Wagner

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mtgrizfankb
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Re: Wagner

Post by mtgrizfankb » Tue Sep 11, 2018 1:09 pm

Helcat72 wrote:
Mon Sep 10, 2018 7:03 pm
You can watch Wagner play Syracuse on Watch ESPN. They have tall receivers, some decent linemen LB's and DB's, but not much depth.

Syracuse got some breaks early (TO's, big plays, field position), but Wagner played with them for a half and then ran out of gas...kind of like we did with SDSU.
Wagner was down 45-7 at half, Cats were down 24-0 at half. neither were playing with anyone. Cats should roll this week somewhere in the 35-10 range.



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Re: Wagner

Post by CelticCat » Tue Sep 11, 2018 1:25 pm

The coaches have a pretty serious question to answer for this game - who do we want to be on offense.

Do we go back to what we've done, a running QB system who hopefully can start to beat defense a bit with his arm. Because our running game is going to get stuffed until someone can pass the damn ball.

Or do we just switch gears, reset and go with Rovig and try to become a more balanced, dynamic offense and let Troy loose somewhere else.

I'm worried we are going to look exactly like we did against WIU, which will probably be enough to win, but not solve any problems we have.


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Re: Wagner

Post by CARDIAC_CATS » Tue Sep 11, 2018 1:44 pm

CelticCat wrote:
Tue Sep 11, 2018 1:25 pm
The coaches have a pretty serious question to answer for this game - who do we want to be on offense.

Do we go back to what we've done, a running QB system who hopefully can start to beat defense a bit with his arm. Because our running game is going to get stuffed until someone can pass the damn ball.

Or do we just switch gears, reset and go with Rovig and try to become a more balanced, dynamic offense and let Troy loose somewhere else.

I'm worried we are going to look exactly like we did against WIU, which will probably be enough to win, but not solve any problems we have.
I almost say roll with Rovig and put TA back at LB. That sack of his was a thing of beauty and boy does he give our D more teeth. He cut across that left side of the line and throttled up fast to the QB! They will have to do protection adjustments to account for that and that will make it easier on the front 4 guys. I would think we could run TA at both RB and LB spots while Rovig breaks in. Rovig actually reminds me of Cole Berquist when he first played for the Griz. I didn't see a lot of command and arm strength initially but he broke in and actually became a very good QB for the Griz. I see that in Rovig as well if he works at the position to get better (I have not seen Bauman throw so I am not including him right now as it sounds like he may not be ready from the X-O and scheme standpoint just yet).



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Re: Wagner

Post by mtdoc » Tue Sep 11, 2018 2:30 pm

5dimes, an overseas sport betting book, has the CATS as 21.5 point favorites over Wagner.
um is 6.5 point dogs over at W. Illinois. I'm a little surprised they are such a big underdog but they will have a tough time blocking that dline.



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Re: Wagner

Post by DriscollCat » Tue Sep 11, 2018 2:38 pm

mtdoc wrote:
Tue Sep 11, 2018 2:30 pm
5dimes, an overseas sport betting book, has the CATS as 21.5 point favorites over Wagner.
um is 6.5 point dogs over at W. Illinois. I'm a little surprised they are such a big underdog but they will have a tough time blocking that dline.
Yeah, oddly, they didn’t really block them in the Drake game. I mean that literally too. If you listen to Tootel and Nuanez, Colter saw what I saw, which was virtually every pass play was a scramble and the only real successful run play was on a broken play, where the snap was muffed and Eastwood found a different hole.

So, somehow they were successful without much out of the o line last week. We’ll see what kind of difference a better d line makes against them. Who knows.



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Re: Wagner

Post by 91catAlum » Tue Sep 11, 2018 3:21 pm

DriscollCat wrote:
Tue Sep 11, 2018 2:38 pm
mtdoc wrote:
Tue Sep 11, 2018 2:30 pm
5dimes, an overseas sport betting book, has the CATS as 21.5 point favorites over Wagner.
um is 6.5 point dogs over at W. Illinois. I'm a little surprised they are such a big underdog but they will have a tough time blocking that dline.
Yeah, oddly, they didn’t really block them in the Drake game. I mean that literally too. If you listen to Tootel and Nuanez, Colter saw what I saw, which was virtually every pass play was a scramble and the only real successful run play was on a broken play, where the snap was muffed and Eastwood found a different hole.

So, somehow they were successful without much out of the o line last week. We’ll see what kind of difference a better d line makes against them. Who knows.
I believe they get Jeremy Calhoun back from suspension this week, so he might be some help to them. But without much blocking, who knows.


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Re: Wagner

Post by DriscollCat » Tue Sep 11, 2018 3:26 pm

91catAlum wrote:
Tue Sep 11, 2018 3:21 pm
DriscollCat wrote:
Tue Sep 11, 2018 2:38 pm
mtdoc wrote:
Tue Sep 11, 2018 2:30 pm
5dimes, an overseas sport betting book, has the CATS as 21.5 point favorites over Wagner.
um is 6.5 point dogs over at W. Illinois. I'm a little surprised they are such a big underdog but they will have a tough time blocking that dline.
Yeah, oddly, they didn’t really block them in the Drake game. I mean that literally too. If you listen to Tootel and Nuanez, Colter saw what I saw, which was virtually every pass play was a scramble and the only real successful run play was on a broken play, where the snap was muffed and Eastwood found a different hole.

So, somehow they were successful without much out of the o line last week. We’ll see what kind of difference a better d line makes against them. Who knows.
I believe they get Jeremy Calhoun back from suspension this week, so he might be some help to them. But without much blocking, who knows.
I think a lot of people are thinking that he is behind Eastwood in the depth chart anyway. There is also talk that he has to "earn his way back" onto the team. In any case, he might not fare any better than Eastwood. Maybe he is at least able to give him a breath, but I just don't think the running game is going to be a big part of the griz game plan.



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Re: Wagner

Post by CelticCat » Tue Sep 11, 2018 3:28 pm

The Griz kind of suffer from the same problem we have - it does't matter who is running, there is nowhere to go. In the Griz case it's because the OL is Swiss cheese, in our case it's because we can't throw the ball.


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Re: Wagner

Post by DriscollCat » Tue Sep 11, 2018 3:39 pm

CelticCat wrote:
Tue Sep 11, 2018 3:28 pm
The Griz kind of suffer from the same problem we have - it does't matter who is running, there is nowhere to go. In the Griz case it's because the OL is Swiss cheese, in our case it's because we can't throw the ball.
Yeah, I think that's an apt comparison.



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Re: Wagner

Post by TomCat88 » Tue Sep 11, 2018 4:07 pm

MSU is a run-oriented team. The fact that the RBs have struggled mightily is a big concern going forward. I realize WIU and SDSU were very good in the front seven, but it should be self-evident that MSU's offensive line, with four returning starters and three senior TEs, shouldn't be completely shut down for two straight games on gives to the RBs on running plays.

A lot of talk on here about WRs and QBs, but the biggest disappointment in my opinion has been the OL. What happened? Were WIU and SDSU just that good that were completely able to exploit MSU due to it's inability to either pass in the first half of both games?

Does MSU have a better chance of seeing Andersen expand on his ability to pass the ball like he did first drive of the second half vs. WIU than seeing Rovig develop into a RPO QB?


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Re: Wagner

Post by mtgrizfankb » Tue Sep 11, 2018 4:26 pm

DriscollCat wrote:
Tue Sep 11, 2018 2:38 pm
mtdoc wrote:
Tue Sep 11, 2018 2:30 pm
5dimes, an overseas sport betting book, has the CATS as 21.5 point favorites over Wagner.
um is 6.5 point dogs over at W. Illinois. I'm a little surprised they are such a big underdog but they will have a tough time blocking that dline.
Yeah, oddly, they didn’t really block them in the Drake game. I mean that literally too. If you listen to Tootel and Nuanez, Colter saw what I saw, which was virtually every pass play was a scramble and the only real successful run play was on a broken play, where the snap was muffed and Eastwood found a different hole.

So, somehow they were successful without much out of the o line last week. We’ll see what kind of difference a better d line makes against them. Who knows.
It wasn't a broken play. It was a 4th down, low snap yes but the D was in a all out run blitz. It was either stopped for nothing or a home run because there was 9 in the box. Eastwood went through the designed gap. UNI had what was supposed to be the second best DL in the MVFC. not like UM has not seen good DL. Drake also had a very good and experienced DL. Doesn't really matter as I think any D could get through the Griz OL at this point. only hope for a griz running game is to try and get outside and use speed and WRs to block. That's somewhat what our passing game has been. A ton of RPO and swing passes out the backfield



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Re: Wagner

Post by 91catAlum » Tue Sep 11, 2018 4:29 pm

TomCat88 wrote:
Tue Sep 11, 2018 4:07 pm
MSU is a run-oriented team. The fact that the RBs have struggled mightily is a big concern going forward. I realize WIU and SDSU were very good in the front seven, but it should be self-evident that MSU's offensive line, with four returning starters and three senior TEs, shouldn't be completely shut down for two straight games on gives to the RBs on running plays.

A lot of talk on here about WRs and QBs, but the biggest disappointment in my opinion has been the OL. What happened? Were WIU and SDSU just that good that were completely able to exploit MSU due to it's inability to either pass in the first half of both games?

Does MSU have a better chance of seeing Andersen expand on his ability to pass the ball like he did first drive of the second half vs. WIU than seeing Rovig develop into a RPO QB?
Is it really just the O-line? Or do we also have an issue at RB?

Everybody knew we couldn't throw last year, too - but we still rushed for 250 a game and led the conference, often facing 8-9 men in the box. With 4 of the same 5 guys on the O-line.

Last year, Murray usually ran for 100+ last year, and Lasane often had a big game as well. As did TA.
First game this year, TA managed 130 yards (or whatever it was), but the backs did nothing.
Plug in Rovig, and the backs still do nothing.

I think we're a bit too young at RB, which is why I'd like to see TA move there rather than LB.


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Re: Wagner

Post by bobcatfan4life » Tue Sep 11, 2018 4:34 pm

CelticCat wrote:
Tue Sep 11, 2018 1:25 pm
The coaches have a pretty serious question to answer for this game - who do we want to be on offense.

Do we go back to what we've done, a running QB system who hopefully can start to beat defense a bit with his arm. Because our running game is going to get stuffed until someone can pass the damn ball.

Or do we just switch gears, reset and go with Rovig and try to become a more balanced, dynamic offense and let Troy loose somewhere else.

I'm worried we are going to look exactly like we did against WIU, which will probably be enough to win, but not solve any problems we have.

I was thinking the same thing...who are we on offense? Right now, it seems we are catered to a running QB, such as Chris Murray or Troy Anderson. If the coaches aren't going to change that up, why not actually give Travis a chance at QB? I understand that he has been recovering from an ankle injury, but he is playing full time at receiver, why not try him at QB for more than one play. YOu are changing everything with Tucker because he doesn't run like Troy or Travis, but may have a decent arm.

So my question fo ryou all is this...why not give Travis a shot at QB if you want to stick with having an offenses catered to a running QB? WE know Troy can play other positions but if you arent going to change the offense to cater to Tucker, can it be successful? They had a couple drives where he aired it out and moved it down the field, and than they went back to short passes to the sideline that the defenses know we are going to do. Why not continue throwing it down the field? I know he thew an interception, but it was his first game.

Is Travis the better option if we are sticking with the same offense? Just curious what you think? i know some have ansewred this already but i really am curious why he hasnt really been given a chance at QB



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Re: Wagner

Post by BleedingBLue » Tue Sep 11, 2018 5:00 pm

91catAlum wrote:
Tue Sep 11, 2018 4:29 pm
TomCat88 wrote:
Tue Sep 11, 2018 4:07 pm
MSU is a run-oriented team. The fact that the RBs have struggled mightily is a big concern going forward. I realize WIU and SDSU were very good in the front seven, but it should be self-evident that MSU's offensive line, with four returning starters and three senior TEs, shouldn't be completely shut down for two straight games on gives to the RBs on running plays.

A lot of talk on here about WRs and QBs, but the biggest disappointment in my opinion has been the OL. What happened? Were WIU and SDSU just that good that were completely able to exploit MSU due to it's inability to either pass in the first half of both games?

Does MSU have a better chance of seeing Andersen expand on his ability to pass the ball like he did first drive of the second half vs. WIU than seeing Rovig develop into a RPO QB?
Is it really just the O-line? Or do we also have an issue at RB?

Everybody knew we couldn't throw last year, too - but we still rushed for 250 a game and led the conference, often facing 8-9 men in the box. With 4 of the same 5 guys on the O-line.

Last year, Murray usually ran for 100+ last year, and Lasane often had a big game as well. As did TA.
First game this year, TA managed 130 yards (or whatever it was), but the backs did nothing.
Plug in Rovig, and the backs still do nothing.

I think we're a bit too young at RB, which is why I'd like to see TA move there rather than LB.
I personally think some of it is on the O line and some of it is on the backs. Barkley showed what he can be with the beautiful move on his TD run at SDSU. He saw the hole open up, juked and cut right through it. The problem is that kind of vision isn't being shown consistently from the young backs. There are 2 runs in particular from the WIU game that we got about 3 yards on the run and a hole to the left between Brott and Tui was wide open. Saunders had pushed Neale right and taken on the RG (cant remember who that is) as well. The LBs were flowing toward that side as well and the back still tried to hit the hole that was closing between Neale and RG. A quick cut left would have been a big gain as Tui was blocking a LB down the field and Brott had blown his DE off the line away from the play. There were a couple similar plays with TA on keepers as well, and there were some plays that the line just got pushed back.



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Re: Wagner

Post by Bobcatsinmso » Tue Sep 11, 2018 5:09 pm

bobcatfan4life wrote:
Tue Sep 11, 2018 4:34 pm
CelticCat wrote:
Tue Sep 11, 2018 1:25 pm
The coaches have a pretty serious question to answer for this game - who do we want to be on offense.

Do we go back to what we've done, a running QB system who hopefully can start to beat defense a bit with his arm. Because our running game is going to get stuffed until someone can pass the damn ball.

Or do we just switch gears, reset and go with Rovig and try to become a more balanced, dynamic offense and let Troy loose somewhere else.

I'm worried we are going to look exactly like we did against WIU, which will probably be enough to win, but not solve any problems we have.

I was thinking the same thing...who are we on offense? Right now, it seems we are catered to a running QB, such as Chris Murray or Troy Anderson. If the coaches aren't going to change that up, why not actually give Travis a chance at QB? I understand that he has been recovering from an ankle injury, but he is playing full time at receiver, why not try him at QB for more than one play. YOu are changing everything with Tucker because he doesn't run like Troy or Travis, but may have a decent arm.

So my question fo ryou all is this...why not give Travis a shot at QB if you want to stick with having an offenses catered to a running QB? WE know Troy can play other positions but if you arent going to change the offense to cater to Tucker, can it be successful? They had a couple drives where he aired it out and moved it down the field, and than they went back to short passes to the sideline that the defenses know we are going to do. Why not continue throwing it down the field? I know he thew an interception, but it was his first game.

Is Travis the better option if we are sticking with the same offense? Just curious what you think? i know some have ansewred this already but i really am curious why he hasnt really been given a chance at QB
:goodpost:

I would really like to see TJ get a full quarter or several series, I think his talent set is more suited to QB play. Most certainly there are a lot of fans who would agree.


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Re: Wagner

Post by desmond1957 » Tue Sep 11, 2018 5:11 pm

As mentioned, last year we ran for 250yards/game largely because Murray was one heck of a broken field runner because no one could a clear shot at him. But he's gone for this year and based on how he performed in his first game against the best team we'll face this year IMO Rovig should start, Troy should recuperate.After the asschewing I'm sure the Cats got all week I have no doubt that at the end of this season we'll look back at the Wagner game as the one that turned the season around. I still see at least a 7 win season with a good shot at 8.



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Re: Wagner

Post by TomCat88 » Tue Sep 11, 2018 5:20 pm

91catAlum wrote:
Tue Sep 11, 2018 4:29 pm
TomCat88 wrote:
Tue Sep 11, 2018 4:07 pm
MSU is a run-oriented team. The fact that the RBs have struggled mightily is a big concern going forward. I realize WIU and SDSU were very good in the front seven, but it should be self-evident that MSU's offensive line, with four returning starters and three senior TEs, shouldn't be completely shut down for two straight games on gives to the RBs on running plays.

A lot of talk on here about WRs and QBs, but the biggest disappointment in my opinion has been the OL. What happened? Were WIU and SDSU just that good that were completely able to exploit MSU due to it's inability to either pass in the first half of both games?

Does MSU have a better chance of seeing Andersen expand on his ability to pass the ball like he did first drive of the second half vs. WIU than seeing Rovig develop into a RPO QB?
Is it really just the O-line? Or do we also have an issue at RB?

Everybody knew we couldn't throw last year, too - but we still rushed for 250 a game and led the conference, often facing 8-9 men in the box. With 4 of the same 5 guys on the O-line.

Last year, Murray usually ran for 100+ last year, and Lasane often had a big game as well. As did TA.
First game this year, TA managed 130 yards (or whatever it was), but the backs did nothing.
Plug in Rovig, and the backs still do nothing.

I think we're a bit too young at RB, which is why I'd like to see TA move there rather than LB.
Unless I was just imagining things everyone from Choate, the media, other coaches, fans and dishwashers were commenting on the OL being the one unit on offense that would excel. Even if the RBs are a big drop off from last year, you wouldn’t think it would be this bad.


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Re: Wagner

Post by TomCat88 » Tue Sep 11, 2018 5:23 pm

desmond1957 wrote:
Tue Sep 11, 2018 5:11 pm
As mentioned, last year we ran for 250yards/game largely because Murray was one heck of a broken field runner because no one could a clear shot at him. But he's gone for this year and based on how he performed in his first game against the best team we'll face this year IMO Rovig should start, Troy should recuperate.After the asschewing I'm sure the Cats got all week I have no doubt that at the end of this season we'll look back at the Wagner game as the one that turned the season around. I still see at least a 7 win season with a good shot at 8.
If MSU is going to switch to Rovig at QB, then it's going to take a great effort by the team to shift from a run-oriented team to a much more pass-oriented team. Rovig is not a threat to run the ball. Can he run when it's there? Yes. Can he keep the ball on zone-read and sprint 60 yards for a TD? No. Therefore, Rovig needs to be a strong-armed, dead-eyed passer just for starters, while the offense needs to morph into 50-50 run/pass team that probably runs Power instead of some form of RPO. My head is spinning just writing this down. This also has an affect on the defense.

I'm not a football expert, so please explain to me how MSU goes about doing this or provide some examples of teams successfully shifting from running one style of offense to a completely different style.


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Re: Wagner

Post by kwcat » Tue Sep 11, 2018 5:30 pm

cater to Tucker, can it be successful? They had a couple drives where he aired it out and moved it down the field, and than they went back to short passes to the sideline that the defenses know we are going to do. Why not continue throwing it down the field? I know he thew an interception, but it was his first game.
The ic Tucker threw was a quick out for which the db was looking. He will need to learn to look the dbs off of routes and or learn to pump fake. Haven't seen a qb do this since Prukopl We will see if he gets better Saturday.

TA shouldn't probably even see the field with his injury.



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Re: Wagner

Post by mslacatfan » Tue Sep 11, 2018 5:39 pm

TomCat88 wrote:
Tue Sep 11, 2018 5:23 pm
desmond1957 wrote:
Tue Sep 11, 2018 5:11 pm
As mentioned, last year we ran for 250yards/game largely because Murray was one heck of a broken field runner because no one could a clear shot at him. But he's gone for this year and based on how he performed in his first game against the best team we'll face this year IMO Rovig should start, Troy should recuperate.After the asschewing I'm sure the Cats got all week I have no doubt that at the end of this season we'll look back at the Wagner game as the one that turned the season around. I still see at least a 7 win season with a good shot at 8.
If MSU is going to switch to Rovig at QB, then it's going to take a great effort by the team to shift from a run-oriented team to a much more pass-oriented team. Rovig is not a threat to run the ball. Can he run when it's there? Yes. Can he keep the ball on zone-read and sprint 60 yards for a TD? No. Therefore, Rovig needs to be a strong-armed, dead-eyed passer just for starters, while the offense needs to morph into 50-50 run/pass team that probably runs Power instead of some form of RPO. My head is spinning just writing this down. This also has an affect on the defense.

I'm not a football expert, so please explain to me how MSU goes about doing this or provide some examples of teams successfully shifting from running one style of offense to a completely different style.

Ha. Also to add in to your point. Last game the cats tried to make this switch every couple snaps (not just game to game)....

We will be a passing team for a couple plays with Rovig, then 2 plays later bring in Jonsen and magically change the entire offensive scheme... then switch back immediately to rovig....

Big shocker, but that didn’t work...


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