Hale and Gardenhire Gone...

Hi-Line Bobcat · Post by **Hi-Line Bobcat** » Fri Apr 14, 2017 8:03 am

Colter_Nuanez wrote:
Hi-Line Bobcat wrote:I hate to break up the hockey convention, but what is the actual status of Hale and Gardenhire? Carry on.
Both are out on bail and back on twitter...both have been removed from the Montana State roster until the legal proceedings play out.

Thanks Colter.

catsrback76 · Post by **catsrback76** » Fri Apr 14, 2017 11:52 am

Hi-Line Bobcat wrote:
Colter_Nuanez wrote:
Hi-Line Bobcat wrote:I hate to break up the hockey convention, but what is the actual status of Hale and Gardenhire? Carry on.
Both are out on bail and back on twitter...both have been removed from the Montana State roster until the legal proceedings play out.
Thanks Colter.

Based on his comments in the Bigsky breakdown, Colter sees this as very damaging to Coach Choate and is possibly a fire-able offence. Not sure I see it that way, but that is his take.

CelticCat · Post by **CelticCat** » Fri Apr 14, 2017 12:03 pm

catsrback76 wrote:
Hi-Line Bobcat wrote:
Colter_Nuanez wrote:
Hi-Line Bobcat wrote:I hate to break up the hockey convention, but what is the actual status of Hale and Gardenhire? Carry on.
Both are out on bail and back on twitter...both have been removed from the Montana State roster until the legal proceedings play out.
Thanks Colter.
Based on his comments in the Bigsky breakdown, Colter sees this as very damaging to Coach Choate and is possibly a fire-able offence. Not sure I see it that way, but that is his take.

I haven't listened, what about this is a fireable offense?

77matcat · Post by **77matcat** » Fri Apr 14, 2017 12:19 pm

Yes please, what makes these players' actions a fire the coach event. I'd agree if he provided the drug or had prior knowledge they were selling and took no action. I find either of these hard to believe.

So..... just what is it.

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wbtfg · Post by **wbtfg** » Fri Apr 14, 2017 12:26 pm

Colter basically said Choate should have seen it coming. Which is a decent point considering Choate was with these two at UW and it backfired in his face. Ties it to Kramer years.

IMO, Calling it fireball offense was a little over dramatic, but that's the world we live in.

It was interesting that GAs name never came up in the conversation. I would imagine he was the one who really went to bat for the kids. I imagine he was a mentor for them and shortly after he leaves they are in trouble.

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77matcat · Post by **77matcat** » Fri Apr 14, 2017 12:31 pm

Make second chances available but watch closely.

Sounds like what happened.

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Grizaddict · Post by **Grizaddict** » Fri Apr 14, 2017 1:08 pm

Colter's points were spot on. He said this could be looked on as a fireable offense but that he didn't think it would be. The points he made on Choate taking on this risk were on point though. He knew exactly who these kids were. He knew exactly why they got booted or quit Washington. He had to go to bat with the administration for these kids to get a second chance. Then these kids pissed in his face with their second chance. I agree 100% that looks very, very bad for Choate.

He also said once it is a felony, everything lies with the Dean of Students and Administation. That Choate and coaches are removed from it completely...the punishment, commenting on it, etc is not allowed by coaches. This is the point I made with the Griz student code of conduct and many other colleges that take the coaches out of the equation. So Choate wasn't some hero that instantly suspended these guys. The school admin did. Choate has egg on his face from this.

Cat_gld · Post by **Cat_gld** » Fri Apr 14, 2017 1:33 pm

Grizaddict wrote:Colter's points were spot on. He said this could be looked on as a fireable offense but that he didn't think it would be. The points he made on Choate taking on this risk were on point though. He knew exactly who these kids were. He knew exactly why they got booted or quit Washington. He had to go to bat with the administration for these kids to get a second chance. Then these kids pissed in his face with their second chance. I agree 100% that looks very, very bad for Choate.

He also said once it is a felony, everything lies with the Dean of Students and Administation. That Choate and coaches are removed from it completely...the punishment, commenting on it, etc is not allowed by coaches. This is the point I made with the Griz student code of conduct and many other colleges that take the coaches out of the equation. So Choate wasn't some hero that instantly suspended these guys. The school admin did. Choate has egg on his face from this.

I'm inclined to agree. However, I suspect and hope that his job isn't on the line here unless he makes some outlandish statement to the press that doesn't sit well with the administration or the public. Common sense dictates that this doesn't do a fledgling head coach gig a world of good. As you can see though, there's obviously a few here that either didn't get the memo or have a very short memory or attention span.

Hi-Line Bobcat · Post by **Hi-Line Bobcat** » Fri Apr 14, 2017 2:10 pm

Grizaddict wrote:Colter's points were spot on. He said this could be looked on as a fireable offense but that he didn't think it would be. The points he made on Choate taking on this risk were on point though. He knew exactly who these kids were. He knew exactly why they got booted or quit Washington. He had to go to bat with the administration for these kids to get a second chance. Then these kids pissed in his face with their second chance. I agree 100% that looks very, very bad for Choate.

He also said once it is a felony, everything lies with the Dean of Students and Administation. That Choate and coaches are removed from it completely...the punishment, commenting on it, etc is not allowed by coaches. This is the point I made with the Griz student code of conduct and many other colleges that take the coaches out of the equation. So Choate wasn't some hero that instantly suspended these guys. The school admin did. Choate has egg on his face from this.

Grizaddict=Rachel Maddow.........Right on, Straight to the point, & Unbiased.

Cat_gld · Post by **Cat_gld** » Fri Apr 14, 2017 2:28 pm

Hi-Line Bobcat wrote:
Grizaddict wrote:Colter's points were spot on. He said this could be looked on as a fireable offense but that he didn't think it would be. The points he made on Choate taking on this risk were on point though. He knew exactly who these kids were. He knew exactly why they got booted or quit Washington. He had to go to bat with the administration for these kids to get a second chance. Then these kids pissed in his face with their second chance. I agree 100% that looks very, very bad for Choate.

He also said once it is a felony, everything lies with the Dean of Students and Administation. That Choate and coaches are removed from it completely...the punishment, commenting on it, etc is not allowed by coaches. This is the point I made with the Griz student code of conduct and many other colleges that take the coaches out of the equation. So Choate wasn't some hero that instantly suspended these guys. The school admin did. Choate has egg on his face from this.
Grizaddict=Rachel Maddow.........Right on, Straight to the point, & Unbiased.

You'd do best to crawl back under your rock, Cowboy!

Hi-Line Bobcat · Post by **Hi-Line Bobcat** » Fri Apr 14, 2017 3:29 pm

Cat_gld wrote:
Hi-Line Bobcat wrote:
Grizaddict wrote:Colter's points were spot on. He said this could be looked on as a fireable offense but that he didn't think it would be. The points he made on Choate taking on this risk were on point though. He knew exactly who these kids were. He knew exactly why they got booted or quit Washington. He had to go to bat with the administration for these kids to get a second chance. Then these kids pissed in his face with their second chance. I agree 100% that looks very, very bad for Choate.

He also said once it is a felony, everything lies with the Dean of Students and Administation. That Choate and coaches are removed from it completely...the punishment, commenting on it, etc is not allowed by coaches. This is the point I made with the Griz student code of conduct and many other colleges that take the coaches out of the equation. So Choate wasn't some hero that instantly suspended these guys. The school admin did. Choate has egg on his face from this.
Grizaddict=Rachel Maddow.........Right on, Straight to the point, & Unbiased.
You'd do best to crawl back under your rock, Cowboy!

It wasn't the smartest thing in the world to bring these kids to MSU due to their past, however if you have paid attention to the college landscape over the last 10 years this is common place to bring troubled kids on. He did the right thing or as Grizaddict so pompously stated, the school kick them off which is all you can ask for. This hardly is as bad as some are making it, just look around college football crap like this happens all the time. If these kids wouldn't have got in trouble and if they would have became stars here people would have been saying how great of a coach Choate is for knowing he could turn these guys around. Its all a toss up when you get transfers like this, but to sit back and say Choate has "egg" on his face is extremely hypocritical, especially coming from some one like grizaddiction. If you want to run a really clean program and never take risks on kids, then you better get prepared for mediocrity.

desmond1957 · Post by **desmond1957** » Fri Apr 14, 2017 3:45 pm

Just for curiosity how many transfers do the griz currently have that have been "asked to leave" by their formerschools in BOTH FB and BB??

Cat_gld · Post by **Cat_gld** » Fri Apr 14, 2017 3:56 pm

Hi-Line Bobcat wrote:
Cat_gld wrote:
Hi-Line Bobcat wrote:
Grizaddict wrote:Colter's points were spot on. He said this could be looked on as a fireable offense but that he didn't think it would be. The points he made on Choate taking on this risk were on point though. He knew exactly who these kids were. He knew exactly why they got booted or quit Washington. He had to go to bat with the administration for these kids to get a second chance. Then these kids pissed in his face with their second chance. I agree 100% that looks very, very bad for Choate.

He also said once it is a felony, everything lies with the Dean of Students and Administation. That Choate and coaches are removed from it completely...the punishment, commenting on it, etc is not allowed by coaches. This is the point I made with the Griz student code of conduct and many other colleges that take the coaches out of the equation. So Choate wasn't some hero that instantly suspended these guys. The school admin did. Choate has egg on his face from this.
Grizaddict=Rachel Maddow.........Right on, Straight to the point, & Unbiased.
You'd do best to crawl back under your rock, Cowboy!
It wasn't the smartest thing in the world to bring these kids to MSU due to their past, however if you have paid attention to the college landscape over the last 10 years this is common place to bring troubled kids on. He did the right thing or as Grizaddict so pompously stated, the school kick them off which is all you can ask for. This hardly is as bad as some are making it, just look around college football crap like this happens all the time. If these kids wouldn't have got in trouble and if they would have became stars here people would have been saying how great of a coach Choate is for knowing he could turn these guys around. Its all a toss up when you get transfers like this, but to sit back and say Choate has "egg" on his face is extremely hypocritical, especially coming from some one like grizaddiction. If you want to run a really clean program and never take risks on kids, then you better get prepared for mediocrity.

"...... crap like this happens all the time."

So this makes everything OK? Hope you're right, but I'm not betting the farm on it.

91catAlum · Post by **91catAlum** » Fri Apr 14, 2017 3:59 pm

Grizaddict wrote:Colter's points were spot on. He said this could be looked on as a fireable offense but that he didn't think it would be. The points he made on Choate taking on this risk were on point though. He knew exactly who these kids were. He knew exactly why they got booted or quit Washington. He had to go to bat with the administration for these kids to get a second chance. Then these kids pissed in his face with their second chance. I agree 100% that looks very, very bad for Choate.

He also said once it is a felony, everything lies with the Dean of Students and Administation. That Choate and coaches are removed from it completely...the punishment, commenting on it, etc is not allowed by coaches. This is the point I made with the Griz student code of conduct and many other colleges that take the coaches out of the equation. So Choate wasn't some hero that instantly suspended these guys. The school admin did. Choate has egg on his face from this.

Easy there, chief. Yes it does reflect poorly on Choate, no question. But it's tough to fault a guy for giving these 2 talented kids a second chance, and showing some confidence in them to hopefully help them stay on the straight and narrow. Unfortunately, they both blew that second chance, assuming they are guilty, and now they'll likely never play football again anywhere, forget MSU.

If it continues to happen over and over,, then Choate has got a serious problem. But anybody who thinks this by itself is a "fire-able" offense is being overly harsh, or is a griz fan.

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BleedingBLue · Post by **BleedingBLue** » Fri Apr 14, 2017 4:26 pm

What's also ridiculous about some of the comments being made is the comparison to Kramer above. Not even close to Kramer. This is 2 guys who were given a 2nd chance, and most everybody on here was still on the "everyone deserves a 2nd chance" boat until the news broke. Kramer had the same crap happen on a regular basis. Gatewood was dealing coke, and was part of a Coke ring involving other athletes, he was not dealing xanax. Lebrum (granted he was no longer on the team at this point) killed a man. I don't even remember a lot of the other garbage but let's not make that comparison again.

A lot of people's lives are built on 2nd chances. And a lot were given to them at a young age. I guarantee there are posters on here who got 2nd chances and made the most of them. Maybe not the circumstances that these guys were in but you get the point. I'd take 2 more 2nd chance guys today if we could. The outcome with these 2 doesn't look great, but neither does shutting out every guy who might just need that 2nd chance.

autocat · Post by **autocat** » Fri Apr 14, 2017 4:49 pm

Someone give me the chemical breakdown of Xanax and Cocaine so I can understand which one a has the least impact. When it come to trafficking the stuff

Grizaddict · Post by **Grizaddict** » Fri Apr 14, 2017 8:35 pm

Cat_gld wrote:
Grizaddict wrote:Colter's points were spot on. He said this could be looked on as a fireable offense but that he didn't think it would be. The points he made on Choate taking on this risk were on point though. He knew exactly who these kids were. He knew exactly why they got booted or quit Washington. He had to go to bat with the administration for these kids to get a second chance. Then these kids pissed in his face with their second chance. I agree 100% that looks very, very bad for Choate.

He also said once it is a felony, everything lies with the Dean of Students and Administation. That Choate and coaches are removed from it completely...the punishment, commenting on it, etc is not allowed by coaches. This is the point I made with the Griz student code of conduct and many other colleges that take the coaches out of the equation. So Choate wasn't some hero that instantly suspended these guys. The school admin did. Choate has egg on his face from this.
I'm inclined to agree. However, I suspect and hope that his job isn't on the line here unless he makes some outlandish statement to the press that doesn't sit well with the administration or the public. Common sense dictates that this doesn't do a fledgling head coach gig a world of good. As you can see though, there's obviously a few here that either didn't get the memo or have a very short memory or attention span.

All good points. I don't think or believe Choate should be fired over this. I actually liked him giving a kid a second shot. It's crap that these kids made him look so foolish in doing it. I think it will make Choate think twice about second chances. I'm guessing the administration probably already told him "no more"

Grizaddict · Post by **Grizaddict** » Fri Apr 14, 2017 8:39 pm

91catAlum wrote:
Grizaddict wrote:Colter's points were spot on. He said this could be looked on as a fireable offense but that he didn't think it would be. The points he made on Choate taking on this risk were on point though. He knew exactly who these kids were. He knew exactly why they got booted or quit Washington. He had to go to bat with the administration for these kids to get a second chance. Then these kids pissed in his face with their second chance. I agree 100% that looks very, very bad for Choate.

He also said once it is a felony, everything lies with the Dean of Students and Administation. That Choate and coaches are removed from it completely...the punishment, commenting on it, etc is not allowed by coaches. This is the point I made with the Griz student code of conduct and many other colleges that take the coaches out of the equation. So Choate wasn't some hero that instantly suspended these guys. The school admin did. Choate has egg on his face from this.
Easy there, chief. Yes it does reflect poorly on Choate, no question. But it's tough to fault a guy for giving these 2 talented kids a second chance, and showing some confidence in them to hopefully help them stay on the straight and narrow. Unfortunately, they both blew that second chance, assuming they are guilty, and now they'll likely never play football again anywhere, forget MSU.

If it continues to happen over and over,, then Choate has got a serious problem. But anybody who thinks this by itself is a "fire-able" offense is being overly harsh, or is a griz fan.

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I don't think Choate should be fired. I also actually liked that he gave these kids another shot. Kids are idiots and make mistakes. So do we as adults. It comes down to who learns from these mistakes and becomes better. Unfortunately these two didn't and it does reflect directly on your coach who stuck his neck out for them. I'm guessing he will learn from this and not make this mistake again. And I'm not naive. It's a matter of time before a Griz player is in a newspaper and then a Cat and it will continue to go round and round.

77matcat · Post by **77matcat** » Fri Apr 14, 2017 9:46 pm

Termaine worked out.

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catdaddy · Post by **catdaddy** » Fri Apr 14, 2017 10:01 pm

BleedingBLue wrote:What's also ridiculous about some of the comments being made is the comparison to Kramer above. Not even close to Kramer. This is 2 guys who were given a 2nd chance, and most everybody on here was still on the "everyone deserves a 2nd chance" boat until the news broke. Kramer had the same crap happen on a regular basis. Gatewood was dealing coke, and was part of a Coke ring involving other athletes, he was not dealing xanax. Lebrum (granted he was no longer on the team at this point) killed a man. I don't even remember a lot of the other garbage but let's not make that comparison again.

A lot of people's lives are built on 2nd chances. And a lot were given to them at a young age. I guarantee there are posters on here who got 2nd chances and made the most of them. Maybe not the circumstances that these guys were in but you get the point. I'd take 2 more 2nd chance guys today if we could. The outcome with these 2 doesn't look great, but neither does shutting out every guy who might just need that 2nd chance.

A lot of people's lives might be built on second chances, but that's because they don't f up their second chance. How are people missing the point here? Choate isn't being chastised for providing a 2nd chance, he's being chastised because the 2nd chance provided blew up in his face. And this is quite a bit different than most 2nd chance athletes. He knew way more about these two than most coaches, because most coaches didn't coach at the school they got their transfers from. Makes it even worse. I don't think it's fireable, but it makes his rope shorter, he can't miss this badly again.