We need a longer measuring stick!

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CARDIAC_CATS
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Re: We need a longer measuring stick!

Post by CARDIAC_CATS » Sun Dec 02, 2018 9:17 am

RobertoGato wrote:
Sat Dec 01, 2018 11:06 pm
technoCat wrote:
Sat Dec 01, 2018 10:12 pm
It's kinda hard to measure the growth this year. When we played well we were dominant but we would also have long periods of mediocrity. Does a new QB and speed at lb fix all our problems? Probably not but it would help clarify where we are in this rebuild. Hope the guys get healed up quick and get in the weight room. Next season starts on Monday.
It would seem to me that the Cats are in a 3rd tier of FCS programs at the moment.

NDSU is a top tier unto themselves. They smoked us.

EWU, WBU, SDSU, and the like are a 2nd tier. We were competitive with teams like these to varying degrees, but ultimately lost to them both this season and last.

The 3rd tier are PO bubble programs. Winning records, some make it into the tournament and others do not.

So the question is whether they can take a step up from being good enough to make it in to being good enough to make a run. I would think they have a great shot at it. The trajectory (4-7 > 5-6 > 8-5) is promising.
Another good stat to note which is promising:

EW 6-0 Home (Playoffs)
Weber 6-0 Home (Playoffs)
UC Davis 6-0 Home (Playoffs)
MSU 5-1 Home (Playoffs)

Defend your home field!

Griz 3-3 Home (Home eating turkey :lol: :lol: )



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Re: We need a longer measuring stick!

Post by onceacat » Sun Dec 02, 2018 9:38 am

CARDIAC_CATS wrote:
Sun Dec 02, 2018 9:14 am
onceacat wrote:
Sat Dec 01, 2018 10:20 pm
technoCat wrote:
Sat Dec 01, 2018 10:12 pm
It's kinda hard to measure the growth this year. When we played well we were dominant but we would also have long periods of mediocrity. Does a new QB and speed at lb fix all our problems? Probably not but it would help clarify where we are in this rebuild. Hope the guys get healed up quick and get in the weight room. Next season starts on Monday.
The thing that’s been frustrating for me is that last year we played elite teams really tough. (SDSU, EWU, WSU, KSU), this year elite teams blew us out. I’m struggling to see that as growth.
Losing Mac really hurt this year (and Hill). He could blow up a lot of the short pass and jet sweep type plays that killed us this year. NDSU could have ran the Jet Sweep the whole game and gotten 7-8 yards on it for how far back the CB/LB's were back from the line of scrimmage. I've heard of a cushion but that was a cushion (and yes I know why they were doing it, keep everything in front). You won't beat NDSU using that D scheme though, it just slows down their scoring onslaught about 25%.
Maybe NDSU didn’t run that jet sweep because they averaged 9 yards per carry running power.



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Re: We need a longer measuring stick!

Post by CARDIAC_CATS » Sun Dec 02, 2018 9:52 am

onceacat wrote:
Sun Dec 02, 2018 9:38 am
CARDIAC_CATS wrote:
Sun Dec 02, 2018 9:14 am
onceacat wrote:
Sat Dec 01, 2018 10:20 pm
technoCat wrote:
Sat Dec 01, 2018 10:12 pm
It's kinda hard to measure the growth this year. When we played well we were dominant but we would also have long periods of mediocrity. Does a new QB and speed at lb fix all our problems? Probably not but it would help clarify where we are in this rebuild. Hope the guys get healed up quick and get in the weight room. Next season starts on Monday.
The thing that’s been frustrating for me is that last year we played elite teams really tough. (SDSU, EWU, WSU, KSU), this year elite teams blew us out. I’m struggling to see that as growth.
Losing Mac really hurt this year (and Hill). He could blow up a lot of the short pass and jet sweep type plays that killed us this year. NDSU could have ran the Jet Sweep the whole game and gotten 7-8 yards on it for how far back the CB/LB's were back from the line of scrimmage. I've heard of a cushion but that was a cushion (and yes I know why they were doing it, keep everything in front). You won't beat NDSU using that D scheme though, it just slows down their scoring onslaught about 25%.
Maybe NDSU didn’t run that jet sweep because they averaged 9 yards per carry running power.
My 7-8 yards estimate was being conservative :). It was nice to see some run blitzing in the third quarter, but by then it was too late (not that it would have mattered though). NDSU is just a machine on both lines. They out athlete you (and power) at every level. Like coach Choate said, it is a good measuring stick of what they need to get to. NDSU has such an awesome recruiting advantage now it is hard for teams to get up to their level.



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Re: We need a longer measuring stick!

Post by CatsNoMatterWhat » Sun Dec 02, 2018 9:56 am

RobertoGato wrote:
Sat Dec 01, 2018 11:06 pm
technoCat wrote:
Sat Dec 01, 2018 10:12 pm
It's kinda hard to measure the growth this year. When we played well we were dominant but we would also have long periods of mediocrity. Does a new QB and speed at lb fix all our problems? Probably not but it would help clarify where we are in this rebuild. Hope the guys get healed up quick and get in the weight room. Next season starts on Monday.
It would seem to me that the Cats are in a 3rd tier of FCS programs at the moment.

NDSU is a top tier unto themselves. They smoked us.

EWU, WBU, SDSU, and the like are a 2nd tier. We were competitive with teams like these to varying degrees, but ultimately lost to them both this season and last.

The 3rd tier are PO bubble programs. Winning records, some make it into the tournament and others do not.

So the question is whether they can take a step up from being good enough to make it in to being good enough to make a run. I would think they have a great shot at it. The trajectory (4-7 > 5-6 > 8-5) is promising.
I just can't get myself to agree with this post. I've read it 3 times over the last 24 hours and can't get on board.

I'm 100% with you RE: NDSU being in a class by itself. They should move up. They would win the Mountain West TODAY. They'd be a 5-6 win Big 10 team. Can't compare them to anybody in the FCS. BUT...

MSU is certainly in a tier with EWU, WBU, and SDSU. We are man. This team got executed by the playoff committee (and rightfully so) because we were one of the last teams in. Playing NDSU--at home-- in the 2nd round is an execution. How brackets are designed. We weren't a bracket buster. But I'd also argue the following things:

1: NDSU was winning that game today regardless of who they were paired with
2: There are a lot of teams in the bracket we could have run with

The point is, we're a GOOD football team. We have developed into a very respectable opponent. Nobody REALLY wants to play us. We are for sure in the 2nd tier, which is ACTUALLY the 1st tier because NDSU doesn't count. They're out of everybody's league. The CATS are back man. Also (and I'll catch heck for this), watch out, the GRIZ are going to be back also. We're back to Montana mattering in the FCS conversation.

The best,

CNMW



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Re: We need a longer measuring stick!

Post by TomCat88 » Sun Dec 02, 2018 10:03 am

onceacat wrote:
Sat Dec 01, 2018 10:20 pm
technoCat wrote:
Sat Dec 01, 2018 10:12 pm
It's kinda hard to measure the growth this year. When we played well we were dominant but we would also have long periods of mediocrity. Does a new QB and speed at lb fix all our problems? Probably not but it would help clarify where we are in this rebuild. Hope the guys get healed up quick and get in the weight room. Next season starts on Monday.
The thing that’s been frustrating for me is that last year we played elite teams really tough. (SDSU, EWU, WSU, KSU), this year elite teams blew us out. I’m struggling to see that as growth.
Two elite teams blew MSU out this year. I think that NDSU will probably blow everyone out. I also think this is the best team they've had during their incredible run. The other blew MSU out with MSU playing essentially a third string QB in his first start with MSU's most effective player out.


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Re: We need a longer measuring stick!

Post by onceacat » Sun Dec 02, 2018 10:23 am

CatsNoMatterWhat wrote:
Sun Dec 02, 2018 9:56 am
RobertoGato wrote:
Sat Dec 01, 2018 11:06 pm
technoCat wrote:
Sat Dec 01, 2018 10:12 pm
It's kinda hard to measure the growth this year. When we played well we were dominant but we would also have long periods of mediocrity. Does a new QB and speed at lb fix all our problems? Probably not but it would help clarify where we are in this rebuild. Hope the guys get healed up quick and get in the weight room. Next season starts on Monday.
It would seem to me that the Cats are in a 3rd tier of FCS programs at the moment.

NDSU is a top tier unto themselves. They smoked us.

EWU, WBU, SDSU, and the like are a 2nd tier. We were competitive with teams like these to varying degrees, but ultimately lost to them both this season and last.

The 3rd tier are PO bubble programs. Winning records, some make it into the tournament and others do not.

So the question is whether they can take a step up from being good enough to make it in to being good enough to make a run. I would think they have a great shot at it. The trajectory (4-7 > 5-6 > 8-5) is promising.
I just can't get myself to agree with this post. I've read it 3 times over the last 24 hours and can't get on board.

I'm 100% with you RE: NDSU being in a class by itself. They should move up. They would win the Mountain West TODAY. They'd be a 5-6 win Big 10 team. Can't compare them to anybody in the FCS. BUT...

MSU is certainly in a tier with EWU, WBU, and SDSU. We are man. This team got executed by the playoff committee (and rightfully so) because we were one of the last teams in. Playing NDSU--at home-- in the 2nd round is an execution. How brackets are designed. We weren't a bracket buster. But I'd also argue the following things:

1: NDSU was winning that game today regardless of who they were paired with
2: There are a lot of teams in the bracket we could have run with

The point is, we're a GOOD football team. We have developed into a very respectable opponent. Nobody REALLY wants to play us. We are for sure in the 2nd tier, which is ACTUALLY the 1st tier because NDSU doesn't count. They're out of everybody's league. The CATS are back man. Also (and I'll catch heck for this), watch out, the GRIZ are going to be back also. We're back to Montana mattering in the FCS conversation.

The best,

CNMW
I think it’s hard to believe we are in the second tier when every single first tier team crushed us by between 2-4 scores. (We sort of hung around Weebs, but they dominated us in the 4th). Do we get not the first tier with a passing threat? Maybe. I’m not for sure yet...

I don’t think NDSU is blowing out EWU or WSU by 42 points.

I said before the game, and I don’t like changing my position to justify a pretty embarassing blowout-this team is on track if we can keep the game competitive, meaning 2 scores.

I’m finding our inability to compete with the second tier incredibly frustrating.



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Re: We need a longer measuring stick!

Post by Hawks86 » Sun Dec 02, 2018 10:30 am

onceacat wrote:
Sun Dec 02, 2018 10:23 am

I think it’s hard to believe we are in the second tier when every single first tier team crushed us by between 2-4 scores. (We sort of hung around Weebs, but they dominated us in the 4th). Do we get not the first tier with a passing threat? Maybe. I’m not for sure yet...

I don’t think NDSU is blowing out EWU or WSU by 42 points.

I said before the game, and I don’t like changing my position to justify a pretty embarassing blowout-this team is on track if we can keep the game competitive, meaning 2 scores.

I’m finding our inability to compete with the second tier incredibly frustrating.
You are frustrated and struggle to see growth yet predict 11-1/-9-3 next year?


"I'm a Bobcat forever its in my soul..."

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Re: We need a longer measuring stick!

Post by onceacat » Sun Dec 02, 2018 10:58 am

Hawks86 wrote:
Sun Dec 02, 2018 10:30 am
onceacat wrote:
Sun Dec 02, 2018 10:23 am

I think it’s hard to believe we are in the second tier when every single first tier team crushed us by between 2-4 scores. (We sort of hung around Weebs, but they dominated us in the 4th). Do we get not the first tier with a passing threat? Maybe. I’m not for sure yet...

I don’t think NDSU is blowing out EWU or WSU by 42 points.

I said before the game, and I don’t like changing my position to justify a pretty embarassing blowout-this team is on track if we can keep the game competitive, meaning 2 scores.

I’m finding our inability to compete with the second tier incredibly frustrating.
You are frustrated and struggle to see growth yet predict 11-1/-9-3 next year?
As of right now, our schedule looks really easy. Other than Tech & SEMO...



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Re: We need a longer measuring stick!

Post by TomCat88 » Sun Dec 02, 2018 11:13 am

onceacat,
How may tiers are there? MSU just made it to the final 16. Were there teams in the first round that are better than MSU? Probably. Are there other teams in the second round that MSU would've beat? Probably. So you're left with what's probably at a team that sits around #15 in the nation. If NDSU is in a tier all alone, then I'd agree that MSU is in the third tier and that there's about 8-10 tiers. In that case I would say there's just a small tweak between each tier and, if so, the third tier is pretty good.


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Re: We need a longer measuring stick!

Post by bobcat99 » Sun Dec 02, 2018 11:16 am

onceacat wrote:
Sun Dec 02, 2018 10:23 am
CatsNoMatterWhat wrote:
Sun Dec 02, 2018 9:56 am
RobertoGato wrote:
Sat Dec 01, 2018 11:06 pm
technoCat wrote:
Sat Dec 01, 2018 10:12 pm
It's kinda hard to measure the growth this year. When we played well we were dominant but we would also have long periods of mediocrity. Does a new QB and speed at lb fix all our problems? Probably not but it would help clarify where we are in this rebuild. Hope the guys get healed up quick and get in the weight room. Next season starts on Monday.
It would seem to me that the Cats are in a 3rd tier of FCS programs at the moment.

NDSU is a top tier unto themselves. They smoked us.

EWU, WBU, SDSU, and the like are a 2nd tier. We were competitive with teams like these to varying degrees, but ultimately lost to them both this season and last.

The 3rd tier are PO bubble programs. Winning records, some make it into the tournament and others do not.

So the question is whether they can take a step up from being good enough to make it in to being good enough to make a run. I would think they have a great shot at it. The trajectory (4-7 > 5-6 > 8-5) is promising.
I just can't get myself to agree with this post. I've read it 3 times over the last 24 hours and can't get on board.

I'm 100% with you RE: NDSU being in a class by itself. They should move up. They would win the Mountain West TODAY. They'd be a 5-6 win Big 10 team. Can't compare them to anybody in the FCS. BUT...

MSU is certainly in a tier with EWU, WBU, and SDSU. We are man. This team got executed by the playoff committee (and rightfully so) because we were one of the last teams in. Playing NDSU--at home-- in the 2nd round is an execution. How brackets are designed. We weren't a bracket buster. But I'd also argue the following things:

1: NDSU was winning that game today regardless of who they were paired with
2: There are a lot of teams in the bracket we could have run with

The point is, we're a GOOD football team. We have developed into a very respectable opponent. Nobody REALLY wants to play us. We are for sure in the 2nd tier, which is ACTUALLY the 1st tier because NDSU doesn't count. They're out of everybody's league. The CATS are back man. Also (and I'll catch heck for this), watch out, the GRIZ are going to be back also. We're back to Montana mattering in the FCS conversation.

The best,

CNMW
I think it’s hard to believe we are in the second tier when every single first tier team crushed us by between 2-4 scores. (We sort of hung around Weebs, but they dominated us in the 4th). Do we get not the first tier with a passing threat? Maybe. I’m not for sure yet...

I don’t think NDSU is blowing out EWU or WSU by 42 points.

I said before the game, and I don’t like changing my position to justify a pretty embarassing blowout-this team is on track if we can keep the game competitive, meaning 2 scores.

I’m finding our inability to compete with the second tier incredibly frustrating.
We sort of hung around with Weber? We were winning the damn game. Without an actual QB. We weren't blown out by Weber, we lost by 10 points to a good team, and we didn't have a QB. Think of what a passing threat actually does to our offense. Recall the Wagner game? And I know, Wagner wasn't very good, but the passing threat opened up the running game. We didn't have that for basically any game this year, and that makes a profound difference to an offense.

This team is a BSC contender with an average passing QB. Just average. With a good QB, we're a good playoff team. We're probably not going to beat a team like NDSU, and that's understandable. They're an anomaly, and will be until they move up.



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Re: We need a longer measuring stick!

Post by JimboCat » Sun Dec 02, 2018 11:32 am

I agree on the tiers.

1) NDSU
2) great teams, playoff seed potential (9-10 wins) (could be 8 wins if playing some FBS games)
3) playoff potential (7-8 wins) (could be 6 wins with FBS games or tough schedule, UNI this year)
4) average to below average teams (4-6)
5) non competitive teams (0-3 wins)



Next year we are moving up to the 2nd tier, Playoff seed potential.



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Re: We need a longer measuring stick!

Post by HelenaCat95 » Sun Dec 02, 2018 11:34 am

In any discussion of how we measure up to NDSU (talent, size, experience, coaching, etc.) we need to also look at the macro level.

Facilities and Full Cost Of Attendance (I'm pretty sure NDSU provides this). Until MSU (or anyone else) develops the facilities like NDSU, and FCOA, we cannot compete with their consistent success.
Let's start with facilities.



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Re: We need a longer measuring stick!

Post by bobcat99 » Sun Dec 02, 2018 11:34 am

With all that said, NDSU exposed a lot of weaknesses.

I did not expect to compete with NDSU. They had 24 seniors, an NFL QB, an NFL LB, and they've won the natty 4 or 5 years in a row. We aren't on that level. I figured we'd lose by 30-40 depending on how mad they still were about the buyout. It was expected. But...there were some good things! Also some bad things, obviously.

The Good:

Obvious proof that Andersen is an elite player that can compete very well with the best of the best. He was all we had, they knew it, and they still couldn't shut him down.

There were moments where our players were in good position, they just didn't finish. So they've got half the battle down, need to complete the rest.

Ifanse had a few good runs, and didn't look overly overmatched considering the team they played.

It was really good to have Josh Hill back. He's a heck of a player.

The Bad:

We really, really, really need speed at LB. I hope some of you can see now why I've been harping on that all year. Right from the start they went after the edge that we haven't been able to hold all year, and they busted those gaps. Our guys couldn't get there in time. Our DB's need to tackle better, especially Filer. He's good in coverage, but he's gotta shore up his tackling. Same with Alleyne.

Our OL needs to step up. That was a very tough matchup, but they have to do better. They're a good BSC OL, but we need to be better if we want to compete at the big stage.

I think this game really showed why we need a passing QB. Our offense is one dimensional, and we tried to dress it up as much as possible, so credit to Miller (and Andersen for his vast improvement over the year), but there's only so much we could do. I like some of the young QB's on the team, but I would feel better with an established transfer QB coming in. We're going to have a deep, veteran team next year, and we need a QB to match that.



With all that said, we had a good year! I would not have expected us to do as well as we did at the halfway point of the year. I mean, we made the 2nd round of the playoffs with a RB at QB. That's impressive. Don't get too down about the NDSU game. They're a special team. Nobody is beating them this year, nobody. I think our future looks bright, I like what Choate and Co are building here, and it's on to recruiting and gym season!



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Re: We need a longer measuring stick!

Post by bobcat99 » Sun Dec 02, 2018 11:36 am

HelenaCat95 wrote:
Sun Dec 02, 2018 11:34 am
In any discussion of how we measure up to NDSU (talent, size, experience, coaching, etc.) we need to also look at the macro level.

Facilities and Full Cost Of Attendance (I'm pretty sure NDSU provides this). Until MSU (or anyone else) develops the facilities like NDSU, and FCOA, we cannot compete with their consistent success.
Let's start with facilities.
We won't ever have facilities like them, and FCOA is unlikely as well, but more likely than getting facilities like NDSU.

Hopefully NDSU moves up soon, they've done all they can at this level.



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Re: We need a longer measuring stick!

Post by onceacat » Sun Dec 02, 2018 12:35 pm

TomCat88 wrote:
Sun Dec 02, 2018 11:13 am
onceacat,
How may tiers are there? MSU just made it to the final 16. Were there teams in the first round that are better than MSU? Probably. Are there other teams in the second round that MSU would've beat? Probably. So you're left with what's probably at a team that sits around #15 in the nation. If NDSU is in a tier all alone, then I'd agree that MSU is in the third tier and that there's about 8-10 tiers. In that case I would say there's just a small tweak between each tier and, if so, the third tier is pretty good.
I think that's about right. We'd be in that third tier. I'd expect us to start the season ranked somewhere around #15. But I think I'm seeing a much bigger jump between those two tiers than others here.

We lost 3 games to the tier 2 teams, the closest by 2 scores. That seems like a big step to me.

We went 2-1 against the tier 3 teams, with the Griz game being decided by a missed 40 yard field goal.

We went 4-0 (or so) against the tier 4, but 2 of those were because they missed field goals. Thats a little too close for my liking.

When I put that together, that means we are somewhere in the middle of tier 3. Not bad, but not great either.

Does fixing the QB problem get us into tier 2? I'm not totally sure.



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Re: We need a longer measuring stick!

Post by coloradocat » Sun Dec 02, 2018 1:13 pm

onceacat wrote:
Sun Dec 02, 2018 12:35 pm
TomCat88 wrote:
Sun Dec 02, 2018 11:13 am
onceacat,
How may tiers are there? MSU just made it to the final 16. Were there teams in the first round that are better than MSU? Probably. Are there other teams in the second round that MSU would've beat? Probably. So you're left with what's probably at a team that sits around #15 in the nation. If NDSU is in a tier all alone, then I'd agree that MSU is in the third tier and that there's about 8-10 tiers. In that case I would say there's just a small tweak between each tier and, if so, the third tier is pretty good.
I think that's about right. We'd be in that third tier. I'd expect us to start the season ranked somewhere around #15. But I think I'm seeing a much bigger jump between those two tiers than others here.

We lost 3 games to the tier 2 teams, the closest by 2 scores. That seems like a big step to me.

We went 2-1 against the tier 3 teams, with the Griz game being decided by a missed 40 yard field goal.

We went 4-0 (or so) against the tier 4, but 2 of those were because they missed field goals. Thats a little too close for my liking.

When I put that together, that means we are somewhere in the middle of tier 3. Not bad, but not great either.

Does fixing the QB problem get us into tier 2? I'm not totally sure.
I agree that we're in Tier 3. You can't say we're in the same tier as a bunch of teams that we played and lost every game to over the last two years. I dont' care how close we were at certain points in the games. We lost. I expect us to be in Tier 2 by the end of next year but we're not there yet.


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Re: We need a longer measuring stick!

Post by Cat Grad » Sun Dec 02, 2018 1:33 pm

Dang! I intend to be at John's Pass Village and Boardwark in Tampa later this month and I'm not certain which pier we're supposed to get together to go catch some decent fish. It seems to me the first three piers all all private and each one of those boats cost several million dollars. Most of the SEC coaching staffs are going to be on the first pier but they just talk football continually. Way down, all the Southern Conference coaches go out on charters but just for the day.

My kids are going skiing and snowboarding at Bridger but us old folks are going to Big Sky and a couple of the wives may go up on the slopes for the day but most of them are just going to go to the salons. Their sisters and cousins from North Dakota got entire suites to stay in while the kids who go up to Bridger Bowl are staying at the Holiday Inn by the Walmart on North Seventh and hope to catch the ski bus up to the lifts.



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Re: We need a longer measuring stick!

Post by Joe Bobcat » Sun Dec 02, 2018 1:42 pm

onceacat wrote:
Sat Dec 01, 2018 10:09 pm
RobertoGato wrote:
Sat Dec 01, 2018 9:30 pm
AFCAT wrote:
Sat Dec 01, 2018 9:27 pm
RobertoGato wrote:
Sat Dec 01, 2018 8:34 pm
It's a shame that some Cat fans convinced themselves that they would win today. They created unrealistic expectations and thus, disappointment. This was a good season and a step in the right direction. But MSU has proven at every opportunity that they aren't ready for the blue bloods.
It a “shame” that some Fans had high expectations and thought Cats would win today? That’s an interesting statement. :-s
Not so much the optimism, but more that-- for some-- their unrealistic expectations led to them being severely disappointed at the end of a pretty successful season. I guess I just think people should have seen this coming.
I don’t think many folks thought the Cats were going to pull this out. I do think there was a strong sense that the Cats would be a tough opponent, maybe beat the spread. Not look like we were playing a top 10 FBS school.
RGato I have interacted face to face with at least 100 different Cat fans since our loss to ndsu and not a single one even comes close to your description. Among that group were many who predicted a Cat win by a point or a very few points, me included. As for my prediction it was based almost solely on what I wanted to happen and not at all on some conviction or confidence of what would happen. I don't personally know anyone whose disappointment (note not severe) in how bad our loss was, appreciably changed their opinion on how successful our overall season was.


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Re: We need a longer measuring stick!

Post by KittieKop » Sun Dec 02, 2018 2:05 pm

I will agree that MSU is on the track to being back, and that they were the 4th place team in the Big Sky shows about where I think they are - upper mid-pack. Compete with most of the "best" but not ready to beat them. Yet.

One thing to stop is qualifying where MSU stands because they don't have a QB. "If we had a QB then...." Lacking a true quarterback, and I've said this over and over and been castigated for it, is THE biggest failure of this staff. It's not due to a broken foot or bad luck. There's zero reason to be stuck without someone in that position. Going now into year 4, that needs fixed. Now. If TA is back next year at QB, we have a problem.

That said, MSU had an amazingly good season basically missing a lynchpin to an offense. They did well for what they had, but many of the struggles were exactly due to not having A QB on the field. And that's on the staff, not the players.


"It was like a coordinated effort by the Missoulian and the police to bring UM Football program down..." eGriz 11/30/12

Now where did I leave my tinfoil hat?

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onceacat
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Re: We need a longer measuring stick!

Post by onceacat » Sun Dec 02, 2018 2:38 pm

KittieKop wrote:
Sun Dec 02, 2018 2:05 pm
I will agree that MSU is on the track to being back, and that they were the 4th place team in the Big Sky shows about where I think they are - upper mid-pack. Compete with most of the "best" but not ready to beat them. Yet.

One thing to stop is qualifying where MSU stands because they don't have a QB. "If we had a QB then...." Lacking a true quarterback, and I've said this over and over and been castigated for it, is THE biggest failure of this staff. It's not due to a broken foot or bad luck. There's zero reason to be stuck without someone in that position. Going now into year 4, that needs fixed. Now. If TA is back next year at QB, we have a problem.

That said, MSU had an amazingly good season basically missing a lynchpin to an offense. They did well for what they had, but many of the struggles were exactly due to not having A QB on the field. And that's on the staff, not the players.
I think that's what I've been trying to say, and coming across as overly negative. This is not a bad team, by any stretch. It is also a long way from being a great team, and I fundamentally believe that Choate was hired to take this team from "good" to "great".

I think that's been accomplished on D. I also think he's instilled a much better culture in the program than we had in the past, and I think the entire staff needs to be applauded for doing that. I think a big congratulations is in order to making the playoffs after a 4 year drought.

But I think there are a few big time red flags looking at next year.

1) The QB situation: This staff walked into a QB disaster on day 1 with Prukop & Hoy leaving and no real recruits in the wings. I don't really think Murray was recruited as a QB...I'm guessing Cramsey had him pegged as an 'athlete' that would find a niche due to his off the charts athleticism. And I do think the staff has worked hard to recruit both high school studs (Bauman & Rovig sure looked like GREAT recruits) and two 4 star dropdown/transfers. Some bad luck & circumstances, to be sure, but now we are looking at Year 4 with 5 scholarship QBs on the roster and we are STILL crossing our fingers hoping to get the guy that Bobby Hauck sent packing (BTW, I think Gresh is a total stud and wanted him the instant he left the Griz). Desperately hoping for a transfer to fix your QB problem in year 4 is a big problem, and at some point, you have to stop blaming luck and hold some people accountable for the lack of production at that position.

2) "Look how young our roster is": Totally true, but also a bit of a red flag. It makes sense that a bunch of guys would leave during the transition, but in Year 4, the team is basically at 90% Choate recruits. I agree that its a super young team, but it was also a young team last year, and a young team the year before that. (The year before that, when Ash got fired, I think there were 3 Freshmen starting on the D-line). At some point, just like at QB, fans should start questioning this rationale.

3) Close games: All sports take a bit of luck in order to have great seasons. If you look at last year, the ball bounced the wrong way in a few games (SDSU, WSU, NAU, KSU, EWU) and we lost to really good teams because of some bad breaks. If 5-7 plays go differently, the Cats could have been 9 or 10 win team. As a fan, that doesn't really bother me, it makes me think the team is on the cusp of something great. Fast forward to this year and 3 mediocre teams missed easy field goals (UM, WIU, UI) that would have given them the win. So, with some lucky breaks, the Cats hit 7 wins. If those 3 kickers hit, we are looking at a 4-7 record. Don't get me wrong, a win is a win and good teams deserve some of that "luck"...but teams usually revert to the mean when it comes to lucky bounces, and good teams rely less on luck and more on making sure that they dominate for 4 quarters so that luck doesn't ply into things. So I'm really cautious about reading too much into our 7-4 record given how close it was to 4-7.

4) Three offensive co-ordinators in 3 years. Maybe a new one next year, maybe not. Enough said.

I apologize for coming off as a nattering nabob of negativity. This was a solid season-I would say "average" for the Cats over the last 15 or so years. Really like the kids, really like the coaches, really like the intensity that they bring to the game. I had a really fun time watching them this season. I'm hoping that my red flags are total non-issues and they get 100% cleared up before next season.

Go Cats!



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