What needs to be done to improve men's B-ball?

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Re: What needs to be done to improve men's B-ball?

Post by phantom » Thu Dec 20, 2018 11:04 am

aucat wrote:
Thu Dec 20, 2018 10:23 am
I posted a comment on the SDSU game with the women about the incredible excellence that SDSU has regarding their entire athletic program. Both their men and women are consistently very strong in hoops, and we already know about the excellence of their football program.

The fact that we hired Leon Costello away from SDSU gives me optimism for the future. Leon knows what success looks like and what it takes to achieve it. If SDSU can achieve this kind of consistent success, there is no reason why MSU cannot achieve it. I think we are on the way in football. We have had our ups and downs in women's hoops, but have not achieved a consistency. Our men's hoops program is frustrating to say the least. When you see programs like SDSU, and for that matter, UM achieve such outstanding success in basketball, you naturally think, then why the heck can't MSU do that?
While I get the natural urge to compare South Dakota State to MSU, there are some differences in the situations. SDSU was a top level D2 program before making the transition to D1. Scott Nagy had been coaching there for several years before the transition was made. So, they had a very strong basketball fan base, they had good facilities and they had an experienced head coach, who they allowed to make the transition. As I said after the Bobcats played Omaha, the Mavericks rode some lean times with Derrin Hansen, who oversaw their transition, they've moved into a great arena (driving by their hockey program) and their program is now on the rise.



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Re: What needs to be done to improve men's B-ball?

Post by BelgradeBobcat » Thu Dec 20, 2018 5:53 pm

Well according to this there's probably not much hope-no matter who our coach is: https://watchstadium.com/news/big-sky-b ... 1-08-2018/



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Re: What needs to be done to improve men's B-ball?

Post by Helcat72 » Thu Dec 20, 2018 10:24 pm

BelgradeBobcat wrote:
Thu Dec 20, 2018 5:53 pm
Well according to this there's probably not much hope-no matter who our coach is: https://watchstadium.com/news/big-sky-b ... 1-08-2018/
We're No. 6! Yay! Exactly where we usually end up in a "good" year....


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Re: What needs to be done to improve men's B-ball?

Post by ilovethecats » Fri Dec 21, 2018 1:09 am

BelgradeBobcat wrote:
Thu Dec 20, 2018 5:53 pm
Well according to this there's probably not much hope-no matter who our coach is: https://watchstadium.com/news/big-sky-b ... 1-08-2018/
Not gonna lie, higher than I’d expect us to be! So much work to be done it’s not even funny!

We really have TWO winning seasons in the last 18 years?! Did I read that correctly?

:sick:



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Re: What needs to be done to improve men's B-ball?

Post by Bobcat4Ever » Fri Dec 21, 2018 1:18 am

Seriously, here is a big one. I think our recruiting (as well as every other team in the Big Sky) is crippled by our live game streaming product.

I was looking for a women's basketball game to stream earlier this week, perhaps hoping to find a future opponent. Nothing I wanted was live so I went to replays. I ended up finding numerous NDSU, UND (now that they are Summit League in basketball), SDSU and USD games — teams that situationally and geographically are our peers in D-I. There were 190 games available, and only 1 that involved a Big Sky team — ironically our game against SFA because of their conference's affiliation. I then checked the conference listing. 29 out of 32 D-I conferences are using ESPN services (ESPN3 or ESPN+). Platforms that require a reasonable production level and don't hang, pixelate or turn green (at least for me). Of course the Big Sky is one of the three conferences that are on the outside looking in. But we do have PlutoTV and Eleven Sports.

So, these 29 conferences are getting worldwide exposure, from big screen TVs to uncountable mobile devices. All these games live, and then available on demand for a couple of weeks. But we do have PlutoTV and Eleven Sports.

And when the kid's families are helping them choose between their offers, they clearly know that they can join a team in 29 conferences and that family and friends can watch them play. But we do have PlutoTV and Eleven Sports.

I posed this exact issue and questions to Denise Thompson in the Big Sky offices several weeks ago — unanswered.

I don't know what ex-commissioner Williams was doing in this area, but we clearly made no strides in the last two years. We were pretty forward with watchbigsky.com at the time it started, but now we are still there — and the ship has sailed.

I can guess that new commissioner Wistrcill understands these matters, and their impact. He's been at Learfield. He's been the commissioner of the D-II Northern Sun conference. Four years ago they had better streaming than the Big Sky does now — I know as I watched a lot of NSIC games due to family connections.

The more I’ve thought about this, it appears to me that the Big Sky is seriously crippled by their streaming platform. Maybe I’ve missed something. But ESPN streaming is my go-to when I want NCAA basketball. And the Big Sky is not found there.



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Re: What needs to be done to improve men's B-ball?

Post by Ilikecats » Fri Dec 21, 2018 7:50 am

Bobcat4Ever wrote:
Fri Dec 21, 2018 1:18 am
Seriously, here is a big one. I think our recruiting (as well as every other team in the Big Sky) is crippled by our live game streaming product.

I was looking for a women's basketball game to stream earlier this week, perhaps hoping to find a future opponent. Nothing I wanted was live so I went to replays. I ended up finding numerous NDSU, UND (now that they are Summit League in basketball), SDSU and USD games — teams that situationally and geographically are our peers in D-I. There were 190 games available, and only 1 that involved a Big Sky team — ironically our game against SFA because of their conference's affiliation. I then checked the conference listing. 29 out of 32 D-I conferences are using ESPN services (ESPN3 or ESPN+). Platforms that require a reasonable production level and don't hang, pixelate or turn green (at least for me). Of course the Big Sky is one of the three conferences that are on the outside looking in. But we do have PlutoTV and Eleven Sports.

So, these 29 conferences are getting worldwide exposure, from big screen TVs to uncountable mobile devices. All these games live, and then available on demand for a couple of weeks. But we do have PlutoTV and Eleven Sports.

And when the kid's families are helping them choose between their offers, they clearly know that they can join a team in 29 conferences and that family and friends can watch them play. But we do have PlutoTV and Eleven Sports.

I posed this exact issue and questions to Denise Thompson in the Big Sky offices several weeks ago — unanswered.

I don't know what ex-commissioner Williams was doing in this area, but we clearly made no strides in the last two years. We were pretty forward with watchbigsky.com at the time it started, but now we are still there — and the ship has sailed.

I can guess that new commissioner Wistrcill understands these matters, and their impact. He's been at Learfield. He's been the commissioner of the D-II Northern Sun conference. Four years ago they had better streaming than the Big Sky does now — I know as I watched a lot of NSIC games due to family connections.

The more I’ve thought about this, it appears to me that the Big Sky is seriously crippled by their streaming platform. Maybe I’ve missed something. But ESPN streaming is my go-to when I want NCAA basketball. And the Big Sky is not found there.
Sounds crazy, but I agree. We’re second tier citizens in this area. Our streaming has improved, but not top notch.



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Re: What needs to be done to improve men's B-ball?

Post by TomCat88 » Sun Dec 23, 2018 8:50 am

phantom wrote:
Thu Dec 20, 2018 7:34 am
iaafan wrote:
Wed Dec 19, 2018 3:05 pm
Get the ball to your best shooter and encourage him to shoot. Hint hint. That’s Ricketts. He should be pumping up 15-20 per game. He’s 47% from 3, but only 59 attempts. Hall is 36% with 88 attempts. That’s 3 points per game MSU is throwing away by not recognizing who can shoot. Frey has 53 attempts at 30%. Give half those to Ricketts and that’s another 4 to the per game average. MSU throws away seven points due to not knowing who it’s best shooter is. Ricketts is also 11-11 FTs. He’d get to the line more if he shot more.

Big guys rebound, passers assist, shooters score...

It ain’t rocket science. But this is a common problem for basketball coaches at all levels. Ball hogs abound and people actually think 30% shooters are good because they have that ONE good game occasionally.
Where you are on the opponents scouting report makes a huge difference. Ricketts is shooting a good percentage and the great for him and the program. He's a 3-point specialist and he's doing that well. 11 FT's have no correlation to how many shots he takes, it's more indicative that he is a spot up shooter and doesn't attack the basket. Nothing wrong with that, he plays to his strengths. If you took Hall and Frey out of the lineup or made Ricketts the focus, his percentage would do down as teams would focus more on running him off the line and making him put the ball on the floor.
I agree with points both of you are making. I definitely don’t think you should take Hall and Frey out of the lineup. Having a deadeye three point shooter can really open up the floor for other players. Just like a great post opens up the perimeter. Optimally your best perimeter shooter also is your best shooter off the drive and off the cut and can dish out of any of those situations (drive, perimeter or cut). If you have a player like that, the whole team is instantly better. Hall is close, but his perimeter shooting and his penetration shooting are both a little low as is his ability to dish. He’s so close in each area. I think Ricketts could give Hall (and Frey) the space they need if he can dish out from the perimeter and not force shots. I believe that chemistry may develop over the next few games.


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Re: What needs to be done to improve men's B-ball?

Post by iaafan » Mon Dec 24, 2018 10:04 am

I never said Hall and Frey should be out of the lineup or that Ricketts should be the focus, but he should be a focal point. Ricketts is definitely a better shooter than anyone on the team. Yes, his percentage would go down if you run defenders at him, but it’d still be better than anyone else. He’s a weapon that can free
up space for everyone else on the court.

MSU has two of its three wins with Ricketts starting. He’s only started the last five games.



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Re: What needs to be done to improve men's B-ball?

Post by BelgradeBobcat » Mon Dec 24, 2018 10:47 am

TomCat88 wrote:
Sun Dec 23, 2018 8:50 am
I believe that chemistry may develop over the next few games.
Are we actually going to play any games?



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Re: What needs to be done to improve men's B-ball?

Post by phantom » Tue Dec 25, 2018 10:30 am

iaafan wrote:
Mon Dec 24, 2018 10:04 am
I never said Hall and Frey should be out of the lineup or that Ricketts should be the focus, but he should be a focal point. Ricketts is definitely a better shooter than anyone on the team. Yes, his percentage would go down if you run defenders at him, but it’d still be better than anyone else. He’s a weapon that can free
up space for everyone else on the court.

MSU has two of its three wins with Ricketts starting. He’s only started the last five games.
If he was guarded in the same manner that Tyler is guarded, I ‘d guarantee his percentage would be lower. That’s based off the fact that Tyler has shot 40% for his career being guarded like he is. Do the Bobcats need to find Ricketts? Absolutely. He will space the floor for Hall, Frey Blevins and if the defenses leave him, he will burn them by continuing to shoot a high percentage of open threes. It was the reason he was brought in and it was a good move to bring him in.



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Re: What needs to be done to improve men's B-ball?

Post by Ilikecats » Wed Dec 26, 2018 1:03 pm

Why are we beating around the bush?
The best thing that could happen to MSU MBB is a total reboot after this season! We need the energy of a complete new start and new coaching staff! The Fish era is effectively over and the remainder of this season needs to just be about playing for pride! I believe that Fish gave his all to transform MSU hoops but his vision just didn’t work for the program. We are not trending in the right direction and it’s only going to get worse when our best players graduate. MSU athletics is on an upswing except in one sport. Let’s say thanks, shake hands and find a hungry coach with tremendous internal and external communication skills to bring about the rebirth of MSU hoops! I sincerely think with our President and the leadership of Leon Costello we can start charting the path for the future. That is what we need to do to improve our program.



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Re: What needs to be done to improve men's B-ball?

Post by gtapp » Wed Dec 26, 2018 1:57 pm

Ilikecats wrote:
Wed Dec 26, 2018 1:03 pm
Why are we beating around the bush?
The best thing that could happen to MSU MBB is a total reboot after this season! We need the energy of a complete new start and new coaching staff! The Fish era is effectively over and the remainder of this season needs to just be about playing for pride! I believe that Fish gave his all to transform MSU hoops but his vision just didn’t work for the program. We are not trending in the right direction and it’s only going to get worse when our best players graduate. MSU athletics is on an upswing except in one sport. Let’s say thanks, shake hands and find a hungry coach with tremendous internal and external communication skills to bring about the rebirth of MSU hoops! I sincerely think with our President and the leadership of Leon Costello we can start charting the path for the future. That is what we need to do to improve our program.
I agree and I would hope for a young up and coming coach. Kind of a Matt Miller type.


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Re: What needs to be done to improve men's B-ball?

Post by Catlady » Wed Dec 26, 2018 3:53 pm

I respect being a homer and wanting kids from a certain state, region or country! The main thing we need to focus on is finding players that can win! I don’t really care if the kids are from Montana, part of the educational experience is being with teammates from everywhere and every background.

If we do have a new coach, I hope we don’t limit his ability to run the program by asking that he have 2 or 3 Montana kids on the roster. I look at Kentucky, Duke, Montana, Gonzaga and other strong programs and they recruit talent. It’s time to flush all the tribalistic crap and figure out how to build a winning program! As long as the kid has Montana State on his or her chest I’m going to cheer for them! Go Bobcats!



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Re: What needs to be done to improve men's B-ball?

Post by Cat Grad » Wed Dec 26, 2018 6:06 pm

Do like Nevada and Gonzaga did; leave the Big Sky Conference. Better officiating, better players would equate to better teams. (Of course just a couple of years ago Gonzage had two Montana kids on their lady basketball team but...).



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Re: What needs to be done to improve men's B-ball?

Post by BelgradeBobcat » Wed Dec 26, 2018 7:06 pm

Catlady wrote:
Wed Dec 26, 2018 3:53 pm
I respect being a homer and wanting kids from a certain state, region or country! The main thing we need to focus on is finding players that can win! I don’t really care if the kids are from Montana, part of the educational experience is being with teammates from everywhere and every background.

If we do have a new coach, I hope we don’t limit his ability to run the program by asking that he have 2 or 3 Montana kids on the roster. I look at Kentucky, Duke, Montana, Gonzaga and other strong programs and they recruit talent. It’s time to flush all the tribalistic crap and figure out how to build a winning program! As long as the kid has Montana State on his or her chest I’m going to cheer for them! Go Bobcats!
I don't disagree with any of that. And I don't think Fish, or any basketball coach we've had for that matter, has been encumbered by the administration to have a quota of Montana players. Mslacat has kept us informed enough on recruiting to know Fish and his staff have offered kids from all over Europe and the United States, and also courted potential D-1 transfers. But Montana gets the Pac-12 transfers. And all the top kids on our board went somewhere else until we're down on the board so far that we offer a full rides to a junior college players who don't even start at their junior college. At least with Montana kids we'd be their number one or number two choice instead being the school some kid settles on because 20 other D-1 schools passed over him. In football they talk about culture all the time and how important Montana kids are to the success of the team. Why is it different for basketball? Fish finally got a Montana kid on scholarship-and he got himself into the starting lineup. That's certainly a lot better than having your two top recruits leave the team before 2nd semester.

I like next year's class so far. Jubril Bello of Lamar CC is a promising looking big man. We've got the kid coming from Williston State JC who's supposed to be a good scorer. And we've got Caleb Bellach coming in as a promising local kid. The question is, will this team do enough in this upcoming conference season to keep Fish here to coach those guys next season? It's not looking too promising so far, but maybe they can turn it around.



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Re: What needs to be done to improve men's B-ball?

Post by iaafan » Thu Dec 27, 2018 8:02 am

phantom wrote:
Tue Dec 25, 2018 10:30 am
iaafan wrote:
Mon Dec 24, 2018 10:04 am
I never said Hall and Frey should be out of the lineup or that Ricketts should be the focus, but he should be a focal point. Ricketts is definitely a better shooter than anyone on the team. Yes, his percentage would go down if you run defenders at him, but it’d still be better than anyone else. He’s a weapon that can free
up space for everyone else on the court.

MSU has two of its three wins with Ricketts starting. He’s only started the last five games.
If he was guarded in the same manner that Tyler is guarded, I ‘d guarantee his percentage would be lower. That’s based off the fact that Tyler has shot 40% for his career being guarded like he is. Do the Bobcats need to find Ricketts? Absolutely. He will space the floor for Hall, Frey Blevins and if the defenses leave him, he will burn them by continuing to shoot a high percentage of open threes. It was the reason he was brought in and it was a good move to bring him in.
I never said that if Ricketts was guarded like Hall that his shooting percentage wouldn’t go down. It would. However he’s still the best pure shooter on the team and MSU needs to force teams to account for him. The compounding factor is when teams start accounting for Ricketts it allows for other players to get open. So it’s a win-win, no-brainer for MSU. It’s also the best chance they have of making this a successful season. It isn’t like MSU has a lot of shot makers. No one in the top 15 in FG%. Neither Hall nor Frey is top 15 in 3FG%.

MSU is last in scoring D and FG%D. I don’t see that changing. Better start hitting shots as that seems like something they’re capable of.



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Re: What needs to be done to improve men's B-ball?

Post by TomCat88 » Sun Dec 30, 2018 10:47 am

Not a whiff of either the men’s or women’s games in the Helena paper. Two front page full stories for both UM programs. If anyone gets the Butte or Billings papers, what do those look like?

Lack of media coverage isn’t helping, especially the women.


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Re: What needs to be done to improve men's B-ball?

Post by HelenaCat » Sun Dec 30, 2018 5:05 pm

TomCat88 wrote:
Sun Dec 30, 2018 10:47 am
Not a whiff of either the men’s or women’s games in the Helena paper. Two front page full stories for both UM programs. If anyone gets the Butte or Billings papers, what do those look like?

Lack of media coverage isn’t helping, especially the women.
Actually, the two Cat games had very short articles on page 7 of the IR sports section. The griz games were all over the front page. I saw it at my mother in law’s home. I quit subscribing to the IR about 5 years ago and this was one main reason.



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Re: What needs to be done to improve men's B-ball?

Post by TomCat88 » Sun Dec 30, 2018 9:18 pm

HelenaCat wrote:
Sun Dec 30, 2018 5:05 pm
TomCat88 wrote:
Sun Dec 30, 2018 10:47 am
Not a whiff of either the men’s or women’s games in the Helena paper. Two front page full stories for both UM programs. If anyone gets the Butte or Billings papers, what do those look like?

Lack of media coverage isn’t helping, especially the women.
Actually, the two Cat games had very short articles on page 7 of the IR sports section. The griz games were all over the front page. I saw it at my mother in law’s home. I quit subscribing to the IR about 5 years ago and this was one main reason.
Ahh, there it is. Right next to the horoscopes and Dr. Roach. Thanks. :lol:


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Re: What needs to be done to improve men's B-ball?

Post by BLACKnBLUEnGOLD » Sun Dec 30, 2018 10:17 pm

Recruiting, retention, and development of players. That sounds like a head coaching problem, but I can't claim to know for sure. Especially since the conference opener has me thinking that Fish may have finally put together a complete team.


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