Difference between MSU and EWU

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Difference between MSU and EWU

Post by TomCat88 » Sun Oct 15, 2017 3:50 am

There was a lot of talk (much of it by me) about the clash of styles between MSU and EWU going into this game. The biggest clash turned out to be that one knows how to win and the other does not. That's each team's identity.

MSU has lost four games and if you look back you'll notice that in three games they had multiple opportunities to win, but didn't seize those chances. Both wins have been decisive.

EWU is just the opposite. They have three wins that, if they were a team that didn't know how to win, they probably blow it. Their two losses have been decisive.

MSU has everything it needs, in terms of skills, right now to be a winner. It just doesn't know how to win against teams that have similar skills. When the time comes to make a play teams like MSU don't, while teams like EWU do.


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Re: Difference between MSU and EWU

Post by Common Cat » Sun Oct 15, 2017 8:28 am

Gage Gubrud is the main difference. He might be the best Big Sky quarterback I've ever seen.


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Re: Difference between MSU and EWU

Post by clawman » Sun Oct 15, 2017 8:46 am

Common Cat wrote:Gage Gubrud is the main difference. He might be the best Big Sky quarterback I've ever seen.
And you didn't see the real Gage Gubrud. The EWU coaches really kept the reins tight with a game plan to highlight the running game.
Through 6 games,
Passing attempts - 46.33
rushing attempts - 28.5

Vs MSU
Passing attempts - 31
Rushing attempts - 49

When you have a guy on your team that will in all likelihood be a finalist for the Walter Peyton award why have him hand off 2/3 of the plays?? Really takes away for our offensive potential.
I'm glad we got a win, I give the Cats more credit than I had for physicality, good game!


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Re: Difference between MSU and EWU

Post by gtapp » Sun Oct 15, 2017 8:52 am

TomCat88 wrote:There was a lot of talk (much of it by me) about the clash of styles between MSU and EWU going into this game. The biggest clash turned out to be that one knows how to win and the other does not. That's each team's identity.

MSU has lost four games and if you look back you'll notice that in three games they had multiple opportunities to win, but didn't seize those chances. Both wins have been decisive.

EWU is just the opposite. They have three wins that, if they were a team that didn't know how to win, they probably blow it. Their two losses have been decisive.

MSU has everything it needs, in terms of skills, right now to be a winner. It just doesn't know how to win against teams that have similar skills. When the time comes to make a play teams like MSU don't, while teams like EWU do.

NO, they don't. MSU has had some tremendous players at every position over the last ten years. But this team does not have those types of players at RB, WR, CB or DE. Are they on the roster? Maybe, but they have not shown up yet. We have solid, well coached players at those positions but no difference makers. We will see if some of the freshmen and RS freshmen become those types of players.


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Re: Difference between MSU and EWU

Post by 91catAlum » Sun Oct 15, 2017 8:55 am

clawman wrote:
Common Cat wrote:Gage Gubrud is the main difference. He might be the best Big Sky quarterback I've ever seen.
And you didn't see the real Gage Gubrud. The EWU coaches really kept the reins tight with a game plan to highlight the running game.
Through 6 games,
Passing attempts - 46.33
rushing attempts - 28.5

Vs MSU
Passing attempts - 31
Rushing attempts - 49

When you have a guy on your team that will in all likelihood be a finalist for the Walter Peyton award why have him hand off 2/3 of the plays?? Really takes away for our offensive potential.
I'm glad we got a win, I give the Cats more credit than I had for physicality, good game!
Our defensive game plan dictated that EWU run the ball more and take the shorter throws.

Congrats on the win.


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Re: Difference between MSU and EWU

Post by TomCat88 » Sun Oct 15, 2017 10:31 am

gtapp wrote:
TomCat88 wrote:There was a lot of talk (much of it by me) about the clash of styles between MSU and EWU going into this game. The biggest clash turned out to be that one knows how to win and the other does not. That's each team's identity.

MSU has lost four games and if you look back you'll notice that in three games they had multiple opportunities to win, but didn't seize those chances. Both wins have been decisive.

EWU is just the opposite. They have three wins that, if they were a team that didn't know how to win, they probably blow it. Their two losses have been decisive.

MSU has everything it needs, in terms of skills, right now to be a winner. It just doesn't know how to win against teams that have similar skills. When the time comes to make a play teams like MSU don't, while teams like EWU do.

NO, they don't. MSU has had some tremendous players at every position over the last ten years. But this team does not have those types of players at RB, WR, CB or DE. Are they on the roster? Maybe, but they have not shown up yet. We have solid, well coached players at those positions but no difference makers. We will see if some of the freshmen and RS freshmen become those types of players.
Give some examples of key plays where the ability of the past player would've made a failed key play of this team work.


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Re: Difference between MSU and EWU

Post by Anacomando » Sun Oct 15, 2017 12:43 pm

TomCat88 wrote:There was a lot of talk (much of it by me) about the clash of styles between MSU and EWU going into this game. The biggest clash turned out to be that one knows how to win and the other does not. That's each team's identity.

MSU has lost four games and if you look back you'll notice that in three games they had multiple opportunities to win, but didn't seize those chances. Both wins have been decisive.

EWU is just the opposite. They have three wins that, if they were a team that didn't know how to win, they probably blow it. Their two losses have been decisive.

MSU has everything it needs, in terms of skills, right now to be a winner. It just doesn't know how to win against teams that have similar skills. When the time comes to make a play teams like MSU don't, while teams like EWU do.
TomCat88: this is a very accurate post. Cats lost by 12 and essentially turned over about 3 times inside the EWU 25. Those three turnovers were by a freshmen RB and a soph. QB. Part of it is just inexperience and youth and the other part is mental toughness! They left anywhere from 9-21 points in the board there! The defense played as well as anyone versus EWU, but again some personal fouls hurt them due to the same issues! What I see is a team similar to 2001; not quite there yet but making some strides to get there! The team can rise up or they can let this loss damage the season. We will know a lot more about character next week in Greeley!



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Re: Difference between MSU and EWU

Post by Cledus » Sun Oct 15, 2017 12:58 pm

There are some things that you can't control, like when Murray slipped and we lost a down. Or maybe a pass gets tipped at the line and winds up being intercepted. Or a b.s. non-call by the refs. Those things just happen.

But one thing individuals alway have 100% control over are their mental toughness.


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Re: Difference between MSU and EWU

Post by BelgradeBobcat » Sun Oct 15, 2017 7:34 pm

Their offense looked like they were running downhill on us all day with a head of steam. Their backs and receivers catch everything. The quick score on Murray's long run didn't phase them in the least, they go and get it back right away. If we wouldn't have fumbled on that last drive and instead had taken the lead, do any of you really think we would have stopped them from scoring again? No way.

They play with a chip on their shoulder. They're mean and nasty. Some of us are accusing them of being dirty. But if the refs are going to let defensive backs mug wide receivers why didn't our defensive backs do the same thing to them-instead of politely trailing behind the receiver and letting them catch it and then tackling them? Instead of dishing right back we go whining-that's the difference. EWU had at least two pass interference penalties. Did we have any? Maybe we should get a few. Maybe we need to make those receivers on the other side live in a little bit of fear. With the possible exception of Bignell and Lasane we look soft. EWU is very much the opposite of that.



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Re: Difference between MSU and EWU

Post by 95bcfb » Mon Oct 16, 2017 12:39 pm

TomCat88 wrote:
gtapp wrote:
TomCat88 wrote:There was a lot of talk (much of it by me) about the clash of styles between MSU and EWU going into this game. The biggest clash turned out to be that one knows how to win and the other does not. That's each team's identity.

MSU has lost four games and if you look back you'll notice that in three games they had multiple opportunities to win, but didn't seize those chances. Both wins have been decisive.

EWU is just the opposite. They have three wins that, if they were a team that didn't know how to win, they probably blow it. Their two losses have been decisive.

MSU has everything it needs, in terms of skills, right now to be a winner. It just doesn't know how to win against teams that have similar skills. When the time comes to make a play teams like MSU don't, while teams like EWU do.

NO, they don't. MSU has had some tremendous players at every position over the last ten years. But this team does not have those types of players at RB, WR, CB or DE. Are they on the roster? Maybe, but they have not shown up yet. We have solid, well coached players at those positions but no difference makers. We will see if some of the freshmen and RS freshmen become those types of players.
Give some examples of key plays where the ability of the past player would've made a failed key play of this team work.
I think that there is a combination of things going on. I only got to watch a small portion of the game but listened to the rest. One example of a play that was not made because of a lack of top level play is the 20 something yard scramble by their QB. Grant missed a tackle for a loss and allowed him to keep running. I am not bashing Grant because I think that he is a good player but he is not a great player. If he had the speed of Daily or Fletcher he likely makes that tackle and the cats get the ball back. Great teams have great players that rise up to the occasion and make plays at critical times and inspire toughness. I think that we are good on defense and just held a great team to well below their average but we are not great yet (see NDSU for a great defense). There may be a mental toughness aspect but there is also a skill level as well. Offensively we were pounding them into submission and had we gone in for a score would have likely continued to wear them down - but we turned the ball over instead. MeGee may have turned the ball over but I doubt it. Offensively we are not balanced enough to overcome mistakes and that is largely due - in my opinion - to a yet developing QB. I don't think that Murray is bad but he is not consistent enough at passing to take a game over with his arm yet and we will never be great until he or someone else can do that. We could talk about all the other positions as well but those are the two that come to mind for me.

On a side note if you had told me that we would have turned the ball over 4 times - 3 inside the 25 - and still be within 2 scores I would have said no way. This team does know how to fight - we just need to learn how to finish now.



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Re: Difference between MSU and EWU

Post by CelticCat » Mon Oct 16, 2017 1:06 pm

BelgradeBobcat wrote:Their offense looked like they were running downhill on us all day with a head of steam. Their backs and receivers catch everything. The quick score on Murray's long run didn't phase them in the least, they go and get it back right away. If we wouldn't have fumbled on that last drive and instead had taken the lead, do any of you really think we would have stopped them from scoring again? No way.

They play with a chip on their shoulder. They're mean and nasty. Some of us are accusing them of being dirty. But if the refs are going to let defensive backs mug wide receivers why didn't our defensive backs do the same thing to them-instead of politely trailing behind the receiver and letting them catch it and then tackling them? Instead of dishing right back we go whining-that's the difference. EWU had at least two pass interference penalties. Did we have any? Maybe we should get a few. Maybe we need to make those receivers on the other side live in a little bit of fear. With the possible exception of Bignell and Lasane we look soft. EWU is very much the opposite of that.
We may not be "mean" like you say, but really this team is FAR from soft, especially compared to the last few Ash teams. We may not be taking anyone's head off but this team doesn't get pushed around, and we play very physical especially along the lines.

Funny how an EWU fan says we were tougher physically than he was expecting, and you're calling us soft.

I do agree about the PI observation, that's a good point. We don't get PI penalties - is that because they are coached that way, is it because WRs just run right by our guys before they can eve get their hands on them at all, or is it because they aren't playing aggressive or physical enough? Sometimes I'd rather have the DB mug the WR if he knows it will result in a TD if he doesn't do something drastic. Like in basketball, if you're going to foul make sure they don't make their shot.


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Re: Difference between MSU and EWU

Post by SACCAT » Mon Oct 16, 2017 2:59 pm

BelgradeBobcat wrote:Their offense looked like they were running downhill on us all day with a head of steam. Their backs and receivers catch everything. The quick score on Murray's long run didn't phase them in the least, they go and get it back right away. If we wouldn't have fumbled on that last drive and instead had taken the lead, do any of you really think we would have stopped them from scoring again? No way.

They play with a chip on their shoulder. They're mean and nasty. Some of us are accusing them of being dirty. But if the refs are going to let defensive backs mug wide receivers why didn't our defensive backs do the same thing to them-instead of politely trailing behind the receiver and letting them catch it and then tackling them? Instead of dishing right back we go whining-that's the difference. EWU had at least two pass interference penalties. Did we have any? Maybe we should get a few. Maybe we need to make those receivers on the other side live in a little bit of fear. With the possible exception of Bignell and Lasane we look soft. EWU is very much the opposite of that.
I mentioned to my wife right after we got the fumble on the kickoff "We need a 6 minute 20 yard drive right now"....It was 3rd and about 30 for EWU on the next drive, and they converted....That was the game, and has been the last two years...When we need a stop (and I mean really need one, not a fluke fumble) we just can't get it...When we need a drive (and I mean really need one, not a fluke WR left open with 9 seconds left in the half) we just can't get it. Sure this team is young, but the attitude of "We go this no matter what" that was there in the Lulay and Mcghee days is gone right now...Until that comes back, expect more almost wins against good teams.



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Re: Difference between MSU and EWU

Post by John K » Mon Oct 16, 2017 4:49 pm

SACCAT wrote:
BelgradeBobcat wrote:Their offense looked like they were running downhill on us all day with a head of steam. Their backs and receivers catch everything. The quick score on Murray's long run didn't phase them in the least, they go and get it back right away. If we wouldn't have fumbled on that last drive and instead had taken the lead, do any of you really think we would have stopped them from scoring again? No way.

They play with a chip on their shoulder. They're mean and nasty. Some of us are accusing them of being dirty. But if the refs are going to let defensive backs mug wide receivers why didn't our defensive backs do the same thing to them-instead of politely trailing behind the receiver and letting them catch it and then tackling them? Instead of dishing right back we go whining-that's the difference. EWU had at least two pass interference penalties. Did we have any? Maybe we should get a few. Maybe we need to make those receivers on the other side live in a little bit of fear. With the possible exception of Bignell and Lasane we look soft. EWU is very much the opposite of that.
I mentioned to my wife right after we got the fumble on the kickoff "We need a 6 minute 20 yard drive right now"....It was 3rd and about 30 for EWU on the next drive, and they converted....That was the game, and has been the last two years...When we need a stop (and I mean really need one, not a fluke fumble) we just can't get it...When we need a drive (and I mean really need one, not a fluke WR left open with 9 seconds left in the half) we just can't get it. Sure this team is young, but the attitude of "We go this no matter what" that was there in the Lulay and Mcghee days is gone right now...Until that comes back, expect more almost wins against good teams.
I don't mean to come down too hard on Murray, because without his running ability, we would have had virtually no offense the last season and a half. And he actually threw the ball fairly well for the most part in the 2nd half. But he is just so inconsistent. And he's been the starter for a full season now, since he took over midway through last season. I'm not sure how much longer we can continue to blame his inconsistent passing and sometimes poor decision making on youth and inexperience. At some point, a player either gets it or he doesn't. Lulay and McGhee got it right from day one. Now I realize that QB's like those two don't come along every day, and you can't expect everyone to mature into the job almost immediately the way they did. I also realize that both of them would struggle with accuracy from time to time, and McGhee especially would sometimes go through periods where he was turnover prone. Neither of them were perfect QB's, but we weren't still blaming their occasional poor play on youth and inexperience, after they had a full year as the starter under their belt. Plus with them it was occasional....you can't say it's just occasional with Murray. It's just so frustrating because when he makes a play like that 54 yard TD run against EWU, it makes you forget all about his 1 for 9 passing in the 1st half. But the fact remains that we will never be a legitimate BSC title/playoff contender, as long as our passing offense struggles so badly so often. In 2 of our last 3 wins, we've completed only 2 passes. That's just not a recipe for consistent, long term success.
Last edited by John K on Mon Oct 16, 2017 5:50 pm, edited 1 time in total.



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Re: Difference between MSU and EWU

Post by TomCat88 » Mon Oct 16, 2017 5:04 pm

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Re: Difference between MSU and EWU

Post by technoCat » Mon Oct 16, 2017 5:06 pm

John K wrote:
SACCAT wrote:
BelgradeBobcat wrote:Their offense looked like they were running downhill on us all day with a head of steam. Their backs and receivers catch everything. The quick score on Murray's long run didn't phase them in the least, they go and get it back right away. If we wouldn't have fumbled on that last drive and instead had taken the lead, do any of you really think we would have stopped them from scoring again? No way.

They play with a chip on their shoulder. They're mean and nasty. Some of us are accusing them of being dirty. But if the refs are going to let defensive backs mug wide receivers why didn't our defensive backs do the same thing to them-instead of politely trailing behind the receiver and letting them catch it and then tackling them? Instead of dishing right back we go whining-that's the difference. EWU had at least two pass interference penalties. Did we have any? Maybe we should get a few. Maybe we need to make those receivers on the other side live in a little bit of fear. With the possible exception of Bignell and Lasane we look soft. EWU is very much the opposite of that.
I mentioned to my wife right after we got the fumble on the kickoff "We need a 6 minute 20 yard drive right now"....It was 3rd and about 30 for EWU on the next drive, and they converted....That was the game, and has been the last two years...When we need a stop (and I mean really need one, not a fluke fumble) we just can't get it...When we need a drive (and I mean really need one, not a fluke WR left open with 9 seconds left in the half) we just can't get it. Sure this team is young, but the attitude of "We go this no matter what" that was there in the Lulay and Mcghee days is gone right now...Until that comes back, expect more almost wins against good teams.
I don't mean to come down too hard on Murray, because without his running ability, we would have had virtually no offense the last season and a half. And he actually threw the ball fairly well for the most part in the 2nd half. But he is just so inconsistent. And he's been the starter for a full season now, since he took over midway through last season. I'm not sure how much longer we can continue to blame his inconsistent passing and sometimes poor decision making on youth and experience. At some point, a player either gets it or he doesn't. Lulay and McGhee got it right from day one. Now I realize that QB's like those two don't come along every day, and you can't expect everyone to mature into the job almost immediately the way they did. I also realize that both of them would struggle with accuracy from time to time, and McGhee especially would sometimes go through periods where he was turnover prone. Neither of them were perfect QB's, but we weren't still blaming their occasional poor play on youth and inexperience, after they had a full year as the starter under their belt. Plus with them it was occasional....you can't say it's just occasional with Murray. It's just so frustrating because when he makes a play like that 54 yard TD run against EWU, it makes you forget all about his 1 for 9 passing in the 1st half. But the fact remains that we will never be a legitimate BSC title/playoff contender, as long as our passing offense struggles so badly so often. In 2 of our last 3 wins, we've completed only 2 passes. That's just not a recipe for consistent, long term success.
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Re: Difference between MSU and EWU

Post by TomCat88 » Mon Oct 16, 2017 5:12 pm

MSU loses focus at key moments. They're football's version of that guy who always spills coffee on his shirt. He's got it from the table right up to his mouth, but gets caught off guard because it's a little hotter than expected. Just isn't paying close enough attention all the way through the maneuver.


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Re: Difference between MSU and EWU

Post by talon38 » Thu Oct 19, 2017 8:15 am

Hmm, with QB MURRAY, I just don’t see it yet. He can throw a screen and a 50/50 long ball and break a run for a TD, but as a FCS QB??." I know you get better every day, but Terrell Pryor eventually became a WR, just saying.



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Re: Difference between MSU and EWU

Post by iaafan » Thu Oct 19, 2017 8:27 am

Talon. I'm not sure I understand what you're trying to say.



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Re: Difference between MSU and EWU

Post by Buckaroo Bonzi » Thu Oct 19, 2017 8:58 am

TomCat88 wrote:MSU loses focus at key moments. They're football's version of that guy who always spills coffee on his shirt. He's got it from the table right up to his mouth, but gets caught off guard because it's a little hotter than expected. Just isn't paying close enough attention all the way through the maneuver.
Maybe they are a little bit like me. When I'm alone with my own mind , I'm out numbered.


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Re: Difference between MSU and EWU

Post by Lovethecats75 » Thu Oct 19, 2017 10:01 am

Tha current difference between EW and MSU can be summed up in these two words. Baldwin, Ash.

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