Gardenhire

[AFCAT]

I know most people would say to kick him to the curb and let him fend for himself, but I honestly don't have an issue with him coming back if the coaches and players allow it. We all make mistakes, some are worse that others, but we all have done stupid stuff in our lives. Kids today live on this whole won't get caught attitude and sometimes it takes getting caught to learn your lesson. I am sure Jimmy Wilson is thankful he got a second chance after killing a man, in self defense for his aunt. Sometimes you have to fall and fall hard to get back up and realize what you have. Only time will tell though.

Except this was his second chance. He quit Washington because he had to take a drug test, instead of taking it he quit. He didn't learn anything from that, so I don't know why anybody thinks he will learn from this. Wish him the best, but I hope he doesn't get a third chance at MSU, because he already made squandered his second chance here.

You don't know that for fact. Have you talked to coach? Have you talk to the reporter from the Seattle Times? Have you talked to the player? If you have, then please set me straight. Thanks.

Thank you! Bunch of jealous ****** who probably couldn't make their junior high cheerleading team wants the jocks to be perfect.

Hey, I may not have made the cheerleading team, but I did make the junior high intramural FOLF team and I'm damn proud of it. I was also arrested multiple times during my youth, but I was never convicted.

[TomCat88]

I would guess that you could make the argument that most the posters on this board have committed (although not charged with) a felony due to having been behind the wheel four times or more while over the limit on alcohol. I liken this charge to a DUI charge. Both are illegal and put lives at risk directly and indirectly.

[catscat]

I would guess that you could make the argument that most the posters on this board have committed (although not charged with) a felony due to having been behind the wheel four times or more while over the limit on alcohol. I liken this charge to a DUI charge. Both are illegal and put lives at risk directly and indirectly.

I suppose you could make that argument, but that doesn't make it a good one. Just because someone commits a felony and doesn't get caught is not justification for being lenient with someone that commits a felony and does get caught. I personally have zero tolerance for illegal drug users and/or distributors - whether caught or not. During my lifetime I have seen too many cases of illegal drugs screwing up young lives. I also believe that when it comes to illegal drugs, one bad apple can taint, if not spoil, the whole barrel. I'm surprised that so many on here are willing to overlook this. Seems a few short years ago everyone would have been calling for him to be gone, gone, gone - whether his first or second or subsequent "chance."

[iaafan]

I don't know all the details, but based on the UM player, it seems like it would be unfair to not let Gardenhire back on the team. Very similar circumstances it appears.

[Hawks86]

I don't know all the details, but based on the UM player, it seems like it would be unfair to not let Gardenhire back on the team. Very similar circumstances it appears.

Both schools have toughened their drug policies since 2012. Interestingly, MSU changed the policy mere hours before the arrests of Hale and Gardenhire.

http://www.bozemandailychronicle.com/ne ... 326b5.html

Reading between the lines. I think dealing is dealt with much more harshly than possession.

[91catAlum]

I would guess that you could make the argument that most the posters on this board have committed (although not charged with) a felony due to having been behind the wheel four times or more while over the limit on alcohol. I liken this charge to a DUI charge. Both are illegal and put lives at risk directly and indirectly.

I suppose you could make that argument, but that doesn't make it a good one. Just because someone commits a felony and doesn't get caught is not justification for being lenient with someone that commits a felony and does get caught. I personally have zero tolerance for illegal drug users and/or distributors - whether caught or not. During my lifetime I have seen too many cases of illegal drugs screwing up young lives. I also believe that when it comes to illegal drugs, one bad apple can taint, if not spoil, the whole barrel. I'm surprised that so many on here are willing to overlook this. Seems a few short years ago everyone would have been calling for him to be gone, gone, gone - whether his first or second or subsequent "chance."

I agree with you, I too have seen drugs screw up people's lives, including drugs everyone thinks "aren't that big of a deal."

While I respect Gardenhire for owning his mistake and hope the best for his future, he shouldn't get another chance with Bobcat football. Imagine the damage that would be done if he were let back on the team, and he got in trouble with drugs again, for his 3rd time. That's the kind of stuff that coaches get fired for, and would really leave a black eye on Choate trying to get hired somewhere else, and a black eye on the MSU program. If it were my decision I wouldn't take that chance.
If he wants to play football again it should be elsewhere.

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[Grizaddict]

I don't know all the details, but based on the UM player, it seems like it would be unfair to not let Gardenhire back on the team. Very similar circumstances it appears.

Both schools have toughened their drug policies since 2012. Interestingly, MSU changed the policy mere hours before the arrests of Hale and Gardenhire.

http://www.bozemandailychronicle.com/ne ... 326b5.html

Reading between the lines. I think dealing is dealt with much more harshly than possession.

To Vim's earlier point that it will be very difficult for him to even get back into MSU, let alone play football, here is a direct quote from your Dean of Students:

“If you’re a student and deal illegal drugs, for us it’s a suspendable offense,” Caires said. “We’re very strict on this kind of violation. This is not an offense where we usually give second chances.”

I'd say this kid has a long, uphill road just to get reinstated into school. I'm all for kids getting second chances. Coming to MSU was already his second chance. Unfortunately he blew that and he did that quickly.

[Hawks86]

To Vim's earlier point that it will be very difficult for him to even get back into MSU, let alone play football, here is a direct quote from your Dean of Students:

“If you’re a student and deal illegal drugs, for us it’s a suspendable offense,” Caires said. “We’re very strict on this kind of violation. This is not an offense where we usually give second chances.”

I'd say this kid has a long, uphill road just to get reinstated into school. I'm all for kids getting second chances. Coming to MSU was already his second chance. Unfortunately he blew that and he did that quickly.

Key word in that quote is "deal."

[iaafan]

No coach will get fired because a player is caught in "possession" of drugs once. "Dealing" drugs is a whole other ball game. If gardenhire is caught in possession of drugs again, he'd be kicked off the team. If coaches were fired for this every time it happened there would be no coaches left.

[91catAlum]

No coach will get fired because a player is caught in "possession" of drugs once. "Dealing" drugs is a whole other ball game. If gardenhire is caught in possession of drugs again, he'd be kicked off the team. If coaches were fired for this every time it happened there would be no coaches left.

Nobody said Choate should be fired for Gardenhire getting caught once. But he transferred here with a rumored drug issue already, and this "possession" is a felony whether you agree with the drug laws or not, he is now a felon. If he is let back on the team and screws up again, Choate will be in hot water. I say don't take the risk.

Tough to say if there wouldn't be any coaches left after a second strike, because not a lot of players get a second strike with the same team.

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[iaafan]

No coach is going to get fired or be in hot water over a rumor and a single felony possession charge against one player either. Choate will not be on the hot seat if Gardenhire was allowed back on the team and then was caught in possession again. The decision to allow him back is a group decision and Choate wouldn't be fired for it. Reasons are rarely given when a coach is fired. We are left to speculate. When it comes to drugs there's usually a pattern established that leads to a coach "resigning". Usually doesn't happen following a one player "pattern."

I agree it's a felony and I never said it wasn't, but it's felony possession not felony distribution. Whether you like it or not those aren't the same crimes. Distribution is much more severe.

[91catAlum]

No coach is going to get fired or be in hot water over a rumor and a single felony possession charge against one player either. Choate will not be on the hot seat if Gardenhire was allowed back on the team and then was caught in possession again. The decision to allow him back is a group decision and Choate wouldn't be fired for it. Reasons are rarely given when a coach is fired. We are left to speculate. When it comes to drugs there's usually a pattern established that leads to a coach "resigning". Usually doesn't happen following a one player "pattern."

I agree it's a felony and I never said it wasn't, but it's felony possession not felony distribution. Whether you like it or not those aren't the same crimes. Distribution is much more severe.

I agree with your second paragraph.

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[catatac]

This put a little shiner on our program, so personally I don't think he should come back, regardless of whether it a misdemeanor or not. He truly may be a great kid who made a mistake, but in this particular case Coach needs to separate himself from this ordeal as much as possible. There as a small minority who wanted Choate fired for this.

There was a Cat fan out there that wanted Choate fired for this?

Bump

[CelticCat]

This put a little shiner on our program, so personally I don't think he should come back, regardless of whether it a misdemeanor or not. He truly may be a great kid who made a mistake, but in this particular case Coach needs to separate himself from this ordeal as much as possible. There as a small minority who wanted Choate fired for this.

There was a Cat fan out there that wanted Choate fired for this?

Bump

Colter alluded to thinking it may a fireable offense, and I could've sworn there was a poster or two who agreed. I'm too lazy to look it up so I'll just say I was wrong and move on.

[catatac]

No worries, and I wasn't trying to call you out - in fact I agree there probably were people that were calling for his head. I was just trying to remember if anyone posted something to that effect here because I was going to tell them it was probably a knee jerkish reaction!

[KittieKop]

I know most people would say to kick him to the curb and let him fend for himself, but I honestly don't have an issue with him coming back if the coaches and players allow it. We all make mistakes, some are worse that others, but we all have done stupid stuff in our lives. Kids today live on this whole won't get caught attitude and sometimes it takes getting caught to learn your lesson. I am sure Jimmy Wilson is thankful he got a second chance after killing a man, in self defense for his aunt. Sometimes you have to fall and fall hard to get back up and realize what you have. Only time will tell though.

Except this was his second chance. He quit Washington because he had to take a drug test, instead of taking it he quit. He didn't learn anything from that, so I don't know why anybody thinks he will learn from this. Wish him the best, but I hope he doesn't get a third chance at MSU, because he already made squandered his second chance here.

You don't know that for fact. Have you talked to coach? Have you talk to the reporter from the Seattle Times? Have you talked to the player? If you have, then please set me straight. Thanks.

Thank you! Bunch of jealous ****** who probably couldn't make their junior high cheerleading team wants the jocks to be perfect.

Perfect? No. I'd just ask they're not convicted felon drug dealers. I don't feel that's too much to ask.

[KittieKop]

I don't know all the details, but based on the UM player, it seems like it would be unfair to not let Gardenhire back on the team. Very similar circumstances it appears.

Good thing life isn't fair.

[Hawks86]

Perfect? No. I'd just ask they're not convicted felon drug dealers. I don't feel that's too much to ask.

So, using that criteria, you're fine with him being back on the team at some point.

[91catAlum]

I know most people would say to kick him to the curb and let him fend for himself, but I honestly don't have an issue with him coming back if the coaches and players allow it. We all make mistakes, some are worse that others, but we all have done stupid stuff in our lives. Kids today live on this whole won't get caught attitude and sometimes it takes getting caught to learn your lesson. I am sure Jimmy Wilson is thankful he got a second chance after killing a man, in self defense for his aunt. Sometimes you have to fall and fall hard to get back up and realize what you have. Only time will tell though.

Except this was his second chance. He quit Washington because he had to take a drug test, instead of taking it he quit. He didn't learn anything from that, so I don't know why anybody thinks he will learn from this. Wish him the best, but I hope he doesn't get a third chance at MSU, because he already made squandered his second chance here.

You don't know that for fact. Have you talked to coach? Have you talk to the reporter from the Seattle Times? Have you talked to the player? If you have, then please set me straight. Thanks.

Thank you! Bunch of jealous ****** who probably couldn't make their junior high cheerleading team wants the jocks to be perfect.

Perfect? No. I'd just ask they're not convicted felon drug dealers. I don't feel that's too much to ask.

It's felony possession, not dealing.


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[grizzh8r]

I know most people would say to kick him to the curb and let him fend for himself, but I honestly don't have an issue with him coming back if the coaches and players allow it. We all make mistakes, some are worse that others, but we all have done stupid stuff in our lives. Kids today live on this whole won't get caught attitude and sometimes it takes getting caught to learn your lesson. I am sure Jimmy Wilson is thankful he got a second chance after killing a man, in self defense for his aunt. Sometimes you have to fall and fall hard to get back up and realize what you have. Only time will tell though.

Except this was his second chance. He quit Washington because he had to take a drug test, instead of taking it he quit. He didn't learn anything from that, so I don't know why anybody thinks he will learn from this. Wish him the best, but I hope he doesn't get a third chance at MSU, because he already made squandered his second chance here.

You don't know that for fact. Have you talked to coach? Have you talk to the reporter from the Seattle Times? Have you talked to the player? If you have, then please set me straight. Thanks.

Thank you! Bunch of jealous ****** who probably couldn't make their junior high cheerleading team wants the jocks to be perfect.

Perfect? No. I'd just ask they're not convicted felon drug dealers. I don't feel that's too much to ask.

It's felony possession, not dealing.


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As far as I'm concerned, that's splitting hairs that shouldn't even be split in the first place. He'll be a convicted felon of a drug related crime and should not be allowed back on the MSU football team. PERIOD. Besides, it's not like he's the second coming of Deion Sanders. He's just another dude. Why is this still even a discussion?