MBB vs Portland State

[phantom]

More likely, some people would have complained when he was averaging 8.0 points a game and 4 rebounds that he wasn't being utilized properly.

[Colter_Nuanez]

The only thing Edwards had in high school was height, not very skilled, and pretty soft. At 7'1" in Montana that's enough. Basically a hopeful project at Gonzaga and he was pretty much out of shape for his entire time there. Needed to find the weight room and drop a few lbs. to be a more effective player.

Looks like he benefited greatly from excellent coaching at Gonzaga to become a decent player. As mslacat noted, he probably wouldn't have been able to execute Fish's defense and would have had a fruitless and frustrating season here.

He can't execute Portland State's defense either but they play him 15 minutes a game and when he's in the game, dump him the ball and let him go to work. He's their change of pace weapon even though he plays pretty sparingly. Their press isn't nearly as effective but they get a punch scoring on the block.

[BelgradeBobcat]

More likely, some people would have complained when he was averaging 8.0 points a game and 4 rebounds that he wasn't being utilized properly.

If we were getting 8 points per game out of one of our centers I think all of Bobcat Nation would be thrilled.

[phantom]

More likely, some people would have complained when he was averaging 8.0 points a game and 4 rebounds that he wasn't being utilized properly.

If we were getting 8 points per game out of one of our centers I think all of Bobcat Nation would be thrilled.

Well, Konner Frey is averaging a basket less than that a game and people do nothing but complain, so we'll agree to disagree. I'm on record as saying I'd like to see the Bobcats get a 6'8 225 pound post next year.

[BelgradeBobcat]

Well, Konner Frey is averaging a basket less than that a game and people do nothing but complain

People are complaining because our team is losing...

[phantom]

Well, Konner Frey is averaging a basket less than that a game and people do nothing but complain

People are complaining because our team is losing...

Correct, so they wouldn't be thrilled that the post player was averaging 8 ppg, right? LOL

[BelgradeBobcat]

Correct, so they wouldn't be thrilled that the post player was averaging 8 ppg, right? LOL

Yeah you got me. If your boy Fish developed a basketball program that got more wins than losses people would be thrilled-whatever our post player averaged. It's been four seasons. Is he ever going to get around to getting that done?

[phantom]

Correct, so they wouldn't be thrilled that the post player was averaging 8 ppg, right? LOL

Yeah you got me. If your boy Fish developed a basketball program that got more wins than losses people would be thrilled-whatever our post player averaged. It's been four seasons. Is he ever going to get around to getting that done?

If you want to find things to complain about, you'll always be able to find things to complain about.

[grizzh8r]

Correct, so they wouldn't be thrilled that the post player was averaging 8 ppg, right? LOL

Yeah you got me. If your boy Fish developed a basketball program that got more wins than losses people would be thrilled-whatever our post player averaged. It's been four seasons. Is he ever going to get around to getting that done?

If you want to find things to complain about, you'll always be able to find things to complain about.

Yep, but when mediocre to terrible MSU basketball teams are all you've seen for the better part of 2 decades, you get jaded. It's EXTREMELY frustrating. Almost every team in the league has been to the NCAA's since 1996, including 2 teams that were Div. II schools the last time MSU was in the tournament.

To put it in context, I hadn't hit puberty the last time MSU made the NCAA tournament. I'm now balding and have a 2-year old son of my own. That long of a drought is utterly inexcusable, considering MSU's stature as one of the flagship programs of the Big Sky.

I really hope Tyler stays one more season and Fish gets that elusive 6'8" athletic post JC transfer others have alluded to in this thread, and win the regular season title or BSC tourney title. If not, he better pack his bags.

[msu_agfan]

Correct, so they wouldn't be thrilled that the post player was averaging 8 ppg, right? LOL

Yeah you got me. If your boy Fish developed a basketball program that got more wins than losses people would be thrilled-whatever our post player averaged. It's been four seasons. Is he ever going to get around to getting that done?

If you want to find things to complain about, you'll always be able to find things to complain about.

Yep, but when mediocre to terrible MSU basketball teams are all you've seen for the better part of 2 decades, you get jaded. It's EXTREMELY frustrating. Almost every team in the league has been to the NCAA's since 1996, including 2 teams that were Div. II schools the last time MSU was in the tournament.

To put it in context, I hadn't hit puberty the last time MSU made the NCAA tournament. I'm now balding and have a 2-year old son of my own. That long of a drought is utterly inexcusable, considering MSU's stature as one of the flagship programs of the Big Sky.

I really hope Tyler stays one more season and Fish gets that elusive 6'8" athletic post JC transfer others have alluded to in this thread, and win the regular season title or BSC tourney title. If not, he better pack his bags.

I would just be happy to see us in the top 4 of the conference.

[ilovethecats]

Really looking forward to what phantom or anyone else can tell us why fish is so great and why we should all be so happy with how this team is playing. We heard a lot earlier so I can only assume there is great stuff within this program that my unsupportive mind is just unable to comprehend....

Each year I’m dumb enough to think this year will be different.

No, you're right. Fish did a miserable job of making free throws and layups today.

he didn't shoot any. just like he doesn't rebound. or play defense. or take care of the ball. obviously a coach doesn't play. does that mean they should never be held responsible for what we see on the court? this doesn't make any sense...

let's say i agree. this team is rolling along very nicely, but this ONE game we lost was because of missed shots and that certainly can't be blamed on the coach. everything is fine and dandy.

except that it's not. all i saw is a team that is already under-performing just found yet another way to lose a game. if it's not shooting it's turnovers. if it's not turnovers it's rebounding. if it's not rebounding it's defense. at some point, one has to look at the big picture and the man in charge has to have at least a little responisibility right?

you are the one who started the "perception vs reality" thread. well, no matter how you want to perceive this team and how they are playing and how they are coached....the REALITY is we are in the bottom half of the conference in nearly every stat you can think of and are barely maintaining being a middle-of-the-pack team in this conference. like you said, if you want to be negative you can find anything to be negative about. i think the same can be said about apologizing for the leadership of this team. if you insist on believing the coaching of this team isn't an issue, you can always point to guys missing free throws and layups to back this up.

i prefer to look at the entire body of work. this team has issues. we're not getting better. we're getting worse. fair or unfair, this falls on the coach. you are what your record says you are. you are what your stats say you are. in my opinion fish's seat couldn't be hotter right now.

[phantom]

Really looking forward to what phantom or anyone else can tell us why fish is so great and why we should all be so happy with how this team is playing. We heard a lot earlier so I can only assume there is great stuff within this program that my unsupportive mind is just unable to comprehend....

Each year I’m dumb enough to think this year will be different.

No, you're right. Fish did a miserable job of making free throws and layups today.

he didn't shoot any. just like he doesn't rebound. or play defense. or take care of the ball. obviously a coach doesn't play. does that mean they should never be held responsible for what we see on the court? this doesn't make any sense...

let's say i agree. this team is rolling along very nicely, but this ONE game we lost was because of missed shots and that certainly can't be blamed on the coach. everything is fine and dandy.

except that it's not. all i saw is a team that is already under-performing just found yet another way to lose a game. if it's not shooting it's turnovers. if it's not turnovers it's rebounding. if it's not rebounding it's defense. at some point, one has to look at the big picture and the man in charge has to have at least a little responisibility right?

you are the one who started the "perception vs reality" thread. well, no matter how you want to perceive this team and how they are playing and how they are coached....the REALITY is we are in the bottom half of the conference in nearly every stat you can think of and are barely maintaining being a middle-of-the-pack team in this conference. like you said, if you want to be negative you can find anything to be negative about. i think the same can be said about apologizing for the leadership of this team. if you insist on believing the coaching of this team isn't an issue, you can always point to guys missing free throws and layups to back this up.

i prefer to look at the entire body of work. this team has issues. we're not getting better. we're getting worse. fair or unfair, this falls on the coach. you are what your record says you are. you are what your stats say you are. in my opinion fish's seat couldn't be hotter right now.

I'll agree with you that at the end of the day, everything is the responsibility of the head coach. Ultimately, he's the one that constructs the roster. However, to say his say couldn't be hotter the first season where they don't improve on their record is silly. At the end of the day, I hope fan base negativity and people clamoring for a change doesn't affect recruiting.

[ilovethecats]

I'll agree with you that at the end of the day, everything is the responsibility of the head coach. Ultimately, he's the one that constructs the roster. However, to say his say couldn't be hotter the first season where they don't improve on their record is silly. At the end of the day, I hope fan base negativity and people clamoring for a change doesn't affect recruiting.

again, my comments are looking at the total body of work. and you'll be right, he won't be fired this season, largely because this is the first year the team didn't improve. and i'm ok with that. i really am not trying to be a guy who just bashes the head coach and insists that every single negative aspect of the program is his fault and his fault alone. that isn't my intent but i am very frustrated.

obviously i hope that recruiting isn't impacted negatively as well. but if it is, i have to believe that it will be due to what is going on with the program right now, and not because a fan on a message board is pissed with the state of the program. in short...if players aren'y coming here, i don't think myself and other fans are to blame, but perhaps it is the people actually involved in the program.

sorry for coming across as pissy to you earlier. i truly do appreciate your takes on the program and it's clear you follow hoops which i love. wasn't try to make it personal towards you. we just disagree on some things which is just fine. thanks!

[BelgradeBobcat]

Negative fans still care. Fan base negativity isn't the problem. Increasing fan base apathy is. If ticket sales fall off a cliff Costello will have to make a change. The numbers were starting to come up, but this season's collapse is putting off a lot of people-who are not going to go anymore.

[phantom]

I'll agree with you that at the end of the day, everything is the responsibility of the head coach. Ultimately, he's the one that constructs the roster. However, to say his say couldn't be hotter the first season where they don't improve on their record is silly. At the end of the day, I hope fan base negativity and people clamoring for a change doesn't affect recruiting.

again, my comments are looking at the total body of work. and you'll be right, he won't be fired this season, largely because this is the first year the team didn't improve. and i'm ok with that. i really am not trying to be a guy who just bashes the head coach and insists that every single negative aspect of the program is his fault and his fault alone. that isn't my intent but i am very frustrated.

obviously i hope that recruiting isn't impacted negatively as well. but if it is, i have to believe that it will be due to what is going on with the program right now, and not because a fan on a message board is pissed with the state of the program. in short...if players aren'y coming here, i don't think myself and other fans are to blame, but perhaps it is the people actually involved in the program.

sorry for coming across as pissy to you earlier. i truly do appreciate your takes on the program and it's clear you follow hoops which i love. wasn't try to make it personal towards you. we just disagree on some things which is just fine. thanks!

No worried, I didn't take it personally at all. I try my best not to get snarky, but sometimes it comes out. Obviously, I support Fish, but that doesn't mean I think he should never be held accountable ... it just means I have confidence that he will do what he can to give his team a chance to win this year and fix some of the fundamental flaws on the roster for next year. Now, if the shooters he brings in don't perform and if he brings a big in and that doesn't pan out, then the argument comes in question whether he can identify and get the right guys.
Where I think the negativity can affect recruiting is when recruits, or worse, the coaches of recruits stumble upon a board like this, it could make it look like the situation is even worse than it is and can affect how much the coach recommends to a player to pursue Montana State.