Talent level?

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saintcat40
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Talent level?

Post by saintcat40 » Thu Apr 12, 2018 11:40 am

I enjoy the game of football, but definitely am not an expert in it. So I am looking for feedback from Colter, Vim, and anybody else who wants to chime in. What is the talent level of the Bobcat roster right now? I vaguely remember some discussion from Colter during Choate’s first year that gave the definite impression that our team was in the lower half of the Big Sky as far as talent. I remember him saying that the Grizzlies were one of the more talented rosters at the time. I am wondering if there really has been a substantial talent upgrade. Do we legitimately have the talent to compete for a Big Sky title and make a playoff run this year?



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Re: Talent level?

Post by VimSince03 » Thu Apr 12, 2018 11:48 am

saintcat40 wrote:I enjoy the game of football, but definitely am not an expert in it. So I am looking for feedback from Colter, Vim, and anybody else who wants to chime in. What is the talent level of the Bobcat roster right now? I vaguely remember some discussion from Colter during Choate’s first year that gave the definite impression that our team was in the lower half of the Big Sky as far as talent. I remember him saying that the Grizzlies were one of the more talented rosters at the time. I am wondering if there really has been a substantial talent upgrade. Do we legitimately have the talent to compete for a Big Sky title and make a playoff run this year?
My assessment is that we are talented enough on defense to compete for a Big Sky title. On offense, question marks are abound at QB, WR, RB, and OL (I like the TEs). Will Murray take the next step at becoming a complete QB? Who will replace Jabari Johnson and how will the overall WR rotation shake out? How will the RB rotation shake out and will they be productive? Can Zach Redd hold down the fort at center and allow the Alex Neale to flourish at guard? Our running game is going to be one of the best in the Big Sky conference once again...possibly better than last year. But can the overall offense show the balance that is necessary to be a contender? Yet to be determined in my opinion.


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Re: Talent level?

Post by Mr Lisle » Thu Apr 12, 2018 12:13 pm

I know you are asking about the "talent level" of the team, but I want to talk about the talent level of the coach first. I commend coach Choate. It appears he is doing an amazing job of upgrading the talent. He also has the advantage of coach TG who immediately changed the nature of defense and therefore the team. Coach Choate brings us the advantage of having been on the staff of fine FBS programs, and his knowledge of what it takes to win at that level really translates well in Bozeman. His first year, I thought, was impressive. The talent was sub par in large part due to the loss of over 30 players from Coach Ash's roster. Coach Kramer faced the same type of thing in his first year and went 0-11. Things are now playing out so well I am confident the CATS will be a force in the BSC next season. The even better news is I feel we will compete well with anyone in all of FCS in 2019. His swagger is permeating "THE NATION". We are on a good track.



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Re: Talent level?

Post by TomCat88 » Thu Apr 12, 2018 12:26 pm

They’re definitely talented enough. They were last year. They need to refine their skills with practice and drills. Skills are what keep players from making mistakes at critical times. That’s what kept MSU from being an 8-3 or better team last year.


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Re: Talent level?

Post by mslacatfan » Thu Apr 12, 2018 12:35 pm

TomCat88 wrote:They’re definitely talented enough. They were last year. They need to refine their skills with practice and drills. Skills are what keep players from making mistakes at critical times. That’s what kept MSU from being an 8-3 or better team last year.
agreed. We had the talent to win last year, and definitely have it this year. Last year, pretty much every single loss came down to 1 or 2 bad plays... a bad turnover, or stupid penalty... its crazy how close this team was to being 8-3. Also, that was while playing a very difficult schedule.

Definitely have some question marks this year at a couple positions, but overall majority of the roster returned. These last couple years recruits have been outstanding, I think we will begin to see more and more of them stand out (examples- willie Patterson, Zach Redd)


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Re: Talent level?

Post by CARDIAC_CATS » Thu Apr 12, 2018 12:56 pm

Until we improve in the Red Zone and Kicking areas we can have all the talent in the world but will come up just a little bit short in a lot of the close games. Great teams excel in both of those areas. You have to have a good kicker when you have a good defense as those points add up throughout the game. Hopefully they can put all 3 phases of the game together this year. The D will go a long ways, but they have to get better in those other areas or we will lose some more games we shouldn't this year. This is the year they should take the next step (No more 5-6 seasons going forward).



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Re: Talent level?

Post by gtapp » Thu Apr 12, 2018 1:17 pm

On Defense we have gotten better each year and we have depth. On offense I don't see any improvement in the last 2 years except OL. We finished last in passing the last 2 years (well except for Cal Poly) and this year Murray will still be our QB at least to start the season. Can he improve? Maybe, we will see. The bigger problem is he needs WR's to throw to and our best 2 are gone (1 to graduation and 1 to injury). The problem is he needs large physical receivers with good hands for 2 reasons. 1) Murray runs a lot and we are a running team first. WR's need to block in our offense. 2) Murray may never be a real accurate passer (we will see) and the large physical WR's can fight for position and for the ball. We have a lot of smaller receivers this year with very little experience. They may be very talented but are they the right kind of receivers to help us? We are supposed to be a running team well who outside of Murray is going to run the ball? You have Natee who is a situational runner who averaged 3 yards a carry in the Spring mostly against the number 2's and in Choate's own words needs to lose 12-15 lbs. and you have a converted WR. No one else has shown much. The freshmen coming in may help but again, we will have to wait and see. This defense can compete but any defense that is on the field enough will eventually get tired. The depth will help but we will have to see how everyone holds up. Outside of Murray the total amount of rushing yards returning is just a few yards above zero (assuming Anderson stays on defense). The total returning receiving yards was just under 40 yards per game. So what changes? Either players will have gotten a lot better or the new guys have to be very good.


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Re: Talent level?

Post by CodyCat » Thu Apr 12, 2018 2:02 pm

gtapp wrote:On Defense we have gotten better each year and we have depth. On offense I don't see any improvement in the last 2 years except OL. We finished last in passing the last 2 years (well except for Cal Poly) and this year Murray will still be our QB at least to start the season. Can he improve? Maybe, we will see. The bigger problem is he needs WR's to throw to and our best 2 are gone (1 to graduation and 1 to injury). The problem is he needs large physical receivers with good hands for 2 reasons. 1) Murray runs a lot and we are a running team first. WR's need to block in our offense. 2) Murray may never be a real accurate passer (we will see) and the large physical WR's can fight for position and for the ball. We have a lot of smaller receivers this year with very little experience. They may be very talented but are they the right kind of receivers to help us? We are supposed to be a running team well who outside of Murray is going to run the ball? You have Natee who is a situational runner who averaged 3 yards a carry in the Spring mostly against the number 2's and in Choate's own words needs to lose 12-15 lbs. and you have a converted WR. No one else has shown much. The freshmen coming in may help but again, we will have to wait and see. This defense can compete but any defense that is on the field enough will eventually get tired. The depth will help but we will have to see how everyone holds up. Outside of Murray the total amount of rushing yards returning is just a few yards above zero (assuming Anderson stays on defense). The total returning receiving yards was just under 40 yards per game. So what changes? Either players will have gotten a lot better or the new guys have to be very good.
This is pretty accurate. We will be as good as our QB. Which means and eight win season will be difficult if he hasn't drastically improved.


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Re: Talent level?

Post by BleedingBLue » Thu Apr 12, 2018 2:23 pm

gtapp wrote:On Defense we have gotten better each year and we have depth. On offense I don't see any improvement in the last 2 years except OL. We finished last in passing the last 2 years (well except for Cal Poly) and this year Murray will still be our QB at least to start the season. Can he improve? Maybe, we will see. The bigger problem is he needs WR's to throw to and our best 2 are gone (1 to graduation and 1 to injury). The problem is he needs large physical receivers with good hands for 2 reasons. 1) Murray runs a lot and we are a running team first. WR's need to block in our offense. 2) Murray may never be a real accurate passer (we will see) and the large physical WR's can fight for position and for the ball. We have a lot of smaller receivers this year with very little experience. They may be very talented but are they the right kind of receivers to help us? We are supposed to be a running team well who outside of Murray is going to run the ball? You have Natee who is a situational runner who averaged 3 yards a carry in the Spring mostly against the number 2's and in Choate's own words needs to lose 12-15 lbs. and you have a converted WR. No one else has shown much. The freshmen coming in may help but again, we will have to wait and see. This defense can compete but any defense that is on the field enough will eventually get tired. The depth will help but we will have to see how everyone holds up. Outside of Murray the total amount of rushing yards returning is just a few yards above zero (assuming Anderson stays on defense). The total returning receiving yards was just under 40 yards per game. So what changes? Either players will have gotten a lot better or the new guys have to be very good.
In regards to receivers you don't have to be big to be physical and go get a ball. How big was Steve Smith? Kassis has shown he is an excellent blocker and has great hands. I think he will be great on the outside and will win some important jump balls throughout the season. Every year somebody new needs to step up, and I'm sure someone will this year. Nobody really talked about Johnson last year other than the fact that he was big, then bam he's catching everything thrown his way.



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Talent level?

Post by CelticCat » Thu Apr 12, 2018 2:30 pm

I won’t lie, RB is an area of concern. We have some scat back type guys, Burgess and Pegues, but then we jump up from those 5’8 guys to 6’1 260 Natee and 6’1 205 Tucker a converted WR.

As you said, we have no real experience here. I think either White or Ifanse breaks into the lineup. Cauley is a bigger back so I think he redshirted behind Natee and Tucker.

I didn’t hear much about Pegues this spring, did he get much action?


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Re: Talent level?

Post by VimSince03 » Thu Apr 12, 2018 2:34 pm

CelticCat wrote:I won’t lie, RB is an area of concern. We have some scat back type guys, Burgess and Pegues, but then we jump up from those 5’8 guys to 6’1 260 Natee and 6’1 205 Tucker a converted WR.

As you said, we have no real experience here. I think either White or Ifanse breaks into the lineup. Cauley is a bigger back so I think he redshirted behind Natee and Tucker.

I didn’t hear much about Pegues this spring, did he get much action?


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Don't forget about Logan Jones. I'd say our Top 3 are Natee, Jones, and Tucker in what roles they are going to play.

Pegues was nicked up this spring. Burgess was moved to WR and he was nicked up as well.


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Re: Talent level?

Post by CelticCat » Thu Apr 12, 2018 2:37 pm

I love Jones but he did not produce last year. He only averaged 3.8 YPC and got swallowed up at the line a whole bunch. Every other back with more than 30 carries last year averaged 5.7 YPC or higher.




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Re: Talent level?

Post by Cledus » Thu Apr 12, 2018 2:50 pm

CARDIAC_CATS wrote:Until we improve in the Red Zone and Kicking areas we can have all the talent in the world but will come up just a little bit short in a lot of the close games. Great teams excel in both of those areas. You have to have a good kicker when you have a good defense as those points add up throughout the game. Hopefully they can put all 3 phases of the game together this year. The D will go a long ways, but they have to get better in those other areas or we will lose some more games we shouldn't this year. This is the year they should take the next step (No more 5-6 seasons going forward).
I love Choate, but I feel like he's treated the kicking game as an afterthought. I realize he's prioritizing and trying to maximize upside, but I agree we'll get clipped in some close games.


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Re: Talent level?

Post by DriscollCat » Thu Apr 12, 2018 3:06 pm

CelticCat wrote:I love Jones but he did not produce last year. He only averaged 3.8 YPC and got swallowed up at the line a whole bunch. Every other back with more than 30 carries last year averaged 5.7 YPC or higher.




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I thought Logan Jones looked the best out of our running backs at the scrimmage last weekend.



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Re: Talent level?

Post by DriscollCat » Thu Apr 12, 2018 3:10 pm

BleedingBLue wrote:
gtapp wrote:On Defense we have gotten better each year and we have depth. On offense I don't see any improvement in the last 2 years except OL. We finished last in passing the last 2 years (well except for Cal Poly) and this year Murray will still be our QB at least to start the season. Can he improve? Maybe, we will see. The bigger problem is he needs WR's to throw to and our best 2 are gone (1 to graduation and 1 to injury). The problem is he needs large physical receivers with good hands for 2 reasons. 1) Murray runs a lot and we are a running team first. WR's need to block in our offense. 2) Murray may never be a real accurate passer (we will see) and the large physical WR's can fight for position and for the ball. We have a lot of smaller receivers this year with very little experience. They may be very talented but are they the right kind of receivers to help us? We are supposed to be a running team well who outside of Murray is going to run the ball? You have Natee who is a situational runner who averaged 3 yards a carry in the Spring mostly against the number 2's and in Choate's own words needs to lose 12-15 lbs. and you have a converted WR. No one else has shown much. The freshmen coming in may help but again, we will have to wait and see. This defense can compete but any defense that is on the field enough will eventually get tired. The depth will help but we will have to see how everyone holds up. Outside of Murray the total amount of rushing yards returning is just a few yards above zero (assuming Anderson stays on defense). The total returning receiving yards was just under 40 yards per game. So what changes? Either players will have gotten a lot better or the new guys have to be very good.
In regards to receivers you don't have to be big to be physical and go get a ball. How big was Steve Smith? Kassis has shown he is an excellent blocker and has great hands. I think he will be great on the outside and will win some important jump balls throughout the season. Every year somebody new needs to step up, and I'm sure someone will this year. Nobody really talked about Johnson last year other than the fact that he was big, then bam he's catching everything thrown his way.
I love Kassis and D'Agostino, but there is something to be said for someone who is just a huge target. Especially when you have a quarterback who struggles passing at times.



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Re: Talent level?

Post by mongoo99 » Thu Apr 12, 2018 3:21 pm

I don't post much, but this topic intrigues me. I think MSU will have the No. 1 defense in the Big Sky. Their front 7 will be the best, and I'm including Josh Hill in those seven. The addition of Sparaco and Sterk along with Troy Andersen means MSU gives up about 20 points a game in 2018. The secondary is a question mark, but Luke May helps and Konkol might move back to safety because there's so much depth at LB. I also think Keaton Anderson will be a factor and who knows about the incoming freshmen twins. But, while the secondary may be iffy, the front 7 won't give QBs much time to throw, so some of the weakness will be hidden.

Special teams won't be as bad as feared because there are so many LBs and that's the body type you want on special teams. LBs are fast and solid, and those not playing regularly will be highlighting the special teams. Can't speak for the kickers themselves.

On offense, I believe in Murray. I think he'll continue to carry the load, and I think Tucker will be a better runner than Natee. Natee's too big and doesn't seem to hit the hole very hard. That being said, newcomers Ifanse and Sherrod will probably see the field. Maybe not both, but one of them. I also think Troy will see the ball some on offense, once again because of the LB depth and because there may not be a true No. 1 RB. Willie Patterson and Kassis will be reliable receivers, assuming Murray can deliver. The offense should be around where it was last year, averaging about 25 points a game. If someone steps up as the featured back, it will help a lot. RB by committee leads to problems, but those problems can be overcome.

Choate and TG are darn good coaches who get the most out of their players. I also think new quarterbacks coach Bob Cole will make Murray better.

It all adds up to 8-3 and playoffs. 2019 means 9-2 or 10-1.

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Re: Talent level?

Post by HelenaCat95 » Thu Apr 12, 2018 3:39 pm

I too think that our Front 7 will be very good. Possibly the best in the Big Sky. I think that there enough questions in the secondary to harbor some doubt, but I think the pieces could be there.

On Offense, our running game will again be one of the best in the Big Sky, with Murray, Natee, Jones, in-coming freshmen, and a solid O-Line. The big question for me is 3rd downs. If we have 3rd and 6+, will our passing game with Murray (who has gotten better, but not yet a solid passer) and the loss of Johnson, be enough to convert those 3rd and longs.

Special Teams - returning punter Padmos is very good. Bailey's strong leg on kickoffs will be an asset. But I don't think we know enough about FG kicking yet to say it will be good enough or not. Punt return and kickoffs, and coverage.....who knows.



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Re: Talent level?

Post by mslacatfan » Thu Apr 12, 2018 3:47 pm

HelenaCat95 wrote:I too think that our Front 7 will be very good. Possibly the best in the Big Sky. I think that there enough questions in the secondary to harbor some doubt, but I think the pieces could be there.

On Offense, our running game will again be one of the best in the Big Sky, with Murray, Natee, Jones, in-coming freshmen, and a solid O-Line. The big question for me is 3rd downs. If we have 3rd and 6+, will our passing game with Murray (who has gotten better, but not yet a solid passer) and the loss of Johnson, be enough to convert those 3rd and longs.

Special Teams - returning punter Padmos is very good. Bailey's strong leg on kickoffs will be an asset. But I don't think we know enough about FG kicking yet to say it will be good enough or not. Punt return and kickoffs, and coverage.....who knows.

good point about Padmos. Nobody has said much about him, but he is definitely an impact player on special teams, a strength for sure. As far as field goal kicking............... total crap shoot at this point. I guess we will find out once the first game rolls around.


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Re: Talent level?

Post by BleedingBLue » Thu Apr 12, 2018 4:44 pm

DriscollCat wrote:
BleedingBLue wrote:
gtapp wrote:On Defense we have gotten better each year and we have depth. On offense I don't see any improvement in the last 2 years except OL. We finished last in passing the last 2 years (well except for Cal Poly) and this year Murray will still be our QB at least to start the season. Can he improve? Maybe, we will see. The bigger problem is he needs WR's to throw to and our best 2 are gone (1 to graduation and 1 to injury). The problem is he needs large physical receivers with good hands for 2 reasons. 1) Murray runs a lot and we are a running team first. WR's need to block in our offense. 2) Murray may never be a real accurate passer (we will see) and the large physical WR's can fight for position and for the ball. We have a lot of smaller receivers this year with very little experience. They may be very talented but are they the right kind of receivers to help us? We are supposed to be a running team well who outside of Murray is going to run the ball? You have Natee who is a situational runner who averaged 3 yards a carry in the Spring mostly against the number 2's and in Choate's own words needs to lose 12-15 lbs. and you have a converted WR. No one else has shown much. The freshmen coming in may help but again, we will have to wait and see. This defense can compete but any defense that is on the field enough will eventually get tired. The depth will help but we will have to see how everyone holds up. Outside of Murray the total amount of rushing yards returning is just a few yards above zero (assuming Anderson stays on defense). The total returning receiving yards was just under 40 yards per game. So what changes? Either players will have gotten a lot better or the new guys have to be very good.
In regards to receivers you don't have to be big to be physical and go get a ball. How big was Steve Smith? Kassis has shown he is an excellent blocker and has great hands. I think he will be great on the outside and will win some important jump balls throughout the season. Every year somebody new needs to step up, and I'm sure someone will this year. Nobody really talked about Johnson last year other than the fact that he was big, then bam he's catching everything thrown his way.
I love Kassis and D'Agostino, but there is something to be said for someone who is just a huge target. Especially when you have a quarterback who struggles passing at times.
I agree, I'm just saying we aren't lacking in talent at the position. Both Kassis and Johnny D have hops as well.



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Re: Talent level?

Post by Caturday » Thu Apr 12, 2018 7:01 pm

Any guesses or opinions on starters and/or 2 deep on the defense?



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