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Re: 2019 MSU Recruiting (30 Signees)
Posted: Tue Feb 12, 2019 2:38 pm
by wbtfg
iaafan wrote: ↑Tue Feb 12, 2019 2:25 pm
Pell grants and the ncaa student assistance fund are two ways to “add” money to offset your athletic funding and increase your “paid” rostered players. The most you can get from a Pell is about $6,000/year.
Some fcs players get a portion of their funding split between Pell and their scholarship. If it’s 75/25, then the player is only assigned 75% of an athletic scholarship.
Now with full cost of attendance, is it possible for a student athlete to receive a full scholarship AND receive his/her Pell Grant?
Re: 2019 MSU Recruiting (30 Signees)
Posted: Tue Feb 12, 2019 2:57 pm
by iaafan
Based on the article I’m reading it’s hard to say. CBS sports ran this article in 2016.
Re: 2019 MSU Recruiting (30 Signees)
Posted: Tue Feb 12, 2019 3:03 pm
by 2-B-Champ
iaafan wrote: ↑Tue Feb 12, 2019 2:25 pm
Pell grants and the ncaa student assistance fund are two ways to “add” money to offset your athletic funding and increase your “paid” rostered players. The most you can get from a Pell is about $6,000/year.
Some fcs players get a portion of their funding split between Pell and their scholarship. If it’s 75/25, then the player is only assigned 75% of an athletic scholarship.
Unless it has changed in the last couple of years, Pell Grant has nothing to do with a scholarship. If the student athlete applied and received a grant because of his financial situation, then receive a full ride scholarship he/she gets to keep both. They come from a completely different coffers one is from the federal government and other from the school. I played with a few that had the best of both worlds and they used their grant money for pocket money during the year.
Re: 2019 MSU Recruiting (30 Signees)
Posted: Tue Feb 12, 2019 3:41 pm
by iaafan
2-B-Champ wrote: ↑Tue Feb 12, 2019 3:03 pm
iaafan wrote: ↑Tue Feb 12, 2019 2:25 pm
Pell grants and the ncaa student assistance fund are two ways to “add” money to offset your athletic funding and increase your “paid” rostered players. The most you can get from a Pell is about $6,000/year.
Some fcs players get a portion of their funding split between Pell and their scholarship. If it’s 75/25, then the player is only assigned 75% of an athletic scholarship.
Unless it has changed in the last couple of years, Pell Grant has nothing to do with a scholarship. If the student athlete applied and received a grant because of his financial situation, then receive a full ride scholarship he/she gets to keep both. They come from a completely different coffers one is from the federal government and other from the school. I played with a few that had the best of both worlds and they used their grant money for pocket money during the year.
You’re right in that it isn’t taking away from a scholarship. You can get a full ride for sports and a Pell OR the school can offer you the equivalent of a full split between the Pell you received and the scholarship. In that way the Pell can “add” funding to your athletic program.
Re: 2019 MSU Recruiting (30 Signees)
Posted: Tue Feb 12, 2019 5:36 pm
by catgrad05
I believe you can still get an academic scholarship. I think that just means the money comes out of the academic side rather than the athletic side of the budget. It still “counts” as a football scholarship it’s just not football money per se.
I might be wrong but I believe that can happen at the FCS level for budget balancing purposes
Re: 2019 MSU Recruiting (30 Signees)
Posted: Tue Feb 12, 2019 7:33 pm
by catatac
VimSince03 wrote: ↑Mon Feb 11, 2019 6:29 pm
catatac wrote: ↑Mon Feb 11, 2019 5:31 pm
So VIM - this debate seems to come up every recruiting season about the amount of D1 talent available in MT. You do great research and invest tons of time tracking all these MT recruits and it's much appreciated! I'm not asking you to do additional research here that I could do myself if I got motivated enough but it seems as if it would be pretty easy to look at the last ten years or so and count how many MT football players had successful FCS (or FBS) careers? You'd have to throw in some parameter there about what defines "successful" but wouldn't necessarily have to be a four year starter or anything obviously. Probably something like, did they stay on the team through graduation, or started at one point but got injured, etc. Again, without doing a bunch of research what is your gut feeling for the average number of legit D1 recruits in MT in a given year... five? Ten?
Going back to 2012, the number of Montana football players to have impactful D1 (FCS/FBS) careers is about 10-12 per class. Some highly sought after recruits wash out at the FCS level but a random NAIA recruit comes out of nowhere with an All-American career at the NAIA level (which equates to starter potential/rotational depth at the FCS level). Cain Boschee (Kalispell Glacier) and Nolan Saracini (Billings Senior) are examples of that success. Anyway, I consider a recruit to have an impact career at the FCS level by either starting or being steady contributor through rotational depth.
Thank you sir - you da man! I was guessing it might be ten-ish.
Re: 2019 MSU Recruiting (30 Signees)
Posted: Tue Feb 12, 2019 7:45 pm
by bobcat99
iaafan wrote: ↑Tue Feb 12, 2019 2:18 pm
bobcat99 wrote: ↑Tue Feb 12, 2019 2:11 pm
iaafan wrote: ↑Tue Feb 12, 2019 12:44 pm
kennethnoisewater wrote: ↑Tue Feb 12, 2019 12:23 pm
Montanabob wrote: ↑Tue Feb 12, 2019 12:16 pm
VimSince03 wrote: ↑Mon Feb 11, 2019 7:14 pm
gtapp wrote: ↑Mon Feb 11, 2019 7:07 pm
VIM, you still have one player listed as a potential recruit (Andrew Boyle). What does that mean?
Means he came on a visit and hasn't signed anywhere yet. Andrew is a potential kicker/punter so I'm assuming we still have interest.
And having a kicker that played safety is good as our kickers always seem to get some tackles...
And having a punter that played QB, well opens up the 4th and short run/pass options.
And he is both.
Also a 4.5 GPA and a 1440 SAT guy. Wouldn't have to spend any football money on him, I wouldn't think. Or maybe I'm misunderstanding that process. I never had the problem of my academic and athletic scholarships overlapping.
That’s not allowed.
Pretty positive it is.
There's a number of kids on the football team on academic scholarship if I remember correctly.
There are, but it doesn’t mean you can still use your athletic scholarship money on an additional player. Fcs gets 63 scholarships to split up amongst 85 players. You don’t get extra players because you’re giving academic scholarships.
I see what you're saying now. I was just thinking about the money aspect.
Re: 2019 MSU Recruiting (30 Signees)
Posted: Wed Feb 13, 2019 7:40 am
by 2-B-Champ
2-B-Champ wrote: ↑Tue Feb 12, 2019 1:44 pm
kennethnoisewater wrote: ↑Tue Feb 12, 2019 1:29 pm
iaafan wrote: ↑Tue Feb 12, 2019 12:44 pm
kennethnoisewater wrote: ↑Tue Feb 12, 2019 12:23 pm
Montanabob wrote: ↑Tue Feb 12, 2019 12:16 pm
VimSince03 wrote: ↑Mon Feb 11, 2019 7:14 pm
gtapp wrote: ↑Mon Feb 11, 2019 7:07 pm
VIM, you still have one player listed as a potential recruit (Andrew Boyle). What does that mean?
Means he came on a visit and hasn't signed anywhere yet. Andrew is a potential kicker/punter so I'm assuming we still have interest.
And having a kicker that played safety is good as our kickers always seem to get some tackles...
And having a punter that played QB, well opens up the 4th and short run/pass options.
And he is both.
Also a 4.5 GPA and a 1440 SAT guy. Wouldn't have to spend any football money on him, I wouldn't think. Or maybe I'm misunderstanding that process. I never had the problem of my academic and athletic scholarships overlapping.
That’s not allowed.
Makes sense...pretty easy to beat the system that way. But still, always good to have a good athlete with good grades and presumably good character.
Andrew is looking for a school, he will be able to play QB at.
Sounds like Andrew changed his mind and will be heading to MSU to kick.
Re: 2019 MSU Recruiting (30 Signees)
Posted: Wed Feb 13, 2019 8:10 am
by iaafan
That’s great news about Boyle if true.
Re: 2019 MSU Recruiting (30 Signees)
Posted: Wed Feb 13, 2019 8:10 am
by RobertCats
2-B-Champ wrote: ↑Wed Feb 13, 2019 7:40 am
2-B-Champ wrote: ↑Tue Feb 12, 2019 1:44 pm
kennethnoisewater wrote: ↑Tue Feb 12, 2019 1:29 pm
iaafan wrote: ↑Tue Feb 12, 2019 12:44 pm
kennethnoisewater wrote: ↑Tue Feb 12, 2019 12:23 pm
Montanabob wrote: ↑Tue Feb 12, 2019 12:16 pm
VimSince03 wrote: ↑Mon Feb 11, 2019 7:14 pm
gtapp wrote: ↑Mon Feb 11, 2019 7:07 pm
VIM, you still have one player listed as a potential recruit (Andrew Boyle). What does that mean?
Means he came on a visit and hasn't signed anywhere yet. Andrew is a potential kicker/punter so I'm assuming we still have interest.
And having a kicker that played safety is good as our kickers always seem to get some tackles...
And having a punter that played QB, well opens up the 4th and short run/pass options.
And he is both.
Also a 4.5 GPA and a 1440 SAT guy. Wouldn't have to spend any football money on him, I wouldn't think. Or maybe I'm misunderstanding that process. I never had the problem of my academic and athletic scholarships overlapping.
That’s not allowed.
Makes sense...pretty easy to beat the system that way. But still, always good to have a good athlete with good grades and presumably good character.
Andrew is looking for a school, he will be able to play QB at.
Sounds like Andrew changed is mind and will be heading to MSU to kick.
Great news! I thought Andrew might be the “athlete” Choate was talking about at the presser that they thought they got but decided to play another position. He has some serious potential, thanks for the update @2-B-Champ
Re: 2019 MSU Recruiting (30 Signees)
Posted: Wed Feb 13, 2019 12:08 pm
by msufaithful
2-B-Champ wrote: ↑Wed Feb 13, 2019 7:40 am
2-B-Champ wrote: ↑Tue Feb 12, 2019 1:44 pm
kennethnoisewater wrote: ↑Tue Feb 12, 2019 1:29 pm
iaafan wrote: ↑Tue Feb 12, 2019 12:44 pm
kennethnoisewater wrote: ↑Tue Feb 12, 2019 12:23 pm
Montanabob wrote: ↑Tue Feb 12, 2019 12:16 pm
VimSince03 wrote: ↑Mon Feb 11, 2019 7:14 pm
gtapp wrote: ↑Mon Feb 11, 2019 7:07 pm
VIM, you still have one player listed as a potential recruit (Andrew Boyle). What does that mean?
Means he came on a visit and hasn't signed anywhere yet. Andrew is a potential kicker/punter so I'm assuming we still have interest.
And having a kicker that played safety is good as our kickers always seem to get some tackles...
And having a punter that played QB, well opens up the 4th and short run/pass options.
And he is both.
Also a 4.5 GPA and a 1440 SAT guy. Wouldn't have to spend any football money on him, I wouldn't think. Or maybe I'm misunderstanding that process. I never had the problem of my academic and athletic scholarships overlapping.
That’s not allowed.
Makes sense...pretty easy to beat the system that way. But still, always good to have a good athlete with good grades and presumably good character.
Andrew is looking for a school, he will be able to play QB at.
Sounds like Andrew changed his mind and will be heading to MSU to kick.
Heard the same thing.
Re: 2019 MSU Recruiting (30 Signees)
Posted: Wed Feb 13, 2019 1:18 pm
by AFCAT
msufaithful wrote: ↑Wed Feb 13, 2019 12:08 pm
2-B-Champ wrote: ↑Wed Feb 13, 2019 7:40 am
2-B-Champ wrote: ↑Tue Feb 12, 2019 1:44 pm
kennethnoisewater wrote: ↑Tue Feb 12, 2019 1:29 pm
iaafan wrote: ↑Tue Feb 12, 2019 12:44 pm
kennethnoisewater wrote: ↑Tue Feb 12, 2019 12:23 pm
Montanabob wrote: ↑Tue Feb 12, 2019 12:16 pm
VimSince03 wrote: ↑Mon Feb 11, 2019 7:14 pm
gtapp wrote: ↑Mon Feb 11, 2019 7:07 pm
VIM, you still have one player listed as a potential recruit (Andrew Boyle). What does that mean?
Means he came on a visit and hasn't signed anywhere yet. Andrew is a potential kicker/punter so I'm assuming we still have interest.
And having a kicker that played safety is good as our kickers always seem to get some tackles...
And having a punter that played QB, well opens up the 4th and short run/pass options.
And he is both.
Also a 4.5 GPA and a 1440 SAT guy. Wouldn't have to spend any football money on him, I wouldn't think. Or maybe I'm misunderstanding that process. I never had the problem of my academic and athletic scholarships overlapping.
That’s not allowed.
Makes sense...pretty easy to beat the system that way. But still, always good to have a good athlete with good grades and presumably good character.
Andrew is looking for a school, he will be able to play QB at.
Sounds like Andrew changed his mind and will be heading to MSU to kick.
Heard the same thing.
I saw online that the MIT football team was looking at him. I didn’t even realize MIT had a football team (Div III). He must have an impressive academic resume.
Re: 2019 MSU Recruiting (30 Signees)
Posted: Wed Feb 13, 2019 1:49 pm
by kennethnoisewater
AFCAT wrote: ↑Wed Feb 13, 2019 1:18 pm
msufaithful wrote: ↑Wed Feb 13, 2019 12:08 pm
2-B-Champ wrote: ↑Wed Feb 13, 2019 7:40 am
2-B-Champ wrote: ↑Tue Feb 12, 2019 1:44 pm
kennethnoisewater wrote: ↑Tue Feb 12, 2019 1:29 pm
iaafan wrote: ↑Tue Feb 12, 2019 12:44 pm
kennethnoisewater wrote: ↑Tue Feb 12, 2019 12:23 pm
Montanabob wrote: ↑Tue Feb 12, 2019 12:16 pm
VimSince03 wrote: ↑Mon Feb 11, 2019 7:14 pm
gtapp wrote: ↑Mon Feb 11, 2019 7:07 pm
VIM, you still have one player listed as a potential recruit (Andrew Boyle). What does that mean?
Means he came on a visit and hasn't signed anywhere yet. Andrew is a potential kicker/punter so I'm assuming we still have interest.
And having a kicker that played safety is good as our kickers always seem to get some tackles...
And having a punter that played QB, well opens up the 4th and short run/pass options.
And he is both.
Also a 4.5 GPA and a 1440 SAT guy. Wouldn't have to spend any football money on him, I wouldn't think. Or maybe I'm misunderstanding that process. I never had the problem of my academic and athletic scholarships overlapping.
That’s not allowed.
Makes sense...pretty easy to beat the system that way. But still, always good to have a good athlete with good grades and presumably good character.
Andrew is looking for a school, he will be able to play QB at.
Sounds like Andrew changed his mind and will be heading to MSU to kick.
Heard the same thing.
I saw online that the MIT football team was looking at him. I didn’t even realize MIT had a football team (Div III). He must have an impressive academic resume.
He's the one who had the 4.5 GPA and 1440 SAT score. Impressive kid, I'd love for him to be part of the program. If he's any good at football that's just a bonus!
Re: 2019 MSU Recruiting (30 Signees)
Posted: Wed Feb 13, 2019 1:53 pm
by gtapp
kennethnoisewater wrote: ↑Wed Feb 13, 2019 1:49 pm
AFCAT wrote: ↑Wed Feb 13, 2019 1:18 pm
msufaithful wrote: ↑Wed Feb 13, 2019 12:08 pm
2-B-Champ wrote: ↑Wed Feb 13, 2019 7:40 am
2-B-Champ wrote: ↑Tue Feb 12, 2019 1:44 pm
kennethnoisewater wrote: ↑Tue Feb 12, 2019 1:29 pm
iaafan wrote: ↑Tue Feb 12, 2019 12:44 pm
kennethnoisewater wrote: ↑Tue Feb 12, 2019 12:23 pm
Montanabob wrote: ↑Tue Feb 12, 2019 12:16 pm
VimSince03 wrote: ↑Mon Feb 11, 2019 7:14 pm
Means he came on a visit and hasn't signed anywhere yet. Andrew is a potential kicker/punter so I'm assuming we still have interest.
And having a kicker that played safety is good as our kickers always seem to get some tackles...
And having a punter that played QB, well opens up the 4th and short run/pass options.
And he is both.
Also a 4.5 GPA and a 1440 SAT guy. Wouldn't have to spend any football money on him, I wouldn't think. Or maybe I'm misunderstanding that process. I never had the problem of my academic and athletic scholarships overlapping.
That’s not allowed.
Makes sense...pretty easy to beat the system that way. But still, always good to have a good athlete with good grades and presumably good character.
Andrew is looking for a school, he will be able to play QB at.
Sounds like Andrew changed his mind and will be heading to MSU to kick.
Heard the same thing.
I saw online that the MIT football team was looking at him. I didn’t even realize MIT had a football team (Div III). He must have an impressive academic resume.
He's the one who had the 4.5 GPA and 1440 SAT score. Impressive kid, I'd love for him to be part of the program. If he's any good at football that's just a bonus!
If a kid like that picks MSU that says as much about our school as it does about the football program.
Re: 2019 MSU Recruiting (30 Signees)
Posted: Thu Feb 14, 2019 8:59 pm
by RobertCats
Re: 2019 MSU Recruiting (30 Signees)
Posted: Thu Feb 14, 2019 10:17 pm
by 91catAlum
Also has an offer from Iowa State, and has the tweeet pinned...
Re: 2019 MSU Recruiting (30 Signees)
Posted: Fri Feb 15, 2019 9:02 am
by luckyirishguy25
For all you guys that like to talk about star ratings here's what they're worth.
Re: 2019 MSU Recruiting (30 Signees)
Posted: Fri Feb 15, 2019 10:29 am
by VimSince03
luckyirishguy25 wrote: ↑Fri Feb 15, 2019 9:02 am
For all you guys that like to talk about star ratings here's what they're worth.
I'VE BEEN SAYING THIS FOR THE PAST FEW YEARS!!!! THEY LITERALLY RANK KIDS BASED OFF THE OFFERS THEY HAVE!
Like I've stated in other threads, there were several out-of-state recruits who committed to the Cats/Griz the past few years in late January. They were unranked prior to signing. After signing/committing, they received either a 2-star or 3-star ranking! Just like that!
It makes no sense. Star ratings are directly based off the offers the kid holds in 247/Rival's database...and those offers may not even be correct or updated.
Re: 2019 MSU Recruiting (30 Signees)
Posted: Fri Feb 15, 2019 10:36 am
by CelticCat
VimSince03 wrote: ↑Fri Feb 15, 2019 10:29 am
luckyirishguy25 wrote: ↑Fri Feb 15, 2019 9:02 am
For all you guys that like to talk about star ratings here's what they're worth.
I'VE BEEN SAYING THIS FOR THE PAST FEW YEARS!!!! THEY LITERALLY RANK KIDS BASED OFF THE OFFERS THEY HAVE!
Like I've stated in other threads, there were several out-of-state recruits who committed to the Cats/Griz the past few years in late January. They were unranked prior to signing. After signing/committing, they received either a 2-star or 3-star ranking! Just like that!
It makes no sense. Star ratings are directly based off the offers the kid holds in 247/Rival's database...and those offers may not even be correct or updated.
There's been many times listening or reading Skyline's stuff, and he will list the offers a kid had and it doesn't match up with 247. Usually what Skyline reports is a lot more than you can see in 247.
Re: 2019 MSU Recruiting (30 Signees)
Posted: Fri Feb 15, 2019 2:12 pm
by iaafan
I do reference the star ratings, but I don’t assume they’re going to be perfect. From 2016-18 MSU signed 42 star rated players of those 19 are currently making significant contributions. During that same period MSU has signed 55 no star rating players and 11 are currently making significant contributions. That’s 45% to 20%. So it’s difficult for me to just say star ratings don’t matter. It isn’t a be-all, end-all factor, but it does give some indication.