU fans are shooting for.

How does Montana do it? Well they recruit very specific areas — Seattle (where DeCuire is from) and Oakland, because DeCuire was at Cal — and fill the rest in with Montana kids (Kendal Manuel, Mack Anderson) and transfers (Jamar Akoh). And Montana gets significant private donations to boost its recruiting budget.

It does all start with the coach. But getting the right coach is going to take fixing some of the systematic issues — football mindset, practice situation, MSU basketball coaches offices, budget — first. Just like DeCuire, Coach Fish fundraised to back-fill most of the gaps, but it still was hard.

All that said, MSU's biggest downfall the last 13 seasons has been roster turnover. Which is why finding the right fit for Bozeman is so essential.
As someone else mentioned, we need to get the right guy in here to re-energize 6th Man, just for this reason.


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Re: Coach Fish (Does he stay or go)

Post by Hawks86 » Sat Jul 13, 2019 8:00 am



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Re: Coach Fish (Does he stay or go)

Post by mslacat » Sat Jul 13, 2019 12:43 pm

Hawks86 wrote:
Sat Jul 13, 2019 8:00 am
Good luck and I wish him all the best



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Re: Coach Fish (Does he stay or go)

Post by mslacatfan » Sat Jul 13, 2019 12:50 pm

mslacat wrote:
Sat Jul 13, 2019 12:43 pm
Hawks86 wrote:
Sat Jul 13, 2019 8:00 am
Good luck and I wish him all the best

+1


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