Chris Murray

[iaafan]

[quote="luckyirishguy25"][quote="Hawks86"]So, in summary. The passing game has quite a few problems with many solutions.[/quote]
Didn't you realize BCN was full of former NFL QB's? I kid, but I think we should all realize we're heading in a good direction and let the coaches do their jobs.

Enjoy the rest of the Season guys. Its going to be another short one, with a long off-season. Enjoy what we have while we have it.[/quote]


Telling everyone to give up on the season isn't quite the same as telling everyone it ain't over yet. If you want to believe this season is over then tell it to yourself. I'll "enjoy" still being in the playoff race until we're mathematically eliminated. We've overcome worse odds than this before.

[LTown Cat]

This isn't an offensive coordinator issue as some suggest.

We had every chance to beat ewu and honestly should have. 3 fumbles in the red zone? That's just crap focus.

The reason we don't throw 20-30 times a game is Murray (while improving over last year) is still not making his full progressions and still making poor reads, again he has definitely progressed from last year. And the coaches (rightfully) believe we can consistently put our team in a position to move the ball being a run based team.

I'd much rather get 2-3 first downs then have to punt then throw 3 times and get a 3and out or a pick.




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Preach!

[BigBruceBaker]

This isn't an offensive coordinator issue as some suggest.

We had every chance to beat ewu and honestly should have. 3 fumbles in the red zone? That's just crap focus.

The reason we don't throw 20-30 times a game is Murray (while improving over last year) is still not making his full progressions and still making poor reads, again he has definitely progressed from last year. And the coaches (rightfully) believe we can consistently put our team in a position to move the ball being a run based team.

I'd much rather get 2-3 first downs then have to punt then throw 3 times and get a 3and out or a pick.




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Preach!

I should have also said, when we run as much as we do it can and will open up the passing lanes for easier reads and throws for Chris. When we run it 13 times in a row it sets up 25-35 yard throws down the field, now he needs to hit those receivers and the receivers need to get open and catch the ball, but that's a different story.

[Mr Lisle]

One of the stats not shown on mslacatfans much appreciated "Record Watch" is "passing yards". It looks like Chis took over as starter in last years NAU game, so in essence he has by now completed a "full season" of games. He is by now the number 2 all-time rushing quarterback! He's on or closing in on every other ground game category.
Those numbers for a guy with 12 or so starts under his belt would indicate "greatness". But Chris is a long way from "great". However, he can run the ball with the best of them. When DeNarius McGhee (pretty darn great or close thereto) finished his freshman year he had passed for 3,175 yards. Murray after 2016 (6 starts) and 6 games into 2017 has thrown for 1,584 yards...rushed for 1,491. Many of those rushing yards, probably the majority came from passing plays that broke down. Although it can make for sometimes exciting football, you're not going to make a living on broken plays. That part of the game needs to be fixed. Few teams today truly play "down hill, smash mouth" football. Guys like Chris Peterson and even Nick Saban have highly talented quarterback who throw the ball well. They are very balanced.
The Bobcat passing game needs to improve and improve greatly if things are going to move forward. It's not all on Murray. I've seen him stand and even run around in the pocket either unable to locate a receiver or getting pressure before taking off. But other times he takes off way to soon....he trusts his wheels more than his arm. He is certainly part of the problem. Part of it is the passing game design. We have some darn good receivers, but there are progression problems. Last year a poster said our offensive game plan is Murray running for his life. That element still exists. This has to be fixed. A sophomore quarterback in a solid offensive design should not at once be the number 2 all-time QB rusher and not showing up in passing stats. Maybe in 1957, but not 2017.

[iaafan]

Triple Bs is on fire!!

[GoCats18]

I think it is stupid to blame not passing the ball on the wind. PSU passed for 300+ and EWU 225 against us in the wind. We have three receivers that if Gubrud was throwing to he would be throwing over 500 yards every game. I think Murray has come a long way, does some amazing things, but I wonder how far he can carry us. This offense is not working. I thought Messingham was pretty bad at play calling, I am starting to have those same feelings. I get that the run is working for us, but that should only help the passing game. As I have said before, how do you go recruit receivers or keep the really good ones you have if all they do is block for running backs all game. Talent is being wasted and that sucks to see. Herbert should have easily had over 1000 yards this season, Kassis should be over 1000 yards each season. Like I said, there is a lot of great things about Murray, but we need to have a passing game that we can count on to win games when needed.

FWIW, Messingham is running the #1 scoring offense in all of FCS football right now. Messingham's O is ahead of EWU in total offense. I'm pretty sure that the offensive struggles aren't due to the coaching.

I would expect that, being that NDSU is a powerhouse and has a team that should be playing in the FBS. Last year though, and granted he didn't get much help from 2 QB's and a young team, his play calling was not that great. Coaches make players better, I didn't see him do much to help. He did have a pretty sweet mustache though.

[BigBruceBaker]

I think it is stupid to blame not passing the ball on the wind. PSU passed for 300+ and EWU 225 against us in the wind. We have three receivers that if Gubrud was throwing to he would be throwing over 500 yards every game. I think Murray has come a long way, does some amazing things, but I wonder how far he can carry us. This offense is not working. I thought Messingham was pretty bad at play calling, I am starting to have those same feelings. I get that the run is working for us, but that should only help the passing game. As I have said before, how do you go recruit receivers or keep the really good ones you have if all they do is block for running backs all game. Talent is being wasted and that sucks to see. Herbert should have easily had over 1000 yards this season, Kassis should be over 1000 yards each season. Like I said, there is a lot of great things about Murray, but we need to have a passing game that we can count on to win games when needed.

FWIW, Messingham is running the #1 scoring offense in all of FCS football right now. Messingham's O is ahead of EWU in total offense. I'm pretty sure that the offensive struggles aren't due to the coaching.

I would expect that, being that NDSU is a powerhouse and has a team that should be playing in the FBS. Last year though, and granted he didn't get much help from 2 QB's and a young team, his play calling was not that great. Coaches make players better, I didn't see him do much to help. He did have a pretty sweet mustache though.

With my madden playbook I could run the #1 offense in FCS with the bison players.

[GoCats18]

Exactly BBB. Anyone could coach NDSU and be productive.

[DriscollCat]

Come on guys. NDSU wouldn't be at the top if they hired bad coaches. No matter how you slice it, Messingham is a good coach.

Cramsey is having success as well.

Edit:fixed typo

[Hawks86]

[BigBruceBaker]

Come in guys. NDSU wouldn't be at the top if they hired bad coaches. No matter how you slice it, Messingham is a good coach.

Cramsey is having success as well.

I disagree on Messingham. Just because he is seeing success with, quite literally, the best football program ever in FCS 1-AA history doesn't mean he is a great coach. His past history as a coach is suspect at best.

I'm not sure anyone would suggest cramsey is a poor coach. And if they did they would be wrong. You might not like the guy (he could be divisive) but he could coach.


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[DriscollCat]

Come in guys. NDSU wouldn't be at the top if they hired bad coaches. No matter how you slice it, Messingham is a good coach.

Cramsey is having success as well.

I disagree on Messingham. Just because he is seeing success with, quite literally, the best football program ever in FCS 1-AA history doesn't mean he is a great coach. His past history as a coach is suspect at best.

I'm not sure anyone would suggest cramsey is a poor coach. And if they did they would be wrong. You might not like the guy (he could be divisive) but he could coach.

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Let me put it this way, if someone is hired as an executive at GE, you can bet that they are a quality decision maker. Not because of the success of their division of the company, but because the people who hire executives at GE are very good at their job, and understand what makes a good executive better than you do.

[Grizaddict]

Exactly BBB. Anyone could coach NDSU and be productive.

Mess looks like he's doing a great job over there but you got to keep in mind that the bison schedule thus far has been one of the weakest in all of FCS. It probably improved a little bit since playing Youngstown State but last week when I looked it was ranked like 220 out of 250 as far as scheduling composite via sagarin.

[luckyirishguy25]

Telling everyone to give up on the season isn't quite the same as telling everyone it ain't over yet. If you want to believe this season is over then tell it to yourself. I'll "enjoy" still being in the playoff race until we're mathematically eliminated. We've overcome worse odds than this before.

Read what into that what you want too. I'm not sure how telling people to enjoy what we have is giving up on the season.

[luckyirishguy25]

Exactly BBB. Anyone could coach NDSU and be productive.

Mess looks like he's doing a great job over there but you got to keep in mind that the bison schedule thus far has been one of the weakest in all of FCS. It probably improved a little bit since playing Youngstown State but last week when I looked it was ranked like 220 out of 250 as far as scheduling composite via sagarin.

Mez is a good coach, we just didn't have the cogs needed to do what he wanted to do. We really still don't have all the cogs we need to do what Choate wants to do. We'll get there though. NDSU was a perfect fit for Mez IMO.

[BigBruceBaker]

Come in guys. NDSU wouldn't be at the top if they hired bad coaches. No matter how you slice it, Messingham is a good coach.

Cramsey is having success as well.

I disagree on Messingham. Just because he is seeing success with, quite literally, the best football program ever in FCS 1-AA history doesn't mean he is a great coach. His past history as a coach is suspect at best.

I'm not sure anyone would suggest cramsey is a poor coach. And if they did they would be wrong. You might not like the guy (he could be divisive) but he could coach.

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Let me put it this way, if someone is hired as an executive at GE, you can bet that they are a quality decision maker. Not because of the success of their division of the company, but because the people who hire executives at GE are very good at their job, and understand what makes a good executive better than you do.

I'm not trying to be argumentative but your theory is wrong.

What you are saying is any successful company (or team) always makes the correct decision when hiring a new executive/manager (or coordinator). Suggesting such a thing means turnover wouldn't happen, firings and mutual decisions to part ways wouldn't happen at those companies or teams. This is incorrect.

I am really good at what I do (not bragging) and I've hired managers that are SURE THINGS, they are smart, educated, witty, have great references etc. They joined our teams and our company as a whole was still very successful, but they didn't fit. They did ok but it was obvious I made a mistake with the hire. This happens at every fortune 500 company weekly/monthly/yearly. Again suggesting otherwise would go against the principle that human beings are flawed and we make mistakes. Any business/team in the world has people that seem like great fits that end up hurting the company in the long run, and it's every bosses hope to get rid of the bad apples before they can spoil the entire company or division.

Also every business/team has divisions or areas of their company with less than stellar leadership that the individuals or "workers" make their boss or manager look good due to their proficiencies in their own jobs. Their divisions succeed in spite of the leadership, not because of it.

[DriscollCat]

Come in guys. NDSU wouldn't be at the top if they hired bad coaches. No matter how you slice it, Messingham is a good coach.

Cramsey is having success as well.

I disagree on Messingham. Just because he is seeing success with, quite literally, the best football program ever in FCS 1-AA history doesn't mean he is a great coach. His past history as a coach is suspect at best.

I'm not sure anyone would suggest cramsey is a poor coach. And if they did they would be wrong. You might not like the guy (he could be divisive) but he could coach.

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Let me put it this way, if someone is hired as an executive at GE, you can bet that they are a quality decision maker. Not because of the success of their division of the company, but because the people who hire executives at GE are very good at their job, and understand what makes a good executive better than you do.

I'm not trying to be argumentative but your theory is wrong.

What you are saying is any successful company (or team) always makes the correct decision when hiring a new executive/manager (or coordinator). Suggesting such a thing means turnover wouldn't happen, firings and mutual decisions to part ways wouldn't happen at those companies or teams. This is incorrect.

I am really good at what I do (not bragging) and I've hired managers that are SURE THINGS, they are smart, educated, witty, have great references etc. They joined our teams and our company as a whole was still very successful, but they didn't fit. They did ok but it was obvious I made a mistake with the hire. This happens at every fortune 500 company weekly/monthly/yearly. Again suggesting otherwise would go against the principle that human beings are flawed and we make mistakes. Any business/team in the world has people that seem like great fits that end up hurting the company in the long run, and it's every bosses hope to get rid of the bad apples before they can spoil the entire company or division.

Also every business/team has divisions or areas of their company with less than stellar leadership that the individuals or "workers" make their boss or manager look good due to their proficiencies in their own jobs. Their divisions succeed in spite of the leadership, not because of it.

I am not saying that anyone always makes the right decision. I am saying that hiring Messingham shows that NDSU sees him as a good coach, and that their assessment of coaches is better than yours and mine.

[BigBruceBaker]

That's fair that they think he is a good coach, I'm assuming they wouldn't have hired someone if they didn't think he was good. I don't think he is a great coach due to his 20 odd years of coaching that I looked at and the sample of him during his year with the Cats.

I have no doubt he will be successful at NDSU due to the level of athlete they get and currently have on their roster. Time will tell if they excel because of him or in spite of him.

[DriscollCat]

That's fair that they think he is a good coach, I'm assuming they wouldn't have hired someone if they didn't think he was good. I don't think he is a great coach due to his 20 odd years of coaching that I looked at and the sample of him during his year with the Cats.

I have no doubt he will be successful at NDSU due to the level of athlete they get and currently have on their roster. Time will tell if they excel because of him or in spite of him.

Fair enough

[Team10]

I see you found the highlight video from my college intramural and city league football days.