New NFL Rule

[Mr Lisle]

The NFL has adopted new rules. The placement of the ball for PAT kicks will be moved back to the 15 yard line. The actual kick will go from about 21 to 33 yards. The ball will not be moved back for two point attempts. Also, the defense will now pick up two points for returning a PAT for a "touchdown".
Personally, I'd like to see some adjustment in other sports, like the basketball rim going up to 12 feet and the pitchers mound taken back up from 10 to 15 inches (as it was pre-1969).

[allcat]

The NFL has adopted new rules. The placement of the ball for PAT kicks will be moved back to the 15 yard line. The actual kick will go from about 21 to 33 yards. The ball will not be moved back for two point attempts. Also, the defense will now pick up two points for returning a PAT for a "touchdown".
Personally, I'd like to see some adjustment in other sports, like the basketball rim going up to 12 feet and the pitchers mound taken back up from 10 to 15 inches (as it was pre-1969).

Everybody likes scoring. Baseball got a lot of home runs out of dropping the mound.

[Mr Lisle]

The NFL has adopted new rules. The placement of the ball for PAT kicks will be moved back to the 15 yard line. The actual kick will go from about 21 to 33 yards. The ball will not be moved back for two point attempts. Also, the defense will now pick up two points for returning a PAT for a "touchdown".
Personally, I'd like to see some adjustment in other sports, like the basketball rim going up to 12 feet and the pitchers mound taken back up from 10 to 15 inches (as it was pre-1969).

Everybody likes scoring. Baseball got a lot of home runs out of dropping the mound.

Baseball is one of the very few sports where the defense has the ball...which changes everything. I don't like scoring. For me a well played game is loaded with drama. Inning after inning players all over the bases only to be cut down by a double play, strike out of the heavy hitter or a great defensive play on a long line drive...nobody crosses the plate! It all starts with the pitcher, who now stands on a lowered mound (look at home run and ERA stats since that happened) dressed in only his uniform and an A-2000, 60' 6" from his target and looking at some palooka wearing a hard hat with protective ear flaps, batting gloves, pads on his forearm, elbow, shin and a 42 ounce bat with a sticky substance to improve his grip. Finally, and also in 1969, to "improve the game" they moved the stike zone from between the batters armpits and his knees to somewhere mid chest and somewhere else in the approximate area of the mid thigh. I want that guy OUT!

[77matcat]

I'm for the NFL changes. I'd move the pat back fifteen more yards. Makes the two point play more of an option if there is some risk of not converting the one point play.

Think these changes will find their way to the NCAA next year???

Also believe the basket ought to be moved up. I could be talked into 11'. How many folks do you think would be able to dunk at 12'.




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[91catAlum]

What happens when a team is attempting an extra point from the 15 yard line, and the holder fumbles the hold and has to pick it up and run. Is it a dead play? Does he need to go the whole 15 yards to convert?

[77matcat]

Good ? Maybe two points from the 15.


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[Mr Lisle]

What happens when a team is attempting an extra point from the 15 yard line, and the holder fumbles the hold and has to pick it up and run. Is it a dead play? Does he need to go the whole 15 yards to convert?

Good question. What I found says a team can fake a field goal and run or pass from the 15 instead and get the two points. It also says if it is a broken play and the offense scores other than by kicking, they get two points. Also, they can change their mind. For instance, if the defense gets penalized on the attempt, the offense is not obligated to duplicate the previous attempt. I found 99% of the EP's kicks were successful last year and 94% of kicks from 30 yards were successful. 47.5% of two point conversions were successful last year. When the ball was moved to the 1 yard line due to a D-penalty, success went up to 57.5%.

[77matcat]

Good information. Thanks

Doesn't really decrease odds much if you go to the 30. Maybe bumping the play from 2 points to 3 or 4 would be interesting.



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[SonomaCat]

Hate the idea of moving the basket higher -- that would really skew everything about the game. Dunking isn't exactly a "problem" that needs to be rectified. Even in the NBA (outside of all star games), it is very difficult to get a dunk in the course of a game (which is why a relatively low % of points in a typical game come from dunks). The other guys are tall and athletic on defense and prevent guys from getting to the rim.

Moving the basket higher would just make shooting far harder -- guys in a position to dunk would still have an almost guaranteed bucket on a higher rim ... they would simply be more likely to execute the ol' one foot bank shot off the backboard as opposed to dunking. I guess it would essentially make the men's game look a bit more like the women's game, for those who are into that sort of thing.

[ilovethecats]

Hate the idea of moving the basket higher -- that would really skew everything about the game. Dunking isn't exactly a "problem" that needs to be rectified. Even in the NBA (outside of all star games), it is very difficult to get a dunk in the course of a game (which is why a relatively low % of points in a typical game come from dunks). The other guys are tall and athletic on defense and prevent guys from getting to the rim.

Moving the basket higher would just make shooting far harder -- guys in a position to dunk would still have an almost guaranteed bucket on a higher rim ... they would simply be more likely to execute the ol' one foot bank shot off the backboard as opposed to dunking. I guess it would essentially make the men's game look a bit more like the women's game, for those who are into that sort of thing.

couldn't agree more. never understood the basis of wanting a higher rim. like the game is getting too easy or something?! I saw the best player in the world start off 0-10 yesterday before getting it going. 10 feet seems to be working just fine.

[LTown Cat]

Hate the idea of moving the basket higher -- that would really skew everything about the game. Dunking isn't exactly a "problem" that needs to be rectified. Even in the NBA (outside of all star games), it is very difficult to get a dunk in the course of a game (which is why a relatively low % of points in a typical game come from dunks). The other guys are tall and athletic on defense and prevent guys from getting to the rim.

Moving the basket higher would just make shooting far harder -- guys in a position to dunk would still have an almost guaranteed bucket on a higher rim ... they would simply be more likely to execute the ol' one foot bank shot off the backboard as opposed to dunking. I guess it would essentially make the men's game look a bit more like the women's game, for those who are into that sort of thing.

Where the hell is the like button?

[Mr Lisle]

Bill Russell said if they want to make the game more fair for the shorter guy they should lower the rim.

When asked about raising the rim John Wooden, who had absolute distain for the slam dunk said, "I'd like to see it tried. Don't know how much they should raise it, but I think elevating the rims would be better than they are today". Dean Smith was also a proponent. Wooden also speculated that if the rim remained at 10', maybe the offensive rebounds could be taken back beyond the free throw circle, like half-court B-ball. When James Naismith invented the game the average male height was 5'6". The game was played by "average guys". Today the average height of an NBA player is 6 '7.62 inches. During the 2014-15 season just the top 10 NBA dunk leaders combined for 1,233 dunks...very exciting I suppose . If we want to maintain the integrity of the game maybe we start by going back to the jump ball after every basket.

[SonomaCat]

Today the average height of an NBA player is 6 '7.62 inches. During the 2014-15 season just the top 10 NBA dunk leaders combined for 1,233 dunks...very exciting I suppose

So you're saying that the Top 10 dunkers in the NBA average 1.5 dunks (3 points) per game. I'm not seeing the problem.

[Mr Lisle]

Today the average height of an NBA player is 6 '7.62 inches. During the 2014-15 season just the top 10 NBA dunk leaders combined for 1,233 dunks...very exciting I suppose

So you're saying that the Top 10 dunkers in the NBA average 1.5 dunks (3 points) per game. I'm not seeing the problem.

This is getting silly, but as long as you want to draw down.....on a typical NBA night there are 14 games with 10 guys on the floor, half standing at least 6.7.62, all of who are capable of stuffing the ball given the opportunity. That's 70 dunkers on the floor! Given the state of NBA defenses the opportunity seems constant.

[SonomaCat]

Today the average height of an NBA player is 6 '7.62 inches. During the 2014-15 season just the top 10 NBA dunk leaders combined for 1,233 dunks...very exciting I suppose

So you're saying that the Top 10 dunkers in the NBA average 1.5 dunks (3 points) per game. I'm not seeing the problem.

This is getting silly, but as long as you want to draw down.....on a typical NBA night there are 14 games with 10 guys on the floor, half standing at least 6.7.62, all of who are capable of stuffing the ball given the opportunity. That's 70 dunkers on the floor! Given the state of NBA defenses the opportunity seems constant.

Sure, there's the opportunity to dunk if nobody plays defense. There's also an opportunity to make a layup for those who can't dunk (an almost equally high percentage shot) if nobody plays defense. The point is that despite the fact that most of these guys CAN dunk, a VERY SMALL % of the points scored during an NBA game come from dunks. Why? Because these guys play very good defense that precludes guys from getting dunks. That's what makes the game fun to watch -- very talented offensive players playing against very talented defensive players.

Dunking is not a problem that needs to be solved in the NBA or at any level of basketball. Getting a dunk in a game, at any level, is very difficult -- that's why it's often exciting when it does happen. If these guys were dunking every trip down the floor, that would be something else entirely (and it would be boring), but that's not what happens.

Along those same lines, if given wide open looks at 3 pointers, many NBA players would be able to make an insanely high % of those as well. But given the high level of defense in the NBA, it's really rare for a guy to get a totally uncontested look at a 3 pointer. So even though they have the ability to make the 3 point line seem too short (if we are basing it on watching them shoot in warm ups), the fact that smothering defense is a part of the game makes the 3 point line perfectly reasonable as well.

[Mr Lisle]

Defenses' throughout the NBA are not the same. Some are very tough, some are ugly. More than half gave up an average of more than 100 points per game 2014-15. Not that tough to get a good look at a three.
The slam dunk is an ongoing offense objective on nearly every possession. They clear out and let things go one-on-one, or get it to the big man inside who tries to bull his way to the slammer. The guys 6'11 plus don't even need to jump...many can't. The defenses are now resorting to packing inside and playing smash mouth. But, there's no denying people must like it. Attendance records prove that out. But I'm not watching. Maybe I should contact the NBA and let them know if they want me back they can keep the rim at 10', but reduce the slammer point to one. That's the ticket.

[SonomaCat]

How many NBA games have you watched in the last couple years? What you are describing seems to be more of how the game was played in a bygone era. It's not really a clear out or post up league anymore -- far more of a ball rotation and jump shooting game these days.

Not that there is anything at all wrong with this, but it's been a long time since I've heard anyone use the term "slam dunk" or "stuffing" in a basketball context.

And yes, getting a dunk is, indeed, the goal of nearly every offensive possession. If one gets in a position to dunk, that means they have beat the defense and put themselves into a position for a very high percentage shot -- that's the ultimate objective of the offense of any basketball team at any level with players of any height. But seeing as how under 5% of all offensive possessions in the NBA result in a dunk, that's simply more evidence that the defenses in the NBA are quite effective at preventing those incredibly, incredibly talented offensive players from being in a position to attempt those high percentage shots.

[Mr Lisle]

How many NBA games have you watched in the last couple years? What you are describing seems to be more of how the game was played in a bygone era. It's not really a clear out or post up league anymore -- far more of a ball rotation and jump shooting game these days.

Not that there is anything at all wrong with this, but it's been a long time since I've heard anyone use the term "slam dunk" or "stuffing" in a basketball context.

And yes, getting a dunk is, indeed, the goal of nearly every offensive possession. If one gets in a position to dunk, that means they have beat the defense and put themselves into a position for a very high percentage shot -- that's the ultimate objective of the offense of any basketball team at any level with players of any height. But seeing as how under 5% of all offensive possessions in the NBA result in a dunk, that's simply more evidence that the defenses in the NBA are quite effective at preventing those incredibly, incredibly talented offensive players from being in a position to attempt those high percentage shots.

The last complete NBA game I watched was probably 3 or 4 years ago. Two of the top players back then were LaBron James and Kobi Bryant. Assuming they are around now. Now and then I see "HIGHlights" when watching sports news. Based on your descriptions I figured maybe the game had changed, so I did a little research on todays defense tactics based on your comments regarding the high level of NBA defensive play. There I found a current description indicating defenses are collapsing inside (a sort of morphed zone) to shut down the offenses' attacking style.
Yes, I say "Slam Dunk", just like the old days....seems to me while you are minimizing the impact of the move, the Slam Dunk contest lives on...held in Brooklyn in 2015 and known as... The Slam Dunk Contest. Here's a shot that is performed as a Double Pump, Tomahawk, Baseline, Windmill, Under the Leg, Elbow Hang and Alley OOP. In the actual game the dunks I see are most often not the result of an incredibly talented offensive player beating a talented defensive player. It's a breakway where the offensive player is past the defense and, all by himself. hammers the ball home. Or, it's a rebound off the offensive board slammed back down from high above the 10' rim by the rebounder who either momentairly hangs from the rim (showtime), or gets banged in the head by the ball. Seems you think that equals "talent", I disagree.

[msu_agfan]

What are your thoughts on increasing the b-ball court size? It seems to me that the players are so large, and fast, that there is a lot of congestion when the action is in the half court offense. Come off a pick at the 3 pt line and it is two steps (plus one or two after dribbling stops) and they are at the rim. Any way of widening the court a few feet? Just for curiosity sakes. I liked reading the other earlier posts on basket height.

[ilovethecats]

And yes, getting a dunk is, indeed, the goal of nearly every offensive possession. If one gets in a position to dunk, that means they have beat the defense and put themselves into a position for a very high percentage shot

in related news, it seems to me all those damn football players are just trying to get the stupid ball in the endzone...

I think football fields should be 200 yards.