THE DEFENSE: 'Cats have played more snaps than almost anyone
Moderators: rtb, kmax, SonomaCat
-
- Golden Bobcat
- Posts: 9710
- Joined: Wed Jun 15, 2011 4:55 pm
- Location: Big Sky Country
- Contact:
THE DEFENSE: 'Cats have played more snaps than almost anyone
Editor’s Note: Each Friday, Bobcat Beat publishes a profile piece on a Montana State senior football player and gives it away for free. We’ve profiled 12 of the 18 seniors thus far and the three injured players are reserved for the bye week. With five weeks left in the season, we decided to do something different this Friday. This is the second of a two-part series looking at Montana State’s offense and defense.Read the Full Article on BobcatNation
Last edited by Colter_Nuanez on Sat Oct 18, 2014 9:25 am, edited 1 time in total.
Reason: Edit
Reason: Edit
TWITTER:@Skylinesportsmt
FACEBOOK
https://www.facebook.com/skylinesportsmt1
BIG SKY BREAKDOWN ON ITUNES
https://itunes.apple.com/us/podcast/big ... 1131856462
SUBSCRIBE TO SKYLINE
https://skylinesportsmt.com/subscriptions/
https://www.facebook.com/skylinesportsmt1
BIG SKY BREAKDOWN ON ITUNES
https://itunes.apple.com/us/podcast/big ... 1131856462
SUBSCRIBE TO SKYLINE
https://skylinesportsmt.com/subscriptions/
- LongTimeCatFan
- Golden Bobcat
- Posts: 8625
- Joined: Thu Jul 01, 2004 5:50 pm
- Location: Kalispell
- catgrad05
- Member # Retired
- Posts: 2393
- Joined: Thu Aug 04, 2011 9:51 am
- Location: North Central Montna
Re: THE DEFENSE: 'Cats have played more snaps than almost an
1) Colter we need to get you a week in California more often! Those were two of the best stuff you have done so far. I love the little scenarios and then the tail to go with it
2) I understand the Captains being on the field and they don't want to come out but one would hope you could take them out at different times and when they are getting a breather they can see better whats going on and help the guys that will be going in. A good leader shows by example (on the field) a great leader can do the same even if they are not on the field.
3) By subbing players out for fresh bodies (I really hope we see more of this here on out). Not only will it help keep us fresh in the current game, but help keep the guys more healthy for the hopefully long season and gets more players game experience so that in years to come they will be even better. I also see the benefits paying off in recruiting, when we get more players into games guys will want to come here because they know they will get playing time even if there is a stud Junior or underclassmen in front of them. this has to be a win win win scenario imo
2) I understand the Captains being on the field and they don't want to come out but one would hope you could take them out at different times and when they are getting a breather they can see better whats going on and help the guys that will be going in. A good leader shows by example (on the field) a great leader can do the same even if they are not on the field.
3) By subbing players out for fresh bodies (I really hope we see more of this here on out). Not only will it help keep us fresh in the current game, but help keep the guys more healthy for the hopefully long season and gets more players game experience so that in years to come they will be even better. I also see the benefits paying off in recruiting, when we get more players into games guys will want to come here because they know they will get playing time even if there is a stud Junior or underclassmen in front of them. this has to be a win win win scenario imo
-
- BobcatNation Letterman
- Posts: 289
- Joined: Mon Jul 30, 2012 2:57 pm
Re: THE DEFENSE: 'Cats have played more snaps than almost an
LongTimeCatFan wrote:That tells the story doesn't it
Hey buddy thanks for the referral to the app for Cat Chat 790 out of billings. Downloaded and have not missed a thing. Great station.
Good article Colter.
- LongTimeCatFan
- Golden Bobcat
- Posts: 8625
- Joined: Thu Jul 01, 2004 5:50 pm
- Location: Kalispell
Re: THE DEFENSE: 'Cats have played more snaps than almost an
So can we put to rest the "it's not fatigue" argument now?
- LongTimeCatFan
- Golden Bobcat
- Posts: 8625
- Joined: Thu Jul 01, 2004 5:50 pm
- Location: Kalispell
Re: THE DEFENSE: 'Cats have played more snaps than almost an
No probBobcat Steve wrote:LongTimeCatFan wrote:That tells the story doesn't it
Hey buddy thanks for the referral to the app for Cat Chat 790 out of billings. Downloaded and have not missed a thing. Great station.
Good article Colter.
-
- BobcatNation Letterman
- Posts: 216
- Joined: Tue Nov 06, 2012 3:38 pm
Re: THE DEFENSE: 'Cats have played more snaps than almost an
First, I must say that I truly appreciate Colter's articles for the inside look at things! However, in regard to our defense, I am still very concerned. I think that it can help with fatigue by rotating in depth. There can be many benefits to this as mentioned earlier in this thread. My main concern is that there is absolutely no discussion from the coaches in reference to changing the scheme. We don't have the front four that we have had in the past, and it shows. in the past we could out athlete most Big Sky teams and run base D (this vanilla d still killed us, though, when facing equally athletic teams in the playoffs). We obviously cannot be so dependent on our pass rush this year, so why don't we look at scheme?
Our offense talks so much about getting our athletes on the field at the same time. Where is this philosophy for the defense? Wouldn't a change in scheme help us get more playmakers on the field at the same time, and not just use them to rest other playmakers? I am no defensive guru, but obviously something isn't a good fit with our current scheme and personnel. I still think that Jamie Marshall needs to be let go at the end of the year for his inability to coach anything other than base D. Isn't part of the responsibility of a coordinator to be creative and come up with a scheme wherein the personnel that you have can be effective? Like I said, I have no coaching experience, so this is simply an observer perspective.
Colter, you obviously understand the X's and O's. Does our inflexibility in reference to scheme concern you at all? Do you think we have the personnel to continue to depend on our pass rush? Do you think we can be a good defense this year without a change in scheme?
Our offense talks so much about getting our athletes on the field at the same time. Where is this philosophy for the defense? Wouldn't a change in scheme help us get more playmakers on the field at the same time, and not just use them to rest other playmakers? I am no defensive guru, but obviously something isn't a good fit with our current scheme and personnel. I still think that Jamie Marshall needs to be let go at the end of the year for his inability to coach anything other than base D. Isn't part of the responsibility of a coordinator to be creative and come up with a scheme wherein the personnel that you have can be effective? Like I said, I have no coaching experience, so this is simply an observer perspective.
Colter, you obviously understand the X's and O's. Does our inflexibility in reference to scheme concern you at all? Do you think we have the personnel to continue to depend on our pass rush? Do you think we can be a good defense this year without a change in scheme?
- catgrad05
- Member # Retired
- Posts: 2393
- Joined: Thu Aug 04, 2011 9:51 am
- Location: North Central Montna
Re: THE DEFENSE: 'Cats have played more snaps than almost an
To take saintcats question a step further and possibly easier to answer without getting colter in trouble, other than a couple years ago the Griz have a solid defense most years except for when their secondary was incredibly young. The Griz did not fix their defensive scheme that year and it cost them the playoffs. Here's the question is it more common for a team to stick with a scheme even if it's not working or more common for a team to change mid season?
And a follow up since we all know you (colter) use to follow the Griz a lot and I personally do not do they and most other teams change schemes from one year to another or do most teams run a similar scheme from year to year like the cats?
And a follow up since we all know you (colter) use to follow the Griz a lot and I personally do not do they and most other teams change schemes from one year to another or do most teams run a similar scheme from year to year like the cats?
-
- Member # Retired
- Posts: 2549
- Joined: Wed Aug 28, 2013 8:12 pm
Re: THE DEFENSE: 'Cats have played more snaps than almost an
Believe most of our defensive players probably came from high schools that ran multiple schemes. We did over 40 years ago.
Not sure why a college level program can't.
The question I have is do you think this inflexibility is coming from the DC, HC or both.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Not sure why a college level program can't.
The question I have is do you think this inflexibility is coming from the DC, HC or both.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
- allcat
- Golden Bobcat
- Posts: 8691
- Joined: Mon Nov 02, 2009 5:13 pm
- Location: 90 miles from Nirvana (Bobcat Stadium)
Re: THE DEFENSE: 'Cats have played more snaps than almost an
Gee, we have one of the best football programs in the country, I don't know why we can't do it differently. Does that sum up your feelings?77matcat wrote:Believe most of our defensive players probably came from high schools that ran multiple schemes. We did over 40 years ago.
Not sure why a college level program can't.
The question I have is do you think this inflexibility is coming from the DC, HC or both.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Geezer. Part Bionic,. Part Iconic
-
- Golden Bobcat
- Posts: 5869
- Joined: Thu May 27, 2010 10:35 am
- Location: RNC Headquarters
Re: THE DEFENSE: 'Cats have played more snaps than almost an
What year did the grizz not fix their scheme on D and it cost them the playoffs?catgrad05 wrote:To take saintcats question a step further and possibly easier to answer without getting colter in trouble, other than a couple years ago the Griz have a solid defense most years except for when their secondary was incredibly young. The Griz did not fix their defensive scheme that year and it cost them the playoffs. Here's the question is it more common for a team to stick with a scheme even if it's not working or more common for a team to change mid season?
And a follow up since we all know you (colter) use to follow the Griz a lot and I personally do not do they and most other teams change schemes from one year to another or do most teams run a similar scheme from year to year like the cats?
-
- Golden Bobcat
- Posts: 5869
- Joined: Thu May 27, 2010 10:35 am
- Location: RNC Headquarters
Re: THE DEFENSE: 'Cats have played more snaps than almost an
I think the story is a good one, but Colter wiffs on the part about ASU, EWU, UND, and UCA...the fault doesn't lie entirely on the D there. The offense and special teams contributed heavily to those comebacks and he should've gave mention to that, because it makes it look like he's dramatizing the situation. The games the D really suffered were SAC and UCD, but there's some logical explanation for that too.
-
- BobcatNation Letterman
- Posts: 216
- Joined: Tue Nov 06, 2012 3:38 pm
Re: THE DEFENSE: 'Cats have played more snaps than almost an
Catbracket, it seems a bit like you are defending our defense. Do you think it is decent, or do you think it needs some serious improvement?
-
- Golden Bobcat
- Posts: 5869
- Joined: Thu May 27, 2010 10:35 am
- Location: RNC Headquarters
Re: THE DEFENSE: 'Cats have played more snaps than almost an
I am defending our defense. It does need improvement. Why do you ask?saintcat40 wrote:Catbracket, it seems a bit like you are defending our defense. Do you think it is decent, or do you think it needs some serious improvement?
- RockyBearCat
- BobcatNation Team Captain
- Posts: 627
- Joined: Mon Oct 13, 2014 9:19 pm
Re: THE DEFENSE: 'Cats have played more snaps than almost an
Regarding multiple schemes. The essence of college is different than high school. In high school, especially all but about 5 or 6 huge schools in Montana, the coaches are FORCED to have multiple schemes and change them year to year. It is based on personnel. One year you have plenty of small, fast guys, next year you get a 280 lb freshman that runs a 4.7. You play differently on both sides of the ball. In college, you set the scheme you like based on your faith in your coaches and you recruit to have depth at the type of players you want. Cats did that this year but between injuries, suspensions, a well-known recruit failure, etc. We don't quite have the personnel that fits the mold perfectly.77matcat wrote:Believe most of our defensive players probably came from high schools that ran multiple schemes. We did over 40 years ago.
Not sure why a college level program can't.
The question I have is do you think this inflexibility is coming from the DC, HC or both.
To look at this from a simple Basketball perspective. A high school coach starts his 5 best athletes. One year might be 5 over 6 feet and they pound the ball inside. Next year 4 of them graduate and you have some great young guards and they put up 50 3's a game. In college, the coach decides he wants to be the team shooting 50 3's a game, his recruiting is for lights out guards, not 6.10 centers.
- HelenaCat95
- Golden Bobcat
- Posts: 6943
- Joined: Mon Mar 29, 2004 1:13 pm
- Location: Helena, Montana
Re: THE DEFENSE: 'Cats have played more snaps than almost an
Excellent Post RBC.RockyBearCat wrote:Regarding multiple schemes. The essence of college is different than high school. In high school, especially all but about 5 or 6 huge schools in Montana, the coaches are FORCED to have multiple schemes and change them year to year. It is based on personnel. One year you have plenty of small, fast guys, next year you get a 280 lb freshman that runs a 4.7. You play differently on both sides of the ball. In college, you set the scheme you like based on your faith in your coaches and you recruit to have depth at the type of players you want. Cats did that this year but between injuries, suspensions, a well-known recruit failure, etc. We don't quite have the personnel that fits the mold perfectly.77matcat wrote:Believe most of our defensive players probably came from high schools that ran multiple schemes. We did over 40 years ago.
Not sure why a college level program can't.
The question I have is do you think this inflexibility is coming from the DC, HC or both.
To look at this from a simple Basketball perspective. A high school coach starts his 5 best athletes. One year might be 5 over 6 feet and they pound the ball inside. Next year 4 of them graduate and you have some great young guards and they put up 50 3's a game. In college, the coach decides he wants to be the team shooting 50 3's a game, his recruiting is for lights out guards, not 6.10 centers.
It is a HUGE difference to switch up schemes.....especially with only a few practices to implement. The difference between playing a 1-technique or 3-technique 1 gap D-Line scheme, to a 0-tech (nose) that plays a 2 gap, is world's apart. As far as the Dline goes, it is unreasonable to ask them to play a different scheme at this point in the year.....and as far as the Dline goes, there really are only 2 schemes - 30 front and 40 front - everything else is a variation off of that. And the D front determines where the LBs play, and their style of play too.
As far as coverages and blitzing, that's a little different story. We should be running different coverages....and we are. We can make a huge improvement in our blitzing techniques...and as of Weber, we were - hitting gaps differently, bringing guys in different spots.
Should we play different than we have been? Yes. Should we completely switch schemes to a completely different defense like some have suggested? That is unreasonable to ask. IMO, we should pressure more and subsequently run more Man Free in the secondary....as of Weber, we are. Just my two cents.
- LTown Cat
- Golden Bobcat
- Posts: 5579
- Joined: Mon Mar 20, 2006 4:26 pm
- Location: Lewistown, MT
Re: THE DEFENSE: 'Cats have played more snaps than almost an
Bingo! Great post.RockyBearCat wrote:Regarding multiple schemes. The essence of college is different than high school. In high school, especially all but about 5 or 6 huge schools in Montana, the coaches are FORCED to have multiple schemes and change them year to year. It is based on personnel. One year you have plenty of small, fast guys, next year you get a 280 lb freshman that runs a 4.7. You play differently on both sides of the ball. In college, you set the scheme you like based on your faith in your coaches and you recruit to have depth at the type of players you want. Cats did that this year but between injuries, suspensions, a well-known recruit failure, etc. We don't quite have the personnel that fits the mold perfectly.77matcat wrote:Believe most of our defensive players probably came from high schools that ran multiple schemes. We did over 40 years ago.
Not sure why a college level program can't.
The question I have is do you think this inflexibility is coming from the DC, HC or both.
To look at this from a simple Basketball perspective. A high school coach starts his 5 best athletes. One year might be 5 over 6 feet and they pound the ball inside. Next year 4 of them graduate and you have some great young guards and they put up 50 3's a game. In college, the coach decides he wants to be the team shooting 50 3's a game, his recruiting is for lights out guards, not 6.10 centers.
-
- BobcatNation Letterman
- Posts: 216
- Joined: Tue Nov 06, 2012 3:38 pm
Re: THE DEFENSE: 'Cats have played more snaps than almost an
Catbracket, I am just curious as to your viewpoint. Not many on Bobcat Nation have spoken up for the defense. I have never played football or coached, just watched a lot over the years. (I was a track and cross-country guy - but have always enjoyed watching football). My eyes tell me something is wrong with the defense, and the stats back it up. I just am curious what you see that makes you think it is better than it looks, or what makes you think it is fixable. You gave a bit of info earlier, and I just would like to hear more.
-
- Golden Bobcat
- Posts: 5869
- Joined: Thu May 27, 2010 10:35 am
- Location: RNC Headquarters
Re: THE DEFENSE: 'Cats have played more snaps than almost an
Colter's story on the defense had a section in it about the defense letting teams make comebacks. The reality is those comebacks had something to do with our offense and special teams failing. Stats like total yards and points can often be deceiving. You have to look at the game situation to determine if those numbers truly represent how the game was played. I hope teams we play watch the SAC and UCD tapes, because those games aren't good indicators of our defense. I'm sure they know that.saintcat40 wrote:Catbracket, I am just curious as to your viewpoint. Not many on Bobcat Nation have spoken up for the defense. I have never played football or coached, just watched a lot over the years. (I was a track and cross-country guy - but have always enjoyed watching football). My eyes tell me something is wrong with the defense, and the stats back it up. I just am curious what you see that makes you think it is better than it looks, or what makes you think it is fixable. You gave a bit of info earlier, and I just would like to hear more.
-
- Member # Retired
- Posts: 2549
- Joined: Wed Aug 28, 2013 8:12 pm
THE DEFENSE: 'Cats have played more snaps than almost anyone
Thanks HC95 And RBC. Believe you are saying good high school coaches run schemes that fit their talent vs. college coaches can recruit talent to fit their scheme.
I would suggest that most of the time in FCS coaches don't always get and or keep through out the year the talent they would like to run the scheme they like. It's then necessary to make at least some tweaks to get the most out of what you have talent wise.
Would like to think this is true but based on the half time adjustments not sure.
To continue to do the same thing and expect different results is, well............
Hope the D has turned the corner and has a great rest of the year. Next week will probably be a fair indication.
Go Cats!!!!!
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
I would suggest that most of the time in FCS coaches don't always get and or keep through out the year the talent they would like to run the scheme they like. It's then necessary to make at least some tweaks to get the most out of what you have talent wise.
Would like to think this is true but based on the half time adjustments not sure.
To continue to do the same thing and expect different results is, well............
Hope the D has turned the corner and has a great rest of the year. Next week will probably be a fair indication.
Go Cats!!!!!
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk