MBB- Taking a step backwards

[mslacatfan]

I think it’s pretty clear this team has taken a step backwards this year..... which is pretty frustrating, disappointing and confusing...

They had a very promising year last year and returned the entire team, including arguably the best player in MSU history and freshman of the year Frey.... they also had 2 quality transfers join the team this year (Blevins and The other Frey), providing better depth......

This does not add up? The team is clearly worse this year, which does not make any sense to me?

Ya gotta point toward the coaches, right? I don’t know what else to say?

Like I said- pretty frustrating, disappointing and confusing...

[autocat]

C'mon, Cody living in Missoula! You always have all the answers.

Go watch the teams that hasn't lost a league game near your house then!

Step backwards, Seasons not over yet!

[aucat]

I'm as big a Cat fan as there is and I have season tix to both men and women,
but sometimes the truth hurts. Can't disagree that we are going backwards this
year while other programs are going forward. Very frustrating indeed.

[mslacatfan]

C'mon, Cody living in Missoula! You always have all the answers.

Go watch the teams that hasn't lost a league game near your house then!

Step backwards, Seasons not over yet!

Haha, what?

“I always have all the answers”..... not sure what that means? But I definitely do not. If anything, I started this thread looking for other people’s input/answers.

Thanks for the feedback.

[RickRund]

The answer to both the Men's and Ladies is "very simple"... It is between their ears. The solution??? Have no clue how to get in there and pull out the answer. Sure wish I did. This has to be eating at all of them...

Stop pressing!!! And I don't mean half of full court!!!

[BelgradeBobcat]

The answer to both the Men's and Ladies is "very simple"... It is between their ears. The solution??? Have no clue how to get in there and pull out the answer. Sure wish I did. This has to be eating at all of them...

Stop pressing!!! And I don't mean half of full court!!!

I agree.

We're undersized, under talented, and they play with no belief or confidence. I believe that lack of belief carries over to the free throw shooting. In short they're a bunch of head cases. Fitness is also a factor. Everybody on the team has been sick. That means they haven't been practicing as much and their fitness has taken a hit. That really shows up in the second half and especially the second half of the second game of the week.

We have 5 games left. 4 of those are against the top 4 teams in the league. Then we have ISU coming here. I've seen ISU play a few times. I think they're better than us. So we'll probably lose all 5. Maybe with the top 4 out of reach, a winning season out of reach, and pretty much every other goal out of reach, the team will just let it go, relax, and play. I'd like to think this team could be dangerous in the tournament...then I remember that we always lose in the tournament no matter the position or match up.

[rosco_cat]

I think it’s pretty clear this team has taken a step backwards this year..... which is pretty frustrating, disappointing and confusing...

They had a very promising year last year and returned the entire team, including arguably the best player in MSU history and freshman of the year Frey.... they also had 2 quality transfers join the team this year (Blevins and The other Frey), providing better depth......

This does not add up? The team is clearly worse this year, which does not make any sense to me?

Ya gotta point toward the coaches, right? I don’t know what else to say?

Like I said- pretty frustrating, disappointing and confusing...

Pretty typical answer. Team doesn't win, blame the coaches.

[phantom]

I think it’s pretty clear this team has taken a step backwards this year..... which is pretty frustrating, disappointing and confusing...

They had a very promising year last year and returned the entire team, including arguably the best player in MSU history and freshman of the year Frey.... they also had 2 quality transfers join the team this year (Blevins and The other Frey), providing better depth......

This does not add up? The team is clearly worse this year, which does not make any sense to me?

Ya gotta point toward the coaches, right? I don’t know what else to say?

Like I said- pretty frustrating, disappointing and confusing...

Pretty typical answer. Team doesn't win, blame the coaches.

Unfortunately, that is the easy go to answer across the sports spectrum in general. Regardless of what you say the problem with this team is, you can ultimately trace it back to the coaches if you want to. The team, as a whole does not shoot the ball very well. From a statistical standpoint, has anyone on the team shot the ball as well from the field as they did last year? Part of that is the competition (especially in conference where teams will study more film to find and exploit weakness) has made some adjustments to this team, which exploit the lack of shooting from people other than Harry and Tyler. From last year to this year, the players have not taken a step forward. If you want, you can blame the coaches for that lack of development.

[technoCat]

I think it’s pretty clear this team has taken a step backwards this year..... which is pretty frustrating, disappointing and confusing...

They had a very promising year last year and returned the entire team, including arguably the best player in MSU history and freshman of the year Frey.... they also had 2 quality transfers join the team this year (Blevins and The other Frey), providing better depth......

This does not add up? The team is clearly worse this year, which does not make any sense to me?

Ya gotta point toward the coaches, right? I don’t know what else to say?

Like I said- pretty frustrating, disappointing and confusing...

Pretty typical answer. Team doesn't win, blame the coaches.

Pretty typical rebuttal. Fans blaming coach, they should just shut up and realize its actually... What? What is the reason we are not as good this year? Players? Fans? The inability for a team at 45.6770° N, 111.0429° W to ever improve on a decent season due to a swirling nexus of anti-basketball energies? If you are going to come to the discussion with a dismissive attitude and no opinion of your own you might as well stay home...

[rosco_cat]

I think it’s pretty clear this team has taken a step backwards this year..... which is pretty frustrating, disappointing and confusing...

They had a very promising year last year and returned the entire team, including arguably the best player in MSU history and freshman of the year Frey.... they also had 2 quality transfers join the team this year (Blevins and The other Frey), providing better depth......

This does not add up? The team is clearly worse this year, which does not make any sense to me?

Ya gotta point toward the coaches, right? I don’t know what else to say?

Like I said- pretty frustrating, disappointing and confusing...

Pretty typical answer. Team doesn't win, blame the coaches.

Pretty typical rebuttal. Fans blaming coach, they should just shut up and realize its actually... What? What is the reason we are not as good this year? Players? Fans? The inability for a team at 45.6770° N, 111.0429° W to ever improve on a decent season due to a swirling nexus of anti-basketball energies? If you are going to come to the discussion with a dismissive attitude and no opinion of your own you might as well stay home...

7 point loss and shooting 17-31 on free throws. Coach really can't be held responsible for this......or can he?

[Colter_Nuanez]

I think it’s pretty clear this team has taken a step backwards this year..... which is pretty frustrating, disappointing and confusing...

They had a very promising year last year and returned the entire team, including arguably the best player in MSU history and freshman of the year Frey.... they also had 2 quality transfers join the team this year (Blevins and The other Frey), providing better depth......

This does not add up? The team is clearly worse this year, which does not make any sense to me?

Ya gotta point toward the coaches, right? I don’t know what else to say?

Like I said- pretty frustrating, disappointing and confusing...

Pretty typical answer. Team doesn't win, blame the coaches.

Pretty typical rebuttal. Fans blaming coach, they should just shut up and realize its actually... What? What is the reason we are not as good this year? Players? Fans? The inability for a team at 45.6770° N, 111.0429° W to ever improve on a decent season due to a swirling nexus of anti-basketball energies? If you are going to come to the discussion with a dismissive attitude and no opinion of your own you might as well stay home...

7 point loss and shooting 17-31 on free throws. Coach really can't be held responsible for this......or can he?

Harald Frey on the free throws and other misses:

“It’s tough not making what you are used to making,” Frey said. “We are all good basketball players. We all work on this everyday. That’s why we are here. We work on lay-ups, we work on 3-pointers, we work on free throws every day so of course it’s frustrating. It’s just tough and we’ve got to figure out how to bounce back from it.”

[technoCat]

I think it’s pretty clear this team has taken a step backwards this year..... which is pretty frustrating, disappointing and confusing...

They had a very promising year last year and returned the entire team, including arguably the best player in MSU history and freshman of the year Frey.... they also had 2 quality transfers join the team this year (Blevins and The other Frey), providing better depth......

This does not add up? The team is clearly worse this year, which does not make any sense to me?

Ya gotta point toward the coaches, right? I don’t know what else to say?

Like I said- pretty frustrating, disappointing and confusing...

Pretty typical answer. Team doesn't win, blame the coaches.

Pretty typical rebuttal. Fans blaming coach, they should just shut up and realize its actually... What? What is the reason we are not as good this year? Players? Fans? The inability for a team at 45.6770° N, 111.0429° W to ever improve on a decent season due to a swirling nexus of anti-basketball energies? If you are going to come to the discussion with a dismissive attitude and no opinion of your own you might as well stay home...

7 point loss and shooting 17-31 on free throws. Coach really can't be held responsible for this......or can he?

So every loss this year has been close and due to bad free throw shooting? This thread isn't about one game. Its about how this team has performed over the course of the year.

[rosco_cat]

Pretty typical rebuttal. Fans blaming coach, they should just shut up and realize its actually... What? What is the reason we are not as good this year? Players? Fans? The inability for a team at 45.6770° N, 111.0429° W to ever improve on a decent season due to a swirling nexus of anti-basketball energies? If you are going to come to the discussion with a dismissive attitude and no opinion of your own you might as well stay home...

Missed that in your previous post. It clearly explains the problem for the team not winning enough over the entire year and the coach being at fault. Thanks.

[technoCat]

Pretty typical rebuttal. Fans blaming coach, they should just shut up and realize its actually... What? What is the reason we are not as good this year? Players? Fans? The inability for a team at 45.6770° N, 111.0429° W to ever improve on a decent season due to a swirling nexus of anti-basketball energies? If you are going to come to the discussion with a dismissive attitude and no opinion of your own you might as well stay home...

Missed that in your previous post. It clearly explains the problem for the team not winning enough over the entire year and the coach being at fault. Thanks.

Lol you're a "I'm rubber, you're glue kind of guy" aren't you...

[phantom]

I think it’s pretty clear this team has taken a step backwards this year..... which is pretty frustrating, disappointing and confusing...

They had a very promising year last year and returned the entire team, including arguably the best player in MSU history and freshman of the year Frey.... they also had 2 quality transfers join the team this year (Blevins and The other Frey), providing better depth......

This does not add up? The team is clearly worse this year, which does not make any sense to me?

Ya gotta point toward the coaches, right? I don’t know what else to say?

Like I said- pretty frustrating, disappointing and confusing...

Pretty typical answer. Team doesn't win, blame the coaches.

Pretty typical rebuttal. Fans blaming coach, they should just shut up and realize its actually... What? What is the reason we are not as good this year? Players? Fans? The inability for a team at 45.6770° N, 111.0429° W to ever improve on a decent season due to a swirling nexus of anti-basketball energies? If you are going to come to the discussion with a dismissive attitude and no opinion of your own you might as well stay home...

7 point loss and shooting 17-31 on free throws. Coach really can't be held responsible for this......or can he?

So every loss this year has been close and due to bad free throw shooting? This thread isn't about one game. Its about how this team has performed over the course of the year.

Not every loss has been due to poor free throw shooting and missed layups, but this thread was started after a game when the team was prepared well and when they executed against the press, they controlled the game. Still, the thread was started that it must be coaching that is the problem.

[John K]

I think it’s pretty clear this team has taken a step backwards this year..... which is pretty frustrating, disappointing and confusing...

They had a very promising year last year and returned the entire team, including arguably the best player in MSU history and freshman of the year Frey.... they also had 2 quality transfers join the team this year (Blevins and The other Frey), providing better depth......

This does not add up? The team is clearly worse this year, which does not make any sense to me?

Ya gotta point toward the coaches, right? I don’t know what else to say?

Like I said- pretty frustrating, disappointing and confusing...

Pretty typical answer. Team doesn't win, blame the coaches.

Unfortunately, that is the easy go to answer across the sports spectrum in general. Regardless of what you say the problem with this team is, you can ultimately trace it back to the coaches if you want to. The team, as a whole does not shoot the ball very well. From a statistical standpoint, has anyone on the team shot the ball as well from the field as they did last year? Part of that is the competition (especially in conference where teams will study more film to find and exploit weakness) has made some adjustments to this team, which exploit the lack of shooting from people other than Harry and Tyler. From last year to this year, the players have not taken a step forward. If you want, you can blame the coaches for that lack of development.

If other teams can make adjustments to help them better exploit their opponents weaknesses, then why can't we? I'm not yet on the "fire Fish" bandwagon, as I believe he deserves at least another year, but this part of your argument would seem to be an indictment of Fish and his staff to some degree. Coaching is all about constantly making adjustments and counter adjustments, adapting to the strengths and weaknesses of your opponents, and what you said above seems to suggest that our coaching staff is not doing that as well as most of the other coaches in the BSC. Of course that would not be unique to Fish. Our basketball teams have generally fared worse in the 2nd half of conference play than in the 1st half, and that has been going on for many years, under several different coaches...Durham, Huse, and Fish. Although last year was an exception, when we started out 1-4, and went 10-3 the rest of the way.

[phantom]

I think it’s pretty clear this team has taken a step backwards this year..... which is pretty frustrating, disappointing and confusing...

They had a very promising year last year and returned the entire team, including arguably the best player in MSU history and freshman of the year Frey.... they also had 2 quality transfers join the team this year (Blevins and The other Frey), providing better depth......

This does not add up? The team is clearly worse this year, which does not make any sense to me?

Ya gotta point toward the coaches, right? I don’t know what else to say?

Like I said- pretty frustrating, disappointing and confusing...

Pretty typical answer. Team doesn't win, blame the coaches.

Unfortunately, that is the easy go to answer across the sports spectrum in general. Regardless of what you say the problem with this team is, you can ultimately trace it back to the coaches if you want to. The team, as a whole does not shoot the ball very well. From a statistical standpoint, has anyone on the team shot the ball as well from the field as they did last year? Part of that is the competition (especially in conference where teams will study more film to find and exploit weakness) has made some adjustments to this team, which exploit the lack of shooting from people other than Harry and Tyler. From last year to this year, the players have not taken a step forward. If you want, you can blame the coaches for that lack of development.

If other teams can make adjustments to help them better exploit their opponents weaknesses, then why can't we? I'm not yet on the "fire Fish" bandwagon, as I believe he deserves at least another year, but this part of your argument would seem to be an indictment of Fish and his staff to some degree. Coaching is all about constantly making adjustments and counter adjustments, adapting to the strengths and weaknesses of your opponents, and what you said above seems to suggest that our coaching staff is not doing that as well as most of the other coaches in the BSC. Of course that would not be unique to Fish. Our basketball teams have generally fared worse in the 2nd half of conference play than in the 1st half, and that has been going on for many years, under several different coaches...Durham, Huse, and Fish. Although last year was an exception, when we started out 1-4, and went 10-3 the rest of the way.

Sometimes there adjustments you'd like to make as a coach that you just don't have the personnel to make. From the first time MSU played Portland State to the second time, the coaches adjusted how they handled and attacked the Portland State press. Those adjustments worked, but the Bobcats missed too many layups and free throws. That is simply out of the coaches hands. The Bobcats have played much more zone this year ... an adjustment the coaches can make. Offensively, they simply don't have enough shooters on the roster. Too many guys that opponents don't have to guard tightly which has allowed defenses to make things more difficult for Tyler and Harry. There is no adjustment you can make to that other than fill those gaps in recruiting and try to make sure that it never happens again.

[grizzh8r]

I think it’s pretty clear this team has taken a step backwards this year..... which is pretty frustrating, disappointing and confusing...

They had a very promising year last year and returned the entire team, including arguably the best player in MSU history and freshman of the year Frey.... they also had 2 quality transfers join the team this year (Blevins and The other Frey), providing better depth......

This does not add up? The team is clearly worse this year, which does not make any sense to me?

Ya gotta point toward the coaches, right? I don’t know what else to say?

Like I said- pretty frustrating, disappointing and confusing...

Pretty typical answer. Team doesn't win, blame the coaches.

Unfortunately, that is the easy go to answer across the sports spectrum in general. Regardless of what you say the problem with this team is, you can ultimately trace it back to the coaches if you want to. The team, as a whole does not shoot the ball very well. From a statistical standpoint, has anyone on the team shot the ball as well from the field as they did last year? Part of that is the competition (especially in conference where teams will study more film to find and exploit weakness) has made some adjustments to this team, which exploit the lack of shooting from people other than Harry and Tyler. From last year to this year, the players have not taken a step forward. If you want, you can blame the coaches for that lack of development.

If other teams can make adjustments to help them better exploit their opponents weaknesses, then why can't we? I'm not yet on the "fire Fish" bandwagon, as I believe he deserves at least another year, but this part of your argument would seem to be an indictment of Fish and his staff to some degree. Coaching is all about constantly making adjustments and counter adjustments, adapting to the strengths and weaknesses of your opponents, and what you said above seems to suggest that our coaching staff is not doing that as well as most of the other coaches in the BSC. Of course that would not be unique to Fish. Our basketball teams have generally fared worse in the 2nd half of conference play than in the 1st half, and that has been going on for many years, under several different coaches...Durham, Huse, and Fish. Although last year was an exception, when we started out 1-4, and went 10-3 the rest of the way.

Sometimes there adjustments you'd like to make as a coach that you just don't have the personnel to make. From the first time MSU played Portland State to the second time, the coaches adjusted how they handled and attacked the Portland State press. Those adjustments worked, but the Bobcats missed too many layups and free throws. That is simply out of the coaches hands. The Bobcats have played much more zone this year ... an adjustment the coaches can make. Offensively, they simply don't have enough shooters on the roster. Too many guys that opponents don't have to guard tightly which has allowed defenses to make things more difficult for Tyler and Harry. There is no adjustment you can make to that other than fill those gaps in recruiting and try to make sure that it never happens again.

So using that logic, it is all on the coaches for not recruiting well enough. Glad to see we're all in agreement here...

[phantom]

I think it’s pretty clear this team has taken a step backwards this year..... which is pretty frustrating, disappointing and confusing...

They had a very promising year last year and returned the entire team, including arguably the best player in MSU history and freshman of the year Frey.... they also had 2 quality transfers join the team this year (Blevins and The other Frey), providing better depth......

This does not add up? The team is clearly worse this year, which does not make any sense to me?

Ya gotta point toward the coaches, right? I don’t know what else to say?

Like I said- pretty frustrating, disappointing and confusing...

Pretty typical answer. Team doesn't win, blame the coaches.

Unfortunately, that is the easy go to answer across the sports spectrum in general. Regardless of what you say the problem with this team is, you can ultimately trace it back to the coaches if you want to. The team, as a whole does not shoot the ball very well. From a statistical standpoint, has anyone on the team shot the ball as well from the field as they did last year? Part of that is the competition (especially in conference where teams will study more film to find and exploit weakness) has made some adjustments to this team, which exploit the lack of shooting from people other than Harry and Tyler. From last year to this year, the players have not taken a step forward. If you want, you can blame the coaches for that lack of development.

If other teams can make adjustments to help them better exploit their opponents weaknesses, then why can't we? I'm not yet on the "fire Fish" bandwagon, as I believe he deserves at least another year, but this part of your argument would seem to be an indictment of Fish and his staff to some degree. Coaching is all about constantly making adjustments and counter adjustments, adapting to the strengths and weaknesses of your opponents, and what you said above seems to suggest that our coaching staff is not doing that as well as most of the other coaches in the BSC. Of course that would not be unique to Fish. Our basketball teams have generally fared worse in the 2nd half of conference play than in the 1st half, and that has been going on for many years, under several different coaches...Durham, Huse, and Fish. Although last year was an exception, when we started out 1-4, and went 10-3 the rest of the way.

Sometimes there adjustments you'd like to make as a coach that you just don't have the personnel to make. From the first time MSU played Portland State to the second time, the coaches adjusted how they handled and attacked the Portland State press. Those adjustments worked, but the Bobcats missed too many layups and free throws. That is simply out of the coaches hands. The Bobcats have played much more zone this year ... an adjustment the coaches can make. Offensively, they simply don't have enough shooters on the roster. Too many guys that opponents don't have to guard tightly which has allowed defenses to make things more difficult for Tyler and Harry. There is no adjustment you can make to that other than fill those gaps in recruiting and try to make sure that it never happens again.

So using that logic, it is all on the coaches for not recruiting well enough. Glad to see we're all in agreement here...

As I said before, if you want to complain, you'll always be able to find things to complain about.

[John K]

I think it’s pretty clear this team has taken a step backwards this year..... which is pretty frustrating, disappointing and confusing...

They had a very promising year last year and returned the entire team, including arguably the best player in MSU history and freshman of the year Frey.... they also had 2 quality transfers join the team this year (Blevins and The other Frey), providing better depth......

This does not add up? The team is clearly worse this year, which does not make any sense to me?

Ya gotta point toward the coaches, right? I don’t know what else to say?

Like I said- pretty frustrating, disappointing and confusing...

Pretty typical answer. Team doesn't win, blame the coaches.

Unfortunately, that is the easy go to answer across the sports spectrum in general. Regardless of what you say the problem with this team is, you can ultimately trace it back to the coaches if you want to. The team, as a whole does not shoot the ball very well. From a statistical standpoint, has anyone on the team shot the ball as well from the field as they did last year? Part of that is the competition (especially in conference where teams will study more film to find and exploit weakness) has made some adjustments to this team, which exploit the lack of shooting from people other than Harry and Tyler. From last year to this year, the players have not taken a step forward. If you want, you can blame the coaches for that lack of development.

If other teams can make adjustments to help them better exploit their opponents weaknesses, then why can't we? I'm not yet on the "fire Fish" bandwagon, as I believe he deserves at least another year, but this part of your argument would seem to be an indictment of Fish and his staff to some degree. Coaching is all about constantly making adjustments and counter adjustments, adapting to the strengths and weaknesses of your opponents, and what you said above seems to suggest that our coaching staff is not doing that as well as most of the other coaches in the BSC. Of course that would not be unique to Fish. Our basketball teams have generally fared worse in the 2nd half of conference play than in the 1st half, and that has been going on for many years, under several different coaches...Durham, Huse, and Fish. Although last year was an exception, when we started out 1-4, and went 10-3 the rest of the way.

Sometimes there adjustments you'd like to make as a coach that you just don't have the personnel to make. From the first time MSU played Portland State to the second time, the coaches adjusted how they handled and attacked the Portland State press. Those adjustments worked, but the Bobcats missed too many layups and free throws. That is simply out of the coaches hands. The Bobcats have played much more zone this year ... an adjustment the coaches can make. Offensively, they simply don't have enough shooters on the roster. Too many guys that opponents don't have to guard tightly which has allowed defenses to make things more difficult for Tyler and Harry. There is no adjustment you can make to that other than fill those gaps in recruiting and try to make sure that it never happens again.

So using that logic, it is all on the coaches for not recruiting well enough. Glad to see we're all in agreement here...

As I said before, if you want to complain, you'll always be able to find things to complain about.

I don't know enough about the x's and o's of college hoops to even attempt to explain why we're having such a disappointing season. I just know that something has gone wrong. After going 11-7 in conference last year, and 10-3 in the final 13 games, and then starting out 4-0 this year, I was really optimistic about the season. But now we're 2-7 since that 4-0 start, and likely to finish no better than 6-12 or 7-11. 4 of our final 5 games are against the 4 best teams in the conference, while only 1 of our first 13 games was against those 4 top teams. 5 of our 6 conference wins have come against the 4 worst teams in the conference, and to add insult to injury, we lost to last place NAU at home...their only BSC win so far. We have clearly regressed badly since last season, with essentially the same roster. Didn't we return almost everyone from last year's team?. So what gives?