Selvig and Montana players

BelgradeBobcat · Post by **BelgradeBobcat** » Tue Jan 17, 2017 7:36 pm

http://billingsgazette.com/sports/colle ... ign=LEEDCC+

Pretty interesting article about one of Selvig's secrets to his success.

Now for the blue and gold perspective: Have we just given up on in state kids? The men's basketball team has two walk-ons from Montana. Fish missed out on Bobby Howard's little brother-who decided to go to EWU. I haven't heard that he's given any other in state players much interest. Meanwhile 4 junior college signees from last season are no longer with the team. Seems to me that maybe taking a chance on an in state kid, maybe giving them a red shirt would bear more fruit than the JC route.

On the women's side, it's hard to question Binford's recruiting lately. She absolutely knocked it out of the park with this year's freshman class. Next season's class looks impressive as well-but all are from out of state. After Peyton Ferris graduates we will only have Madisyn Shaide from Missoula as an in state player-unless we get a walk on.

The football board has thread after thread on this subject and who has more Montana kids and all that. The issue hardly comes up in basketball discussions.

I'll just note that our last men's Big Sky tournament champion team had 3 starters from Montana (Sprinkle, Leachman, and Hatler).

wbtfg · Post by **wbtfg** » Tue Jan 17, 2017 8:26 pm

It also seems that Montana has become much more of a football state and some of the top athletes who may have played hoops 15-20 years ago are now choosing football.

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Hawks86 · Post by **Hawks86** » Tue Jan 17, 2017 9:10 pm

wbtfg wrote:It also seems that Montana has become much more of a football state and some of the top athletes who may have played hoops 15-20 years ago are now choosing football.

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The best basketball players in recent memory have gone out of state or play football. I'm sure there are a few exceptions like Howard. On the women's side. I would wonder if Binford offered those MT girls and they simply chose the griz?

VimSince03 · Post by **VimSince03** » Tue Jan 17, 2017 9:18 pm

BelgradeBobcat wrote:http://billingsgazette.com/sports/colle ... ign=LEEDCC+

Pretty interesting article about one of Selvig's secrets to his success.

Now for the blue and gold perspective: Have we just given up on in state kids? The men's basketball team has two walk-ons from Montana. Fish missed out on Bobby Howard's little brother-who decided to go to EWU. I haven't heard that he's given any other in state players much interest. Meanwhile 4 junior college signees from last season are no longer with the team. Seems to me that maybe taking a chance on an in state kid, maybe giving them a red shirt would bear more fruit than the JC route.

On the women's side, it's hard to question Binford's recruiting lately. She absolutely knocked it out of the park with this year's freshman class. Next season's class looks impressive as well-but all are from out of state. After Peyton Ferris graduates we will only have Madisyn Shaide from Missoula as an in state player-unless we get a walk on.

The football board has thread after thread on this subject and who has more Montana kids and all that. The issue hardly comes up in basketball discussions.

I'll just note that our last men's Big Sky tournament champion team had 3 starters from Montana (Sprinkle, Leachman, and Hatler).

For Binford, she was very close to landing Sophia Stiles from Malta but somehow the new Griz staff convinced her that Robin Selvig's presence would still be felt around the arena despite a new staff (yes my sarcasm is evident).

As for Fish, do not think they expected to lose Brenden Howard. I mean it was a good battle for him but somehow Eastern got him. But not offering Kendal Manuel from Billings Skyview was questionable. The argument was that they didn't have any scholarships open at that spot but that is all recruiting rhetoric to me. It was a mistake not to offer him even without hindsight.

bobcatfan4life · Post by **bobcatfan4life** » Wed Jan 18, 2017 10:12 am

VimSince03 wrote:
BelgradeBobcat wrote:http://billingsgazette.com/sports/colle ... ign=LEEDCC+

Pretty interesting article about one of Selvig's secrets to his success.

Now for the blue and gold perspective: Have we just given up on in state kids? The men's basketball team has two walk-ons from Montana. Fish missed out on Bobby Howard's little brother-who decided to go to EWU. I haven't heard that he's given any other in state players much interest. Meanwhile 4 junior college signees from last season are no longer with the team. Seems to me that maybe taking a chance on an in state kid, maybe giving them a red shirt would bear more fruit than the JC route.

On the women's side, it's hard to question Binford's recruiting lately. She absolutely knocked it out of the park with this year's freshman class. Next season's class looks impressive as well-but all are from out of state. After Peyton Ferris graduates we will only have Madisyn Shaide from Missoula as an in state player-unless we get a walk on.

The football board has thread after thread on this subject and who has more Montana kids and all that. The issue hardly comes up in basketball discussions.

I'll just note that our last men's Big Sky tournament champion team had 3 starters from Montana (Sprinkle, Leachman, and Hatler).

BelgradeBobcat wrote:http://billingsgazette.com/sports/colle ... ign=LEEDCC+

Pretty interesting article about one of Selvig's secrets to his success.

Now for the blue and gold perspective: Have we just given up on in state kids? The men's basketball team has two walk-ons from Montana. Fish missed out on Bobby Howard's little brother-who decided to go to EWU. I haven't heard that he's given any other in state players much interest. Meanwhile 4 junior college signees from last season are no longer with the team. Seems to me that maybe taking a chance on an in state kid, maybe giving them a red shirt would bear more fruit than the JC route.

On the women's side, it's hard to question Binford's recruiting lately. She absolutely knocked it out of the park with this year's freshman class. Next season's class looks impressive as well-but all are from out of state. After Peyton Ferris graduates we will only have Madisyn Shaide from Missoula as an in state player-unless we get a walk on.

The football board has thread after thread on this subject and who has more Montana kids and all that. The issue hardly comes up in basketball discussions.

I'll just note that our last men's Big Sky tournament champion team had 3 starters from Montana (Sprinkle, Leachman, and Hatler).
For Binford, she was very close to landing Sophia Stiles from Malta but somehow the new Griz staff convinced her that Robin Selvig's presence would still be felt around the arena despite a new staff (yes my sarcasm is evident).

As for Fish, do not think they expected to lose Brenden Howard. I mean it was a good battle for him but somehow Eastern got him. But not offering Kendal Manuel from Billings Skyview was questionable. The argument was that they didn't have any scholarships open at that spot but that is all recruiting rhetoric to me. It was a mistake not to offer him even without hindsight.

This conversation is always interesting because it does seem we don't recruit Montana kids as often for basketball. Brendan Howard made his choice thats all there is too it. Why dwell on the fact he chose Eastern. I know Manuel was a great player in Billings, but at the time we already had Hall...not sure I would trade Hall for Manuel. They were both freshman last year and we also had Mandrell Worthy coming in, who was a top guard from Washington, although he did end up having preseason surgery and redshirted. It could have been a mistake, but with that said if your last option for a scholarship came between Tyler Hall and Kendal Manuel, likely Hall would be the choice. I know he isn't a Montana kid, but we are lucky to have him.

I always wondered why we didn't recruit Montana more heavily and maybe relying so much on JC is not the way to go, but every team does it. Now with drop downs from higher programs, it seems even less likely to recruit Montana heavily. We have a ton of football players in Montana, but just not sure of talent level in basketball in the state. I was always curious about this.

rosco_cat · Post by **rosco_cat** » Wed Jan 18, 2017 11:59 am

I believe there are plenty of talented Montana players but the majority seem to choose NAIA / Frontier. Getting actual playing time is much more appealing to most than 4 years on the bench hoping for a few minutes behind every juco player.

msu_agfan · Post by **msu_agfan** » Wed Jan 18, 2017 12:53 pm

as a reminder, Fish does have 2 montana kids on the team, they are walkons, but they do see playing time occasionally. I don't think he is opposed to getting in-state players.

bobcatfan4life · Post by **bobcatfan4life** » Wed Jan 18, 2017 1:03 pm

Yes he does and they both do get some playing time, not a lot but more than walk ons ever did with the last coach, i can tell you that much. I would agree he isn't opposed to it either.

desmond1957 · Post by **desmond1957** » Wed Jan 18, 2017 5:10 pm

Fish " didn't miss out" on Brenden Howard, he tried his best to get him but there was no way he was coming here after the way a former coach screwed over his brother Bobby!

rosco_cat · Post by **rosco_cat** » Wed Jan 18, 2017 6:12 pm

msu_agfan wrote:as a reminder, Fish does have 2 montana kids on the team, they are walkons, but they do see playing time occasionally. I don't think he is opposed to getting in-state players.

If you consider that out of the 20 games played so far this year, the 2 Montana walk-ons have played a combined 30 minutes, or approximately 15 minutes each. I can't speak for them but such limited playing time may not interest a lot of players.

BelgradeBobcat · Post by **BelgradeBobcat** » Wed Jan 18, 2017 8:06 pm

rosco_cat wrote:
msu_agfan wrote:as a reminder, Fish does have 2 montana kids on the team, they are walkons, but they do see playing time occasionally. I don't think he is opposed to getting in-state players.
If you consider that out of the 20 games played so far this year, the 2 Montana walk-ons have played a combined 30 minutes, or approximately 15 minutes each. I can't speak for them but such limited playing time may not interest a lot of players.

Neither of our walkons-bless their heart-were anywhere close to being the top high school players in Montana. I think a few of the top high school players from Montana could get playing time on our roster. That's not the issue. Asking them to walk on here in lieu of the scholarship from a Frontier school will keep them away-college is expensive.

kwcat · Post by **kwcat** » Thu Jan 19, 2017 9:35 pm

BelgradeBobcat wrote:http://billingsgazette.com/sports/colle ... ign=LEEDCC+

Pretty interesting article about one of Selvig's secrets to his success.

Now for the blue and gold perspective: Have we just given up on in state kids? The men's basketball team has two walk-ons from Montana. Fish missed out on Bobby Howard's little brother-who decided to go to EWU. I haven't heard that he's given any other in state players much interest. Meanwhile 4 junior college signees from last season are no longer with the team. Seems to me that maybe taking a chance on an in state kid, maybe giving them a red shirt would bear more fruit than the JC route.

On the women's side, it's hard to question Binford's recruiting lately. She absolutely knocked it out of the park with this year's freshman class. Next season's class looks impressive as well-but all are from out of state. After Peyton Ferris graduates we will only have Madisyn Shaide from Missoula as an in state player-unless we get a walk on.

The football board has thread after thread on this subject and who has more Montana kids and all that. The issue hardly comes up in basketball discussions.

I'll just note that our last men's Big Sky tournament champion team had 3 starters from Montana (Sprinkle, Leachman, and Hatler).

Pretty simple recipe for butts in the seats. Winning of course, but adding 3 or 4 MT kids with significant playing time.
Look at the best crowds over the last 30 years.

rosco_cat · Post by **rosco_cat** » Fri Jan 20, 2017 10:55 am

BelgradeBobcat wrote:
rosco_cat wrote:
msu_agfan wrote:as a reminder, Fish does have 2 montana kids on the team, they are walkons, but they do see playing time occasionally. I don't think he is opposed to getting in-state players.
If you consider that out of the 20 games played so far this year, the 2 Montana walk-ons have played a combined 30 minutes, or approximately 15 minutes each. I can't speak for them but such limited playing time may not interest a lot of players.
Neither of our walkons-bless their heart-were anywhere close to being the top high school players in Montana. I think a few of the top high school players from Montana could get playing time on our roster. That's not the issue. Asking them to walk on here in lieu of the scholarship from a Frontier school will keep them away-college is expensive.

So you're saying that the few top Montana players can only get a walk on offer and no scholarship? Pretty easy decision to play elsewhere if that's the case.

desmond1957 · Post by **desmond1957** » Sat Jan 21, 2017 4:25 pm

Just for curiosity who do you think are Division 1 players in Montana high schools this year in the mens ranks and even add in last years? I don't recall any big men last year other than Howard in Mt. so who you do you think were better guards than the two Fish got (Frey and Klines)? And don't put in Howard, the reason Fish couldn't get him has been beaten enuf!

BelgradeBobcat · Post by **BelgradeBobcat** » Sat Jan 21, 2017 6:42 pm

desmond1957 wrote:Just for curiosity who do you think are Division 1 players in Montana high schools this year in the mens ranks and even add in last years? I don't recall any big men last year other than Howard in Mt. so who you do you think were better guards than the two Fish got (Frey and Klines)? And don't put in Howard, the reason Fish couldn't get him has been beaten enuf!

There's not room on our roster for even one Montana scholarship guy? I'm not saying we load up the roster with Montana guys. If we do we'll have a Frontier team. I don't know high school basketball in the state well enough to know who we missed out on. I'll use some past players as an example. Danny Robison gave this team 4 years. He worked his butt off and played through sickness and injury. Shy Blake gave us one season, never got the system, fouled out most of the time, and didn't make it to his senior season. Blake got himself a full ride to be here, not sure, but I think Robison may have started off as a walkon. No Big Sky school can stop going the JC route for some of their players, but I still think if you take an in state kid, coach him up, get him in weight room-you can make him into a D-1 basketball player and that may payoff better than having 4 of your JC signees from last season not even finish up here.

SACCAT · Post by **SACCAT** » Sat Jan 21, 2017 8:37 pm

I follow AA basketball probably more than most (it is one of my jobs) and I can say, there have been MAYBE 2 players the last 4 years that could play at the Big Sky level (Manuel and Howard) there is good talent in AA basketball, but not on a D1 level. When I grew up, Montana was known for Basketball, from class C up to AA. Now days it is different. Basketball is a second option for most great athletes (Football and Baseball are huge now days). I am speaking for boys AA. There are some very good girls basketball players in the state, but two of the best (Toth and Lonergen) were offered by MSU and chose to leave town for a different experience (Toth to BSU) or chose there favorite sport over Basketball (Lonergan V-ball at MSU). The talent we use to see in Montana just isn't there like it use to be.

Cataholic · Post by **Cataholic** » Sat Jan 21, 2017 8:54 pm

SACCAT wrote:I follow AA basketball probably more than most (it is one of my jobs) and I can say, there have been MAYBE 2 players the last 4 years that could play at the Big Sky level (Manuel and Howard) there is good talent in AA basketball, but not on a D1 level. When I grew up, Montana was known for Basketball, from class C up to AA. Now days it is different. Basketball is a second option for most great athletes (Football and Baseball are huge now days). I am speaking for boys AA. There are some very good girls basketball players in the state, but two of the best (Toth and Lonergen) were offered by MSU and chose to leave town for a different experience (Toth to BSU) or chose there favorite sport over Basketball (Lonergan V-ball at MSU). The talent we use to see in Montana just isn't there like it use to be.

You forgot Tinkle. I also agree that there has not been many Big Sky caliber players. Additionally, I watched Howard recently and he did not blow me away. Big kid, good basketball player, but does not look like a D1 player. Yet he still put out up 20 and 10 so what do I know???

SACCAT · Post by **SACCAT** » Sat Jan 21, 2017 9:05 pm

Cataholic wrote:
SACCAT wrote:I follow AA basketball probably more than most (it is one of my jobs) and I can say, there have been MAYBE 2 players the last 4 years that could play at the Big Sky level (Manuel and Howard) there is good talent in AA basketball, but not on a D1 level. When I grew up, Montana was known for Basketball, from class C up to AA. Now days it is different. Basketball is a second option for most great athletes (Football and Baseball are huge now days). I am speaking for boys AA. There are some very good girls basketball players in the state, but two of the best (Toth and Lonergen) were offered by MSU and chose to leave town for a different experience (Toth to BSU) or chose there favorite sport over Basketball (Lonergan V-ball at MSU). The talent we use to see in Montana just isn't there like it use to be.
You forgot Tinkle. I also agree that there has not been many Big Sky caliber players. Additionally, I watched Howard recently and he did not blow me away. Big kid, good basketball player, but does not look like a D1 player. Yet he still put out up 20 and 10 so what do I know???

Yep, my bad on Tinkle (my Bobcat brain tries hard to forget the name Tinkle). As for Howard, that is a tough call. I watched him last year, and was impressed with the offence side of the ball, but his defense was suspect. Hard to say when you are by far the best player on the court, but we will see when he goes up against kids just as good. Aaron Weidenaar was a very good player last year for the Hawks as well, and is playing a little this year at Central Arkansas. I didn't look at him as a true D1 player (little to streaky at times his senior year) but he could maybe be put on the list as well.

msu_agfan · Post by **msu_agfan** » Mon Jan 23, 2017 8:37 am

Slightly off topic, but, what did it take to keep Selvig for so long? I'm wondering what can be done to keep a good coach here at MSU, it seems especially the Men's coaches are always looking to "move up".

MSU01 · Post by **MSU01** » Mon Jan 23, 2017 8:49 am

msu_agfan wrote:Slightly off topic, but, what did it take to keep Selvig for so long? I'm wondering what can be done to keep a good coach here at MSU, it seems especially the Men's coaches are always looking to "move up".

I doubt there is some kind of magic formula to keep a successful coach around as long as Selvig was at UM, especially given the compensation for coaches at the Big Sky level compared to what is offered by schools in bigger conferences. I assume part of the reason Selvig stuck around is because he is from Montana and wanted to stay in the state even though surely he could have moved up at some point had he chosen to do so. Binford has been at MSU for over 10 years now, which is pretty remarkable in itself in this day and age. She has had a pretty mixed resume at MSU, but seems to have things going in a very good direction right now - it will be interesting to see if she has an opportunity to move up here in the next few years.

I wouldn't say our last few men's coaches have been looking to move up. Durham seemed content to stay at MSU (another Montana-born coach with family ties to the area), Huse was doing just enough to not get fired with middle of the pack finishes and occasional flashes of promise, and Fish is still trying to build up the program to a level that a bigger school might be interested.

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