MSU Toddler/Griznationalist argue over UM FB Budget & enrollment

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MSU Toddler
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MSU Toddler/Griznationalist argue over UM FB Budget & enrollment

Post by MSU Toddler » Sun Oct 16, 2016 2:56 pm

Catastrophy11 wrote:
catfisherman wrote:I am a Bobcat fan and there is no other team I would root for. Win or lose I am a cat fan the cats have had rougher years than this. It is a dissapointing season but the cats are my team and I will always root for them.
+1

My only fear is how long will the current Streak run before the Cat's can actually challenge the Griz again?
Aside from how many accounts that the ultra obsessed Bear axe opens on BN after continuing to be booted, the real question is how low does UM's enrollment decline to before the school has issues with the millions thrown into a football program (more than any FCS school in the nation) that fails to win it all? You'd expect that when that is all your school has going for you, you'd do better than they have. What a disappointment...


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Re: There is no other team I would rather root for

Post by CatsNoMatterWhat » Sun Oct 16, 2016 3:00 pm

MSU Toddler wrote:
Catastrophy11 wrote:
catfisherman wrote:I am a Bobcat fan and there is no other team I would root for. Win or lose I am a cat fan the cats have had rougher years than this. It is a dissapointing season but the cats are my team and I will always root for them.
+1

My only fear is how long will the current Streak run before the Cat's can actually challenge the Griz again?
Aside from how many accounts that the ultra obsessed Bear axe opens on BN after continuing to be booted, the real question is how low does UM's enrollment decline to before the school has issues with the millions thrown into a football program (more than any FCS school in the nation) that fails to win it all? You'd expect that when that is all your school has going for you, you'd do better than they have. What a disappointment...
Mathematically, if they fall below 10,000 students they will begin having a hard time meeting their obligations. The football program likely won't suffer all that much even then--Denny Washington essentially funds that operation when required--but they will have trouble getting recruits to attend a failing school.



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Re: There is no other team I would rather root for

Post by Griznationalist » Sun Oct 16, 2016 3:10 pm

MSU Toddler wrote:
Catastrophy11 wrote:
catfisherman wrote:I am a Bobcat fan and there is no other team I would root for. Win or lose I am a cat fan the cats have had rougher years than this. It is a dissapointing season but the cats are my team and I will always root for them.
+1

My only fear is how long will the current Streak run before the Cat's can actually challenge the Griz again?
Aside from how many accounts that the ultra obsessed Bear axe opens on BN after continuing to be booted, the real question is how low does UM's enrollment decline to before the school has issues with the millions thrown into a football program (more than any FCS school in the nation) that fails to win it all? You'd expect that when that is all your school has going for you, you'd do better than they have. What a disappointment...
Actually, MSU's university funding (e.g., not counting ticket sales and other football-generated revenue) exceeds UM's university funding of football.



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Re: There is no other team I would rather root for

Post by MSU Toddler » Sun Oct 16, 2016 3:13 pm

Griznationalist wrote:
MSU Toddler wrote:
Catastrophy11 wrote:
catfisherman wrote:I am a Bobcat fan and there is no other team I would root for. Win or lose I am a cat fan the cats have had rougher years than this. It is a dissapointing season but the cats are my team and I will always root for them.
+1

My only fear is how long will the current Streak run before the Cat's can actually challenge the Griz again?
Aside from how many accounts that the ultra obsessed Bear axe opens on BN after continuing to be booted, the real question is how low does UM's enrollment decline to before the school has issues with the millions thrown into a football program (more than any FCS school in the nation) that fails to win it all? You'd expect that when that is all your school has going for you, you'd do better than they have. What a disappointment...
Actually, MSU's university funding (e.g., not counting ticket sales and other football-generated revenue) exceeds UM's university funding of football.
So ticket sales and football generated revenues aren't going to UM's football program? Read what I said carefully... you actually verified my post.


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Re: There is no other team I would rather root for

Post by Griznationalist » Sun Oct 16, 2016 3:18 pm

Southern Utah's enrollment is only 7,600 and I don't see the Cats beating them. Cats haven't beaten a school with over 6,000 students (WOU). Bryant has 3,600. What's your evidence of declining attendance, ticket sales, or licensing revenue in Missoula?



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Re: There is no other team I would rather root for

Post by MSU Toddler » Sun Oct 16, 2016 3:26 pm

Griznationalist wrote:Southern Utah's enrollment is only 7,600 and I don't see the Cats beating them. Cats haven't beaten a school with over 6,000 students (WOU). Bryant has 3,600. What's your evidence of declining attendance, ticket sales, or licensing revenue in Missoula?
Where did I say "attendance"? Please read my original post slowly and look for the words "declining enrollment". <Insert comment here about educational value of UM degree.>


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Re: There is no other team I would rather root for

Post by Griznationalist » Sun Oct 16, 2016 3:43 pm

MSU Toddler wrote:
Griznationalist wrote:Southern Utah's enrollment is only 7,600 and I don't see the Cats beating them. Cats haven't beaten a school with over 6,000 students (WOU). Bryant has 3,600. What's your evidence of declining attendance, ticket sales, or licensing revenue in Missoula?
Where did I say "attendance"? Please read my original post slowly and look for the words "declining enrollment". <Insert comment here about educational value of UM degree.>
Explain your correlation of football revenue to student enrollment? Are you saying Montana's football revenue and attendance has tracked with enrollment? Because it hasn't. Student section has not grown with stadium capacity, and last stadium expansion predates last enrollment growth era. Agree? If not, teach us?



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Re: There is no other team I would rather root for

Post by MSU Toddler » Sun Oct 16, 2016 4:21 pm

Griznationalist wrote:
MSU Toddler wrote:
Griznationalist wrote:Southern Utah's enrollment is only 7,600 and I don't see the Cats beating them. Cats haven't beaten a school with over 6,000 students (WOU). Bryant has 3,600. What's your evidence of declining attendance, ticket sales, or licensing revenue in Missoula?
Where did I say "attendance"? Please read my original post slowly and look for the words "declining enrollment". <Insert comment here about educational value of UM degree.>
Explain your correlation of football revenue to student enrollment? Are you saying Montana's football revenue and attendance has tracked with enrollment? Because it hasn't. Student section has not grown with stadium capacity, and last stadium expansion predates last enrollment growth era. Agree? If not, teach us?
How can I teach someone reading comprehension?

One of UM's institutional strategies going clear back to the 1990s has been to become a football powerhouse in the FCS. UM has put its money where its mouth is on this strategy being one of the top in the nation in the FCS investing in its football program. However, UM has not won a national championship since 2001. At the same time, enrollment at UM has seen a record decline because even 17 and 18 year old students understand that UM does not offer educational and career opportunities that are competitive - not even close to those at MSU.

Now reread my post: "How low does UM's enrollment decline to before the school has issues with the millions thrown into a football program (more than any FCS school in the nation) that fails to win it all? You'd expect that when that is all your school has going for you, you'd do better than they have. What a disappointment..."


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Re: There is no other team I would rather root for

Post by Griznationalist » Sun Oct 16, 2016 4:41 pm

MSU Toddler wrote:
Griznationalist wrote:
MSU Toddler wrote:
Griznationalist wrote:Southern Utah's enrollment is only 7,600 and I don't see the Cats beating them. Cats haven't beaten a school with over 6,000 students (WOU). Bryant has 3,600. What's your evidence of declining attendance, ticket sales, or licensing revenue in Missoula?
Where did I say "attendance"? Please read my original post slowly and look for the words "declining enrollment". <Insert comment here about educational value of UM degree.>
Explain your correlation of football revenue to student enrollment? Are you saying Montana's football revenue and attendance has tracked with enrollment? Because it hasn't. Student section has not grown with stadium capacity, and last stadium expansion predates last enrollment growth era. Agree? If not, teach us?
How can I teach someone reading comprehension?

One of UM's institutional strategies going clear back to the 1990s has been to become a football powerhouse in the FCS. UM has put its money where its mouth is on this strategy being one of the top in the nation in the FCS investing in its football program. However, UM has not won a national championship since 2001. At the same time, enrollment at UM has seen a record decline in enrollment because even 17 and 18 year old students understand that UM does not offer educational and career opportunities that are competitive - not even close to those at MSU.

Now reread my post: "How low does UM's enrollment decline to before the school has issues with the millions thrown into a football program (more than any FCS school in the nation) that fails to win it all? You'd expect that when that is all your school has going for you, you'd do better than they have. What a disappointment..."
You don't seem to have the facts behind you. MSU's football budget has been bigger than UM's for quite some time. And UM's football budget is far highest in the FCS. Ticket sales the highest, yes. But that has nothing to do with enrollment.

"The University of Montana is easily the most productive of FCS schools in attracting private funds (ticket sales, donations, corporate sales, etc.) to run its intercollegiate athletics department, yet still requires $7,877,258 (38.98%) of institutional support and student fees to make up its $20,208,369 budget… good for 114 th place on the listing. Montana State has the 100 th highest budget in Division I at $22,572,300 – of which $11,142,900 (49.37%) come from state funding sources allocated by the school or student athletic fees."

http://mobile.dudamobile.com/site/makei ... om%2F#2866



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Re: There is no other team I would rather root for

Post by Griznationalist » Sun Oct 16, 2016 4:42 pm

Should say UM's football budget is far FROM highest in FCS.



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Re: There is no other team I would rather root for

Post by MSU Toddler » Sun Oct 16, 2016 5:04 pm

Griznationalist wrote:
MSU Toddler wrote:
Griznationalist wrote:
MSU Toddler wrote:
Griznationalist wrote:Southern Utah's enrollment is only 7,600 and I don't see the Cats beating them. Cats haven't beaten a school with over 6,000 students (WOU). Bryant has 3,600. What's your evidence of declining attendance, ticket sales, or licensing revenue in Missoula?
Where did I say "attendance"? Please read my original post slowly and look for the words "declining enrollment". <Insert comment here about educational value of UM degree.>
Explain your correlation of football revenue to student enrollment? Are you saying Montana's football revenue and attendance has tracked with enrollment? Because it hasn't. Student section has not grown with stadium capacity, and last stadium expansion predates last enrollment growth era. Agree? If not, teach us?
How can I teach someone reading comprehension?

One of UM's institutional strategies going clear back to the 1990s has been to become a football powerhouse in the FCS. UM has put its money where its mouth is on this strategy being one of the top in the nation in the FCS investing in its football program. However, UM has not won a national championship since 2001. At the same time, enrollment at UM has seen a record decline in enrollment because even 17 and 18 year old students understand that UM does not offer educational and career opportunities that are competitive - not even close to those at MSU.

Now reread my post: "How low does UM's enrollment decline to before the school has issues with the millions thrown into a football program (more than any FCS school in the nation) that fails to win it all? You'd expect that when that is all your school has going for you, you'd do better than they have. What a disappointment..."
You don't seem to have the facts behind you. MSU's football budget has been bigger than UM's for quite some time. And UM's football budget is far highest in the FCS. Ticket sales the highest, yes. But that has nothing to do with enrollment.

"The University of Montana is easily the most productive of FCS schools in attracting private funds (ticket sales, donations, corporate sales, etc.) to run its intercollegiate athletics department, yet still requires $7,877,258 (38.98%) of institutional support and student fees to make up its $20,208,369 budget… good for 114 th place on the listing. Montana State has the 100 th highest budget in Division I at $22,572,300 – of which $11,142,900 (49.37%) come from state funding sources allocated by the school or student athletic fees."

http://mobile.dudamobile.com/site/makei ... om%2F#2866
Good site for overall athletic department income, yet reading comprehension is a consistent issue. I'm talking TOTAL dollars total put into the UM FOOTBALL program which does include all donations and investments (i.e., stadium improvements and new uniforms are not included in the numbers you've provided). Please break that down and and come back to me. I think you'll find that UM still hasn't won a national championship despite all it has spent (failing at its primary strategy) AND enrollment continues to decline at a "university".


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Re: There is no other team I would rather root for

Post by Griznationalist » Sun Oct 16, 2016 5:24 pm

MSU Toddler wrote:
Griznationalist wrote:
MSU Toddler wrote:
Griznationalist wrote:
MSU Toddler wrote:
Griznationalist wrote:Southern Utah's enrollment is only 7,600 and I don't see the Cats beating them. Cats haven't beaten a school with over 6,000 students (WOU). Bryant has 3,600. What's your evidence of declining attendance, ticket sales, or licensing revenue in Missoula?
Where did I say "attendance"? Please read my original post slowly and look for the words "declining enrollment". <Insert comment here about educational value of UM degree.>
Explain your correlation of football revenue to student enrollment? Are you saying Montana's football revenue and attendance has tracked with enrollment? Because it hasn't. Student section has not grown with stadium capacity, and last stadium expansion predates last enrollment growth era. Agree? If not, teach us?
How can I teach someone reading comprehension?

One of UM's institutional strategies going clear back to the 1990s has been to become a football powerhouse in the FCS. UM has put its money where its mouth is on this strategy being one of the top in the nation in the FCS investing in its football program. However, UM has not won a national championship since 2001. At the same time, enrollment at UM has seen a record decline in enrollment because even 17 and 18 year old students understand that UM does not offer educational and career opportunities that are competitive - not even close to those at MSU.

Now reread my post: "How low does UM's enrollment decline to before the school has issues with the millions thrown into a football program (more than any FCS school in the nation) that fails to win it all? You'd expect that when that is all your school has going for you, you'd do better than they have. What a disappointment..."
You don't seem to have the facts behind you. MSU's football budget has been bigger than UM's for quite some time. And UM's football budget is far highest in the FCS. Ticket sales the highest, yes. But that has nothing to do with enrollment.

"The University of Montana is easily the most productive of FCS schools in attracting private funds (ticket sales, donations, corporate sales, etc.) to run its intercollegiate athletics department, yet still requires $7,877,258 (38.98%) of institutional support and student fees to make up its $20,208,369 budget… good for 114 th place on the listing. Montana State has the 100 th highest budget in Division I at $22,572,300 – of which $11,142,900 (49.37%) come from state funding sources allocated by the school or student athletic fees."

http://mobile.dudamobile.com/site/makei ... om%2F#2866
Good site for overall athletic department income, yet reading comprehension is a consistent issue. I'm talking TOTAL dollars total put into the UM FOOTBALL program which does include all donations and investments (i.e., stadium improvements and new uniforms are not included in the numbers you've provided). Please break that down and and come back to me. I think you'll find that UM still hasn't won a national championship despite all it has spent (failing at its primary strategy) AND enrollment continues to decline at a "university".
You can compare total football expenditures here and see your theory (which you purported as fact) evaporate.

https://mus.edu/data/Athletics/2014/default.asp



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Re: There is no other team I would rather root for

Post by MSU Toddler » Sun Oct 16, 2016 5:45 pm

You can compare total football expenditures here and see your theory (which you purported as fact) evaporate.

https://mus.edu/data/Athletics/2014/default.asp
FACT: One of UM's primary goals is to have the best FCS football program, yet it fails to win national championships despite millions pumped into it (including stadium expansions and numbers not included in the data you present).

FACT: UM as an educational institute is circling the drain regarding student enrollment.

End of game.


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Re: There is no other team I would rather root for

Post by Griznationalist » Sun Oct 16, 2016 5:52 pm

MSU Toddler wrote:
You can compare total football expenditures here and see your theory (which you purported as fact) evaporate.

https://mus.edu/data/Athletics/2014/default.asp
FACT: One of UM's primary goals is to have the best FCS football program, yet it fails to win national championships despite millions pumped into it (including stadium expansions and numbers not included in the data you present).

FACT: UM as an educational institute is circling the drain regarding student enrollment.

End of game.
UM and MSU spend the same amount on football but have disparate win/loss records. No established correlation to enrollment.



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Re: There is no other team I would rather root for

Post by Common Cat » Sun Oct 16, 2016 6:04 pm

Griznationalist wrote:
MSU Toddler wrote:
You can compare total football expenditures here and see your theory (which you purported as fact) evaporate.

https://mus.edu/data/Athletics/2014/default.asp
FACT: One of UM's primary goals is to have the best FCS football program, yet it fails to win national championships despite millions pumped into it (including stadium expansions and numbers not included in the data you present).

FACT: UM as an educational institute is circling the drain regarding student enrollment.

End of game.
UM and MSU spend the same amount on football but have disparate win/loss records. No established correlation to enrollment.
Can you back that up?


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Re: There is no other team I would rather root for

Post by Griznationalist » Sun Oct 16, 2016 6:27 pm

Yes. Toddler hypothesized that there is an enrollment correlation but failed to establish any.



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Re: There is no other team I would rather root for

Post by Common Cat » Sun Oct 16, 2016 6:31 pm

Griznationalist wrote:Yes. Toddler hypothesized that there is an enrollment correlation but failed to establish any.
No no - I want numbers. Back it up.


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Re: There is no other team I would rather root for

Post by MSU Toddler » Sun Oct 16, 2016 6:32 pm

Griznationalist wrote:Yes. Toddler hypothesized that there is an enrollment correlation but failed to establish any.
Once again, you fail to read. Nowhere did I hypothesize that there is a correlation between the two. I only "purport" that UM has failed on one of its primary strategies and has failed to complete at a university. Two independent failures (aside from teaching reading comprehension)...


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Re: There is no other team I would rather root for

Post by Griznationalist » Sun Oct 16, 2016 6:44 pm

MSU Toddler wrote:
Griznationalist wrote:Yes. Toddler hypothesized that there is an enrollment correlation but failed to establish any.
Once again, you fail to read. Nowhere did I hypothesize that there is a correlation between the two. I only "purport" that UM has failed on one of its primary strategies and has failed to complete at a university. Two independent failures (aside from teaching reading comprehension)...
"... The real question is how low does UM's enrollment decline to before the school has issues with the millions thrown into a football program (more than any FCS school in the nation) that fails to win it all?"
-- MSU Toddler



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Re: There is no other team I would rather root for

Post by MSU Toddler » Sun Oct 16, 2016 7:15 pm

Griznationalist wrote:
MSU Toddler wrote:
Griznationalist wrote:Yes. Toddler hypothesized that there is an enrollment correlation but failed to establish any.
Once again, you fail to read. Nowhere did I hypothesize that there is a correlation between the two. I only "purport" that UM has failed on one of its primary strategies and has failed to complete at a university. Two independent failures (aside from teaching reading comprehension)...
"... The real question is how low does UM's enrollment decline to before the school has issues with the millions thrown into a football program (more than any FCS school in the nation) that fails to win it all?"
-- MSU Toddler
There WILL be a correlation when budgets are "adjusted" due to failed strategies...

You either get that or you're lying. I suspect I know which it is...


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