Will Holden Mocks You Stupid Montanans!

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Will Holden Mocks You Stupid Montanans!

Post by PapaG » Wed Oct 09, 2013 8:02 pm

Will Holden - Full disclosure: This post was largely inspired -- if not mostly borrowed -- from the now-commented-inundated post on your page, Brad. I dare say this is one of those rare moments when we're both glad we no longer own a 406 area code.
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Holden has exactly 6 followers. Good riddance to this guy who mocks Montana.

Here is Holden's original post:
FOR EVERYONE POSTING NEWS ABOUT THE GOVERNMENT SHUTDOWN: I beg you to consider the source.

I just saw a story suggesting that Obama is directly responsible for closing veteran memorials during this government shutdown. My Facebook friends, please, you are all smarter than this. I respect everyone's frustration that national parks and memorials are closed. But making an attempt to turn the shutdown into a debate about veteran benefits and immigration reform is so ridiculously off topic that it would be laughable if it wasn't so insulting to the intellect of a nation that I believe to be well-educated.

For starters, let us consider the source of the story that Obama is purposefully spurning vets. From what I can tell, it is a story being commonly told on conservative blogs, most of which are basing the report on information leaked from the House Natural Resources Committee, which is chaired by six Republicans and one Democrat. I think if you take a minute to consider those sources objectively, you'd have a hard time arguing that the story is coming from an impartial source.

To take what will surely become a personal diatribe one step further, I think all Americans, regardless of partiality, are in favor of both sides sitting down and negotiating in good faith on the spending-based issues that are actually causing this shutdown -- none of which, by the way, have anything to do with the politically-charged issues of veterans benefits or immigration reform. And frankly, I hope the GOP gets some of the spending cuts on their wish list during a good faith debate on a new budget.

But the debate that is happening right now is not a good faith one entirely because it has its roots in a very politically-charged issue.

Based on the fact that it has even been acknowledged by GOP members of the House, here's the truth about the government shutdown as I understand it: A Republican-controlled legislative branch used a once-routine budget negotiation process to stage a last-ditch effort to force Democrats to abandon Obamacare, a piece of legislation that the conservative masses oppose politically, but could not initially fight, as it was mostly passed when Democrats controlled the House.

With that being the story as I understand it, I urge everyone to take part in this worthwhile debate: Are we going to condone a tactic whereby one of our political parties threatens to do willful harm to our economy in an effort to undermine legislation that was passed when they were not in power? What affect would such a tactic have on the tried and true political process of this country?

In other words, when the day comes that a GOP President is in office and Democrats control the House -- a day that could come to pass in the very near future with the approval ratings of both Obama and the GOP-controlled House plummeting during this shutdown -- would you be okay with this country perpetually being one politically-charged issue away from the next government shutdown?

A brief history lesson to provide a bit of context: The last time the Democrats controlled the House and a Republican controlled the Presidency, Democrats could have rallied in the legislative branch and threatened to not raise the debt limit -- the same tactic the GOP is employing right now -- in exchange for a full rollback of the Bush tax cuts -- a piece of legislation opposed by Democrats as fervently at the GOP opposes Obamacare.

We didn't even consider the tactic as a possibility in the media because of the devastating impact it would have had on our economy. Make no mistake, if Republicans stick to their guns past Oct. 17, not just the U.S. economy, but the global economy as a whole could lose much of what it has gained in the wake of those Bush tax cuts.

I would like to think the GOP would never follow through on such a devastating threat, but when I see conservatives pushing politically-charged news all over Facebook and using it as a grassroots rallying cry to push a politically-charged agenda, I can't help but get the feeling that the GOP might be crazy enough to do just that. At the very least, I get the feeling that this illusion of craziness is one the GOP appears to have no interest in debunking if it means getting their way politically.

And so I pose a final question: Are we going to eternally be in a situation where whichever party cares more about the well-being of our economy is forced to give in to whatever demands the other party has, simply because the other party gives the appearance of being just crazy enough to follow through on threats to do massive harm to everyone?

If the GOP proves successful in utilizing this threat-based tactic, I can't help but think that we'll see more of this in the future -- not only from the GOP, but also from Democrats.

Frankly, I don't think anyone should be rewarded for making threats. Pass the CR, raise the debt limit, and then negotiate in good faith on a long-term budget that could include reasonable cuts to both spending and Obamacare.

That's the way a nation of our supposed intellect is supposed to behave.


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Re: Will Holden Mocks You Stupid Montanans!

Post by PapaG » Wed Oct 09, 2013 8:07 pm

This guy is nuts.
Will Holden I'm still working for FOX31 in Denver, Paul. Though my bosses would likely support me publishing an op-ed like this on our website, I think some of the fine folks who comment on our Facebook page would actually attempt to track me down and murder me for it
What a fricking drama queen.


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Re: Will Holden Mocks You Stupid Montanans!

Post by wbtfg » Wed Oct 09, 2013 8:29 pm

Says the person cutting and pasting from facebook to elicit more drama.

#facepalm



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Re: Will Holden Mocks You Stupid Montanans!

Post by PapaG » Wed Oct 09, 2013 9:14 pm

wbtfg wrote:Says the person cutting and pasting from facebook to elicit more drama.

#facepalm
It's in the Smack section, and Will made his thoughts about Montanans quite evident in his commentary. Isn't the Smack board about drama?

Holden's post about those living in Montana is elitist BS, IMO. He just spit on you all living in Montana.


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Re: Will Holden Mocks You Stupid Montanans!

Post by allcat » Thu Oct 10, 2013 11:53 am

I really don't get the slam. He says rare moments of regret. This thread is fairly hard to follow, so I'm only refering to the post you put in. It sounds to me like he would still love to have a 406 area code.


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Re: Will Holden Mocks You Stupid Montanans!

Post by Will_Holden » Thu Oct 10, 2013 1:13 pm

Apparently Greg was not thrilled with the reception he was receiving on my personal Facebook page. You want a venue change, my friend? Fine. I want a civil debate. The Smack Board might not be the best place for it, but against all odds, I have faith in your civility. You are a Bobcat fan, after all :D

And just because I know you're all dying to hear a little more of The Gospel according to PapaG, below is the a little more of the discussion between Greg and me, as well as the point at which he let it trail off.

I'm still all ears and awaiting your retort, big fella.
Greg Kastelitz · Friends with Brad Bergum
Well written, but full of half-truths and lies. The slam at those living in Montana lessened the impact of any substance, too. I live in Portland, OR, and haven't had a 406 area code since 1997. My mom, who lives in Missoula, has helped with fundraisers for Democratic candidates in Montana, including Brian Schweitzer.

---

Greg Kastelitz · Friends with Brad Bergum
Will, nobody is going to "hunt you down" over your opinion, elementary as it may be. Stick to writing about games.

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Will Holden
Now we've devolved to hurling insults at a stranger, eh Greg? The aim is intelligent discussion here. Care to follow the rest of the productive conversation we've had here and provide evidence about -- or at least identify -- the "half-truths" and/or "lies" you've accused me of spreading? Maybe make an effort to explain how my opinion about the shutdown is "elementary" compared to yours? You called my commentary above "well written." I'd like to pay you a similar compliment about your retort, but due to its overabundance of personal genealogy and lack of evidence to support your claims, I'm afraid I can't do that.

And again folks, I joke about politics in an effort to bring levity to a realm where folks have a tendency to take themselves far too seriously. My barbs about particular demographics are meant to be playful, and not intended to be personal attacks on anyone. Greg, the point about the 406 area code was a jest between friends -- and written on another person's Facebook wall, no less. It wasn't intended for you. Again, Mr. Kastelitz, let's try to circle back to a conversation among intelligent adults here.

Also, for the record, Greg, I've received threats via Facebook that my company deemed credible enough to have a lawyer deal with them. And those threats were associated with an opinion I voiced in a Broncos op-ed. Our political reporter has had to be escorted out of the Colorado state capitol by the governor's security team after simply covering a story about a state representative who said the black community struggles with health issues due to the abundance of fried chicken they eat. Your vitriolic response to this Facebook post only further cements my hesitance in making any of my political views any more public than this.

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Greg Kastelitz · Friends with Brad Bergum
Will, I saw your post because Brad Bergum shared it. I'm sorry your life is in jeopardy, or so you say it is. My primary reason for commenting was about your "406" comment, because I know a lot of independent thinkers who still live in that area code. I'm in Portland, OR, so unfortunately for me, my vote on national issues doesn't matter, whether I agree with the current President, or otherwise.

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Greg Kastelitz · Friends with Brad Bergum
"Make no mistake, if Republicans stick to their guns past Oct. 17, not just the U.S. economy, but the global economy as a whole could lose much of what it has gained in the wake of those Bush tax cuts." - this is just boilerplate fearmongering, Will.

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Greg Kastelitz · Friends with Brad Bergum
"Your vitriolic response to this Facebook post only further cements my hesitance in making any of my political views any more public than this." - I wasn't "vitriolic". I was pointing out inaccuracies in things you wrote, Will. You posted a diatribe that is laughably lacking in fact, and full of opinion and talking points. It is well-written, sure, but the substance is something I'd expect from a Poli 101 student with a liberal professor feeding them lines. Things aren't binary in the real world.

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Andrew Zahn
Well if your last comment wasn't vitriolic then I am not sure what is. Not to mention you are insulting a man for giving his opinion on his own Facebook page through what many have called an op-ed. He isn't claiming to have an end-all solution, nor is he claiming that liberal politicians are undeniably correct in their assertions. He is simply imploring visitors to his personal Facebook page to check their own sources and become educated on topics instead of simplifying their search results in favor of a picture that reads, "Obama hates veterans."

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Will Holden
Okay, Greg, since it appears you're interested in taking us down this road, we might as well embrace it. Allow me to quote Fake Michael Keaton from SNL's Celebrity Jeopardy: When trying to comprehend a word, sometimes it's helpful to break ... it ... down! Let's do that now, shall we?

"Vitriolic," as defined in the Oxford dictionary: "Filled with bitter criticism or malice."

Calling someone's opinions "elementary" and making accusations that a person is spreading "half-truths" and "lies" are, by definition, criticisms. Here's how I know -- "Criticism," as defined in the Oxford dictionary: "The expression of disapproval of someone or something based on perceived faults or mistakes."

You took offense to a joke that wasn't intended for you, and you expressed resentment about my choice to express an opinion on the government shutdown, which is, by definition, a display of bitterness. Here's how I know -- "Bitter," as defined in the Oxford dictionary: "A display of anger, hurt, or resentment because of one's bad experiences or a sense of unjust treatment."

Telling someone to "stick to writing about games" is, by definition, malice. Here's how I know -- "Malice," as defined in the Oxford dictionary: "The intention or desire to spite someone or something."

This is not me spit-balling here, Greg. These are your actual words measuring up to all the requirements put forth in the definition of the English word "vitriolic," as constructed by the creators/keepers of the language. If I knew nothing else about you, Greg, that would be enough for me to feel confident in calling the content in your comments on this post "vitriolic."

But Brad Bergum and I know a little more about you, don't we, Greg?

You see, attempting to redefine a word so that it means what you want it to mean is something I would expect from one of my mom's kindergartners -- or from an adult who posts 45 times on a single post on another adult's Facebook page.

Based on the fact that he let you inundate his page with those aforementioned comments, I'd have to call Brad a more understanding and patient person than me. I'm not going to give you 45 chances to get back on topic, I'm going to give you one.

In your next post, should you choose to write one, I would strongly urge you to provide SPECIFIC EVIDENCE to support YOUR OPINION that the following claim -- "If Republicans stick to their guns past Oct. 17, not just the U.S. economy, but the global economy as a whole could lose much of what it has gained in the wake of the Bush tax cuts." -- is nothing more than "fear mongering." Because simply calling the claim "fear mongering" does not make it so -- not even when you add a tired adjective like "boilerplate." This is especially true when the designation is being thrown around by someone who has displayed a well-documented misunderstanding of the English language.

If you fail to provide such evidence, or if your post contains a hint of an insult, you're attempt to hijack this once-intellectual debate will come to an end. It may be a free country, but the small space of it here on my Facebook page is governed by me. And I reserve the right to reign oppression on anyone who I feel deserves it. But that's the great thing about social media, Greg: We get to see who agrees with us and who doesn't. And call me crazy, but I don't think there are many other participants in this conversation -- liberal or conservative, PhD or finger painter -- who would argue that my threat to oppress you is not at least as warranted as the threat the GOP has issued in the House of Representatives.

---

Dirk Karn
BOOM!

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Emily Engvall
Dirk, I believe the proper term is "Boom. Roasted!"
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Dirk Karn
Emily, I thought about adding the roasted, but I liked the subtle, stand alone "Boom!" I almost (and by almost, I mean I wrote the whole thing and decided it was dumb) quoted Sam Jackson from Pulp Fiction about Will coming down upon people with great vengeance and furious anger, any who attempt to disrupt his peaceful Facebook conversations. And now I have. I rule, though I suspect I may be the only one who feels that way.

---

Joe Porter
Wow. Will, that was some of the better posts and retorts that I have ever read; truly a intellectual argument for sound and reasonable discussion about the difficult topics facing our national electorate over the clamor of vitriol. I really enjoyed the examples of media's editorial choices. I found it topical and relatable, and I felt it helped moved the discussion forward. Trust me when I say I am not one to blow smoke about stuff like this, either.


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Re: Will Holden Mocks You Stupid Montanans!

Post by AlphaGriz1 » Thu Oct 10, 2013 2:43 pm

Image


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Re: Will Holden Mocks You Stupid Montanans!

Post by LongTimeCatFan » Thu Oct 10, 2013 3:38 pm

Will Holden SUCKS!!! We should burn the commie bastard's house down..... Where do we meet with our pitchforks? ;)



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Re: Will Holden Mocks You Stupid Montanans!

Post by GavinDonos » Thu Oct 10, 2013 4:11 pm

I've tried, but I just can't bring myself to give a sh* about what Will and Brad say on Facebook.

Life is too short to get worked up over pseudo-intelligentsia touching peen on social media.

/next thread


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Re: Will Holden Mocks You Stupid Montanans!

Post by BigBruceBaker » Thu Oct 10, 2013 9:33 pm

Soooooo I an waiting patiently to hear PapaG's retort after calling a guy out for no reason. Seems to me that PapaG is full of hypocrisy in how he treats people on this board.


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Re: Will Holden Mocks You Stupid Montanans!

Post by AlphaGriz1 » Fri Oct 11, 2013 8:28 am

Wait a minute here.........are you guys trying to say that PapaG calls people out on message boards and Facebook?

If so, I am not buying that for one second............. :coffee:

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Re: Will Holden Mocks You Stupid Montanans!

Post by allcat » Fri Oct 11, 2013 9:51 am

Ok, now I have decided to hate Will. Just for posting something 12 miles long and boring as hell. I might as well include Papa G for starting this thread.


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Re: Will Holden Mocks You Stupid Montanans!

Post by BigBruceBaker » Fri Oct 11, 2013 11:06 am

PapaG wrote:
rtb wrote:
PapaG wrote:
Htowngriz wrote:
Counts had 80 yards rushing yesterday. Again, moron.
Is it asking too much to stop with the ad hominen personal attacks?
Thanks Papa G! Spending my one day at home in a while with the fam. Htown, keep the personal insults off the board. It's cool to debate and disagree, but calling people morons and crap is juvenile and not tolerated. If I see it keep up you're gone.


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Hope you're enjoying a sunny day in Bend! Arguing is what makes message boards largely fun, but personal attacks lead to a cesspool of a website. Tolerate enough of them, and you have eGriz! :D
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Re: Will Holden Mocks You Stupid Montanans!

Post by LongTimeCatFan » Fri Oct 11, 2013 11:42 am

BigBruceBaker wrote:
PapaG wrote:
rtb wrote:
PapaG wrote:
Htowngriz wrote:
Counts had 80 yards rushing yesterday. Again, moron.
Is it asking too much to stop with the ad hominen personal attacks?
Thanks Papa G! Spending my one day at home in a while with the fam. Htown, keep the personal insults off the board. It's cool to debate and disagree, but calling people morons and crap is juvenile and not tolerated. If I see it keep up you're gone.


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Hope you're enjoying a sunny day in Bend! Arguing is what makes message boards largely fun, but personal attacks lead to a cesspool of a website. Tolerate enough of them, and you have eGriz! :D
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Re: Will Holden Mocks You Stupid Montanans!

Post by cats2506 » Sat Oct 12, 2013 8:10 pm

WTF, I'm always up for a good witch hunt but I cant seem to find the reason for the outrage


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Re: Will Holden Mocks You Stupid Montanans!

Post by wbtfg » Tue Oct 15, 2013 9:56 am

I had really high hopes for this thread....what happened?



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Re: Will Holden Mocks You Stupid Montanans!

Post by allcat » Tue Oct 15, 2013 10:57 am

bogus premise


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Re: Will Holden Mocks You Stupid Montanans!

Post by wbtfg » Tue Oct 15, 2013 11:38 am

allcat wrote:bogus premise
That's usually how all the truly epic threads begin....



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Re: Will Holden Mocks You Stupid Montanans!

Post by AlphaGriz1 » Tue Oct 15, 2013 7:12 pm

Agree. If this was on eGriz this would have been epic and totally classless


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Re: Will Holden Mocks You Stupid Montanans!

Post by PapaG » Tue Oct 15, 2013 7:34 pm

My brain was a part of the federal shutdown last week.


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