Scrimmage 8/12

[Hawks86]

Wish they would have passed the new red-shirt rules for this year. Freshman could participate in 4 games and still get a red-shirt.

https://www.sbnation.com/college-footba ... s-redshirt

[CatBlitz]

Some highlights:

http://www.swxrightnow.com/story/361261 ... -scrimmage

http://www.montanasports.com/2017/08/12 ... dominates/

Thank you!

[VimSince03]

Some highlights:

http://www.swxrightnow.com/story/361261 ... -scrimmage

http://www.montanasports.com/2017/08/12 ... dominates/

Thank you!

Murray's footwork looks sooooooooooooooooo much better. Again, he is far from a finished product but its painfully obvious Denarius has been working hard on his footwork.

[CelticCat]

Some highlights:

http://www.swxrightnow.com/story/361261 ... -scrimmage

http://www.montanasports.com/2017/08/12 ... dominates/

Thank you!

Murray's footwork looks sooooooooooooooooo much better. Again, he is far from a finished product but its painfully obvious Denarius has been working hard on his footwork.

THe TD pass where he escaped the pocket, rolled to his right and found Herbert reminded me so much of a McGhee play. Quickness, but using that quickness to extend plays rather than to run, and he kept his eyes down the field the whole time.

[The MICKSTER]

This is still a rebuilding phase in my opinion. Hopefully I'm wrong and we come out and win 7 or 8 games, but I think 5-6 is realistic. In that vein, you redshirt any guy you think is your future.

As always we think pretty much alike. I think we redshirt anyone that won't contribute on more than 40% of plays. It's a waste of talent imo.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I think we will be GREATLY improved from last year, especially on offense, and I think scrimmage #1 backs that up. However, due to our schedule my best guess for how this season ends up is 5-6 as well. I can see us easily being either 1-5 or 2-4 after our first 6 games....@Wazzu, SDSU, @ND, WSU, PSU, @EWU. I see us getting better as the year goes on (just like last year) and finishing strong. I think our chances of finishing better than 5-6 is greater than finishing worse.

As far as redshirting Rovig, it is way to early to tell. After all there wasn't too many people a year ago thinking that 17 year old Murray wouldn't be redshirted. My WAG at this point is that Rovig will be redshirted because it appears Murray has taken big steps in his confidence, leadership and passing ability, and, this year we have other options. Also, if Murray is the QB now, and is still 18 years old, it seems logical that you'd want to redshirt Rovig (who is also 18 I believe) so that when Murray graduates Rovig would be 'the guy' for 2 full years......but that's looking way far ahead.

I was optimistic about this team before Fall camp, but after the 1st scrimmage my optimism has taken a step up because I was more concerned about the offense than the defense. I think the defense will get corrected, and hope the offense continues their improvement. GO CATS!

[CelticCat]

This is still a rebuilding phase in my opinion. Hopefully I'm wrong and we come out and win 7 or 8 games, but I think 5-6 is realistic. In that vein, you redshirt any guy you think is your future.

As always we think pretty much alike. I think we redshirt anyone that won't contribute on more than 40% of plays. It's a waste of talent imo.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I think we will be GREATLY improved from last year, especially on offense, and I think scrimmage #1 backs that up. However, due to our schedule my best guess for how this season ends up is 5-6 as well. I can see us easily being either 1-5 or 2-4 after our first 6 games....@Wazzu, SDSU, @ND, WSU, PSU, @EWU. I see us getting better as the year goes on (just like last year) and finishing strong. I think our chances of finishing better than 5-6 is greater than finishing worse.

As far as redshirting Rovig, it is way to early to tell. After all there wasn't too many people a year ago thinking that 17 year old Murray wouldn't be redshirted. My WAG at this point is that Rovig will be redshirted because it appears Murray has taken big steps in his confidence, leadership and passing ability, and, this year we have other options. Also, if Murray is the QB now, and is still 18 years old, it seems logical that you'd want to redshirt Rovig (who is also 18 I believe) so that when Murray graduates Rovig would be 'the guy' for 2 full years......but that's looking way far ahead.

I was optimistic about this team before Fall camp, but after the 1st scrimmage my optimism has taken a step up because I was more concerned about the offense than the defense. I think the defense will get corrected, and hope the offense continues their improvement. GO CATS!

Not gonna lie, I'm more optimistic after the first scrimmage as well, and watching the videos of how Murray looks in the pocket. Obviously that is an extremely small sample, and not a real game, but he looks vastly improved. Couple that with Coach Armstrong seemingly revamping the offense to suit Murray's play style, and I think we may actually score some points this year, and sustain some drives.

I was however disappointed to see our secondary get burned on miscues. McCabe, Garcia and Konkol have enough experience between them they shouldn't be blowing any coverages. It should get fixed though, that stuff is easier to fix, so I'm not worried... yet.

[mslacatfan]

This is still a rebuilding phase in my opinion. Hopefully I'm wrong and we come out and win 7 or 8 games, but I think 5-6 is realistic. In that vein, you redshirt any guy you think is your future.

As always we think pretty much alike. I think we redshirt anyone that won't contribute on more than 40% of plays. It's a waste of talent imo.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

agree 100% It drives me frickin nuts when they waste a players redshirt year and they end up having 3 productive years ahead of them, when it could have been 4.

Alex Singleton is always the best example I can think of- Played 4 years, his true freshman year consisted of about 3 plays on special teams (instead of redshirting)..... Can you imagine the damage he would have done if he had redshirted that year and been able to come back for another year as a 5th year senior........ All American potential.

[Hi-Line Bobcat]

Can someone please tell me what "burning your redshirt year or wasting their red shirt year" means? You can redshirt when you want and why do people automatically think that if you sit out your first year you will be better off compared to someone who plays sparingly his first year and then a lot his next three years? Getting some playing time your true freshman year can sometimes be more beneficial than redshirting, wouldn't you agree? Playing as a true freshman can also be a recruiting tool as well. If you just went by the idea that you play the best players no matter what, then what the hell are we even talking about?

Edit: I'm not specifically saying anything to you Mslacat, i'm just speaking in general.

[BigBruceBaker]

Can someone please tell me what "burning your redshirt year or wasting their red shirt year" means? You can redshirt when you want and why do people automatically think that if you sit out your first year you will be better off compared to someone who plays sparingly his first year and then a lot his next three years? Getting some playing time your true freshman year can sometimes be more beneficial than redshirting, wouldn't you agree? Playing as a true freshman can also be a recruiting tool as well. If you just went by the idea that you play the best players no matter what, then what the hell are we even talking about?

Edit: I'm not specifically saying anything to you Mslacat, i'm just speaking in general.

I guest I look at it like this Hi-Line, and i'll try and keep it short and on point haha:

1. Most incoming freshman are not as physically mature, muscles, speed etc, as a sophomore or older player. I think we can all agree a 22 year old is much more likely to be in the best shape of their lives with college strength and conditioning, than an 18 year old kid, that had lifted and ran some.

2. If said incoming freshman doesn't improve the position that he is playing a substantial amount, over current production, or is a game changer due to speed or some other attribute then he should red-shirt to give him time to mature physically.

3. Playing 10 downs a game or less does not provide exceptional growth opportunities and does very little for the growth of the player OVER a red shirt year.
4. My thing is all things being equal a guy that has a chance to contribute "some" or "sparingly" his true freshman year is much better served to red-shirt and gain valuable maturity in size and knowledge of the game. He will be a more complete player going into his rs-freshman year and will be more likely to earn a competitive spot or push for a starting job.

Again I think you have to look at all things being equal, so if a guy truly has the ability to perform at a very high level and play over 40-50% of the snaps of the season (barring injuries) then I am all for playing him. However to waste a "free" year (redshirting) on a few plays that doesn't determine the outcome of the game is a poor strategy for a coach and program.

I hope this makes sense, much easier to discuss over a beer than typing.

[LTown Cat]

Can someone please tell me what "burning your redshirt year or wasting their red shirt year" means? You can redshirt when you want and why do people automatically think that if you sit out your first year you will be better off compared to someone who plays sparingly his first year and then a lot his next three years? Getting some playing time your true freshman year can sometimes be more beneficial than redshirting, wouldn't you agree? Playing as a true freshman can also be a recruiting tool as well. If you just went by the idea that you play the best players no matter what, then what the hell are we even talking about?

Edit: I'm not specifically saying anything to you Mslacat, i'm just speaking in general.

I guest I look at it like this Hi-Line, and i'll try and keep it short and on point haha:

1. Most incoming freshman are not as physically mature, muscles, speed etc, as a sophomore or older player. I think we can all agree a 22 year old is much more likely to be in the best shape of their lives with college strength and conditioning, than an 18 year old kid, that had lifted and ran some.

2. If said incoming freshman doesn't improve the position that he is playing a substantial amount, over current production, or is a game changer due to speed or some other attribute then he should red-shirt to give him time to mature physically.

3. Playing 10 downs a game or less does not provide exceptional growth opportunities and does very little for the growth of the player OVER a red shirt year.
4. My thing is all things being equal a guy that has a chance to contribute "some" or "sparingly" his true freshman year is much better served to red-shirt and gain valuable maturity in size and knowledge of the game. He will be a more complete player going into his rs-freshman year and will be more likely to earn a competitive spot or push for a starting job.

Again I think you have to look at all things being equal, so if a guy truly has the ability to perform at a very high level and play over 40-50% of the snaps of the season (barring injuries) then I am all for playing him. However to waste a "free" year (redshirting) on a few plays that doesn't determine the outcome of the game is a poor strategy for a coach and program.

I hope this makes sense, much easier to discuss over a beer than typing.

It's a tough issue. There are great arguments either way. Look at Jacob Hadley--had he redshirted last year he would lose a year of eligibility this year. Sometimes saving it is a good thing in case of a season ending injury.

[HelenaCat95]

Can someone please tell me what "burning your redshirt year or wasting their red shirt year" means? You can redshirt when you want and why do people automatically think that if you sit out your first year you will be better off compared to someone who plays sparingly his first year and then a lot his next three years? Getting some playing time your true freshman year can sometimes be more beneficial than redshirting, wouldn't you agree? Playing as a true freshman can also be a recruiting tool as well. If you just went by the idea that you play the best players no matter what, then what the hell are we even talking about?

Edit: I'm not specifically saying anything to you Mslacat, i'm just speaking in general.

I guest I look at it like this Hi-Line, and i'll try and keep it short and on point haha:

1. Most incoming freshman are not as physically mature, muscles, speed etc, as a sophomore or older player. I think we can all agree a 22 year old is much more likely to be in the best shape of their lives with college strength and conditioning, than an 18 year old kid, that had lifted and ran some.

2. If said incoming freshman doesn't improve the position that he is playing a substantial amount, over current production, or is a game changer due to speed or some other attribute then he should red-shirt to give him time to mature physically.

3. Playing 10 downs a game or less does not provide exceptional growth opportunities and does very little for the growth of the player OVER a red shirt year.
4. My thing is all things being equal a guy that has a chance to contribute "some" or "sparingly" his true freshman year is much better served to red-shirt and gain valuable maturity in size and knowledge of the game. He will be a more complete player going into his rs-freshman year and will be more likely to earn a competitive spot or push for a starting job.

Again I think you have to look at all things being equal, so if a guy truly has the ability to perform at a very high level and play over 40-50% of the snaps of the season (barring injuries) then I am all for playing him. However to waste a "free" year (redshirting) on a few plays that doesn't determine the outcome of the game is a poor strategy for a coach and program.

I hope this makes sense, much easier to discuss over a beer than typing.

It's a tough issue. There are great arguments either way. Look at Jacob Hadley--had he redshirted last year he would lose a year of eligibility this year. Sometimes saving it is a good thing in case of a season ending injury.

All great points.
There's also the academic and social maturation process that takes place. We all concentrate on their roles on the field, but there is their role as a student to take into consideration as well.
The decision to red-shirt or not is one that needs to take all of this under advisement, and consult with the player, position coach, coordinator and parent/guardian.

One other question that I don't know that answer to. If you red-shirt, you will most likely be on scholarship for 5 years. If you play right away, do you still get that 5th year paid for?

[RobertCats]

Some highlights:

http://www.swxrightnow.com/story/361261 ... -scrimmage

http://www.montanasports.com/2017/08/12 ... dominates/

Thank you!

Murray's footwork looks sooooooooooooooooo much better. Again, he is far from a finished product but its painfully obvious Denarius has been working hard on his footwork.

THe TD pass where he escaped the pocket, rolled to his right and found Herbert reminded me so much of a McGhee play. Quickness, but using that quickness to extend plays rather than to run, and he kept his eyes down the field the whole time.

Loved that play, there is one other play that excites me even more than that one and it was not even a touchdown. 3rd and 14 in the shadow of the end zone and he stands tall in the pocket and fires a STRIKE to Herbert for 14 and half to get the first down. He hits Herbert right as he is coming out of his break and puts it right on his back shoulder where the ball is either going to be caught by the offense or fall to the turf. That is a grown man throw and shows tremendous growth as a passer.

[bobcat99]

Can someone please tell me what "burning your redshirt year or wasting their red shirt year" means? You can redshirt when you want and why do people automatically think that if you sit out your first year you will be better off compared to someone who plays sparingly his first year and then a lot his next three years? Getting some playing time your true freshman year can sometimes be more beneficial than redshirting, wouldn't you agree? Playing as a true freshman can also be a recruiting tool as well. If you just went by the idea that you play the best players no matter what, then what the hell are we even talking about?

Edit: I'm not specifically saying anything to you Mslacat, i'm just speaking in general.

I guest I look at it like this Hi-Line, and i'll try and keep it short and on point haha:

1. Most incoming freshman are not as physically mature, muscles, speed etc, as a sophomore or older player. I think we can all agree a 22 year old is much more likely to be in the best shape of their lives with college strength and conditioning, than an 18 year old kid, that had lifted and ran some.

2. If said incoming freshman doesn't improve the position that he is playing a substantial amount, over current production, or is a game changer due to speed or some other attribute then he should red-shirt to give him time to mature physically.

3. Playing 10 downs a game or less does not provide exceptional growth opportunities and does very little for the growth of the player OVER a red shirt year.
4. My thing is all things being equal a guy that has a chance to contribute "some" or "sparingly" his true freshman year is much better served to red-shirt and gain valuable maturity in size and knowledge of the game. He will be a more complete player going into his rs-freshman year and will be more likely to earn a competitive spot or push for a starting job.

Again I think you have to look at all things being equal, so if a guy truly has the ability to perform at a very high level and play over 40-50% of the snaps of the season (barring injuries) then I am all for playing him. However to waste a "free" year (redshirting) on a few plays that doesn't determine the outcome of the game is a poor strategy for a coach and program.

I hope this makes sense, much easier to discuss over a beer than typing.

It's a tough issue. There are great arguments either way. Look at Jacob Hadley--had he redshirted last year he would lose a year of eligibility this year. Sometimes saving it is a good thing in case of a season ending injury.

Somehow he did redshirt last year.

Colter can confirm, but pretty sure he was given a redshirt.

He can use a medical redshirt this year I would imagine. You see a few 6 year players here and there.

[BleedingBLue]

Can someone please tell me what "burning your redshirt year or wasting their red shirt year" means? You can redshirt when you want and why do people automatically think that if you sit out your first year you will be better off compared to someone who plays sparingly his first year and then a lot his next three years? Getting some playing time your true freshman year can sometimes be more beneficial than redshirting, wouldn't you agree? Playing as a true freshman can also be a recruiting tool as well. If you just went by the idea that you play the best players no matter what, then what the hell are we even talking about?

Edit: I'm not specifically saying anything to you Mslacat, i'm just speaking in general.

I guest I look at it like this Hi-Line, and i'll try and keep it short and on point haha:

1. Most incoming freshman are not as physically mature, muscles, speed etc, as a sophomore or older player. I think we can all agree a 22 year old is much more likely to be in the best shape of their lives with college strength and conditioning, than an 18 year old kid, that had lifted and ran some.

2. If said incoming freshman doesn't improve the position that he is playing a substantial amount, over current production, or is a game changer due to speed or some other attribute then he should red-shirt to give him time to mature physically.

3. Playing 10 downs a game or less does not provide exceptional growth opportunities and does very little for the growth of the player OVER a red shirt year.
4. My thing is all things being equal a guy that has a chance to contribute "some" or "sparingly" his true freshman year is much better served to red-shirt and gain valuable maturity in size and knowledge of the game. He will be a more complete player going into his rs-freshman year and will be more likely to earn a competitive spot or push for a starting job.

Again I think you have to look at all things being equal, so if a guy truly has the ability to perform at a very high level and play over 40-50% of the snaps of the season (barring injuries) then I am all for playing him. However to waste a "free" year (redshirting) on a few plays that doesn't determine the outcome of the game is a poor strategy for a coach and program.

I hope this makes sense, much easier to discuss over a beer than typing.

It's a tough issue. There are great arguments either way. Look at Jacob Hadley--had he redshirted last year he would lose a year of eligibility this year. Sometimes saving it is a good thing in case of a season ending injury.

Somehow he did redshirt last year.

Colter can confirm, but pretty sure he was given a redshirt.

He can use a medical redshirt this year I would imagine. You see a few 6 year players here and there.

The 6th year medical hardship thing happens more than people think. He will have to go through a whole process to gain a 6th year of eligiblity, but most likely he will get it. And the redshirt last year was because he played less than a certain % of the teams snaps, or less than a certain amount of snaps I think. The new 4 game rule will really help with redshirting guys, or not redshirting them. Because coaches will be able to see if a guy can truly contribute.

To Hi Line's point, I think most fans look at it this way. If a guy doesn't redshirt his freshman year, he never will, unless he gets injured. There are not a lot of cases where a kid plays, or doesn't play his freshman year but doesn't redshirt, and later in his career redshirts. I don't think many players would take kindly to redshirting as a veteran either.

[TomCat88]

Some highlights:

http://www.swxrightnow.com/story/361261 ... -scrimmage

http://www.montanasports.com/2017/08/12 ... dominates/

Thank you!

Murray's footwork looks sooooooooooooooooo much better. Again, he is far from a finished product but its painfully obvious Denarius has been working hard on his footwork.

Not only is his footwork better, but his timing and location are better, and what's getting overlooked is the receivers are running much better routes. Every aspect of the passing game is better.

[bobcat99]

Can someone please tell me what "burning your redshirt year or wasting their red shirt year" means? You can redshirt when you want and why do people automatically think that if you sit out your first year you will be better off compared to someone who plays sparingly his first year and then a lot his next three years? Getting some playing time your true freshman year can sometimes be more beneficial than redshirting, wouldn't you agree? Playing as a true freshman can also be a recruiting tool as well. If you just went by the idea that you play the best players no matter what, then what the hell are we even talking about?

Edit: I'm not specifically saying anything to you Mslacat, i'm just speaking in general.

It's just a phrase. Obviously they can still use a redshirt, they don't just disappear if they haven't been used. It's just that typically, if you play as a freshman, you're not going to redshirt your soph, jr, or sr year. Now it seems like redshirt rules have changed, but it used to be if you played even a si for down, you couldn't redshirt, unless you qualified for a medical hardship.

I think it is better for freshman to redshirt. They're acclimating to several new things, such as where they live, more school than before, and better athletes. Some can do it, but at this level where guys don't leave early, it's better to redshirt them. Why? They're 18-19 year old freshman. If they redshirt, they'll be 23-24 year old seniors. 5 years of strength training, coaching, and maturity makes a huge difference. Now if we're championship hunting, and for example, coach think playing Derek Marks for 5-10 snaps a game increases our chances of winning, then you do that. If you're not championship hunting, redshirt him so he can be a 5th year senior. Ultimately, if he's the difference between 4 wins and 5 wins, it's meaningless. But if he's the difference between 10 wins or 11 wins, then that has an impact.

Make sense?

[catsrback76]

From TomCat quoting the BC on Monday's practice:

"Couple of tweets from Maletz today:

"Murray 3 for 3 on day's first red-ball session, with completions to Kassis, Herbert and Stephens #MSUBobcatsFB"

"Rovig first up for the No. 2s #MSUBobcatsFB"

Not sure what that says if anything, but I think it says something!