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TomCat88
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Re: Gazette post on Facebook

Post by TomCat88 » Tue Feb 07, 2017 7:03 am

BLACKnBLUEnGOLD wrote:
Cataholic wrote:
catsack wrote:
VimSince03 wrote:
catsack wrote:
Cataholic wrote:
GoCats18 wrote:Does anyone else get the feeling like the media is trying to turn our "Own The Sky" into "Griz Envy"? I mean, Stitt knows he screwed up by not bringing in home state kids last year. He is clearly making up for that this year. We both signed 10 Montana kids, and MSU still has more total MT kids on their roster. I mean, loads of MT talent? Come on. I am willing to bet that of the 10 kids signed by UM this week, less then 5 will ever see the field.
I asked this earlier, but does anybody know how many scholarships were awarded to the Montana Griz recruits? I think they signed 22 kids but only had like 18 scholarships. I have a suspicion that the majority of Montana kids that he so "values" only received partial scholarships while the majority of scholarship money went to out of staters. I think even Dick and Welnel only received partials. Is Deming the only one that received a full scholarship?
According to Choate the Cats only offered one of those kids ! So did the Griz waste a bunch of partials on all of those kids Choate didn't want??
I believe if the Cats lost out on the full-ride kids they would then offer the other kids on their board from Montana. Two years ago, I think the Griz got 5 full-ride commits from Colin Bingham, Josh Sandry, Dalton Daum, Jesse Sims, and Holden Ryan. So, like then, it wasn't like the Cats wasted partials on half of their 11 Montana commitments that year. This is a silly argument and not from you catsack. The Griz offered full-rides to those top 5 kids and got one. But I wouldn't let "how much scholarship money a kid received" define who he is as a future player, especially with Montana kids. 18 of the 19 kids listed in my Top 20 received scholarship aid from their school with the exception being Peyton Hanser for MSU. This class was talented and deep.
My point was they got more money than Choate offered, when IMO his point was the Griz didn't give them enough money!
I should have made my comment more clear. Bobs Titt claims that his Montana recruits are the foundation of their future success. I don't think his actions back his statement. If he values these Montana kids so much and expects them to be the key to success, then why didn't he provide them all full rides? Wouldn't you be investing money in your "keys" to success? Instead, I can only find that Deming received a full scholarship (I could be wrong but can't find anymore detail). I see Stitts statement as another insincere attempt to win over some Montana fans.
If Lamar Jackson expressed a desire to transfer to UM or MSU as a walk-on, would the coach be making a mistake by letting him? Stitt and Choate know that in-state tuition is a lot less than out-of-state tuition, so more Montana kids can afford to come to MSU on a partial, as opposed to out of state kids. Therefore, more Montana kids can justify coming to MSU or UM on a partial. Both coaches know this, which means they will both try to convince Montana kids to accept a partial. This sets the market rate for most in-state recruits in most yearss at the level of a partial scholarship. I doubt either coach really wants to change that, because their goal is to win, and getting the most talent possible out of a given number of scholarships tends to help a team win. If you can get a talented player without giving up a full scholarship, that offers a strategic benefit.
Don't some of the players qualify for Pell grants and other aid? Couldn't some players be getting full rides without using any football scholarship money? Also, how does out of state tuition here compare to in-state tuition in other states?


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Cataholic
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Re: Gazette post on Facebook

Post by Cataholic » Tue Feb 07, 2017 1:46 pm

TomCat88 wrote:
BLACKnBLUEnGOLD wrote:
Cataholic wrote:
catsack wrote:
VimSince03 wrote:
catsack wrote:
Cataholic wrote:
GoCats18 wrote:Does anyone else get the feeling like the media is trying to turn our "Own The Sky" into "Griz Envy"? I mean, Stitt knows he screwed up by not bringing in home state kids last year. He is clearly making up for that this year. We both signed 10 Montana kids, and MSU still has more total MT kids on their roster. I mean, loads of MT talent? Come on. I am willing to bet that of the 10 kids signed by UM this week, less then 5 will ever see the field.
I asked this earlier, but does anybody know how many scholarships were awarded to the Montana Griz recruits? I think they signed 22 kids but only had like 18 scholarships. I have a suspicion that the majority of Montana kids that he so "values" only received partial scholarships while the majority of scholarship money went to out of staters. I think even Dick and Welnel only received partials. Is Deming the only one that received a full scholarship?
According to Choate the Cats only offered one of those kids ! So did the Griz waste a bunch of partials on all of those kids Choate didn't want??
I believe if the Cats lost out on the full-ride kids they would then offer the other kids on their board from Montana. Two years ago, I think the Griz got 5 full-ride commits from Colin Bingham, Josh Sandry, Dalton Daum, Jesse Sims, and Holden Ryan. So, like then, it wasn't like the Cats wasted partials on half of their 11 Montana commitments that year. This is a silly argument and not from you catsack. The Griz offered full-rides to those top 5 kids and got one. But I wouldn't let "how much scholarship money a kid received" define who he is as a future player, especially with Montana kids. 18 of the 19 kids listed in my Top 20 received scholarship aid from their school with the exception being Peyton Hanser for MSU. This class was talented and deep.
My point was they got more money than Choate offered, when IMO his point was the Griz didn't give them enough money!
I should have made my comment more clear. Bobs Titt claims that his Montana recruits are the foundation of their future success. I don't think his actions back his statement. If he values these Montana kids so much and expects them to be the key to success, then why didn't he provide them all full rides? Wouldn't you be investing money in your "keys" to success? Instead, I can only find that Deming received a full scholarship (I could be wrong but can't find anymore detail). I see Stitts statement as another insincere attempt to win over some Montana fans.
If Lamar Jackson expressed a desire to transfer to UM or MSU as a walk-on, would the coach be making a mistake by letting him? Stitt and Choate know that in-state tuition is a lot less than out-of-state tuition, so more Montana kids can afford to come to MSU on a partial, as opposed to out of state kids. Therefore, more Montana kids can justify coming to MSU or UM on a partial. Both coaches know this, which means they will both try to convince Montana kids to accept a partial. This sets the market rate for most in-state recruits in most yearss at the level of a partial scholarship. I doubt either coach really wants to change that, because their goal is to win, and getting the most talent possible out of a given number of scholarships tends to help a team win. If you can get a talented player without giving up a full scholarship, that offers a strategic benefit.
Don't some of the players qualify for Pell grants and other aid? Couldn't some players be getting full rides without using any football scholarship money? Also, how does out of state tuition here compare to in-state tuition in other states?
Reasonable points, but does that mean Choate did a poor job getting Montana kids to sign because he paid too much via scholarships??? No way! Choate values the Montana kids more and is willing to award them for that. Stitt said last year that Montana kids should want to play at WA Griz regardless of what he offers in scholarship. His actions this year make the same point: one full scholarship to a Montana kid while the rest are partials. My issue is simple: Stitt says the Montana kids are the key to success, but his actions (at least via scholarships and recruiting) in no way support this. It is all a smokescreen to garner public support.



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Re: Gazette post on Facebook

Post by catsack » Tue Feb 07, 2017 2:40 pm

Cataholic wrote:
TomCat88 wrote:
BLACKnBLUEnGOLD wrote:
Cataholic wrote:
catsack wrote:
VimSince03 wrote:
catsack wrote:
Cataholic wrote:
GoCats18 wrote:Does anyone else get the feeling like the media is trying to turn our "Own The Sky" into "Griz Envy"? I mean, Stitt knows he screwed up by not bringing in home state kids last year. He is clearly making up for that this year. We both signed 10 Montana kids, and MSU still has more total MT kids on their roster. I mean, loads of MT talent? Come on. I am willing to bet that of the 10 kids signed by UM this week, less then 5 will ever see the field.
I asked this earlier, but does anybody know how many scholarships were awarded to the Montana Griz recruits? I think they signed 22 kids but only had like 18 scholarships. I have a suspicion that the majority of Montana kids that he so "values" only received partial scholarships while the majority of scholarship money went to out of staters. I think even Dick and Welnel only received partials. Is Deming the only one that received a full scholarship?
According to Choate the Cats only offered one of those kids ! So did the Griz waste a bunch of partials on all of those kids Choate didn't want??
I believe if the Cats lost out on the full-ride kids they would then offer the other kids on their board from Montana. Two years ago, I think the Griz got 5 full-ride commits from Colin Bingham, Josh Sandry, Dalton Daum, Jesse Sims, and Holden Ryan. So, like then, it wasn't like the Cats wasted partials on half of their 11 Montana commitments that year. This is a silly argument and not from you catsack. The Griz offered full-rides to those top 5 kids and got one. But I wouldn't let "how much scholarship money a kid received" define who he is as a future player, especially with Montana kids. 18 of the 19 kids listed in my Top 20 received scholarship aid from their school with the exception being Peyton Hanser for MSU. This class was talented and deep.
My point was they got more money than Choate offered, when IMO his point was the Griz didn't give them enough money!
I should have made my comment more clear. Bobs Titt claims that his Montana recruits are the foundation of their future success. I don't think his actions back his statement. If he values these Montana kids so much and expects them to be the key to success, then why didn't he provide them all full rides? Wouldn't you be investing money in your "keys" to success? Instead, I can only find that Deming received a full scholarship (I could be wrong but can't find anymore detail). I see Stitts statement as another insincere attempt to win over some Montana fans.
If Lamar Jackson expressed a desire to transfer to UM or MSU as a walk-on, would the coach be making a mistake by letting him? Stitt and Choate know that in-state tuition is a lot less than out-of-state tuition, so more Montana kids can afford to come to MSU on a partial, as opposed to out of state kids. Therefore, more Montana kids can justify coming to MSU or UM on a partial. Both coaches know this, which means they will both try to convince Montana kids to accept a partial. This sets the market rate for most in-state recruits in most yearss at the level of a partial scholarship. I doubt either coach really wants to change that, because their goal is to win, and getting the most talent possible out of a given number of scholarships tends to help a team win. If you can get a talented player without giving up a full scholarship, that offers a strategic benefit.
Don't some of the players qualify for Pell grants and other aid? Couldn't some players be getting full rides without using any football scholarship money? Also, how does out of state tuition here compare to in-state tuition in other states?
Reasonable points, but does that mean Choate did a poor job getting Montana kids to sign because he paid too much via scholarships??? No way! Choate values the Montana kids more and is willing to award them for that. Stitt said last year that Montana kids should want to play at WA Griz regardless of what he offers in scholarship. His actions this year make the same point: one full scholarship to a Montana kid while the rest are partials. My issue is simple: Stitt says the Montana kids are the key to success, but his actions (at least via scholarships and recruiting) in no way support this. It is all a smokescreen to garner public support.
Isn't it safe to assume that Stitt offered most of the kids who signed with MSU ? Did Stitt offer more money to Montana kids?



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Re: Gazette post on Facebook

Post by Hawks86 » Tue Feb 07, 2017 3:02 pm

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Re: Gazette post on Facebook

Post by VimSince03 » Tue Feb 07, 2017 3:19 pm

Okay guys this should not be very hard to understand. Every recruiting season, there are kids who are "full-ride scholarship" kids, "partial scholarship" kids, and "preferred walk-on" kids. This past year, according to Skyline Sports, the Bobcats and Grizzlies offered (at one point during the year) full-ride offers to 5 Montana athletes. The Bobcats got 4 and Montana got 1. So since Montana felt there were no more kids worthy of full-rides in Montana, they still got commitments from 9 in-state kids on partial offers. The Bobcats also offered some form of a partial to a few of these kids. BOTH schools offered partials to different kids with some kids not receiving an offer from one of the schools. If 4 of the top 5 kids went to Missoula on full-rides, the Bobcats likely still would've only offered partials to the other in-state kids with maybe 1 or 2 receiving a full-ride depending on the recruitment of that kid by other schools. This is why I brought up 2015 when Montana got those 5 full-ride kids out of Montana. In 2015, just because the Bobcats lost out on 5 of the top kids doesn't mean they went and offered full-rides to Mitch Brott, Brayden Konkol, or Josh Hill. Actually, the Bobcats offered partials to 6 of their 11 Montana kids that recruiting class. As a Big Sky school, you need to use that partial scholarship allocation to your advantage to try and stretch the dollar across more kids. If you feel you can get a kid on a partial, you use that to your advantage.


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Re: Gazette post on Facebook

Post by Grizaddict » Tue Feb 07, 2017 3:30 pm

VimSince03 wrote:Okay guys this should not be very hard to understand. Every recruiting season, there are kids who are "full-ride scholarship" kids, "partial scholarship" kids, and "preferred walk-on" kids. This past year, according to Skyline Sports, the Bobcats and Grizzlies offered (at one point during the year) full-ride offers to 5 Montana athletes. The Bobcats got 4 and Montana got 1. So since Montana felt there were no more kids worthy of full-rides in Montana, they still got commitments from 9 in-state kids on partial offers. The Bobcats also offered some form of a partial to a few of these kids. BOTH schools offered partials to different kids with some kids not receiving an offer from one of the schools. If 4 of the top 5 kids went to Missoula on full-rides, the Bobcats likely still would've only offered partials to the other in-state kids with maybe 1 or 2 receiving a full-ride depending on the recruitment of that kid by other schools. This is why I brought up 2015 when Montana got those 5 full-ride kids out of Montana. In 2015, just because the Bobcats lost out on 5 of the top kids doesn't mean they went and offered full-rides to Mitch Brott, Brayden Konkol, or Josh Hill. Actually, the Bobcats offered partials to 6 of their 11 Montana kids that recruiting class. As a Big Sky school, you need to use that partial scholarship allocation to your advantage to try and stretch the dollar across more kids. If you feel you can get a kid on a partial, you use that to your advantage.
What is more frightening is that you had to take the valuable time to explain that....that so-called fans are not already fully aware of these things.



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Re: Gazette post on Facebook

Post by thefrank1 » Tue Feb 07, 2017 4:47 pm

Grizaddict wrote:
VimSince03 wrote:Okay guys this should not be very hard to understand. Every recruiting season, there are kids who are "full-ride scholarship" kids, "partial scholarship" kids, and "preferred walk-on" kids. This past year, according to Skyline Sports, the Bobcats and Grizzlies offered (at one point during the year) full-ride offers to 5 Montana athletes. The Bobcats got 4 and Montana got 1. So since Montana felt there were no more kids worthy of full-rides in Montana, they still got commitments from 9 in-state kids on partial offers. The Bobcats also offered some form of a partial to a few of these kids. BOTH schools offered partials to different kids with some kids not receiving an offer from one of the schools. If 4 of the top 5 kids went to Missoula on full-rides, the Bobcats likely still would've only offered partials to the other in-state kids with maybe 1 or 2 receiving a full-ride depending on the recruitment of that kid by other schools. This is why I brought up 2015 when Montana got those 5 full-ride kids out of Montana. In 2015, just because the Bobcats lost out on 5 of the top kids doesn't mean they went and offered full-rides to Mitch Brott, Brayden Konkol, or Josh Hill. Actually, the Bobcats offered partials to 6 of their 11 Montana kids that recruiting class. As a Big Sky school, you need to use that partial scholarship allocation to your advantage to try and stretch the dollar across more kids. If you feel you can get a kid on a partial, you use that to your advantage.
What is more frightening is that you had to take the valuable time to explain that....that so-called fans are not already fully aware of these things.
+100


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Re: Gazette post on Facebook

Post by couloir » Tue Feb 07, 2017 5:15 pm

i for one am glad vim and several other posters take the time to point out some of the finer points of football details like scholarships...i just don't have time to be knowledgable on those kinds of topics...it surprises me that some who post believe fans who read the board should be well informed...anyway, vim, and others who detail for the rest of us, thanks...



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Re: Gazette post on Facebook

Post by couloir » Tue Feb 07, 2017 5:18 pm

oops...missed the sarcasm...thanks again vim...



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Re: Gazette post on Facebook

Post by onceacat » Tue Feb 07, 2017 10:10 pm

TomCat88 wrote:
BLACKnBLUEnGOLD wrote:
Cataholic wrote:
catsack wrote:
VimSince03 wrote:
catsack wrote:
Cataholic wrote:
GoCats18 wrote:Does anyone else get the feeling like the media is trying to turn our "Own The Sky" into "Griz Envy"? I mean, Stitt knows he screwed up by not bringing in home state kids last year. He is clearly making up for that this year. We both signed 10 Montana kids, and MSU still has more total MT kids on their roster. I mean, loads of MT talent? Come on. I am willing to bet that of the 10 kids signed by UM this week, less then 5 will ever see the field.
I asked this earlier, but does anybody know how many scholarships were awarded to the Montana Griz recruits? I think they signed 22 kids but only had like 18 scholarships. I have a suspicion that the majority of Montana kids that he so "values" only received partial scholarships while the majority of scholarship money went to out of staters. I think even Dick and Welnel only received partials. Is Deming the only one that received a full scholarship?
According to Choate the Cats only offered one of those kids ! So did the Griz waste a bunch of partials on all of those kids Choate didn't want??
I believe if the Cats lost out on the full-ride kids they would then offer the other kids on their board from Montana. Two years ago, I think the Griz got 5 full-ride commits from Colin Bingham, Josh Sandry, Dalton Daum, Jesse Sims, and Holden Ryan. So, like then, it wasn't like the Cats wasted partials on half of their 11 Montana commitments that year. This is a silly argument and not from you catsack. The Griz offered full-rides to those top 5 kids and got one. But I wouldn't let "how much scholarship money a kid received" define who he is as a future player, especially with Montana kids. 18 of the 19 kids listed in my Top 20 received scholarship aid from their school with the exception being Peyton Hanser for MSU. This class was talented and deep.
My point was they got more money than Choate offered, when IMO his point was the Griz didn't give them enough money!
I should have made my comment more clear. Bobs Titt claims that his Montana recruits are the foundation of their future success. I don't think his actions back his statement. If he values these Montana kids so much and expects them to be the key to success, then why didn't he provide them all full rides? Wouldn't you be investing money in your "keys" to success? Instead, I can only find that Deming received a full scholarship (I could be wrong but can't find anymore detail). I see Stitts statement as another insincere attempt to win over some Montana fans.
If Lamar Jackson expressed a desire to transfer to UM or MSU as a walk-on, would the coach be making a mistake by letting him? Stitt and Choate know that in-state tuition is a lot less than out-of-state tuition, so more Montana kids can afford to come to MSU on a partial, as opposed to out of state kids. Therefore, more Montana kids can justify coming to MSU or UM on a partial. Both coaches know this, which means they will both try to convince Montana kids to accept a partial. This sets the market rate for most in-state recruits in most yearss at the level of a partial scholarship. I doubt either coach really wants to change that, because their goal is to win, and getting the most talent possible out of a given number of scholarships tends to help a team win. If you can get a talented player without giving up a full scholarship, that offers a strategic benefit.
Don't some of the players qualify for Pell grants and other aid? Couldn't some players be getting full rides without using any football scholarship money? Also, how does out of state tuition here compare to in-state tuition in other states?
I think you can get Pell grants and other solely need based aid & play. But a school is limited in the number of scholarships it can award to anyone on the football team. Track, academics, skiing, rodeo-it doesn't matter. If you are on ANY scholarship and play football, it counts as a football scholarship.

Thats how we got Elvis Apkla here. He was a walk-on caliber football player at Oregon, but was on a track scholarship, so, for all practical intents and purposes, he couldn't play football.



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Re: Gazette post on Facebook

Post by Cataholic » Tue Feb 07, 2017 11:27 pm

VimSince03 wrote:Okay guys this should not be very hard to understand. Every recruiting season, there are kids who are "full-ride scholarship" kids, "partial scholarship" kids, and "preferred walk-on" kids. This past year, according to Skyline Sports, the Bobcats and Grizzlies offered (at one point during the year) full-ride offers to 5 Montana athletes. The Bobcats got 4 and Montana got 1. So since Montana felt there were no more kids worthy of full-rides in Montana, they still got commitments from 9 in-state kids on partial offers. The Bobcats also offered some form of a partial to a few of these kids. BOTH schools offered partials to different kids with some kids not receiving an offer from one of the schools. If 4 of the top 5 kids went to Missoula on full-rides, the Bobcats likely still would've only offered partials to the other in-state kids with maybe 1 or 2 receiving a full-ride depending on the recruitment of that kid by other schools. This is why I brought up 2015 when Montana got those 5 full-ride kids out of Montana. In 2015, just because the Bobcats lost out on 5 of the top kids doesn't mean they went and offered full-rides to Mitch Brott, Brayden Konkol, or Josh Hill. Actually, the Bobcats offered partials to 6 of their 11 Montana kids that recruiting class. As a Big Sky school, you need to use that partial scholarship allocation to your advantage to try and stretch the dollar across more kids. If you feel you can get a kid on a partial, you use that to your advantage.
We agree. There are only so many kids in Montana that should get a full D-1 ride in Montana. This year, it looks like only 5 Montana kids received full rides with 4 going to MSU.

What I find misleading is Stitts comments on his Montana in state recruits. Based on your thoughts above, Stitt did not get the best atheletes in Montana. If his Montana recruits are the next tier down (partials), dont you think he is pandering to the audience when saying they are the "foundation" to future success?



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Re: Gazette post on Facebook

Post by Cataholic » Tue Feb 07, 2017 11:36 pm

Grizaddict wrote:
VimSince03 wrote:Okay guys this should not be very hard to understand. Every recruiting season, there are kids who are "full-ride scholarship" kids, "partial scholarship" kids, and "preferred walk-on" kids. This past year, according to Skyline Sports, the Bobcats and Grizzlies offered (at one point during the year) full-ride offers to 5 Montana athletes. The Bobcats got 4 and Montana got 1. So since Montana felt there were no more kids worthy of full-rides in Montana, they still got commitments from 9 in-state kids on partial offers. The Bobcats also offered some form of a partial to a few of these kids. BOTH schools offered partials to different kids with some kids not receiving an offer from one of the schools. If 4 of the top 5 kids went to Missoula on full-rides, the Bobcats likely still would've only offered partials to the other in-state kids with maybe 1 or 2 receiving a full-ride depending on the recruitment of that kid by other schools. This is why I brought up 2015 when Montana got those 5 full-ride kids out of Montana. In 2015, just because the Bobcats lost out on 5 of the top kids doesn't mean they went and offered full-rides to Mitch Brott, Brayden Konkol, or Josh Hill. Actually, the Bobcats offered partials to 6 of their 11 Montana kids that recruiting class. As a Big Sky school, you need to use that partial scholarship allocation to your advantage to try and stretch the dollar across more kids. If you feel you can get a kid on a partial, you use that to your advantage.
What is more frightening is that you had to take the valuable time to explain that....that so-called fans are not already fully aware of these things.
That's funny coming from you. Can you give us a dissertation on the how the "code" should be applied in DUI cases? You are the resident expert. You are so much more intelligent than the rest of us...



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Re: Gazette post on Facebook

Post by lutecat » Wed Feb 08, 2017 5:14 am

Cataholic. You just realized that a coach was pandering to his audience? Good job. Now when you realize that ALL coaches do this in some way we'll throw you a party.

Move on man.

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Re: Gazette post on Facebook

Post by iaafan » Wed Feb 08, 2017 8:02 am

[quote="VimSince03"]Okay guys this should not be very hard to understand. Every recruiting season, there are kids who are "full-ride scholarship" kids, "partial scholarship" kids, and "preferred walk-on" kids. This past year, according to Skyline Sports, the Bobcats and Grizzlies offered (at one point during the year) full-ride offers to 5 Montana athletes. The Bobcats got 4 and Montana got 1. So since Montana felt there were no more kids worthy of full-rides in Montana, they still got commitments from 9 in-state kids on partial offers. The Bobcats also offered some form of a partial to a few of these kids. BOTH schools offered partials to different kids with some kids not receiving an offer from one of the schools. If 4 of the top 5 kids went to Missoula on full-rides, the Bobcats likely still would've only offered partials to the other in-state kids with maybe 1 or 2 receiving a full-ride depending on the recruitment of that kid by other schools. This is why I brought up 2015 when Montana got those 5 full-ride kids out of Montana. In 2015, just because the Bobcats lost out on 5 of the top kids doesn't mean they went and offered full-rides to Mitch Brott, Brayden Konkol, or Josh Hill. Actually, the Bobcats offered partials to 6 of their 11 Montana kids that recruiting class. As a Big Sky school, you need to use that partial scholarship allocation to your advantage to try and stretch the dollar across more kids. If you feel you can get a kid on a partial, you use that to your advantage.[/quote]


Good post. It's also worth noting that the 63 scholarships FCS schools can only be split up among 85 athletes and that many, probably most, FCS schools don't use their full allotment. When UM was put on probation with a 4-scholarship reduction they tried to smooth things over by stating that they rarely used all 63 of their scholarships then made public the numbers from previous years and they were roughly 2-4 short of the 63 each year.



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Re: Gazette post on Facebook

Post by BleedingBLue » Wed Feb 08, 2017 12:15 pm

onceacat wrote:
TomCat88 wrote:
BLACKnBLUEnGOLD wrote:
Cataholic wrote:
catsack wrote:
VimSince03 wrote:
catsack wrote:
Cataholic wrote:
GoCats18 wrote:Does anyone else get the feeling like the media is trying to turn our "Own The Sky" into "Griz Envy"? I mean, Stitt knows he screwed up by not bringing in home state kids last year. He is clearly making up for that this year. We both signed 10 Montana kids, and MSU still has more total MT kids on their roster. I mean, loads of MT talent? Come on. I am willing to bet that of the 10 kids signed by UM this week, less then 5 will ever see the field.
I asked this earlier, but does anybody know how many scholarships were awarded to the Montana Griz recruits? I think they signed 22 kids but only had like 18 scholarships. I have a suspicion that the majority of Montana kids that he so "values" only received partial scholarships while the majority of scholarship money went to out of staters. I think even Dick and Welnel only received partials. Is Deming the only one that received a full scholarship?
According to Choate the Cats only offered one of those kids ! So did the Griz waste a bunch of partials on all of those kids Choate didn't want??
I believe if the Cats lost out on the full-ride kids they would then offer the other kids on their board from Montana. Two years ago, I think the Griz got 5 full-ride commits from Colin Bingham, Josh Sandry, Dalton Daum, Jesse Sims, and Holden Ryan. So, like then, it wasn't like the Cats wasted partials on half of their 11 Montana commitments that year. This is a silly argument and not from you catsack. The Griz offered full-rides to those top 5 kids and got one. But I wouldn't let "how much scholarship money a kid received" define who he is as a future player, especially with Montana kids. 18 of the 19 kids listed in my Top 20 received scholarship aid from their school with the exception being Peyton Hanser for MSU. This class was talented and deep.
My point was they got more money than Choate offered, when IMO his point was the Griz didn't give them enough money!
I should have made my comment more clear. Bobs Titt claims that his Montana recruits are the foundation of their future success. I don't think his actions back his statement. If he values these Montana kids so much and expects them to be the key to success, then why didn't he provide them all full rides? Wouldn't you be investing money in your "keys" to success? Instead, I can only find that Deming received a full scholarship (I could be wrong but can't find anymore detail). I see Stitts statement as another insincere attempt to win over some Montana fans.
If Lamar Jackson expressed a desire to transfer to UM or MSU as a walk-on, would the coach be making a mistake by letting him? Stitt and Choate know that in-state tuition is a lot less than out-of-state tuition, so more Montana kids can afford to come to MSU on a partial, as opposed to out of state kids. Therefore, more Montana kids can justify coming to MSU or UM on a partial. Both coaches know this, which means they will both try to convince Montana kids to accept a partial. This sets the market rate for most in-state recruits in most yearss at the level of a partial scholarship. I doubt either coach really wants to change that, because their goal is to win, and getting the most talent possible out of a given number of scholarships tends to help a team win. If you can get a talented player without giving up a full scholarship, that offers a strategic benefit.
Don't some of the players qualify for Pell grants and other aid? Couldn't some players be getting full rides without using any football scholarship money? Also, how does out of state tuition here compare to in-state tuition in other states?
I think you can get Pell grants and other solely need based aid & play. But a school is limited in the number of scholarships it can award to anyone on the football team. Track, academics, skiing, rodeo-it doesn't matter. If you are on ANY scholarship and play football, it counts as a football scholarship.

Thats how we got Elvis Apkla here. He was a walk-on caliber football player at Oregon, but was on a track scholarship, so, for all practical intents and purposes, he couldn't play football.
If Choate wanted to he could sign 50 student athletes who are getting academic scholarships, sign 35 guys to full rides and still have 28 scholarships remaining. Academic money doesn't count towards athletic scholarships. I'm fairly certain other sports scholarships don't count against each other either. I played baseball and we had several guys who had partials for basketball and partials for baseball to get them to full ride in order to save scholarship money for both teams and have more to offer guys coming for just 1 of those sports. It's common practice to do that at small schools, especially D II and JCs.



91catAlum
Golden Bobcat
Posts: 9698
Joined: Sun Nov 21, 2010 4:41 pm
Location: Clancy, MT

Re: Gazette post on Facebook

Post by 91catAlum » Wed Feb 08, 2017 1:19 pm

BleedingBLue wrote:
onceacat wrote:
TomCat88 wrote:
BLACKnBLUEnGOLD wrote:
Cataholic wrote:
catsack wrote:
VimSince03 wrote:
catsack wrote:
Cataholic wrote:
GoCats18 wrote:Does anyone else get the feeling like the media is trying to turn our "Own The Sky" into "Griz Envy"? I mean, Stitt knows he screwed up by not bringing in home state kids last year. He is clearly making up for that this year. We both signed 10 Montana kids, and MSU still has more total MT kids on their roster. I mean, loads of MT talent? Come on. I am willing to bet that of the 10 kids signed by UM this week, less then 5 will ever see the field.
I asked this earlier, but does anybody know how many scholarships were awarded to the Montana Griz recruits? I think they signed 22 kids but only had like 18 scholarships. I have a suspicion that the majority of Montana kids that he so "values" only received partial scholarships while the majority of scholarship money went to out of staters. I think even Dick and Welnel only received partials. Is Deming the only one that received a full scholarship?
According to Choate the Cats only offered one of those kids ! So did the Griz waste a bunch of partials on all of those kids Choate didn't want??
I believe if the Cats lost out on the full-ride kids they would then offer the other kids on their board from Montana. Two years ago, I think the Griz got 5 full-ride commits from Colin Bingham, Josh Sandry, Dalton Daum, Jesse Sims, and Holden Ryan. So, like then, it wasn't like the Cats wasted partials on half of their 11 Montana commitments that year. This is a silly argument and not from you catsack. The Griz offered full-rides to those top 5 kids and got one. But I wouldn't let "how much scholarship money a kid received" define who he is as a future player, especially with Montana kids. 18 of the 19 kids listed in my Top 20 received scholarship aid from their school with the exception being Peyton Hanser for MSU. This class was talented and deep.
My point was they got more money than Choate offered, when IMO his point was the Griz didn't give them enough money!
I should have made my comment more clear. Bobs Titt claims that his Montana recruits are the foundation of their future success. I don't think his actions back his statement. If he values these Montana kids so much and expects them to be the key to success, then why didn't he provide them all full rides? Wouldn't you be investing money in your "keys" to success? Instead, I can only find that Deming received a full scholarship (I could be wrong but can't find anymore detail). I see Stitts statement as another insincere attempt to win over some Montana fans.
If Lamar Jackson expressed a desire to transfer to UM or MSU as a walk-on, would the coach be making a mistake by letting him? Stitt and Choate know that in-state tuition is a lot less than out-of-state tuition, so more Montana kids can afford to come to MSU on a partial, as opposed to out of state kids. Therefore, more Montana kids can justify coming to MSU or UM on a partial. Both coaches know this, which means they will both try to convince Montana kids to accept a partial. This sets the market rate for most in-state recruits in most yearss at the level of a partial scholarship. I doubt either coach really wants to change that, because their goal is to win, and getting the most talent possible out of a given number of scholarships tends to help a team win. If you can get a talented player without giving up a full scholarship, that offers a strategic benefit.
Don't some of the players qualify for Pell grants and other aid? Couldn't some players be getting full rides without using any football scholarship money? Also, how does out of state tuition here compare to in-state tuition in other states?
I think you can get Pell grants and other solely need based aid & play. But a school is limited in the number of scholarships it can award to anyone on the football team. Track, academics, skiing, rodeo-it doesn't matter. If you are on ANY scholarship and play football, it counts as a football scholarship.

Thats how we got Elvis Apkla here. He was a walk-on caliber football player at Oregon, but was on a track scholarship, so, for all practical intents and purposes, he couldn't play football.
If Choate wanted to he could sign 50 student athletes who are getting academic scholarships, sign 35 guys to full rides and still have 28 scholarships remaining. Academic money doesn't count towards athletic scholarships. I'm fairly certain other sports scholarships don't count against each other either. I played baseball and we had several guys who had partials for basketball and partials for baseball to get them to full ride in order to save scholarship money for both teams and have more to offer guys coming for just 1 of those sports. It's common practice to do that at small schools, especially D II and JCs.
I don't think that's correct. Are you sure? The NCAA is very strict about a student athlete receiving a scholarship, and that scholarship counting against the limit for the football team.
Otherwise, Alabama could certainly find 20 guys on academic scholarship, give the other 85 out to other players, and have all 105 players on scholarship.


Image

Grizaddict
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Joined: Fri Feb 06, 2015 11:09 pm

Re: Gazette post on Facebook

Post by Grizaddict » Wed Feb 08, 2017 3:08 pm

A good article in the scholarship discussion:

http://diycollegerankings.com/can-colle ... hips/6267/



iaafan
Golden Bobcat
Posts: 7177
Joined: Mon May 03, 2004 12:44 pm

Re: Gazette post on Facebook

Post by iaafan » Wed Feb 08, 2017 3:37 pm

[quote="BleedingBLue"][quote="onceacat"][quote="TomCat88"][quote="BLACKnBLUEnGOLD"][quote="Cataholic"][quote="catsack"][quote="VimSince03"][quote="catsack"][quote="Cataholic"][quote="GoCats18"]Does anyone else get the feeling like the media is trying to turn our "Own The Sky" into "Griz Envy"? I mean, Stitt knows he screwed up by not bringing in home state kids last year. He is clearly making up for that this year. We both signed 10 Montana kids, and MSU still has more total MT kids on their roster. I mean, loads of MT talent? Come on. I am willing to bet that of the 10 kids signed by UM this week, less then 5 will ever see the field.[/quote]
I asked this earlier, but does anybody know how many scholarships were awarded to the Montana Griz recruits? I think they signed 22 kids but only had like 18 scholarships. I have a suspicion that the majority of Montana kids that he so "values" only received partial scholarships while the majority of scholarship money went to out of staters. I think even Dick and Welnel only received partials. Is Deming the only one that received a full scholarship?[/quote]
According to Choate the Cats only offered one of those kids ! [b]So did the Griz waste a bunch of partials on all of those kids Choate didn't want??[/b][/quote]

I believe if the Cats lost out on the full-ride kids they would then offer the other kids on their board from Montana. Two years ago, I think the Griz got 5 full-ride commits from Colin Bingham, Josh Sandry, Dalton Daum, Jesse Sims, and Holden Ryan. So, like then, it wasn't like the Cats wasted partials on half of their 11 Montana commitments that year. This is a silly argument and not from you catsack. The Griz offered full-rides to those top 5 kids and got one. But I wouldn't let "how much scholarship money a kid received" define who he is as a future player, especially with Montana kids. 18 of the 19 kids listed in my Top 20 received scholarship aid from their school with the exception being Peyton Hanser for MSU. This class was talented and deep.[/quote]
My point was they got more money than Choate offered, when IMO his point was the Griz didn't give them enough money![/quote]
I should have made my comment more clear. Bobs Titt claims that his Montana recruits are the foundation of their future success. I don't think his actions back his statement. If he values these Montana kids so much and expects them to be the key to success, then why didn't he provide them all full rides? Wouldn't you be investing money in your "keys" to success? Instead, I can only find that Deming received a full scholarship (I could be wrong but can't find anymore detail). I see Stitts statement as another insincere attempt to win over some Montana fans.[/quote]
If Lamar Jackson expressed a desire to transfer to UM or MSU as a walk-on, would the coach be making a mistake by letting him? Stitt and Choate know that in-state tuition is a lot less than out-of-state tuition, so more Montana kids can afford to come to MSU on a partial, as opposed to out of state kids. Therefore, more Montana kids can justify coming to MSU or UM on a partial. Both coaches know this, which means they will both try to convince Montana kids to accept a partial. This sets the market rate for most in-state recruits in most yearss at the level of a partial scholarship. I doubt either coach really wants to change that, because their goal is to win, and getting the most talent possible out of a given number of scholarships tends to help a team win. If you can get a talented player without giving up a full scholarship, that offers a strategic benefit.[/quote]
Don't some of the players qualify for Pell grants and other aid? Couldn't some players be getting full rides without using any football scholarship money? Also, how does out of state tuition here compare to in-state tuition in other states?[/quote]

I think you can get Pell grants and other solely need based aid & play. But a school is limited in the number of scholarships it can award to anyone on the football team. Track, academics, skiing, rodeo-it doesn't matter. If you are on ANY scholarship and play football, it counts as a football scholarship.

Thats how we got Elvis Apkla here. He was a walk-on caliber football player at Oregon, but was on a track scholarship, so, for all practical intents and purposes, he couldn't play football.[/quote]

If Choate wanted to he could sign 50 student athletes who are getting academic scholarships, sign 35 guys to full rides and still have 28 scholarships remaining. Academic money doesn't count towards athletic scholarships. I'm fairly certain other sports scholarships don't count against each other either. I played baseball and we had several guys who had partials for basketball and partials for baseball to get them to full ride in order to save scholarship money for both teams and have more to offer guys coming for just 1 of those sports. It's common practice to do that at small schools, especially D II and JCs.[/quote]

This is covered by the 85 scholarship limit. If you want to give players academic aid instead of athletic aid, it still counts against the 85 limit. MSU can give up to 85 players 63 scholarships (athletic, academic) split up however it wants. At least I think so. =P~



blueandgoldblitz
1st Team All-BobcatNation
Posts: 1619
Joined: Wed Nov 14, 2012 4:02 pm

Re: Gazette post on Facebook

Post by blueandgoldblitz » Wed Feb 15, 2017 10:30 am

Grizaddict wrote:A good article in the scholarship discussion:

http://diycollegerankings.com/can-colle ... hips/6267/
I think this sums it up very well.
There is something in the NCAA, it’s called Bylaw 15.02.4.3. This rule states that any financial aid except that which is specifically exempted is going to count as athletic aid and make the student a “counter” in terms of scholarships.

Federal and state financial aid based on need is exempted. Academic scholarships for freshman may be exempted if the students meets one of the following conditions depending on the division:

Division 1
◾Top 10% of the high school graduating class
◾Achieve a cumulative high school GPA of at least 3.50
◾Score 1200 or higher on the SAT or ACT sum score of at least 105



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