Cats vs. Sac State

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Catfanatic84
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Re: Cats vs. Sac State

Post by Catfanatic84 » Sun Jan 06, 2019 8:16 am

When you look at this roster, imho, it stacks up as one of the most talented the Cats have had....that brutal non-conference schedule may have prepped these guys for a good conference run. Let's go get the W at Idaho!



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Re: Cats vs. Sac State

Post by sacstateman » Sun Jan 06, 2019 11:04 am

technoCat wrote:
Sat Jan 05, 2019 6:24 pm
sacstateman wrote:
Sat Jan 05, 2019 5:14 pm
RobertCats wrote:
Sat Jan 05, 2019 5:11 pm
Cats shot 33-42 from the FT line, Sac State 8-11 :shock: :shock: :shock:
You guys won the free throw contest....oh, thats right, you shot 31 more than we did....Congratulations....
The Cats have been on the opposite side of a game like that, far too many times lately.

I didn't post the initial reference to the disparity in the free throws shot, I just agreed with RobertCat's post.....Please technoCat post ONE link to a box score where your opponent shot 31 more free throws than MSU did....You claim you have been on the other side far too many times lately it shouldn't be hard to find a single box score to prove your point....Every team gets a few home cooked calls and I agree that the call against Neumann was a bad call.....A disparity this large in free throws is more than a little home cooking though....I'll be waiting for that link or reference to a box score technoCat....



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Re: Cats vs. Sac State

Post by technoCat » Sun Jan 06, 2019 11:58 am

I'm actually glad you asked me to look. I didn't pay as much attention over the last year and a half and we actually have been going to the stripe more than other teams consistently. 31 is a lot. I wasn't try to say it wasn't. Just trying to convey my perception that the Cats often give a big advantage at the FT line. Which apparently isn't quite as true as I thought recently.


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Re: Cats vs. Sac State

Post by technoCat » Sun Jan 06, 2019 12:02 pm



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Re: Cats vs. Sac State

Post by phantom » Sun Jan 06, 2019 12:21 pm

sacstateman wrote:
Sun Jan 06, 2019 11:04 am
technoCat wrote:
Sat Jan 05, 2019 6:24 pm
sacstateman wrote:
Sat Jan 05, 2019 5:14 pm
RobertCats wrote:
Sat Jan 05, 2019 5:11 pm
Cats shot 33-42 from the FT line, Sac State 8-11 :shock: :shock: :shock:
You guys won the free throw contest....oh, thats right, you shot 31 more than we did....Congratulations....
The Cats have been on the opposite side of a game like that, far too many times lately.

I didn't post the initial reference to the disparity in the free throws shot, I just agreed with RobertCat's post.....Please technoCat post ONE link to a box score where your opponent shot 31 more free throws than MSU did....You claim you have been on the other side far too many times lately it shouldn't be hard to find a single box score to prove your point....Every team gets a few home cooked calls and I agree that the call against Neumann was a bad call.....A disparity this large in free throws is more than a little home cooking though....I'll be waiting for that link or reference to a box score technoCat
The free throw disparity actually had a lot more to do with how the two teams played as opposed to the crew or home cooking. Montana State attacked the basket throughout the game and was very active on the glass. Sac State shot 31 3’s. That is with an offense that hasn’t been prolific from the arc this year. In fact, I give the officials credit for calling the game and not trying to keep free throws or fouls even. If a team fouls more, there should be more fouls called. Kirby and Blevins were very active on the glass and drew a lot of fouls.
On the Neumann call, it was actually the right call, it’s just seldom called. It’s a point of emphasis this year to clean up the situations where kids get their arms tangled up as it can lead to tempers flaring. So, if a player “clamps down” on an opponents arm, it’s supposed to be called a flagrant foul as it’s deemed an intentional act. I thought that’s what happened, whether Sam realized he did it or not.



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Re: Cats vs. Sac State

Post by BelgradeBobcat » Sun Jan 06, 2019 3:56 pm

phantom wrote:
Sun Jan 06, 2019 12:21 pm

On the Neumann call, it was actually the right call, it’s just seldom called. It’s a point of emphasis this year to clean up the situations where kids get their arms tangled up as it can lead to tempers flaring. So, if a player “clamps down” on an opponents arm, it’s supposed to be called a flagrant foul as it’s deemed an intentional act. I thought that’s what happened, whether Sam realized he did it or not.
Oh I think Sam knew what he was doing. :wink: He is the most crafty, wiley player I've ever seen. He's like a short version of Kevin McHale-except he doesn't have that soft touch on his shot.



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Re: Cats vs. Sac State

Post by BelgradeBobcat » Sun Jan 06, 2019 4:09 pm




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Re: Cats vs. Sac State

Post by technoCat » Sun Jan 06, 2019 4:54 pm

Yeah there were a ton more examples of 15+ disparities that year.


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Re: Cats vs. Sac State

Post by sacstateman » Sun Jan 06, 2019 5:26 pm


If you're sore at that one (18 FT difference) then I guess I have a legitimate beef about a 31 FT difference.....



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Re: Cats vs. Sac State

Post by sacstateman » Sun Jan 06, 2019 5:47 pm

technoCat wrote:
Sun Jan 06, 2019 11:58 am
I'm actually glad you asked me to look. I didn't pay as much attention over the last year and a half and we actually have been going to the stripe more than other teams consistently. 31 is a lot. I wasn't try to say it wasn't. Just trying to convey my perception that the Cats often give a big advantage at the FT line. Which apparently isn't quite as true as I thought recently.
technoCat, I appreciate your research....As you can see, a 31 FT difference is VERY RARE....Another stat I looked at on your box scores besides FTs is PFs....your 1st game shows a 17 FT to 4 PFs difference....2nd games shows 11 FT to 4 PFs....3rd game shows 21 FT to 4 PFs....the 4th game shows the largest FT difference with 24 and the largest PF difference too with 9 PFS.....Last nights totals of 31 FTs and 16 PFs difference makes all your examples pale in comparison.....I have known our coach for 30 years (long before he was at Sac St) and I have never seen him kick the ball like he did last night after the buzzer.....He is an emotional coach but after the buzzer sounds, I have never seen him act out....Hey, they aren't going to replay the game and you guys will forever have the W in the standings....Good luck the rest of the season and we will be ready for you in March....Thanks for listening...BTW, 2 of our kids who fouled out last night had never fouled out of a college game in their careers...food for thought....



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Re: Cats vs. Sac State

Post by BelgradeBobcat » Sun Jan 06, 2019 6:13 pm

sacstateman wrote:
Sun Jan 06, 2019 5:26 pm
If you're sore at that one (18 FT difference) then I guess I have a legitimate beef about a 31 FT difference.....
You can have your beef. I don't know if it's legitimate or not. We'll probably pay for it for the next ten games. It's not like we're the griz or Weber State or something.



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Re: Cats vs. Sac State

Post by Helcat72 » Sun Jan 06, 2019 6:50 pm

The problem with the BS refs is that they probably will even the stats out in the following weeks due to the disparity.

How many games do we need to have a minus FT disparity before they forget about this game and consider us neutral again?

The other problem is that our "get even" game will most likely come against UM not Sac!


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Re: Cats vs. Sac State

Post by phantom » Sun Jan 06, 2019 8:20 pm

BelgradeBobcat wrote:
Sun Jan 06, 2019 3:56 pm
phantom wrote:
Sun Jan 06, 2019 12:21 pm

On the Neumann call, it was actually the right call, it’s just seldom called. It’s a point of emphasis this year to clean up the situations where kids get their arms tangled up as it can lead to tempers flaring. So, if a player “clamps down” on an opponents arm, it’s supposed to be called a flagrant foul as it’s deemed an intentional act. I thought that’s what happened, whether Sam realized he did it or not.
Oh I think Sam knew what he was doing. :wink: He is the most crafty, wiley player I've ever seen. He's like a short version of Kevin McHale-except he doesn't have that soft touch on his shot.
I don’t think he’s got the up and under move McHale did either. 🤣. I’m not sure it wasn’t just a reaction to the kid getting his arm over Sam’s. It actually was a really good call, just no one has seen it called. It’s supposed to be that way on post defense also.



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Re: Cats vs. Sac State

Post by kennethnoisewater » Mon Jan 07, 2019 1:59 pm

Blaming a game on the FT disparity is one of my biggest pet peeves in basketball. To me it's as amateur-ish as yelling "three in the key" 20 times a game. Sure it CAN be a factor, but it's as overrated a stat as the blocked shot IMO. Some teams guard more aggressively, some teams draw more fouls offensively. Sometimes players don't play with much discipline. I've seen it happen plenty of times when a team just underestimates an opponent and they're playing defense on their heels or biting on every ball fake or trying for an out-of-position rebound. I don't think the 2,000 fans in the cavernous Brick Breeden Fieldhouse influenced the officials. I doubt the officials just like Brian Fish more than an opposing coach. But I do believe if a coach is a prick to the officials (maybe the type that kicks a basketball after a game, I don't know), they're not going to get close calls as often.

I do believe officials sometimes make mistakes that influence games. But I've never seen that much of a disparity that didn't just mean one team was putting themselves in a position to foul more often. If that's not the case here, I'm sure the BSC will investigate and handle it. In that case, I'll eat crow. An officiating crew can't be that one-sided for 40 minutes for no reason and get away with it. I'll wait for the BSC's response to the game before I eat that crow though.


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Re: Cats vs. Sac State

Post by technoCat » Mon Jan 07, 2019 2:55 pm

kennethnoisewater wrote:
Mon Jan 07, 2019 1:59 pm
Blaming a game on the FT disparity is one of my biggest pet peeves in basketball. To me it's as amateur-ish as yelling "three in the key" 20 times a game. Sure it CAN be a factor, but it's as overrated a stat as the blocked shot IMO. Some teams guard more aggressively, some teams draw more fouls offensively. Sometimes players don't play with much discipline. I've seen it happen plenty of times when a team just underestimates an opponent and they're playing defense on their heels or biting on every ball fake or trying for an out-of-position rebound. I don't think the 2,000 fans in the cavernous Brick Breeden Fieldhouse influenced the officials. I doubt the officials just like Brian Fish more than an opposing coach. But I do believe if a coach is a prick to the officials (maybe the type that kicks a basketball after a game, I don't know), they're not going to get close calls as often.

I do believe officials sometimes make mistakes that influence games. But I've never seen that much of a disparity that didn't just mean one team was putting themselves in a position to foul more often. If that's not the case here, I'm sure the BSC will investigate and handle it. In that case, I'll eat crow. An officiating crew can't be that one-sided for 40 minutes for no reason and get away with it. I'll wait for the BSC's response to the game before I eat that crow though.
Agreed, the point I was trying to make earlier was for years the Cats were being out shot from the charity stripe every single game. Not a condemnation of the officials but a major weakness of our team. Good to see they have turned it around.


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Re: Cats vs. Sac State

Post by bobcatfan4life » Mon Jan 07, 2019 3:32 pm

My thoughts on the game...I watched on Pluto tv, not my favorite way to watch, but it is free and its been good so I can watch games from Arizona. With that said, things I liked about the Sac State game:

1. The guards, particularly Harold and Lassi, and Tyler some, are driving more and being more aggressive getting to the hoop. And with that being the case they do seem to be drawing more fouls. I was impressed with Lassi in this game. He was aggressive, and played with extra intensity going after loose balls on the floor and playing really hard. I like to see the improvement from him. Harold is great as well.
2. I have to say the redshirt year for Kirby was a great because he has really been a great presence for us. He gets rebounds, has gotten to the free throw line and one pretty well from the line as well. He seems stronger, although he is still a skinny kid.
3. SAM has to be one of my favorite players the Cats have had since Fish came. Yes, Tyler is the best, but SAM just plays with so much grit. He fights inside amongst the bigger guys and just is so fun to watch and is a team guy. He may not be meant to be a center but yet he always plays hard and has a different energy.
4. Tyler has been great! He is so humble and talented, and we as fans are lucky to have seen a talent such as him come through and stay all 4 years. It did seem last year he bulked up a lot and maybe has thinned out some this year. He is a fun player to watch.
5. I appreciated seeing Keljin continue to fight after struggling in the first half, none of his shots were falling. Yet he came back in made some great plays defensively, and some baskets ending up with a double double.
6. Ricketts the last couple of games has struggled mostly due to the foul trouble. I have heard positives about the two freshman Guilford and Quinlan.

Anyways I enjoyed this game, they continued to be aggressive and outrebounded another top rebounding team because of the effort.



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Re: Cats vs. Sac State

Post by ilovethecats » Mon Jan 07, 2019 3:34 pm

kennethnoisewater wrote:
Mon Jan 07, 2019 1:59 pm
Blaming a game on the FT disparity is one of my biggest pet peeves in basketball. To me it's as amateur-ish as yelling "three in the key" 20 times a game. Sure it CAN be a factor, but it's as overrated a stat as the blocked shot IMO. Some teams guard more aggressively, some teams draw more fouls offensively. Sometimes players don't play with much discipline. I've seen it happen plenty of times when a team just underestimates an opponent and they're playing defense on their heels or biting on every ball fake or trying for an out-of-position rebound. I don't think the 2,000 fans in the cavernous Brick Breeden Fieldhouse influenced the officials. I doubt the officials just like Brian Fish more than an opposing coach. But I do believe if a coach is a prick to the officials (maybe the type that kicks a basketball after a game, I don't know), they're not going to get close calls as often.

I do believe officials sometimes make mistakes that influence games. But I've never seen that much of a disparity that didn't just mean one team was putting themselves in a position to foul more often. If that's not the case here, I'm sure the BSC will investigate and handle it. In that case, I'll eat crow. An officiating crew can't be that one-sided for 40 minutes for no reason and get away with it. I'll wait for the BSC's response to the game before I eat that crow though.
Couldn't agree more. Especially in a low to mid-major like the big sky, and a team like Montana State, I can assure you that the refs didn't just wake up and decide they were going to call the game in favor of the Cats. I think people put WAY too much emphasis on officials and refs in sports in general...



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Re: Cats vs. Sac State

Post by WalkOn79 » Mon Jan 07, 2019 3:49 pm

BobcatDel wrote:
Sat Jan 05, 2019 10:19 pm
BelgradeBobcat wrote:
Sat Jan 05, 2019 7:40 pm
technoCat wrote:
Sat Jan 05, 2019 6:24 pm
The Cats have been on the opposite side of a game like that, far too many times lately.
When Lassi came in you could see the Sac State players mentally disrespecting him. One of their guards sized him up and thought there's no way this little skinny kid can guard me. He backed it into the paint and Lassi guarded him into an air ball. Then on offense, with all the attention of Hall and Frey, Lassi had an open path to the basket time and time again. He took it right at them for layups and fouls. Ricketts struggled on defense, but Nikkarinen had them figured out on both ends. He's the player of the weekend as far as I'm concerned.
Agree with much of what you said in your post.

Lassi also had several nice steals. I must admit I am one that felt Lassi should not even have made the roster this year based on last year performance. But I am eating crow....he has definitely picked up his game. As long as teams keep focusing on Hall and Frey, it will be nice to have Lassi able to make a contribution. The redshirt year for Kirby has definitely helped his contribution.
My thoughts as well. I was wondering why we signed Lassi last year. Not wondering any more! Doesn't shoot it like Harry (yet) but a really good defender and can take it to the rim. Devin is SOO much more active this year than as a true freshman. If he keeps developing and gaining strength, look out!!


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Re: Cats vs. Sac State

Post by WalkOn79 » Mon Jan 07, 2019 3:56 pm

phantom wrote:
Sun Jan 06, 2019 12:21 pm
sacstateman wrote:
Sun Jan 06, 2019 11:04 am
technoCat wrote:
Sat Jan 05, 2019 6:24 pm
sacstateman wrote:
Sat Jan 05, 2019 5:14 pm
RobertCats wrote:
Sat Jan 05, 2019 5:11 pm
Cats shot 33-42 from the FT line, Sac State 8-11 :shock: :shock: :shock:
You guys won the free throw contest....oh, thats right, you shot 31 more than we did....Congratulations....
The Cats have been on the opposite side of a game like that, far too many times lately.

I didn't post the initial reference to the disparity in the free throws shot, I just agreed with RobertCat's post.....Please technoCat post ONE link to a box score where your opponent shot 31 more free throws than MSU did....You claim you have been on the other side far too many times lately it shouldn't be hard to find a single box score to prove your point....Every team gets a few home cooked calls and I agree that the call against Neumann was a bad call.....A disparity this large in free throws is more than a little home cooking though....I'll be waiting for that link or reference to a box score technoCat
The free throw disparity actually had a lot more to do with how the two teams played as opposed to the crew or home cooking. Montana State attacked the basket throughout the game and was very active on the glass. Sac State shot 31 3’s. That is with an offense that hasn’t been prolific from the arc this year. In fact, I give the officials credit for calling the game and not trying to keep free throws or fouls even. If a team fouls more, there should be more fouls called. Kirby and Blevins were very active on the glass and drew a lot of fouls.
On the Neumann call, it was actually the right call, it’s just seldom called. It’s a point of emphasis this year to clean up the situations where kids get their arms tangled up as it can lead to tempers flaring. So, if a player “clamps down” on an opponents arm, it’s supposed to be called a flagrant foul as it’s deemed an intentional act. I thought that’s what happened, whether Sam realized he did it or not.
Agree on the Neumann call. Wondering why the other call on SAC wasn't a flagrant though when he took a bead on Devin's head with his elbow. Didn't look like he made much if any contact, but very dangerous nonetheless. In the high school ranks if you throw that elbow and don't make contact, it's a technical foul.


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Re: Cats vs. Sac State

Post by WalkOn79 » Mon Jan 07, 2019 4:00 pm

sacstateman wrote:
Sun Jan 06, 2019 5:47 pm
technoCat wrote:
Sun Jan 06, 2019 11:58 am
I'm actually glad you asked me to look. I didn't pay as much attention over the last year and a half and we actually have been going to the stripe more than other teams consistently. 31 is a lot. I wasn't try to say it wasn't. Just trying to convey my perception that the Cats often give a big advantage at the FT line. Which apparently isn't quite as true as I thought recently.
technoCat, I appreciate your research....As you can see, a 31 FT difference is VERY RARE....Another stat I looked at on your box scores besides FTs is PFs....your 1st game shows a 17 FT to 4 PFs difference....2nd games shows 11 FT to 4 PFs....3rd game shows 21 FT to 4 PFs....the 4th game shows the largest FT difference with 24 and the largest PF difference too with 9 PFS.....Last nights totals of 31 FTs and 16 PFs difference makes all your examples pale in comparison.....I have known our coach for 30 years (long before he was at Sac St) and I have never seen him kick the ball like he did last night after the buzzer.....He is an emotional coach but after the buzzer sounds, I have never seen him act out....Hey, they aren't going to replay the game and you guys will forever have the W in the standings....Good luck the rest of the season and we will be ready for you in March....Thanks for listening...BTW, 2 of our kids who fouled out last night had never fouled out of a college game in their careers...food for thought....
He was begging for a "T" but the official nearest to him wouldn't give him the satisfaction. I think that's why he kick the ball. He was being ignored at the end.


"The pride and tradition
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will not be entrusted to
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Cliff Hysell, RIP

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