South gym roof collapse

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FTG247365
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Re: South gym roof collapse

Post by FTG247365 » Sat Mar 09, 2019 7:00 pm

AFCAT wrote:
Sat Mar 09, 2019 6:37 pm
FTG247365 wrote:
Sat Mar 09, 2019 5:33 pm
Went to the Wilson School Gym in Bozeman this morning for some YMCA basketball action. I was blown away the gym that was built in 36'-37'(someone correct me if I'm wrong) has a slightly curved roof(positive drainage) , extremely beefy steel truss's, solid concrete walls with windows, has lasted longer than a flat roof building, weird. Why over time did construction get away from the common sense approach and go to the cost savings only approach?
I think you just answered your own question. The reason is money.
Now IF insurance covers the ignorance from the early 70s it won't cover much. MSU still won't build it correctly. Really its 4 walls a roof, they will still find a way too build it with recycled pallets, egg cartons and cricket dung.



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Re: South gym roof collapse

Post by PHAT CAT » Sat Mar 09, 2019 7:18 pm

FTG247365 wrote:
Sat Mar 09, 2019 5:33 pm
Went to the Wilson School Gym in Bozeman this morning for some YMCA basketball action. I was blown away the gym that was built in 36'-37'(someone correct me if I'm wrong) has a slightly curved roof(positive drainage) , extremely beefy steel truss's, solid concrete walls with windows, has lasted longer than a flat roof building, weird. Why over time did construction get away from the common sense approach and go to the cost savings only approach?
That was built right after Nancy Pelosi was voted into office. "Let's go Green Willis."



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Re: South gym roof collapse

Post by Hawks86 » Sat Mar 09, 2019 8:43 pm



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Re: South gym roof collapse

Post by Cataholic » Sat Mar 09, 2019 9:06 pm

Hawks86 wrote:
Sat Mar 09, 2019 8:43 pm
Wow. Please tell me it was closed and nobody was inside.



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Re: South gym roof collapse

Post by MSU01 » Sat Mar 09, 2019 9:09 pm

Cataholic wrote:
Sat Mar 09, 2019 9:06 pm
Hawks86 wrote:
Sat Mar 09, 2019 8:43 pm
Wow. Please tell me it was closed and nobody was inside.
It was closed. They predicted that the second roof would collapse at any time.



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Re: South gym roof collapse

Post by catsrback76 » Sat Mar 09, 2019 9:35 pm

MSU01 wrote:
Sat Mar 09, 2019 9:09 pm
Cataholic wrote:
Sat Mar 09, 2019 9:06 pm
Hawks86 wrote:
Sat Mar 09, 2019 8:43 pm
Wow. Please tell me it was closed and nobody was inside.
It was closed. They predicted that the second roof would collapse at any time.
Well, now the plot thickens...the Athletic Dept will NOW start on a "revised" building plan and schedule. :coffee:



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Re: South gym roof collapse

Post by FTG247365 » Sat Mar 09, 2019 10:10 pm

catsrback76 wrote:
Sat Mar 09, 2019 9:35 pm
MSU01 wrote:
Sat Mar 09, 2019 9:09 pm
Cataholic wrote:
Sat Mar 09, 2019 9:06 pm
Hawks86 wrote:
Sat Mar 09, 2019 8:43 pm
Wow. Please tell me it was closed and nobody was inside.
It was closed. They predicted that the second roof would collapse at any time.
Well, now the plot thickens...the Athletic Dept will NOW start on a "revised" building plan and schedule. :coffee:
It was an inside job!



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GoCats18
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Re: South gym roof collapse

Post by GoCats18 » Sat Mar 09, 2019 11:22 pm

Hopefully the rebuild isn’t a 20 year plan.


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Re: South gym roof collapse

Post by 4thecats » Sun Mar 10, 2019 12:51 am

Since nobody was hurt. This is actually a blessing.
Insurance will cover this. MSU Will be able to upgrade both gyms And not have to use their donations or state allocated money. Win win



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Re: South gym roof collapse

Post by catsrback76 » Sun Mar 10, 2019 12:52 am

I'm curious how many flat roof designed buildings are in the new plan? 8)



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Re: South gym roof collapse

Post by TomCat88 » Sun Mar 10, 2019 1:22 am

catsrback76 wrote:
Sun Mar 10, 2019 12:52 am
I'm curious how many flat roof designed buildings are in the new plan? 8)
Don’t almost all buildings, aside from churches and home, have flat roofs?


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Re: South gym roof collapse

Post by asstastic » Sun Mar 10, 2019 1:25 am

TomCat88 wrote:
Sun Mar 10, 2019 1:22 am
catsrback76 wrote:
Sun Mar 10, 2019 12:52 am
I'm curious how many flat roof designed buildings are in the new plan? 8)
Don’t almost all buildings, aside from churches and home, have flat roofs?
Tru dat


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catsrback76
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Re: South gym roof collapse

Post by catsrback76 » Sun Mar 10, 2019 7:07 am

TomCat88 wrote:
Sun Mar 10, 2019 1:22 am
catsrback76 wrote:
Sun Mar 10, 2019 12:52 am
I'm curious how many flat roof designed buildings are in the new plan? 8)
Don’t almost all buildings, aside from churches and home, have flat roofs?
Romney, Brick Breeden, Montana Hall, Lewis, would argue the answer is no. Yes, strip malls, and many commercial buildings have flat roofs, but I'm not sure the argument holds one way or the other. How many flat roofs are at Big Sky for example?

The argument can be that these were older buildings that have lived a life that when stressed at this level are under serious jeopardy. The point I am asking is, (and I know I posted that flat roofs can handle loads like this), that is it cost effective one way or the other in light of the fact that we are being told that climate and storms are increasingly not following normal trends? Would it be wise to do what people do who live in high show load zones do...they build with a pitch?
Last edited by catsrback76 on Sun Mar 10, 2019 7:18 am, edited 1 time in total.



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Re: South gym roof collapse

Post by Cataholic » Sun Mar 10, 2019 7:15 am

FTG247365 wrote:
Sat Mar 09, 2019 7:00 pm
AFCAT wrote:
Sat Mar 09, 2019 6:37 pm
FTG247365 wrote:
Sat Mar 09, 2019 5:33 pm
Went to the Wilson School Gym in Bozeman this morning for some YMCA basketball action. I was blown away the gym that was built in 36'-37'(someone correct me if I'm wrong) has a slightly curved roof(positive drainage) , extremely beefy steel truss's, solid concrete walls with windows, has lasted longer than a flat roof building, weird. Why over time did construction get away from the common sense approach and go to the cost savings only approach?
I think you just answered your own question. The reason is money.
Now IF insurance covers the ignorance from the early 70s it won't cover much. MSU still won't build it correctly. Really its 4 walls a roof, they will still find a way too build it with recycled pallets, egg cartons and cricket dung.
Why would insurance not cover much? Each building’s value should be regularly updated on the policy. If we have insurance, the value should be significant. It might not cover replacement value, but the coverage should be enough that replacement can be expected in the near future.



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Re: South gym roof collapse

Post by TomCat88 » Sun Mar 10, 2019 7:30 am

catsrback76 wrote:
Sun Mar 10, 2019 7:07 am
TomCat88 wrote:
Sun Mar 10, 2019 1:22 am
catsrback76 wrote:
Sun Mar 10, 2019 12:52 am
I'm curious how many flat roof designed buildings are in the new plan? 8)
Don’t almost all buildings, aside from churches and home, have flat roofs?
Romney, Brick Breeden, Montana Hall, Lewis, would argue the answer is no. Yes, strip malls, and many commercial buildings have flat roofs, but I'm not sure the argument holds one way or the other. How many flat roofs are at Big Sky for example?

The argument can be that these were older buildings that have lived a life that when stressed at this level are under serious jeopardy. The point I am asking is, (and I know I posted that flat roofs can handle loads like this), that is it cost effective one way or the other in light of the fact that we are being told that climate and storms are increasingly not following normal trends? Would it be wise to do what people do who live in high show load zones do...they build with a pitch?
I didn’t ask, “shouldn’t almost all buildings, aside from churches and homes, have flat roofs?” I asked, “don’t almost all buildings, aside from churches and homes, have flat roofs?”

My observation is that most buildings, aside from churches and homes, do have flat roofs.

Have any other buildings in/around Bozeman had their roofs collapse?


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Re: South gym roof collapse

Post by bertram » Sun Mar 10, 2019 8:53 am

Snow can't melt steel beams. #InsideJob #Cruzado&ConspiracyBothStartWithC



FTG247365
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Re: South gym roof collapse

Post by FTG247365 » Sun Mar 10, 2019 9:59 am

Cataholic wrote:
Sun Mar 10, 2019 7:15 am
FTG247365 wrote:
Sat Mar 09, 2019 7:00 pm
AFCAT wrote:
Sat Mar 09, 2019 6:37 pm
FTG247365 wrote:
Sat Mar 09, 2019 5:33 pm
Went to the Wilson School Gym in Bozeman this morning for some YMCA basketball action. I was blown away the gym that was built in 36'-37'(someone correct me if I'm wrong) has a slightly curved roof(positive drainage) , extremely beefy steel truss's, solid concrete walls with windows, has lasted longer than a flat roof building, weird. Why over time did construction get away from the common sense approach and go to the cost savings only approach?
I think you just answered your own question. The reason is money.
Now IF insurance covers the ignorance from the early 70s it won't cover much. MSU still won't build it correctly. Really its 4 walls a roof, they will still find a way too build it with recycled pallets, egg cartons and cricket dung.
Why would insurance not cover much? Each building’s value should be regularly updated on the policy. If we have insurance, the value should be significant. It might not cover replacement value, but the coverage should be enough that replacement can be expected in the near future.
Those building aren't or weren't worth much @ basically a warehouse used as a gym. My point is I don't think insurance will cover a new building, with the new standards, like steel building, steel trusses, and maybe a pitched roof.



Cataholic
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Re: South gym roof collapse

Post by Cataholic » Sun Mar 10, 2019 10:23 am

FTG247365 wrote:
Sun Mar 10, 2019 9:59 am
Cataholic wrote:
Sun Mar 10, 2019 7:15 am
FTG247365 wrote:
Sat Mar 09, 2019 7:00 pm
AFCAT wrote:
Sat Mar 09, 2019 6:37 pm
FTG247365 wrote:
Sat Mar 09, 2019 5:33 pm
Went to the Wilson School Gym in Bozeman this morning for some YMCA basketball action. I was blown away the gym that was built in 36'-37'(someone correct me if I'm wrong) has a slightly curved roof(positive drainage) , extremely beefy steel truss's, solid concrete walls with windows, has lasted longer than a flat roof building, weird. Why over time did construction get away from the common sense approach and go to the cost savings only approach?
I think you just answered your own question. The reason is money.
Now IF insurance covers the ignorance from the early 70s it won't cover much. MSU still won't build it correctly. Really its 4 walls a roof, they will still find a way too build it with recycled pallets, egg cartons and cricket dung.
Why would insurance not cover much? Each building’s value should be regularly updated on the policy. If we have insurance, the value should be significant. It might not cover replacement value, but the coverage should be enough that replacement can be expected in the near future.
Those building aren't or weren't worth much @ basically a warehouse used as a gym. My point is I don't think insurance will cover a new building, with the new standards, like steel building, steel trusses, and maybe a pitched roof.
Agree that the buildings weren’t worth much, but I am pretty sure a businesses can choose to insure a structure for close to replacement value. The business will have to pay a premium that is adjusted for the amount of increased insurance coverage chosen and the insurance company can also choose to deny the coverage if the building is too much of a potential risk. I am real curious as to how MSU insured the structure. We might even find that there is a large amount of self insurance/deductible with coverage for only large catastrophic losses that cover the campus as a whole.

It is a really interesting question though as it is a state owned building. There may be a level of self insurance at the State level for state owned structures that fail. Can anybody think of a similar instance in the past and how it was handled? Maybe a state owned bridge failure? Can anybody recall a similar event happening at with any Montana university structures and how it was handled?



FTG247365
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Re: South gym roof collapse

Post by FTG247365 » Sun Mar 10, 2019 10:56 am

Cataholic wrote:
Sun Mar 10, 2019 10:23 am
FTG247365 wrote:
Sun Mar 10, 2019 9:59 am
Cataholic wrote:
Sun Mar 10, 2019 7:15 am
FTG247365 wrote:
Sat Mar 09, 2019 7:00 pm
AFCAT wrote:
Sat Mar 09, 2019 6:37 pm
FTG247365 wrote:
Sat Mar 09, 2019 5:33 pm
Went to the Wilson School Gym in Bozeman this morning for some YMCA basketball action. I was blown away the gym that was built in 36'-37'(someone correct me if I'm wrong) has a slightly curved roof(positive drainage) , extremely beefy steel truss's, solid concrete walls with windows, has lasted longer than a flat roof building, weird. Why over time did construction get away from the common sense approach and go to the cost savings only approach?
I think you just answered your own question. The reason is money.
Now IF insurance covers the ignorance from the early 70s it won't cover much. MSU still won't build it correctly. Really its 4 walls a roof, they will still find a way too build it with recycled pallets, egg cartons and cricket dung.
Why would insurance not cover much? Each building’s value should be regularly updated on the policy. If we have insurance, the value should be significant. It might not cover replacement value, but the coverage should be enough that replacement can be expected in the near future.
Those building aren't or weren't worth much @ basically a warehouse used as a gym. My point is I don't think insurance will cover a new building, with the new standards, like steel building, steel trusses, and maybe a pitched roof.
Agree that the buildings weren’t worth much, but I am pretty sure a businesses can choose to insure a structure for close to replacement value. The business will have to pay a premium that is adjusted for the amount of increased insurance coverage chosen and the insurance company can also choose to deny the coverage if the building is too much of a potential risk. I am real curious as to how MSU insured the structure. We might even find that there is a large amount of self insurance/deductible with coverage for only large catastrophic losses that cover the campus as a whole.

It is a really interesting question though as it is a state owned building. There may be a level of self insurance at the State level for state owned structures that fail. Can anybody think of a similar instance in the past and how it was handled? Maybe a state owned bridge failure? Can anybody recall a similar event happening at with any Montana university structures and how it was handled?
Almost certain both gyms will be replaced with 1.5 story parking garages.
I definitely don't understand the insurance world, curious if MSU will use this as a chance to turn this into a positive and build something the they can grow into and will stand fast of time.



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Re: South gym roof collapse

Post by Cat4LifeHouseDivided » Sun Mar 10, 2019 11:10 am

FTG247365 wrote:
Sun Mar 10, 2019 9:59 am
Cataholic wrote:
Sun Mar 10, 2019 7:15 am
FTG247365 wrote:
Sat Mar 09, 2019 7:00 pm
AFCAT wrote:
Sat Mar 09, 2019 6:37 pm
FTG247365 wrote:
Sat Mar 09, 2019 5:33 pm
Went to the Wilson School Gym in Bozeman this morning for some YMCA basketball action. I was blown away the gym that was built in 36'-37'(someone correct me if I'm wrong) has a slightly curved roof(positive drainage) , extremely beefy steel truss's, solid concrete walls with windows, has lasted longer than a flat roof building, weird. Why over time did construction get away from the common sense approach and go to the cost savings only approach?
I think you just answered your own question. The reason is money.
Now IF insurance covers the ignorance from the early 70s it won't cover much. MSU still won't build it correctly. Really its 4 walls a roof, they will still find a way too build it with recycled pallets, egg cartons and cricket dung.
Why would insurance not cover much? Each building’s value should be regularly updated on the policy. If we have insurance, the value should be significant. It might not cover replacement value, but the coverage should be enough that replacement can be expected in the near future.
Those building aren't or weren't worth much @ basically a warehouse used as a gym. My point is I don't think insurance will cover a new building, with the new standards, like steel building, steel trusses, and maybe a pitched roof.
You have zero clue as to what you are talking about. Polson is going through something similar. 1940s gym roof collapsed due to snow. Travelers Insurance to replace with like new structure at todays rates. Probably be in the 3-4 mil range.



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