Choate year 4

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RobertoGato
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Re: Choate year 4

Post by RobertoGato » Mon Aug 12, 2019 11:09 am

kennethnoisewater wrote:
Mon Aug 12, 2019 10:42 am
iaafan wrote:
Mon Aug 12, 2019 10:40 am
kennethnoisewater wrote:
Mon Aug 12, 2019 10:28 am
I think it's interesting to follow the chain of events that led to the current QB situation. Most of it has been mentioned in this thread, but I think it bears repeating for context. I would agree it started with McQueary. If he would've stayed, he would've played, but I don't necessarily blame anybody for that. It might have taken a miracle to keep him in Bozeman.

Prukop leaves, Choate arrives, Choate has to find somebody. He rolled the dice on Bruggman and it didn't work out. Kramer started out similarly if memory serves. He was big on Farhad Azimi (sp?), he didn't pan out. Then there was Tyler Thomas, who also didn't pan out. Enter Travis Lulay, who was a generational talent that changed MSU football arguably as much as any one person ever. Prior to that, there were a lot of people scratching their heads about Kramer's ability to identify even a halfway decent QB.

So Bruggman doesn't work out, and that's a bit of a negative mark on Choate's early tenure. But this is a position group where the cupboard truly was bare. Every coach should be able to miss on one player at a position group because there should be some depth there. Chris Murray came in and wasn't a great QB, just a great athlete. I think most of us were happy with what he was able to do but not quite satisfied with his pure QB play, although the potential seemed to be there. We all know what happened there to necessitate bringing in Andersen. TA was the same thing as Murray. It was like we always did in Class B High School football--you just put your best athlete at QB and they make stuff happen, even when they aren't the best pure QB in the world. But eventually that bites you. Eventually great wide receivers don't want to come because this hero of a QB completes two passes in a rivalry game. Eventually it looks like a program doesn't like to throw the ball and guys like Gresch Jensen don't want to come to Bozeman to be a game manager. They think that's what the HC wants (just like a lot of fans have thought), and the coach can't show from his past history that it's not what he wants because the evidence just isn't there.

It's just a domino effect that started with an empty cupboard at QB and a swing and a miss on the first recruit Choate was able to bring in. The trajectory of this team is positive, but would have been more positive with the right QB transfer right off the bat. Let's say Bruggman was great. He plays until last year, the Cats probably win a few more games, they're able to attract a different type of talent at the position (as well as at WR). It's a ripple effect that impacts everything with just one recruit. The fact that Choate has not only survived that but has moved the program forward at an impressive rate is a tremendous credit to him.
Some of this is factually incorrect.
OK that's fair, like all of it or....?
Well just for starters, I don't recall Choate ever rolling any dice. I think you made that up. He seems like a blackjack man to me.

We don't keep players in cupboards, so that's factually incorrect.

I doubt the program is using something as silly as dominoes in their quest for a QB. I mean... maybe some random recruit from Iowa or some such place really loves playing dominoes because he learned it from granny back on the corn farm, but I kind of doubt it.

Those are the issues that I see.



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kennethnoisewater
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Re: Choate year 4

Post by kennethnoisewater » Mon Aug 12, 2019 11:13 am

RobertoGato wrote:
Mon Aug 12, 2019 11:09 am
kennethnoisewater wrote:
Mon Aug 12, 2019 10:42 am
iaafan wrote:
Mon Aug 12, 2019 10:40 am
kennethnoisewater wrote:
Mon Aug 12, 2019 10:28 am
I think it's interesting to follow the chain of events that led to the current QB situation. Most of it has been mentioned in this thread, but I think it bears repeating for context. I would agree it started with McQueary. If he would've stayed, he would've played, but I don't necessarily blame anybody for that. It might have taken a miracle to keep him in Bozeman.

Prukop leaves, Choate arrives, Choate has to find somebody. He rolled the dice on Bruggman and it didn't work out. Kramer started out similarly if memory serves. He was big on Farhad Azimi (sp?), he didn't pan out. Then there was Tyler Thomas, who also didn't pan out. Enter Travis Lulay, who was a generational talent that changed MSU football arguably as much as any one person ever. Prior to that, there were a lot of people scratching their heads about Kramer's ability to identify even a halfway decent QB.

So Bruggman doesn't work out, and that's a bit of a negative mark on Choate's early tenure. But this is a position group where the cupboard truly was bare. Every coach should be able to miss on one player at a position group because there should be some depth there. Chris Murray came in and wasn't a great QB, just a great athlete. I think most of us were happy with what he was able to do but not quite satisfied with his pure QB play, although the potential seemed to be there. We all know what happened there to necessitate bringing in Andersen. TA was the same thing as Murray. It was like we always did in Class B High School football--you just put your best athlete at QB and they make stuff happen, even when they aren't the best pure QB in the world. But eventually that bites you. Eventually great wide receivers don't want to come because this hero of a QB completes two passes in a rivalry game. Eventually it looks like a program doesn't like to throw the ball and guys like Gresch Jensen don't want to come to Bozeman to be a game manager. They think that's what the HC wants (just like a lot of fans have thought), and the coach can't show from his past history that it's not what he wants because the evidence just isn't there.

It's just a domino effect that started with an empty cupboard at QB and a swing and a miss on the first recruit Choate was able to bring in. The trajectory of this team is positive, but would have been more positive with the right QB transfer right off the bat. Let's say Bruggman was great. He plays until last year, the Cats probably win a few more games, they're able to attract a different type of talent at the position (as well as at WR). It's a ripple effect that impacts everything with just one recruit. The fact that Choate has not only survived that but has moved the program forward at an impressive rate is a tremendous credit to him.
Some of this is factually incorrect.
OK that's fair, like all of it or....?
Well just for starters, I don't recall Choate ever rolling any dice. I think you made that up. He seems like a blackjack man to me.

We don't keep players in cupboards, so that's factually incorrect.

I doubt the program is using something as silly as dominoes in their quest for a QB. I mean... maybe some random recruit from Iowa or some such place really loves playing dominoes because he learned it from granny back on the corn farm, but I kind of doubt it.

Those are the issues that I see.
I appreciate your candor. I will try to be better. Iron sharpens iron, as I recently heard Coach Choate say.


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RobertoGato
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Re: Choate year 4

Post by RobertoGato » Mon Aug 12, 2019 11:23 am

kennethnoisewater wrote:
Mon Aug 12, 2019 11:13 am
RobertoGato wrote:
Mon Aug 12, 2019 11:09 am
kennethnoisewater wrote:
Mon Aug 12, 2019 10:42 am
iaafan wrote:
Mon Aug 12, 2019 10:40 am
kennethnoisewater wrote:
Mon Aug 12, 2019 10:28 am
I think it's interesting to follow the chain of events that led to the current QB situation. Most of it has been mentioned in this thread, but I think it bears repeating for context. I would agree it started with McQueary. If he would've stayed, he would've played, but I don't necessarily blame anybody for that. It might have taken a miracle to keep him in Bozeman.

Prukop leaves, Choate arrives, Choate has to find somebody. He rolled the dice on Bruggman and it didn't work out. Kramer started out similarly if memory serves. He was big on Farhad Azimi (sp?), he didn't pan out. Then there was Tyler Thomas, who also didn't pan out. Enter Travis Lulay, who was a generational talent that changed MSU football arguably as much as any one person ever. Prior to that, there were a lot of people scratching their heads about Kramer's ability to identify even a halfway decent QB.

So Bruggman doesn't work out, and that's a bit of a negative mark on Choate's early tenure. But this is a position group where the cupboard truly was bare. Every coach should be able to miss on one player at a position group because there should be some depth there. Chris Murray came in and wasn't a great QB, just a great athlete. I think most of us were happy with what he was able to do but not quite satisfied with his pure QB play, although the potential seemed to be there. We all know what happened there to necessitate bringing in Andersen. TA was the same thing as Murray. It was like we always did in Class B High School football--you just put your best athlete at QB and they make stuff happen, even when they aren't the best pure QB in the world. But eventually that bites you. Eventually great wide receivers don't want to come because this hero of a QB completes two passes in a rivalry game. Eventually it looks like a program doesn't like to throw the ball and guys like Gresch Jensen don't want to come to Bozeman to be a game manager. They think that's what the HC wants (just like a lot of fans have thought), and the coach can't show from his past history that it's not what he wants because the evidence just isn't there.

It's just a domino effect that started with an empty cupboard at QB and a swing and a miss on the first recruit Choate was able to bring in. The trajectory of this team is positive, but would have been more positive with the right QB transfer right off the bat. Let's say Bruggman was great. He plays until last year, the Cats probably win a few more games, they're able to attract a different type of talent at the position (as well as at WR). It's a ripple effect that impacts everything with just one recruit. The fact that Choate has not only survived that but has moved the program forward at an impressive rate is a tremendous credit to him.
Some of this is factually incorrect.
OK that's fair, like all of it or....?
Well just for starters, I don't recall Choate ever rolling any dice. I think you made that up. He seems like a blackjack man to me.

We don't keep players in cupboards, so that's factually incorrect.

I doubt the program is using something as silly as dominoes in their quest for a QB. I mean... maybe some random recruit from Iowa or some such place really loves playing dominoes because he learned it from granny back on the corn farm, but I kind of doubt it.

Those are the issues that I see.
I appreciate your candor. I will try to be better. Iron sharpens iron, as I recently heard Coach Choate say.
While we're clearing the air, I highly doubt Choate has ever used iron to sharpen iron.



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Re: Choate year 4

Post by bobcat99 » Mon Aug 12, 2019 11:25 am

RobertoGato wrote:
Mon Aug 12, 2019 11:09 am
kennethnoisewater wrote:
Mon Aug 12, 2019 10:42 am
iaafan wrote:
Mon Aug 12, 2019 10:40 am
kennethnoisewater wrote:
Mon Aug 12, 2019 10:28 am
I think it's interesting to follow the chain of events that led to the current QB situation. Most of it has been mentioned in this thread, but I think it bears repeating for context. I would agree it started with McQueary. If he would've stayed, he would've played, but I don't necessarily blame anybody for that. It might have taken a miracle to keep him in Bozeman.

Prukop leaves, Choate arrives, Choate has to find somebody. He rolled the dice on Bruggman and it didn't work out. Kramer started out similarly if memory serves. He was big on Farhad Azimi (sp?), he didn't pan out. Then there was Tyler Thomas, who also didn't pan out. Enter Travis Lulay, who was a generational talent that changed MSU football arguably as much as any one person ever. Prior to that, there were a lot of people scratching their heads about Kramer's ability to identify even a halfway decent QB.

So Bruggman doesn't work out, and that's a bit of a negative mark on Choate's early tenure. But this is a position group where the cupboard truly was bare. Every coach should be able to miss on one player at a position group because there should be some depth there. Chris Murray came in and wasn't a great QB, just a great athlete. I think most of us were happy with what he was able to do but not quite satisfied with his pure QB play, although the potential seemed to be there. We all know what happened there to necessitate bringing in Andersen. TA was the same thing as Murray. It was like we always did in Class B High School football--you just put your best athlete at QB and they make stuff happen, even when they aren't the best pure QB in the world. But eventually that bites you. Eventually great wide receivers don't want to come because this hero of a QB completes two passes in a rivalry game. Eventually it looks like a program doesn't like to throw the ball and guys like Gresch Jensen don't want to come to Bozeman to be a game manager. They think that's what the HC wants (just like a lot of fans have thought), and the coach can't show from his past history that it's not what he wants because the evidence just isn't there.

It's just a domino effect that started with an empty cupboard at QB and a swing and a miss on the first recruit Choate was able to bring in. The trajectory of this team is positive, but would have been more positive with the right QB transfer right off the bat. Let's say Bruggman was great. He plays until last year, the Cats probably win a few more games, they're able to attract a different type of talent at the position (as well as at WR). It's a ripple effect that impacts everything with just one recruit. The fact that Choate has not only survived that but has moved the program forward at an impressive rate is a tremendous credit to him.
Some of this is factually incorrect.
OK that's fair, like all of it or....?
Well just for starters, I don't recall Choate ever rolling any dice. I think you made that up. He seems like a blackjack man to me.

We don't keep players in cupboards, so that's factually incorrect.

I doubt the program is using something as silly as dominoes in their quest for a QB. I mean... maybe some random recruit from Iowa or some such place really loves playing dominoes because he learned it from granny back on the corn farm, but I kind of doubt it.

Those are the issues that I see.
Iowans only like crappy beer, flat land, and the smell of pig ******. Can't forget corn on the cob too, but at least that's good.

I hate Iowa. Damn good football program though!



iaafan
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Re: Choate year 4

Post by iaafan » Mon Aug 12, 2019 11:29 am

VimSince03 wrote:
Mon Aug 12, 2019 10:52 am
kennethnoisewater wrote:
Mon Aug 12, 2019 10:42 am
iaafan wrote:
Mon Aug 12, 2019 10:40 am
kennethnoisewater wrote:
Mon Aug 12, 2019 10:28 am
I think it's interesting to follow the chain of events that led to the current QB situation. Most of it has been mentioned in this thread, but I think it bears repeating for context. I would agree it started with McQueary. If he would've stayed, he would've played, but I don't necessarily blame anybody for that. It might have taken a miracle to keep him in Bozeman.

Prukop leaves, Choate arrives, Choate has to find somebody. He rolled the dice on Bruggman and it didn't work out. Kramer started out similarly if memory serves. He was big on Farhad Azimi (sp?), he didn't pan out. Then there was Tyler Thomas, who also didn't pan out. Enter Travis Lulay, who was a generational talent that changed MSU football arguably as much as any one person ever. Prior to that, there were a lot of people scratching their heads about Kramer's ability to identify even a halfway decent QB.

So Bruggman doesn't work out, and that's a bit of a negative mark on Choate's early tenure. But this is a position group where the cupboard truly was bare. Every coach should be able to miss on one player at a position group because there should be some depth there. Chris Murray came in and wasn't a great QB, just a great athlete. I think most of us were happy with what he was able to do but not quite satisfied with his pure QB play, although the potential seemed to be there. We all know what happened there to necessitate bringing in Andersen. TA was the same thing as Murray. It was like we always did in Class B High School football--you just put your best athlete at QB and they make stuff happen, even when they aren't the best pure QB in the world. But eventually that bites you. Eventually great wide receivers don't want to come because this hero of a QB completes two passes in a rivalry game. Eventually it looks like a program doesn't like to throw the ball and guys like Gresch Jensen don't want to come to Bozeman to be a game manager. They think that's what the HC wants (just like a lot of fans have thought), and the coach can't show from his past history that it's not what he wants because the evidence just isn't there.

It's just a domino effect that started with an empty cupboard at QB and a swing and a miss on the first recruit Choate was able to bring in. The trajectory of this team is positive, but would have been more positive with the right QB transfer right off the bat. Let's say Bruggman was great. He plays until last year, the Cats probably win a few more games, they're able to attract a different type of talent at the position (as well as at WR). It's a ripple effect that impacts everything with just one recruit. The fact that Choate has not only survived that but has moved the program forward at an impressive rate is a tremendous credit to him.
Some of this is factually incorrect.
OK that's fair, like all of it or....?
I would also like to know what is factually incorrect. I thought this was pretty spot on.
Not sure, but I think he’s referring to TA as this “hero of a QB.” TA completed a lot of passes vs UM last year. Not 2. Murray, who I don’t recall anyone calling a hero QB, had one game vs UM that had just two completions, but the other had several more.

MSU seems to have brought in numerous good receivers since Choate came.

I’ve yet to see anything about Jensen saying he didn’t want to come here to be a game manager. He went to an FBS school that had just hired Stitt, which was totally understandable.



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VimSince03
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Re: Choate year 4

Post by VimSince03 » Mon Aug 12, 2019 11:34 am

iaafan wrote:
Mon Aug 12, 2019 11:29 am
VimSince03 wrote:
Mon Aug 12, 2019 10:52 am
kennethnoisewater wrote:
Mon Aug 12, 2019 10:42 am
iaafan wrote:
Mon Aug 12, 2019 10:40 am
kennethnoisewater wrote:
Mon Aug 12, 2019 10:28 am
I think it's interesting to follow the chain of events that led to the current QB situation. Most of it has been mentioned in this thread, but I think it bears repeating for context. I would agree it started with McQueary. If he would've stayed, he would've played, but I don't necessarily blame anybody for that. It might have taken a miracle to keep him in Bozeman.

Prukop leaves, Choate arrives, Choate has to find somebody. He rolled the dice on Bruggman and it didn't work out. Kramer started out similarly if memory serves. He was big on Farhad Azimi (sp?), he didn't pan out. Then there was Tyler Thomas, who also didn't pan out. Enter Travis Lulay, who was a generational talent that changed MSU football arguably as much as any one person ever. Prior to that, there were a lot of people scratching their heads about Kramer's ability to identify even a halfway decent QB.

So Bruggman doesn't work out, and that's a bit of a negative mark on Choate's early tenure. But this is a position group where the cupboard truly was bare. Every coach should be able to miss on one player at a position group because there should be some depth there. Chris Murray came in and wasn't a great QB, just a great athlete. I think most of us were happy with what he was able to do but not quite satisfied with his pure QB play, although the potential seemed to be there. We all know what happened there to necessitate bringing in Andersen. TA was the same thing as Murray. It was like we always did in Class B High School football--you just put your best athlete at QB and they make stuff happen, even when they aren't the best pure QB in the world. But eventually that bites you. Eventually great wide receivers don't want to come because this hero of a QB completes two passes in a rivalry game. Eventually it looks like a program doesn't like to throw the ball and guys like Gresch Jensen don't want to come to Bozeman to be a game manager. They think that's what the HC wants (just like a lot of fans have thought), and the coach can't show from his past history that it's not what he wants because the evidence just isn't there.

It's just a domino effect that started with an empty cupboard at QB and a swing and a miss on the first recruit Choate was able to bring in. The trajectory of this team is positive, but would have been more positive with the right QB transfer right off the bat. Let's say Bruggman was great. He plays until last year, the Cats probably win a few more games, they're able to attract a different type of talent at the position (as well as at WR). It's a ripple effect that impacts everything with just one recruit. The fact that Choate has not only survived that but has moved the program forward at an impressive rate is a tremendous credit to him.
Some of this is factually incorrect.
OK that's fair, like all of it or....?
I would also like to know what is factually incorrect. I thought this was pretty spot on.
Not sure, but I think he’s referring to TA as this “hero of a QB.” TA completed a lot of passes vs UM last year. Not 2. Murray, who I don’t recall anyone calling a hero QB, had one game vs UM that had just two completions, but the other had several more.

MSU seems to have brought in numerous good receivers since Choate came.

I’ve yet to see anything about Jensen saying he didn’t want to come here to be a game manager. He went to an FBS school that had just hired Stitt, which was totally understandable.
He's obviously referencing Murray there.

I agree on the Jensen part. Stitt getting hired changed that outcome for MSU immediately. If not, there was a very good chance Gresch was coming to MSU from what I was told.


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HelenaCat95
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Re: Choate year 4

Post by HelenaCat95 » Mon Aug 12, 2019 11:42 am

Also...little know fact....Brock Purdy, Iowa State's 2018 Freshman phenom QB was all set to become a Bobcat, until he got a late offer from Iowa State.



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Re: Choate year 4

Post by kennethnoisewater » Mon Aug 12, 2019 11:45 am

iaafan wrote:
Mon Aug 12, 2019 11:29 am
VimSince03 wrote:
Mon Aug 12, 2019 10:52 am
kennethnoisewater wrote:
Mon Aug 12, 2019 10:42 am
iaafan wrote:
Mon Aug 12, 2019 10:40 am
kennethnoisewater wrote:
Mon Aug 12, 2019 10:28 am
I think it's interesting to follow the chain of events that led to the current QB situation. Most of it has been mentioned in this thread, but I think it bears repeating for context. I would agree it started with McQueary. If he would've stayed, he would've played, but I don't necessarily blame anybody for that. It might have taken a miracle to keep him in Bozeman.

Prukop leaves, Choate arrives, Choate has to find somebody. He rolled the dice on Bruggman and it didn't work out. Kramer started out similarly if memory serves. He was big on Farhad Azimi (sp?), he didn't pan out. Then there was Tyler Thomas, who also didn't pan out. Enter Travis Lulay, who was a generational talent that changed MSU football arguably as much as any one person ever. Prior to that, there were a lot of people scratching their heads about Kramer's ability to identify even a halfway decent QB.

So Bruggman doesn't work out, and that's a bit of a negative mark on Choate's early tenure. But this is a position group where the cupboard truly was bare. Every coach should be able to miss on one player at a position group because there should be some depth there. Chris Murray came in and wasn't a great QB, just a great athlete. I think most of us were happy with what he was able to do but not quite satisfied with his pure QB play, although the potential seemed to be there. We all know what happened there to necessitate bringing in Andersen. TA was the same thing as Murray. It was like we always did in Class B High School football--you just put your best athlete at QB and they make stuff happen, even when they aren't the best pure QB in the world. But eventually that bites you. Eventually great wide receivers don't want to come because this hero of a QB completes two passes in a rivalry game. Eventually it looks like a program doesn't like to throw the ball and guys like Gresch Jensen don't want to come to Bozeman to be a game manager. They think that's what the HC wants (just like a lot of fans have thought), and the coach can't show from his past history that it's not what he wants because the evidence just isn't there.

It's just a domino effect that started with an empty cupboard at QB and a swing and a miss on the first recruit Choate was able to bring in. The trajectory of this team is positive, but would have been more positive with the right QB transfer right off the bat. Let's say Bruggman was great. He plays until last year, the Cats probably win a few more games, they're able to attract a different type of talent at the position (as well as at WR). It's a ripple effect that impacts everything with just one recruit. The fact that Choate has not only survived that but has moved the program forward at an impressive rate is a tremendous credit to him.
Some of this is factually incorrect.
OK that's fair, like all of it or....?
I would also like to know what is factually incorrect. I thought this was pretty spot on.
Not sure, but I think he’s referring to TA as this “hero of a QB.” TA completed a lot of passes vs UM last year. Not 2. Murray, who I don’t recall anyone calling a hero QB, had one game vs UM that had just two completions, but the other had several more.

MSU seems to have brought in numerous good receivers since Choate came.

I’ve yet to see anything about Jensen saying he didn’t want to come here to be a game manager. He went to an FBS school that had just hired Stitt.
I was referring to Murray as the "hero of a QB", because he truly was a hero of those games. He played awesome and was appropriately celebrated for it. But I think a lot of serious QB prospects--right or wrong--might look at that performance and the positive feedback he got for it and assume that's the type of player MSU was building around at that position.

I don't know what was going on in Jensen's mind, so yes I took some liberties there, but I don't think it's a stretch to think he might not have been attracted to the kind of offensive style at MSU over the previous couple of years. And yes, he might have just followed Stitt because of his comfort with him, but I'm not alone in thinking he might have given MSU a more serious look if there had been more recent history of an effective passing game.

Nobody can say with absolute certainty how everything would have played out, but I think all of this is pretty plausible.


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iaafan
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Re: Choate year 4

Post by iaafan » Mon Aug 12, 2019 12:12 pm

I was just saying some of what you said was factually incorrect.

As an aside, Murray was 10-15-0, 98 yards in 2017. Andersen was 15-24-0, 158 yards last year.

If Jensen didn’t come here for that reason I’d really question his competitive spirit. MSU has been able to recruit numerous good receivers.



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