Is Choate putting to much emphasis on the defense?

[The MICKSTER]

Tough to garner value from conference stats when you don’t play all the teams.

Schedule helps or hurts.


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But they’re more accurate than overall game stats. I’m just saying that teams with offenses like MSU’s can win. Such as WSU. A winning mentality can overcome weaknesses.

When MSU and WSU played it was very close statistically. MSU had a big lead in yards per play as did WSU in first downs. Msu missed two makeable FGs and they were 4-4. MSU committed a roughing the passer penalty when it a chance to get the ball back and take the lead. Down 8 MSU had a would be first down at WSU 37 with one minute to go called back for holding.

Sometimes our run game can be comparable to a good passing game as far as TOP goes.

Take for instance our game against Weber last year. We rushed for 214 yards on just 27 attempts for a whopping average of 7.9 yards per rush. MSU had runs of 41, 48, 43, 20, 17, 24, 18. WSU rushed for just 163 yards on 45 attempts for an average of 3.6 yards per rush. The passing stats were; MSU 9-23-0 for 149 yards; WSU 20-30-2 for 206 yards. Totals Offense was the same, but WSU had 23 first downs to MSU’s 15. The disparity in first downs resulted in a Time of Possession that favored WSU by 2 to 1…..40 minutes to 20 minutes.

When the CATS get in a rhythm and their run game is working, it’s not 3 yards and a cloud of dust. My point being that, at times, the Bobcat rushing attack is so dynamic that it doesn’t provide for an advantage in the TOP battle. It’s kinda counter intuitive…..sometimes you have the best rushing attack on the field, but it doesn’t translate into a grind-it-out game.

WSU led the Conference in TOP, was 4th in yards per rush and was 2nd to last in Total Offense. https://static.bigskyconf.com/custompag ... nfonly.htm

[iaafan]

Yet despite all that MSU was just a couple plays from winning.

[CelticCat]

Tough to garner value from conference stats when you don’t play all the teams.

Schedule helps or hurts.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

But they’re more accurate than overall game stats. I’m just saying that teams with offenses like MSU’s can win. Such as WSU. A winning mentality can overcome weaknesses.

When MSU and WSU played it was very close statistically. MSU had a big lead in yards per play as did WSU in first downs. Msu missed two makeable FGs and they were 4-4. MSU committed a roughing the passer penalty when it a chance to get the ball back and take the lead. Down 8 MSU had a would be first down at WSU 37 with one minute to go called back for holding.

Sometimes our run game can be comparable to a good passing game as far as TOP goes.

Take for instance our game against Weber last year. We rushed for 214 yards on just 27 attempts for a whopping average of 7.9 yards per rush. MSU had runs of 41, 48, 43, 20, 17, 24, 18. WSU rushed for just 163 yards on 45 attempts for an average of 3.6 yards per rush. The passing stats were; MSU 9-23-0 for 149 yards; WSU 20-30-2 for 206 yards. Totals Offense was the same, but WSU had 23 first downs to MSU’s 15. The disparity in first downs resulted in a Time of Possession that favored WSU by 2 to 1…..40 minutes to 20 minutes.

When the CATS get in a rhythm and their run game is working, it’s not 3 yards and a cloud of dust. My point being that, at times, the Bobcat rushing attack is so dynamic that it doesn’t provide for an advantage in the TOP battle. It’s kinda counter intuitive…..sometimes you have the best rushing attack on the field, but it doesn’t translate into a grind-it-out game.

WSU led the Conference in TOP, was 4th in yards per rush and was 2nd to last in Total Offense. https://static.bigskyconf.com/custompag ... nfonly.htm

I said this last year, that just because you are a running team doesn't mean you aren't an explosive team. People equate running with grind it out offenses, but MSU is the only team to average over 5 YPC in the Sky last year, at 5.7 - the next closest was Sac at 5, then everyone else was in the 4s or even the 3s.

[1984TwoMinutesHate]

Is Choate putting to much emphasis on the defense?

No ... Sh*t no man ... I believe you'd get your ass kicked for sayin' something like that

[Cledus]

Is Choate putting to much emphasis on the defense?

No ... Sh*t no man ... I believe you'd get your ass kicked for sayin' something like that

[PapaG]

I think Choate is following a tried and true formula. Strong run game and strong defense. In this league, if you’re going to do that, you need to be really strong defensively. The two deep on defense and in the OL and RB looks very good.

We must have signed someone this week because the 2 deep I saw doesn't have anyone who has carried a ball in college (at least not enough to notice).

Troy Andersen not being the starting RB should tell you that Choate is fine with his RBs. He's losing the Eric Dickerson of the Big Sky on that side of the ball by moving Troy to defense.

[TomCat88]

I think Choate is following a tried and true formula. Strong run game and strong defense. In this league, if you’re going to do that, you need to be really strong defensively. The two deep on defense and in the OL and RB looks very good.

We must have signed someone this week because the 2 deep I saw doesn't have anyone who has carried a ball in college (at least not enough to notice).

Troy Andersen not being the starting RB should tell you that Choate is fine with his RBs. He's losing the Eric Dickerson of the Big Sky on that side of the ball by moving Troy to defense.

Ifanse and White are both incredibly good running backs coming out of high school.

[PapaG]

The change in the firepower of our offense has as much to do with a change in philosophy as it does with a change in personnel.

Choate is building a contender. Contenders tend to be able to break your heart by grinding out tough yards on the ground, winning time of possession and playing tough defense. This model has proven itself time and again. Choate should be appreciated for changing the style so quickly. With only two seasons under his belt, he has melded this team into a stingy defensive squad with an improving offensive run game. It’s amazing when you realize that only 3 seasons ago we tried to outscore everyone while our defense couldn’t stop anyone.

Are implying we weren’t a running team before Choate arrived? We ran the ball quite well under Ash.

I agree actually with both of you to a degree. We ran the ball well, very well, when Ash was here, specifically the years we had the best teams. Cody Kirk was a great story, and a great complement to the passing attack of McGhee, Bleskin, Akpla, etc. Dakota ran the ball well too, but in a different fashion, and one that was not as conducive to closing out close games. As utu says, our style has now changed. The question, as it was at the end of the Ash years with Prukop (where the offense became one-dimensional in its reliance on one player), is will we be able to find enough offensive balance to win, given our improving and potentially very good defense? I don't know the answer. If Natee is a good power runner (up for debate until proven one way or the other), I like our running game's potential, with Murray and Patterson as outside run options off some sort of hybridized SHSU-style zone option scheme. Can he hit 12-15 intermediate-to-long throws per game, to keep the safeties off the line? Same question as last year, and the one that will determine whether we're competitive again, or take the step to winning those close games.

Dakota Prukop led MSU to the playoffs the first season he started at QB for MSU. He came back and damn near won the SDSU playoff game on one leg one week after that Bleskin debacle in Missoula. The team averaged over 35 ppg his last year in Bozeman, but Jamie Marshall's defense was awful.

Come on. The QB play has hindered the team since Prukop left and has cost games for MSU since Choate became coach. The defense is fixed. The offense is mediocre at best unless the play at QB improves. That's why Travis Jonsen is in on campus, and hopefully he either pushes Chris Murray to be an elite QB or Travis wins that job on his own next fall.

[utucats]

The change in the firepower of our offense has as much to do with a change in philosophy as it does with a change in personnel.

Choate is building a contender. Contenders tend to be able to break your heart by grinding out tough yards on the ground, winning time of possession and playing tough defense. This model has proven itself time and again. Choate should be appreciated for changing the style so quickly. With only two seasons under his belt, he has melded this team into a stingy defensive squad with an improving offensive run game. It’s amazing when you realize that only 3 seasons ago we tried to outscore everyone while our defense couldn’t stop anyone.

Are implying we weren’t a running team before Choate arrived? We ran the ball quite well under Ash.

I agree actually with both of you to a degree. We ran the ball well, very well, when Ash was here, specifically the years we had the best teams. Cody Kirk was a great story, and a great complement to the passing attack of McGhee, Bleskin, Akpla, etc. Dakota ran the ball well too, but in a different fashion, and one that was not as conducive to closing out close games. As utu says, our style has now changed. The question, as it was at the end of the Ash years with Prukop (where the offense became one-dimensional in its reliance on one player), is will we be able to find enough offensive balance to win, given our improving and potentially very good defense? I don't know the answer. If Natee is a good power runner (up for debate until proven one way or the other), I like our running game's potential, with Murray and Patterson as outside run options off some sort of hybridized SHSU-style zone option scheme. Can he hit 12-15 intermediate-to-long throws per game, to keep the safeties off the line? Same question as last year, and the one that will determine whether we're competitive again, or take the step to winning those close games.

Dakota Prukop led MSU to the playoffs the first season he started at QB for MSU. He came back and damn near won the SDSU playoff game on one leg one week after that Bleskin debacle in Missoula. The team averaged over 35 ppg his last year in Bozeman, but Jamie Marshall's defense was awful.

Come on. The QB play has hindered the team since Prukop left and has cost games for MSU since Choate became coach. The defense is fixed. The offense is mediocre at best unless the play at QB improves. That's why Travis Jonsen is in on campus, and hopefully he either pushes Chris Murray to be an elite QB or Travis wins that job on his own next fall.

Chris Murray damn near beat SDSU last season. We played a very tough schedule and competed well against playoff teams. If Prukop gets credit for almost winning shouldn’t the same apply to Choate and Murray?

[GoldstoneCat]

The change in the firepower of our offense has as much to do with a change in philosophy as it does with a change in personnel.

Choate is building a contender. Contenders tend to be able to break your heart by grinding out tough yards on the ground, winning time of possession and playing tough defense. This model has proven itself time and again. Choate should be appreciated for changing the style so quickly. With only two seasons under his belt, he has melded this team into a stingy defensive squad with an improving offensive run game. It’s amazing when you realize that only 3 seasons ago we tried to outscore everyone while our defense couldn’t stop anyone.

Are implying we weren’t a running team before Choate arrived? We ran the ball quite well under Ash.

I agree actually with both of you to a degree. We ran the ball well, very well, when Ash was here, specifically the years we had the best teams. Cody Kirk was a great story, and a great complement to the passing attack of McGhee, Bleskin, Akpla, etc. Dakota ran the ball well too, but in a different fashion, and one that was not as conducive to closing out close games. As utu says, our style has now changed. The question, as it was at the end of the Ash years with Prukop (where the offense became one-dimensional in its reliance on one player), is will we be able to find enough offensive balance to win, given our improving and potentially very good defense? I don't know the answer. If Natee is a good power runner (up for debate until proven one way or the other), I like our running game's potential, with Murray and Patterson as outside run options off some sort of hybridized SHSU-style zone option scheme. Can he hit 12-15 intermediate-to-long throws per game, to keep the safeties off the line? Same question as last year, and the one that will determine whether we're competitive again, or take the step to winning those close games.

Dakota Prukop led MSU to the playoffs the first season he started at QB for MSU. He came back and damn near won the SDSU playoff game on one leg one week after that Bleskin debacle in Missoula. The team averaged over 35 ppg his last year in Bozeman, but Jamie Marshall's defense was awful.

Come on. The QB play has hindered the team since Prukop left and has cost games for MSU since Choate became coach. The defense is fixed. The offense is mediocre at best unless the play at QB improves. That's why Travis Jonsen is in on campus, and hopefully he either pushes Chris Murray to be an elite QB or Travis wins that job on his own next fall.

No argument from me, Prukop was great! My point was only that our style in those years was "quick-strike," and not necessarily conducive to closing out a close game, or helping out a poor defense. QB is still a potential problem, until it's proven not to be, for this staff. We had very few defensive weapons in ash's final years and it showed. IMO, it remains to be seen if this group will have enough offensive weapons ( and the ability to hit some throws, as I said) to help out what should be at least a very good defense.

[PapaG]

Chris Murray damn near beat SDSU last season. We played a very tough schedule and competed well against playoff teams. If Prukop gets credit for almost winning shouldn’t the same apply to Choate and Murray?

Prukop made the playoffs, as did DeNarius. It's time now to win more than 4 or 5 games, and the defense holds up well considering how limited the offense has been the last two years. Chris Murray is a very, very good athlete playing QB. He'd be a pro QB, at least CFL, if he can hit receivers and convert 3rd downs without having to use his legs to do so. He's still so young that it's not out of reach for him to do so, and with the new QB/passing game coach, I'm excited to see what happens.

[utucats]

Chris Murray damn near beat SDSU last season. We played a very tough schedule and competed well against playoff teams. If Prukop gets credit for almost winning shouldn’t the same apply to Choate and Murray?

Prukop made the playoffs, as did DeNarius. It's time now to win more than 4 or 5 games, and the defense holds up well considering how limited the offense has been the last two years. Chris Murray is a very, very good athlete playing QB. He'd be a pro QB, at least CFL, if he can hit receivers and convert 3rd downs without having to use his legs to do so. He's still so young that it's not out of reach for him to do so, and with the new QB/passing game coach, I'm excited to see what happens.

We’ll win plenty. It’s going to be a great season if it ever gets here.

[GoldstoneCat]

The change in the firepower of our offense has as much to do with a change in philosophy as it does with a change in personnel.

Choate is building a contender. Contenders tend to be able to break your heart by grinding out tough yards on the ground, winning time of possession and playing tough defense. This model has proven itself time and again. Choate should be appreciated for changing the style so quickly. With only two seasons under his belt, he has melded this team into a stingy defensive squad with an improving offensive run game. It’s amazing when you realize that only 3 seasons ago we tried to outscore everyone while our defense couldn’t stop anyone.

Are implying we weren’t a running team before Choate arrived? We ran the ball quite well under Ash.

I agree actually with both of you to a degree. We ran the ball well, very well, when Ash was here, specifically the years we had the best teams. Cody Kirk was a great story, and a great complement to the passing attack of McGhee, Bleskin, Akpla, etc. Dakota ran the ball well too, but in a different fashion, and one that was not as conducive to closing out close games. As utu says, our style has now changed. The question, as it was at the end of the Ash years with Prukop (where the offense became one-dimensional in its reliance on one player), is will we be able to find enough offensive balance to win, given our improving and potentially very good defense? I don't know the answer. If Natee is a good power runner (up for debate until proven one way or the other), I like our running game's potential, with Murray and Patterson as outside run options off some sort of hybridized SHSU-style zone option scheme. Can he hit 12-15 intermediate-to-long throws per game, to keep the safeties off the line? Same question as last year, and the one that will determine whether we're competitive again, or take the step to winning those close games.

Dakota Prukop led MSU to the playoffs the first season he started at QB for MSU. He came back and damn near won the SDSU playoff game on one leg one week after that Bleskin debacle in Missoula. The team averaged over 35 ppg his last year in Bozeman, but Jamie Marshall's defense was awful.

Come on. The QB play has hindered the team since Prukop left and has cost games for MSU since Choate became coach. The defense is fixed. The offense is mediocre at best unless the play at QB improves. That's why Travis Jonsen is in on campus, and hopefully he either pushes Chris Murray to be an elite QB or Travis wins that job on his own next fall.

Another thought that popped in my head as i thought about this conversation, is that I'd guess most new staffs are, at some point, hamstrung at QB as they build. Just using our program, Kramer started Azimi, ash started Iddins for a time, Choate ran Bruggman out there. Eventually, you have to get it right, as both prior coaches eventually did. I'm not sure that transcendent QB is here yet. Rovig, maybe not. Interested to see if Bauman can be that guy. I think we can win with Murray, but will need to hit that position right with a freshman recruit soon to win consistently.

[catatac]

The change in the firepower of our offense has as much to do with a change in philosophy as it does with a change in personnel.

Choate is building a contender. Contenders tend to be able to break your heart by grinding out tough yards on the ground, winning time of possession and playing tough defense. This model has proven itself time and again. Choate should be appreciated for changing the style so quickly. With only two seasons under his belt, he has melded this team into a stingy defensive squad with an improving offensive run game. It’s amazing when you realize that only 3 seasons ago we tried to outscore everyone while our defense couldn’t stop anyone.

Are implying we weren’t a running team before Choate arrived? We ran the ball quite well under Ash.

I agree actually with both of you to a degree. We ran the ball well, very well, when Ash was here, specifically the years we had the best teams. Cody Kirk was a great story, and a great complement to the passing attack of McGhee, Bleskin, Akpla, etc. Dakota ran the ball well too, but in a different fashion, and one that was not as conducive to closing out close games. As utu says, our style has now changed. The question, as it was at the end of the Ash years with Prukop (where the offense became one-dimensional in its reliance on one player), is will we be able to find enough offensive balance to win, given our improving and potentially very good defense? I don't know the answer. If Natee is a good power runner (up for debate until proven one way or the other), I like our running game's potential, with Murray and Patterson as outside run options off some sort of hybridized SHSU-style zone option scheme. Can he hit 12-15 intermediate-to-long throws per game, to keep the safeties off the line? Same question as last year, and the one that will determine whether we're competitive again, or take the step to winning those close games.

Dakota Prukop led MSU to the playoffs the first season he started at QB for MSU. He came back and damn near won the SDSU playoff game on one leg one week after that Bleskin debacle in Missoula. The team averaged over 35 ppg his last year in Bozeman, but Jamie Marshall's defense was awful.

Come on. The QB play has hindered the team since Prukop left and has cost games for MSU since Choate became coach. The defense is fixed. The offense is mediocre at best unless the play at QB improves. That's why Travis Jonsen is in on campus, and hopefully he either pushes Chris Murray to be an elite QB or Travis wins that job on his own next fall.

Another thought that popped in my head as i thought about this conversation, is that I'd guess most new staffs are, at some point, hamstrung at QB as they build. Just using our program, Kramer started Azimi, ash started Iddins for a time, Choate ran Bruggman out there. Eventually, you have to get it right, as both prior coaches eventually did. I'm not sure that transcendent QB is here yet. Rovig, maybe not. Interested to see if Bauman can be that guy. I think we can win with Murray, but will need to hit that position right with a freshman recruit soon to win consistently.

Perhaps, but I also believe we can and will win consistently with Murray if he ends up starting in 2018. I think he has improved every year and while he's not a perfect passer, he is getting better. He's getting better at managing the overall game as well. If he minimizes the mistakes and gets his passing percentage up around 60% this season (I predict he will), that coupled with his elite speed will get us over the hump in those close games.

[DriscollCat]

The change in the firepower of our offense has as much to do with a change in philosophy as it does with a change in personnel.

Choate is building a contender. Contenders tend to be able to break your heart by grinding out tough yards on the ground, winning time of possession and playing tough defense. This model has proven itself time and again. Choate should be appreciated for changing the style so quickly. With only two seasons under his belt, he has melded this team into a stingy defensive squad with an improving offensive run game. It’s amazing when you realize that only 3 seasons ago we tried to outscore everyone while our defense couldn’t stop anyone.

Are implying we weren’t a running team before Choate arrived? We ran the ball quite well under Ash.

I agree actually with both of you to a degree. We ran the ball well, very well, when Ash was here, specifically the years we had the best teams. Cody Kirk was a great story, and a great complement to the passing attack of McGhee, Bleskin, Akpla, etc. Dakota ran the ball well too, but in a different fashion, and one that was not as conducive to closing out close games. As utu says, our style has now changed. The question, as it was at the end of the Ash years with Prukop (where the offense became one-dimensional in its reliance on one player), is will we be able to find enough offensive balance to win, given our improving and potentially very good defense? I don't know the answer. If Natee is a good power runner (up for debate until proven one way or the other), I like our running game's potential, with Murray and Patterson as outside run options off some sort of hybridized SHSU-style zone option scheme. Can he hit 12-15 intermediate-to-long throws per game, to keep the safeties off the line? Same question as last year, and the one that will determine whether we're competitive again, or take the step to winning those close games.

Dakota Prukop led MSU to the playoffs the first season he started at QB for MSU. He came back and damn near won the SDSU playoff game on one leg one week after that Bleskin debacle in Missoula. The team averaged over 35 ppg his last year in Bozeman, but Jamie Marshall's defense was awful.

Come on. The QB play has hindered the team since Prukop left and has cost games for MSU since Choate became coach. The defense is fixed. The offense is mediocre at best unless the play at QB improves. That's why Travis Jonsen is in on campus, and hopefully he either pushes Chris Murray to be an elite QB or Travis wins that job on his own next fall.

Another thought that popped in my head as i thought about this conversation, is that I'd guess most new staffs are, at some point, hamstrung at QB as they build. Just using our program, Kramer started Azimi, ash started Iddins for a time, Choate ran Bruggman out there. Eventually, you have to get it right, as both prior coaches eventually did. I'm not sure that transcendent QB is here yet. Rovig, maybe not. Interested to see if Bauman can be that guy. I think we can win with Murray, but will need to hit that position right with a freshman recruit soon to win consistently.

Perhaps, but I also believe we can and will win consistently with Murray if he ends up starting in 2018. I think he has improved every year and while he's not a perfect passer, he is getting better. He's getting better at managing the overall game as well. If he minimizes the mistakes and gets his passing percentage up around 60% this season (I predict he will), that coupled with his elite speed will get us over the hump in those close games.

For me, this will be the biggest part of evaluating coach Choate in his third year. He has been putting together something special on defense and offense has been improving. If we are going to be a really good team,we have to eliminate mistakes at crucial points of games. If we turn close losses to good teams into close wins over good teams, I will be very happy with his performance.

[Go Scats Go]

This is the dumbest thread in the history of CB nation.

And it’s not even close.

[BigBruceBaker]

This is the dumbest thread in the history of CB nation.

And it’s not even close.

Thanks for coming around. Always nice to see the town idiot.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[LIBBYCAT]

This is the dumbest thread in the history of CB nation.

And it’s not even close.

Not going to belabor your point, but coming from one of the dUMbest posters in
“CB” history, instead of coming over here and fouling the air, maybe you could go lance yourself like the boil on the ass of humanity you are.

[Go Scats Go]

You Mo's are actually debating if CC is putting too much emphasis into the D.

Do you want to win? Who is the last National Champ in FCS that had an average Defense?

The Answer is NO he is not.

[Buckaroo Bonzi]

You Mo's are actually debating if CC is putting too much emphasis into the D

The Answer is NO he is not.

No $hit Sherlock